CG&CC-gaming

Nathan Merrill

00:18

well, if you guys ever want to play multiplayer, I'd be up for it

El'endia Starman

00:45

How does multiplayer work relative to single player?

Anonymous

The problem with multiplayer is, the need for strict lockstep synchronization between server and clients makes it unplayable with higher (~100 ms) pings or reasonable complexity (due to UPS issues).

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman Everything is the same, except there are multiple players, and you can kill each other. And you will kill each other, because nobody is good at driving tanks.

Nathan Merrill

@Mego yeah, I agree. I definitely feel the lag every time

that said, I still enjoy designing factories with people

Anonymous

It's possible to set players on different teams (via console commands or mods) so that they can't access each others' stuff and are treated as enemies by e.g. turrets, but most people don't do that

Anonymous

A multiplayer game on the dangOREous scenario (world is covered in random mixed ores, cannot place non-miner buildings on ores, ore density scales linearly outward from ~5 per square next to spawn) would be interesting

Nathan Merrill

00:52

have you seen that scenario where there are a bunch of black spots that are unbuildable?

Anonymous

Oh yeah, the labyrinth

Nathan Merrill

that was the one where land moved?

that's not the one I'm thinking of

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill Biters

I restarted after dying

Although I don't think I technically needed to

Nathan Merrill

nope you don't

DJMcMayhem

It feels more appropriate to be forced to start over after dying

Anonymous

00:56

@NathanMerrill Oh I thought you meant the one where the map was laid out so that there were labyrinth-like "walls" of empty black space. That one is called tectonic something I think.

DJMcMayhem

Maybe I'm just more used to roguelikes

Anonymous

Dying is fun!

DJMcMayhem

@Mego I could use some advice. Should I bother to setup turrets that are automatically filled with bullets?

Nathan Merrill

@DJMcMayhem I don't

unless I plan on not going military for a long time

because lasers are so good

Anonymous

@DJMcMayhem It's not necessary for the start, but as you progress, you'll end up needing them. Not necessarily because the biters swarm you quickly, but rather because you'll end up forgetting about the turrets for a while and they'll run dry.

DJMcMayhem

01:00

It seems like a major pain to have a bullet belt running around the perimeter of my base

Nathan Merrill

then research lasers :P

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill What colors does that require?

Nathan Merrill

black

DJMcMayhem

(I've never gotten very far, still very much a noob)

@NathanMerrill just red green and black? Or blue also?

Nathan Merrill

plus green and red :P

DJMcMayhem

01:01

Ah

Nathan Merrill

I don't believe blue?

I'm not sure..

Anonymous

I think lasers requires blue

Nathan Merrill

just looked, it doesn't

wiki.factorio.com/Laser_turrets_(research)

Anonymous

Apparently not

Nathan Merrill

they do require oil processing

because they need batteries

DJMcMayhem

01:04

I've never gotten to oil before

Nathan Merrill

well, everything in factorio has the "upfront work" vs "long term savings" trade off

DJMcMayhem

It's also dumb that inserters won't fill turrets beyond a certain point :/

I get why, it just doesn't seem to make sense for turrets specifically

Nathan Merrill

If I'm not going to be going lasers for a while, then that trade off becomes more worth it

Anonymous

I still haven't interalized the tech reqs for 0.15, and so 0.15 and 0.14 tech mix together in my head. I think lasers in 0.14 required blue science.

Nathan Merrill

yeah, because there wasn't black tech :P

Anonymous

01:07

@DJMcMayhem Make a buffer chest behind the turret

Nathan Merrill

and if the chest is too big, you can ctrl-click to limit which spots are fillable

it is ctrl-click?

keyboard shortcuts are hard to remember once they are in muscle memory

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill Nah, there's a red X you drag

Nathan Merrill

ah, thats right

DJMcMayhem

@Mego That fixes one problem, but it still won't feed the turret very fast.

Nathan Merrill

are you running out of ammo too fast?

build more turrets or build better ammo

DJMcMayhem

01:10

Wait, how fast does a turret shoot? Is a fast inserter slower or faster than it?

Nathan Merrill

if its constantly shooting, slower

but that's not the case

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill I haven't gotten auto filling turrets yet, but the bottleneck is still gonna be the inserter since it won't fill more than 5

Nathan Merrill

well, that also depends on your research

DJMcMayhem

Oh, stack inserters?

Nathan Merrill

you can get stack bonuses for non-stack inserters

DJMcMayhem

01:12

@NathanMerrill is the answer faster inserters or higher inserting limit?

Or are both possible?

Nathan Merrill

@DJMcMayhem I doubt you'll go through 5 fast enough, unless the biters have evolved heavily

and if that's the case, you want better ammo or lasers

the inserters aren't your problem

Anonymous

Like Nathan said - if you're at the point where a turret will run through a magazine before a fast inserter loads another one, you've got bigger problems. Piercing rounds are great for mid-game.

Anonymous

Stack inserters will load several at a time, so they can keep up better

Anonymous

And by that point, you should have lasers (but beware - they cause big power spikes when firing, so you'll want to make sure you have plenty of backup power)

DJMcMayhem

@Mego I'm not nearly far enough for that to be an issue :P

El'endia Starman

01:36

@Mego The campaign level I just finished had laser turrets and yeah, big power spike when they were firing, which shut down everything else, but I watched the power graph and saw that power output spiked too at the same times.

Nathan Merrill

02:05

@El'endiaStarman how did you find out about the power graph?

that was a feature I didn't find for a while

and the production graph much longer

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill When I started playing, I just clicked on everything to see what kind of interface it would display

Anonymous

Turns out biters display the "ouch" interface when you click on them

El'endia Starman

Found out about the power graph via a tip at the start because I happened to look through them a second time. I knew about the production graph because I looked at the keyboard controls.

@Mego The display for inserters seems so useless and weirdly hard to get rid of.

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman It does have a use when you start hooking everything up to circuits

Nathan Merrill

@Mego what about biter spawners or worms?

Anonymous

02:09

@NathanMerrill "oof" and "owie", respectively

Nathan Merrill

lol

El'endia Starman

I feel like it'd be kinda hard to get close enough to a worm to find out without dying.

Nathan Merrill

worms are hit or miss

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman There are ways in mid-to-late-game

El'endia Starman

This may be one of the deepest games I've ever played.

Nathan Merrill

02:10

worms don't evolve, which means that some of them don't hurt a ton, others kill you outright

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman Wait until you try Bobs+Angels+SpaceX

Nathan Merrill

I've never done SpaceX

Anonymous

It's a nightmare :P

Nathan Merrill

but I do all of angels, including the chemistry stuff

El'endia Starman

Yeah, I'll probably get to mods next year. :P

Anonymous

02:12

You have to do the equivalent of like 20 vanilla rocket launches in order to get a real launch. Each time.

Nathan Merrill

the problem with a mod like SpaceX is that I rarely ever actually get to the endgame

Anonymous

I've only ever played B+A+S in Seablock, and even then I've barely progressed

Nathan Merrill

I generally get to the point where I've automated research, and then I'm usually done

except for the rocket research, of course

I like the idea of Seablock, though I really wish they would start you off with nothing

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill That would be impossible, since there are no ore patches

Nathan Merrill

right, but I'd add a couple of 1x1 ore patches

either that, or you give them raw resources

giving them a bunch of buildings is basically where my problems lie

yeah, I like the raw resources better.

Anonymous

02:18

You'd need ores, a sorter, and a smelter at the start

Nathan Merrill

and a pump, right?

Anonymous

I don't think water is necessary for building a pump

Anonymous

Unless I'm forgetting some change to the pump recipe because I haven't played Seablock in ages

Nathan Merrill

oh, I understand what you are saying

no, its not.

you can hand-sort ores

and hand-build a smelter

Anonymous

But you can't hand-smelt ores

Anonymous

02:19

And I thought hand-sorting wasn't possible

Nathan Merrill

in b + a, it is

Anonymous

Huh, I never tried

Nathan Merrill

its rather annoying if I have a recipe that calls for stone

because it'll try to sort ores

Anonymous

Ok, so ores and a smelter to start

Nathan Merrill

you don't need a smelter because you can build it from stone which doesn't need smelting

Anonymous

02:20

Then build a sorter, sort ores, and use slag for landfill

Anonymous

Oh right stone furnaces don't use bricks

Nathan Merrill

@Mego I don't know if you follow the reddit, but there was an event where they removed everybody's ability to walk

reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/68z994/…

aha! I found the scenario I was looking for

reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/642n8q/…

El'endia Starman

02:46

Geez, I am not touching those. Not for a looong time. :P

Anonymous

04:17

@NathanMerrill Oh right, Laziest Bastard

DJMcMayhem

rollingstone.com/glixel/features/…

El'endia Starman

04:54

@DJMcMayhem Nice article. And very apropos for what people are doing in Factorio. :P

El'endia Starman

23:00

Just showed my godson Rogue Squadron 3D and played it a bit myself. Ahhh, what a wonderful game...

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