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12:11 AM
@El'endiaStarman I'd be happy to host. I don't know if that would be much better, but we can try.
We should go with the same map prolly
 
How can we go about doing that? I host, you join and download the map, then save it and host from it?
 
Yep. Should only take a matter of minutes
 
I can't right now
maybe in an hour or so
 
Note to self: bedtime is midnight, not 4am.
 
I can't right now either, so that's fine.
Probably around 7 MST? Give or take
 
12:16 AM
yeah
 
21:00 EST?
 
yeah, it appears so
So, bed time is 12 MST, which is 4 AM EST
sounds about right
 
Woah hey don't you curse me!
 
@NathanMerrill EST == MST +2, not MST +4
 
12:52 AM
oh lol
I did mental math of 21-7
which is clearly 4
two mistakes make 1 right?
 
No, 21 + 7 = 28 = 4 mod 24.
 
oh, right, because its 4AM, which is past midnight
 
1:31 AM
I think I might be more like 7:30
 
2:29 AM
I'm on. While waiting, I decided to take a look at the longest-running game on the public games. The download size is 50 MB
 
@NathanMerrill Jeez, that must be a massive map.
 
How does multiplayer Factorio work? Do you get separate plots or something?
 
Simultaneous player characters in the same world. Everything is shared except personal inventory.
 
public games are probably hell then
 
you can actually set permissions
so, on the map I'm currently on, the only permission I have is walk
 
2:39 AM
Okay, so my answer was slightly wrong. Listen to the guy that has played a LOT more Factorio than I have. :P
(357 hours [him] vs 22 hours [me]. Wowza.)
 
@El'endiaStarman so, funnily, the map isn't super tall (maybe 10K tiles tall). But they made it infinitely wide, so they have this giant strip of a map with a gigantic solar array to the east (with labs) and all of the processing to the west
 
More solar power in the east!
 
glad to see factorio is encouraging clean energy use :P
I suppose Minecraft has geothermal energy from lava
 
yeah, when you get into mega factories, you have to start to care about UPS (updates per second)
and solar beats every other form of energy in terms of UPS
 
Definitely not clean at first. My fiancée is in the field of environmental science, so we've had a few discussions on the environmental and social impacts of certain actions. Like, in the multiplayer map I hosted a few days ago, I built a train in order to transport water, but I was originally planning on building a really long pipe. She was like "So you're gonna build a pipe through peoples' towns, and it's probably gonna leak, etc..."
She did raise a really good point that the game just does not have at present: waste management.
 
2:51 AM
@NathanMerrill so that's like the time component of power?
 
yeah. if you get in the world of modding, some of the popular mods (specifically Angels) that have byproducts you don't want (at least at the moment)
@quartata lol yeah
 
@El'endiaStarman the only thing I know that does that is minefactory reloaded iirc
 
Yeah. Building factories: fun. Waste management: unfun.
 
I'm back
Sorry for the delay
@El'endiaStarman Still want me to host?
 
@DJMcMayhem Either you or Nathan.
 
2:54 AM
@El'endiaStarman yeah, in the mod there give you a couple of solutions (depending on what you are dealing with). One is a "void" that just consumes the product, the second is that they allow you to refine it into more usable material. (The final solution being to put it into boxes)
but only the second is "fun", but is the least realistic
I can host, but I'm not sure if my internet can handle it
 
@NathanMerrill What's your internet speed?
 
I can host, of course. Just wanted to give you guys a chance to not have laggy gameplay.
 
hello
can i get in on this?
 
In that case, I'll host
@DestructibleLemon Sure! I'm still setting up, but I'll ping everyone interested once I'm ready
 
2:59 AM
alright!
 
@DestructibleLemon @NathanMerrill @El'endiaStarman @Mego Hosting now! Server is called "PPCG-Gaming", password is "golf"
 
bah, can't find it
 
That's a better password than the one I picked. :P
 
what's your version?
its in the top left of the window bar
 
I'm on 0.15.40 and I just joined.
 
3:01 AM
you all updated
bah
 
Yeah. Just today.
 
3:55 AM
hey, I can't connect. Is it just me?
 
Anonymous
Trying now
 
@NathanMerrill I'm fine. I'm not sure what's up with you
El is still here too
 
hmmm...it feels like my internet just got way slower
 
I can see you're having issues though
Everytime you connect, it drops you again :/
 
Yeah. Harsh that you're downloading the map and being dropped in the process...
 
3:58 AM
yeah
 
Anonymous
4:18 AM
I got dropped too :(
 
@Mego Clearly my internet isn't working great
Would you rather host?
 
Anonymous
Not sure that mine would be much better, but I can give it a shot
 
Anonymous
Hosted. Same server name, password isHosting. Server name "PPCG Gaming", password "penguin"
 
I'm done for now I think
 
4:30 AM
ok. The lag is getting pretty bad. It must be the evening :P
it was fun all :P
 
Anonymous
Agreed, it was fun
 
Anonymous
I'm gonna go play on a ribbon world for funsies
 
how tall?
 
Anonymous
100
 
Anonymous
4:47 AM
I have seen hell:
 
Anonymous
 
Oh gosh
Where's the coal?
 
Anonymous
Exactly
 
Anonymous
Also the first 3 hours would be spent trying to get enough landfill to fill in that lake
 
but...
Where's the stone?
 
Anonymous
4:50 AM
Tiny patch on the south side of the lake
 
Can't just relocate somewhere far to the side?
 
Anonymous
@El'endiaStarman Biters
 
Anonymous
The map I went with:
 
Anonymous
 
Oooooh snap, yeah...
 
Anonymous
4:56 AM
No stone patches in the initial area here either, but there are stone rocks
 
Anonymous
I can just micromanage until I push out
 
Anonymous
It's way less complicated than micromanaging handcrafts :P
 
Anonymous
5:59 AM
Red science automated: i.imgur.com/ZavpdP3.jpg
 
Anonymous
6:38 AM
Finally found a stone patch: i.imgur.com/K8IWAP7.png :(
 
3:42 PM
For those of you that don't follow factorio development, they showed us a prototype of something I'm super excited for: cliffs
also, if you have time to kill (which you shouldn't if you are properly addicted), the factorio blog is really fascinating (especially the optimization ones).
 
I read the blog post about cliffs yesterday. Very interesting stuff. I love game dev blog posts about stuff like that.
 
4:00 PM
That is really fascinating. I'm glad they're actively developing it
I can't wait for 0.16
 
This is the one I found the most interesting
it says its for .15, but its actually coming out for .16
 
4:12 PM
@NathanMerrill Oh, I remember reading that. o.O
 
4:31 PM
I think playing multiplayer with all of you made me realize just exactly how bad at the game I am
 
@DJMcMayhem You have 36 hours on record. I have 22. We're in the same boat. :P
 
Holy crap, I already have 36? o_O
Time flies in that game
 
It sure does. It's very good at inducing and maintaining a flow state.
 
here's the thing: I don't think people ever get "better" at factorio. There's small things (like getting better at thinking about layouts), but most "experienced" players simply build at a larger scale from the start
like, once I have electricity, I do a full-blown iron setup, instead of doing a couple of electrical miners. Or I build 5 assemblers to do red science instead of just 1
 
That's precisely it though. With more experience, you can anticipate what you will need further in advance. Me? I'm figuring stuff out as I go along, so I can't think much bigger than the minimum.
 
4:38 PM
Sounds about right. I also make the minimum because I want to guarantee it works first
 
yeah. I could see how that could make a difference. Like, I could see a player thinking that they should automate a couple hundred turrets
:P
 
Hey, if you've got the resources for it...
 
eventually, I strongly recommend the speed run achievement and the no-hand-craft acheivement
the first really teaches you how to scale, and the latter really teaches you the craft tree.
 
Yeah, I'll look into taking those on after I launch a rocket on my own.
 
@NathanMerrill How fast do you have to do it for the speed run achievement?
 
4:49 PM
there are two of them: One for 15 hours, the second for 8 hours
I've done the 8 hour one on .14, but not on .15 (mostly due to boredom)
I really struggle getting beyond blue science. I usually just want to restart and do the early game again
 
I could see that. That one youtube reviewer you shared said that the endgame is super grindy. I've never personally experienced it (Cause I've never gotten there) but it makes sense
Hey @Riker o/
 
o/
hm, I should really get factorio
 
2 days ago, by Mego
Factorio is great unless you have other things you're supposed to do, like eat or breathe
 
@DJMcMayhem it depends on what you want. I really like the organization and layout problems. Endgame is very much about scaling
 
@DJMcMayhem I have schoolwork :(
I'm not free until the 11th
then I'm busy w/ birthday things
 
5:03 PM
Oh that's right, your bday is around then
 
can you eli5 the game?
 
you craft a few items by hand. Those items will craft items automatically for you
you start building a factory that does amazing things automatically for you
 
so it's like clicker games with thought put into them
I'll definitely wait til the steam sale to get it though
 
It doesn't tend to go on sale I think
 
it won't go on sale
 
5:04 PM
oh, huh
then I might not
 
There's definitely a strong correlation with clicker games, but there's a lot more depth
 
I have so many things I want for the sale though >_> and only like $50
 
instead of making a single number get really high, you want different types of numbers
oh, and a 2D grid to give you layout management problems
 
@NathanMerrill it's not infinite?
 
and none of that "the next building costs more"
 
5:06 PM
or do things have a limited distance to feed inputs into the next machine
 
yeah, the world is infinite, but you have to transport materials if your machines are too far apart
 
ah
how do you transport? conveyor belts?
 
that's one of the ways
you also have trains, flying robots, and mechanical hands
 
So many conveyor belts. o_o
 
and pipes
 
5:07 PM
@El'endiaStarman this is the (emoticon) face of a man who has seen horrible things
 
oh! This reminds me of one of the things I would do in my early games
 
12 hours ago, by Mego
I have seen hell:
 
I would avoid building belts in the early game because I thought that they were too expensive
 
@Riker Minecraft except instead of mining things by hand, you build things to mine it for you. But then you realize that you need to smelt those by hand, which is a pain. So instead of smelting things by hand, you build some things that smelt it for you. But then you realize you need something that will automatically mine the coal for you so that you can automate smelting. But then you realize that all of this would be more efficient if you had a specific type of thing unlocked,
so you craft a bunch of science in order to unlock that thing. Hmm. Crafting stuff by hand sucks. So you reorder your coal auto mining/smelting setup to route it all into things that automagically make science for you, and you unlock everything. But then you realize you're not actually making enough copper, so you go back and set up more copper mining/smelting. But when you route that into your automated science factory, you realize it's all organized wrong.
So you tear it down and make a new one. And then everything is great, but you realize that you're consuming too much electricity, so you try to add more steam engines, but then you realize that you need more coal. So you add more coal mining...
 
I'd end up spending 20 minutes transporting stuff by hand
 
5:08 PM
@El'endiaStarman can you stack.imgur the last thing
the image after that
imgur is blocked :/
@DJMcMayhem so it's an infinite train of sadness and addiction
 
And then that whole trend repeats at larger scales
 
sounds fun
 
@Riker More like an infinite train of refining and golfing and expanding.
(and happines)
(... and addiction)
 
@Riker Both of Mego's images are now on SE Imgur.
 
thanks
oh, so it's kinda like dorf fortress
I finally got into that game recently and it's sucking my spare time up
 
5:11 PM
kind of. Dwarf fortress has a lot more...intricacies.
 
yes
 
this game really is about automation.
 
so it's robot dwarves :p
./s
 
like, you start by doing everything yourself. Then you automate mining resources. Then you automate crafting. Then you automate transport. Then you automate the placing down of buildings.
Oh, and automating research
 
ah okay
wha'ts research do?
 
5:13 PM
give you more stuff to build
 
> This isn't so much a game as it is a digital Zen Garden. I've lost hours (400+ apparently) tweaking my factory. Sometimes to make it look prettier. Sometimes to rebuild it because I need space for yeah another stream of components. Sometimes just because I've approached Zen and don't want to give it up.

For every bottleneck in material flow you find and fix, you'll create two more. And once you've got everything working perfectly, Your factory will be stalled because of resource exhaustion, spitters and bitters, or a new production option changes your resource needs. If that sounds like
 
like, of all of those transport methods, you only start out with the mechanical hands and transport belts from the start
 
It's like a puzzle game where the puzzles are invented by you, and any time you solve one you realize that you can solve the same puzzle even better
 
spitters & bitters?
 
enemies
Oh! I forgot to mention: when I was in the modding world of factorio, I wanted to make a mod that would randomize the shape of buildings, and the recipe components of items (while maintaining balance). That way, no two games would be the same
 
5:18 PM
> Flow theory postulates three conditions that have to be met to achieve a flow state:
1. One must be involved in an activity with a clear set of goals and progress. This adds direction and structure to the task.[14]
2. The task at hand must have clear and immediate feedback. This helps the person negotiate any changing demands and allows them to adjust their performance to maintain the flow state.[14]
3. One must have a good balance between the perceived challenges of the task at hand and their own perceived skills. One must have confidence in one's ability to complete the task at hand.[14]
Factorio is really good at providing these conditions and/or making it easy for the player to provide them. Particularly #3 - it's super easy to adjust the difficulty of your goal on the fly.
:O They use Blender for their 3D models!
 
5:41 PM
anybody here played CK2?
 
@Riker What does that stand for?
 
crusader kings 2
it's the one with fun things like inbreeding royal familes
 
Responsible for a few alarming-at-first-sight question titles on HNQ.
"As a queen, how do I remove my son from the line of succession for the throne?"
 
 
5 hours later…
Anonymous
10:28 PM
 
@Mego I'll pray for your soul
 
Anonymous
It's long gone. I shot it up into space on a rocket back in 0.14
 
Anonymous
11:33 PM
Man, playing on a map where the closest stone is behind biters has some interesting challenges
 
Anonymous
I literally cannot expand my iron smelting enough to fully support all of my production until I clear the biters out
 
11:47 PM
You can at least produce ammo and turrets, yeah?
 
Anonymous
Yep
 
Anonymous
But there's an enormous nest just to the east of the stone patch that I have to clear out
 
Anonymous
Like 10+ spawners
 
Anonymous
I need a tank
 
Anonymous
11:50 PM
But tanks require red circuits :(
 
Anonymous
And oil refineries require stone
 
I mean, I saw DJ effectively wipe out sizable biter nests yesterday with marching turrets.
 
Anonymous
Yep, and I wiped out about half of it before having to retreat for more ammo
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
What I'm dealing with right now
 
Anonymous
11:56 PM
 
Anonymous
What I get to deal with later
 
.... I have no words. This is what an atomic bomb is for, I presume.
 
Anonymous
Nukes are waaaaaay down the tech tree :P
 
Anonymous
Actually nukes are for cleaning up old factories after you build new ones
 
Anonymous
Really though, I'm not planning on expanding much in that direction (except to hit the juicy 2.2M iron patch), so I don't even really need to clean out that big nest. Just walls + laser turrets to defend.
 

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