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ryang
ryang
9:39 AM
I just found myself at math.stackexchange.com/contact shooting off a hastily-worded feedback, then stopped myself from clicking Submit. Should I?
To a casual visitor who has just stumbled on the Mathematics Stackexchange website, it is simply a forum for asking mathematics questions (yet it is really not); understandably, several times an hour, students in search of homework help post "problem-statement questions" that very quickly get downvoted, closed, and deleted by the community, who, in response, usually also manually issues, in the Comments section, friendly reminders to the culprit.

Few people actually read "terms and conditions" or instruction manuals, and likewise it is unrealistic to expect that visitors will have read the…
 
Martin Sleziak
Martin Sleziak
@ryang Incidentally, somewhat similar feature request was posted recently on MathOverflow Meta: Feature request: add short "about MathOverflow" section to the front page. (Although it got basically no response from the MO community, if we do not count votes.)
@ryang It is not thee same as having a banner - but I'll check whether you're aware that every user is shown some information before asking the first question.
 
ryang
ryang
**hastily- and naively-worded
 
Martin Sleziak
Martin Sleziak
6
A: Edition of formulas from a generic New Contributor for the first post or comment: how do they learn it?

quidFor some time, a new user to the site was shown the following page before asking their first question https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/ask/advice (due to a recent SE modification this likely changed, I'll need to find out what it shows now). It started: Welcome to Mathematics Stack Excha...

 
ryang
ryang
@MartinSleziak Thanks for that screencap (I hadn't seen it before). How long has that notice been in effect? I ask because the notice appears to be customised for Mathematics SE, yet it sounds so ineffectual and non-targeted (no mention of MSE not being a homework service, showing attempts, indirect reference to our EoQS, etc). :( That notice needs to be updated and made clearer, I mean.
 
Martin Sleziak
Martin Sleziak
The same screenshot is also in this feature request of mine: Change the link to search in modal window for the first-time askers. (It was statust-declined, currently it's not possible to do that. I am mentioning this post mainly because it contains also some links mentioning the history of this window shown before the first question.)
Re: How long has that notice been in effect?
The previous version is here since 2015: Show "how to ask" advice before a new user asks a question
And here is announcement from 2020, when it was replaced by the modal window: The new ask page is now live on the network!
BTW here is also a post on meta asking about some stats whether introducing this in 2015 actually made some difference: How much did "advice for first-time askers" help?
 
ryang
ryang
9:54 AM
I see. Do you think I should submit the feedback? It won't be a tipping point, but I feel that the more noise we make the more they take our concern seriously. I asked this a chat a few yrs ago, and was informed that Stackexchange won't implement some banner as the SE visual template doesn't have such a field. (Not that this has been stopping them from making radical design changes.)
 
Martin Sleziak
Martin Sleziak
Sorry for the linkfest above - you asked how long it was here, so I wanted to include a relevant link.
@ryang Maybe you can wait to see what others think about that.
Personally, I don't think that posting such feedback will do any harm. At the same time, I don't think that SE will act in any way based on this. (My impression is that non-trivial changes - such as this - are rarely changed just based on feedback.)
In my opinion, if you feel strongly about this, then it would be reasonable to post this suggestion as a feature request on meta (somewhat fleshed out, with including all necessary details - maybe also mentioning the information about the modal window).
I am not sure whether it is likely to get implemented - but at the very least, post on meta would give a place for other Mathematics users to express their opinion on this.
@ryang Do you happen to have a link to that chat?
 
ryang
ryang
No, it might have been you or the other Martin who told me that in one of your rooms. (Sorry, I keep mixing up the names of you two tech wizards!)
 
Martin Sleziak
Martin Sleziak
I found this - but maybe that's not the one you meant:
in CURED, Jul 26, 2021 at 16:41, by Ryan G
On a tangent: The signal:noise ratio of MSE will surely be improved by a screaming notice visible to new users (either in a banner, the sidebar, or a via a "welcome to MSE! do check if your post has met the following criteria blah blah: 1) not merely seeking opinions, 2) demonstrated effort 3) blah blah" pre-submission notification/welcome message)
in CURED, Jul 26, 2021 at 22:32, by Teresa Lisbon
@RyanG It would, but just like a host of other suggestions (quizzes for newbies, having their questions pass through an initial review queue, improving their feedback etc.) the implementation falls into SE's hands, and they will not want to reduce their user base by prompting checks for users. Basically, SE is trying hard not to put the guidelines into play : it wants as much traffic as possible, ideally. For that reason, our circumstances and suggestions usually revolve around what is...
in CURED, Jul 26, 2021 at 22:34, by Teresa Lisbon
... already present. Which is people , and their attitudes. So EoQS may be divisive : but in spirit I just wanted EoQS to be that "reminder" to everybody that we were losing ourselves in the flood. If the attitude of the public changes with respect to such actions, then we are in a better place. But thanks for your suggestion!
in CURED, Jul 27, 2021 at 3:32, by Ryan G
@TeresaLisbon Thanks for shedding light re: the logistics of implementing automatic quality checks. I hadn't realised either that individual sites under the Stackexchange aren't ever permitted to have a site(domain)-specific banner or sidebar box
 
ryang
ryang
Yes that's the chat, I believe. (It's more recent that I'd remembered.) Hehe. thanks @Martin
 
Martin Sleziak
Martin Sleziak
Well, it's possible that you've discussed this in chat more that once. This chat was what I found when I tried to search for the word banner in your chat messages.
I guess I have already said more-or-less everything I have to say on this issue. (At least at the moment there's nothing else I can think of.)
We'll see whether somebody else will comment.
 
ryang
ryang
10:08 AM
No, actually, you're right: I think there was an earlier chat (perhaps with a Martin), who mentioned something about the banner being an ill fit for the SE design template. in any case, these old chats are not important -)
 
Martin Sleziak
Martin Sleziak
Well, I do not claim that those old chats are really that important. But it would be interesting to know where the information about the SE design and banners come from. (For example, if there already is a post on this issue on Meta Stack Exchange, that would be good to know.)
Of course, if that information was from me and I do not remember it, it's a bit embarrassing - but I think that it is natural to forget some stuff.
I have some stuff to do IRL - see you later!
 

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