last day (267 days later) » 

4:34 AM
Welcome frenz
 
A+ for the description
 
Nice room description.
 
So what should be the course of action? Just pick out exercises, or run through them all linearly, or...?
 
There aren't too many, I think within reason we could go through all of them
 
Sure. How structured ought we be about this?
 
4:44 AM
I think we should ensure that we get through the content, but we needn't be too rigid
 
like we can keep in the same general area, without stricturing that people be working on the same problem at the same time
 
Oh also I'm like $100(1-\epsilon)\%$ sure I sent the book to each of you already
But here is a place to download anyway
 
but like if you notice yourself getting chapters ahead of the group, work on other topics for a bit till the rest catch up
thanks @dami
 
5:02 AM
I suppose we'll all try to get through these first six exercises and then we'll move on to chapter 2 when we're all good.
Collaboration should be encouraged here, but if you already know the answer, hints and Socratic lines of questioning would be far more useful to us than direct answers.
But then again we all know that--just wanted to make it common knowledge.
 
agreed
 
5:15 AM
steps out of main chat for a bit
 
Yeah I also like the notion that this could potentially be a place we can discuss general math without having to deal with politics
 
..yeah seriously
 
Oh Jesus, I like how quickly these exercises amp themselves up.
It goes from "hey, standard induction proofs" to "PROVE BALANCED TERNARY IS COMPLETE" real quick
 
oh damn
 
It definitely seems quick in my experience
Laci liked it a lot
 
5:28 AM
I'm actually not quite sure how to approach I.5 in particular.
Possibly induction on $n$?
 
Sorry, got disconnected for a while. Back now.
 
That sounds reasonable
 
So, did we decide what we want to do?
 
@BalarkaSen Basically systematically go through baby Weil and do all the exercises.
 
We've decided we'll do number theory, more generally
 
5:32 AM
Let me check if I have the book
 
It's linked above
 
dami linked it
 
Sniping is inevitable
 
ptchew
 
Cool, thanks. Downloading rn
Ok, I1, I2, I3 are super-trivial
add I4
 
5:36 AM
There's an more easily available copy on google which is a pdf
But that has 2 pages side by side
 
@BalarkaSen I.4 had me for a second, but then I just wrote it down and was like "oh"
 
I think it can be done without induction.
 
Sure, but I feel like any non-inductive proof would invoke more heavy machinery.
Unless you can prove me wrong, which I admit isn't uncommon.
 
$4^{2n+1}+3^{n+2} = 4 \cdot 16^n + 9 \cdot 3^n$.
16 mod 13 = 3
9 mod 13 = -4
 
Oh man, that's cute.
 
5:40 AM
Oh I like that
 
So the whole thing mod 13 is $4 \cdot 3^n - 4 \cdot 3^n = 0$
 
I had thought to use a modular argument for it but I figured it would be uncouth since the book hadn't defined it yet.
 
Yeah modular arithmetic has not been introduced yet in Chap 1
 
And also didn't see the exact argument as you've laid it out.
 
It took me a while to remember how to do these sort of things using modular arithmetic
But yeah, nice trick to keep in mind at least
Let's move on to I5
 
5:44 AM
ooooh very nice
 
I will say that I won't be able to be much of a participant over this coming week
 
I5 is base representation, and the observation that $2\equiv -1 \mod{3}$, yes?
 
I think I can do I6
 
Same as @dami, we've got finals week
 
My professors are arming themselves with machine cannons (read: finals)
 
5:49 AM
@Araske OH
 
that does work yes?
 
As it stands what I'm set to do is spend all night studying real hard for analysis, then sleep at around 9:30 (need to add-drop into bio)
 
oh hell forgot about add-drop
when does it open?
 
9AM
 
kthx
 
5:51 AM
Also that's a good way of doing it
 
also jfc i need to write a paper
 
I think it does, @Araske
 
sweet
 
also, totally cool about the exams thing. we can all just do this after we're all free
 
Though while I'm in general supportive of using machinery when available, I think that the puzzle-ish nature of the subject might mean that it's better to stick more to techniques that have been introduced up to that point
 
5:53 AM
(I'm more or less free anytime :P)
 
i feel like modulus is fair game, its quite easily defined and reasoned about
and i'm going to be busy with finals til thursday, then moveout, probably won't be able to work on nt until next monday at the earliest
 
I'm more concerned about whether there's an insight that is involved in solving a problem using less machinery, but then once you invoke more it becomes immediate
 
my general strategy is to prove/understand something in as many possible ways as i can
 
Oh you may like this one thing in Sally's book
He proves FTA, and then says to find 10 other proofs in an exercise :P
 
lol
 
6:02 AM
oh god that
 
so just to thrash out Araske's argument on I5: i guess, given an N, you expand it in base 3 to get $N = \sum a_i 3^i$ where $a_i = 0, 1, 2$. rearrange so that $N = \sum b_i 3^i$ and $b_i = -1, 0, 1$
and we want $N$ to be of size $n$, right? because the expansion goes till $3^{n-1}$?
 
@BalarkaSen I'm wondering if there's a way to do this that doesn't require knowing that base 3 is complete a priori.
 
@BalarkaSen No, it's balanced ternary, upper bound on $N$ is $(3^n - 1)/2$
 
I am not sure I get that. You can expand all $N$'s such that $1 \leq N \leq 10^n - 1$ as $N = \sum_{i = 1}^{n-1} a_i 10^i$, right? ($a_i = 0, \cdots, 9$)
 
6:08 AM
@BalarkaSen But here $a_i$ can't be $2$, it can only be $-1$
So the max number is $1 + 3 + \cdots + 3^{n-1} = (3^n - 1)/(3 - 1)$
 
Oh. Right.
I was thinking, like, if you have some $a_i = 2$, you can rearrange to get all of them to be $-1$ (because $3 - 2 = -1$) but that might add a $3^n$ somewhere in the expansion
sorry
Ok, so how do I do this with induction
 
Well the base case is obvious: $1$ can be represented as $1 \cdot 1$
For the inductive step, I'm not so sure, but I think it would work to show that any integer between $(3^n - 1)/2$ and $3^n$ is of the form $3^n - k$ where $k$ is an integer less than $(3^n - 1)/2$, and then beyond $3^n$ is of the form $3^n + k$.
Since $k$ has a balanced ternary representation by inductive assumption, it holds.
Oh wow, that actually finishes it.
 
Ah right
 
This seems roughly analogous to proving that any integer base representation is complete.
 
Err, so if $N$ is so that $3^n \leq N \leq (3^{n+1} - 1)/2$, then $N - 3^n$ is less than $(3^n - 1)/2$? Hmm, it's bounded by $(3^{n+1} - 1)/2 - 3^n = (3^{n+1} - 1 - 2 \cdot 3^n)/2 = (3^n - 1)/2$. Ok, yea
Nice.
i should probably write rough calculation stuff on pen and paper than on this chat :P
 
6:22 AM
It may actually be of some benefit to write it here.
 
10% of the time benefit to others, 90% of the time embarrassment of me
lol
 
Now for the real test: I.6.
 
volume of a hypercube?
 
The hint is pretty good actually
 
I agree.
 
6:31 AM
true
 
my hobby is using sharelatex and typing "\suu [enter]" to get "\subsubsection"
 
I don't like to do this using induction though
i have a non-induction proof
 
It should just be combinatorical, no?
 
stars and bars, yup
 
OH its sum of exponents
 
6:35 AM
exactly. if you do it for homogeneous poly's, you're counting terms of the form $X_0^{i_0} X_1^{i_1} \cdots X_n^{i_n}$ such that $i_0 + i_1 + \cdots + i_n =d$
so this is a partition question; how many unordered partitions are there of $d$ into $n$ parts?
 
past me who didn't know what degree of n-variate polynomial meant thought this was trivial
 
(is my terminology right? is it called unordered?)
 
yeah, so its multichoice
 
right
 
That phrase felt trolley problem-esque
 
6:36 AM
You would want ordered partitions, no?
 
i call them multisets but not sure
 
"Multi-choice orderings"
 
oh yeah ordered. why do i confuz
 
@Daminark drifts
 
so like $\{1,1,2,4\}$ represents $x_1^2 x_2 x_4$
 
6:38 AM
righto
 
k, got it then
 
Oh. I thought by that you would have meant $x_1x_2x_3^2x_4$.
But that makes more sense because $0$ isn't problematic
 
I have potentially interesting things to say about this problem, but maybe I'll say it later when we know more
 
I finished it, myself.
The hint makes it almost too easy.
 
mhm
 
6:47 AM
Justifying the latter part of the hint is maybe the hardest part of it, and even that doesn't take much to see.
 
yeah it's the "homogenization" process
 
7:07 AM
I guess I'll defer and wait for the group to say we're good to move ahead.
 
yeah i think this is enough for a day
do you know projective spaces
 
I've heard of stuff like, $\mathbb{RP}^n$
 
Vaguely? I have no idea how they actually work or how to think about it
 
oki oki. let me see if i have a good way to parse what i want to say
 
Where could I learn about proj geo?
 
7:09 AM
babai covers some projective combinatorial structure in wombo combo i think, but i havent taken
 
Which to my understanding is $\mathbb{R}^n$ mod the relation that $x \sim y$ if $x = ay$?
 
R^n - 0, but yeah
 
Isn't it $n+1$?
 
Yeah he apparently does a good bit on on projective spaces, especially finite projective spaces
 
yeah, what Daminark described is RP^(n-1)
Ok, let's see. So define $\Bbb{RP}^n = \Bbb R^{n+1} - 0/x \sim y$ like Daminark said, where $x \sim y$ if $x = \lambda y$ for some $\lambda \neq 0$. That means a "point" in $\Bbb{RP}^n$ is a whole line through origin in $\Bbb R^{n+1}$
 
7:14 AM
Then what are the lines in $\Bbb{RP}^n$?
 
You can write a point in $\Bbb {RP}^n$ as $[x_0 : x_1 : \cdots : x_n]$ where not all of the coordinates are zero - that represents all the points of the form $(\lambda x_0, \lambda x_1, \cdots \lambda x_n)$ in $\Bbb R^{n+1} - 0$
This is called "homogeneous coordinates"
 
Alright, I've heard of that.
 
@Fargle Good question.
 
I'd wager they're more just a product of the axioms of a projective space (any two points have a unique line between them) than a concrete visualizable thing
 
Should be a 1-parameter family of lines through the origin, right? So a plane through the origin
I think
 
7:17 AM
@BalarkaSen That doesn't seem to work for $\Bbb{RP}^1$, at least unless you distinguish planes by the direction of their component vectors
 
What's the dimension of $\mathbb{RP}^1$?
 
@Fargle The line in RP^1 is RP^1 itself. I don't get your objection
 
@BalarkaSen Oh. Never mind.
I was thinking of $\Bbb{RP}^1$ as living in $\Bbb R^2$ as the unit circle.
 
@Daminark Well, 1, but let's think of RP^n as a set with some geometric.... thing instead of a manifold
at least for now
 
That's fair
 
7:21 AM
So the big deal is you can think of homogeneous polynomials in $n+1$ variables as curves in $\Bbb{RP}^n$
Let $P(X_0, \cdots, X_n)$ be such a polynomial; then $P(\lambda X_0, \cdots, \lambda X_n) = \lambda^d P(X_0, \cdots, X_n)$ where $d =$ degree of $P$.
(by homogeneity)
 
Right.
 
so if I look at the subset $Z$ of $\Bbb R^{n+1} - 0$ where $P = 0$, then that can be realized as a union of lines through the origin in $\Bbb R^{n+1} - 0$
Which gives a "zero locus" of $P$ in $\Bbb{RP}^n$
(by realizing every line as a point)
 
Alright, I'm with you so far.
 
And that's what is known as an algebraic hypersurface in $\Bbb{RP}^n$.
(it's a curve of dimension $n-1$)
 
So it's basically a variety.
 
7:25 AM
yah exactly
 
has read the first two pages of an alg. geom. text
How does this help us study the polynomial?
 
I'll get to something concrete in a bit, but let me talk about a further level of generality here. please bear with me :p i'm sure a better person would have explained things in a better way
 
time to talk about configuration spaces
 
Absolutely, go on.
 
that's exactly what i'm gonna do, @Daminark ;p
 
7:27 AM
which my manifolds TA mentioned once since that is/was his research :P
Oh really? Woo
 
So points in $\Bbb P^n$ (abbreviation smabbreviation) correspond to lines-through-origin in $\Bbb R^{n+1}$. I want to construct a space points of which correspond to hypersurfaces in $\Bbb P^n$ :p
 
Ahhhhhh, okay. And is every possible hypersurface a zero locus of some homogeneous polynomial?
 
Actually, this is not too hard. Let $P = 0$ be a hypersurface in $\Bbb P^n$. Since $P$ is homogenenous write it as $P = \sum a_{i_0 i_1 \cdots i_n} X_0^{i_0} \cdots X_n^{i_n}$
@Fargle by definition, yep
 
oh tru
 
Actually, we're classifying degree $d$ hypersurfaces, for a fixed $d$.
In any case so you have $(n+d-1)!/n!(d-1)! = \binom{n+d-1}{n}$ many coefficients of the form $a_{\text{blah blah}}$ up there, by the exercise you did
 
7:32 AM
Is this in the sense of degree of a map?
 
Well, nah, degree of polynomial. Homogenenous poly $P$ has degree $d$
$i_0 + i_1 + \cdots + i_n = d$
 
Oh whoops, yeah yeah
 
I'm gonna hope against hope that the space is just $\Bbb R^{stuff}$.
 
@Fargle exactly! the easiest thing is to look at (a_blah), and so you end up looking at $\Bbb R^{\binom{n+d-1}{n}}$
but there's a sneakery here
$P = 0$ is the same hypersurface as $\lambda P = 0$
$\lambda \neq 0$
 
OH so it can be realized as a projective space itself?
 
7:35 AM
Yeah!
 
oooooh
 
Well slap me silly.
 
slaps Fargle silly
 
thx
 
So identify (a_blah) with (lambda a_blah). The relevant space which classifyies degree d hypersurface in $\Bbb P^n$ is $\Bbb P^{\binom{n+d - 1}{n} - 1}$
This is the "moduli space of degree d hypersurfaces in Pn" (TM)
Why do I care? Because this construction has super-cool applications. Remember the geometry fact that for any 5 points on R^2, a conic passes through them?
 
7:37 AM
Oh good lord.
 
...oh
 
Hit me.
...figuratively.
 
once again complies with the request
 
i'm starting to see this
 
7:39 AM
Also I don't quite remember this fact, but that's because I've never heard of a conic
Oh wait is that circle/ellipse/parabola/hyperbola
 
@Daminark a point, line, pair of lines, parabola, hyperbola, ellipse, or circle.
 
just try proving it for 5 points in P^2 (any conic on R^2 can be homogenized anyway; x^2 + y^2= 1 becomes (x/z)^2 + (y/z)^2 = 1, ie x^2 + y^2 = z^2 which is homogenenous)
@Daminark yeah, equivalently, a conic on $\Bbb P^2$ is $P = 0$ where $P$ is a degree 2 homogenenous polynomial
That's like $aX^2 + bY^2 + cZ^2 + aXY + bYZ + cXZ = 0$.
 
Ah
 
exactly $\binom{2+2-1}{2}= ... $ erk. wait a second. it should be binom(4, 2), not binom(3, 2). clearly 6 terms
what did i screw up
 
3 + 2 - 1 choose 3
n = 3
...wait, that doesn't work either.
 
7:43 AM
oops, right, there are 3 variables
X, Y, Z
 
@BalarkaSen I think it's the fact that it's not really n + d - 1 choose n
 
hm, oh, guess it should have been n+d choose n
 
That doesn't work either.
 
n + d - 1 choose d?
 
It's not a combination, it's a permutation.
Well, not quite.
 
7:45 AM
sure, why not? we're looking at degree 2 polynomials in P^2: 2 + 2 choose 2
= 6
 
Wait no
 
I googled, actually. Sorry, folks, space of degree d hypersurfaces in $\Bbb P^n$ is $\Bbb P^{\binom{n+d}{n} - 1}$
I messed up the formula.
 
Wow @Balarka I thought I could trust you
 
hangs head in shame
the number of terms in a homogenenous polynomial in n+1 variables of degree d is actually n+d choose n
 
And in $n$ variables is n+d-1 choose n-1
 
7:47 AM
(this is also what Weil says re the n vs n - 1 thing.)
 
There it is.
 
Yup, exactly
Ok, so a conic. That's 2 + 2 choose 2 = 6 coefficients, $a, b, c, d, e, f$
 
So conics live in $\Bbb P^5$.
 
$aX^2 + bY^2 + cZ^2 + dXY + eYZ + fXZ = 0$
Right, @Fargle.
 
And therefore are uniquely determined by 5 points! (there's probably a technicality here but WHEEEEE)
 
7:49 AM
I will use that from now on whenever there are technicalities that I don't want to deal with
 
So suppose $p_1, p_2, p_3, p_4, p_5$ be 5 points on $\Bbb P^2$. Look at the space $S_i$ of conics passing through $p_i$ for each $i$. These are hyperplanes (copies of $\Bbb P^4$) in $\Bbb P^5$, because if you plug in the coordinates of $p_i$ in a conic $P$, you end up with a linear equation in $a, b, c, d, e, f$ = 0
 
Or if I'm worried that the people will press I'll just say "If I explain it, things will be confusing, but the more you look at it, the more trivial it becomes" (re: my analysis prof :P)
 
So you get 5 hyperplanes $S_1, S_2, \cdots, S_5$ in $\Bbb P^5$. Those intersect at a point (like in Euclidean spaces)
generically at least. unless $p_1, p_2, \cdots, p_5$ lie on a line or lie one above another or something, in which case they'll intersect in more than a point, but at least a point
 
I can agree with that.
 
That point in $\Bbb P^5$ corresponds to a conic passing through all the $p_i$'s
as desired
$\blacksquare$
 
7:52 AM
I like this proof. It smacks of hitting a fly with a bazooka.
 
i love that box
 
Noice @box and proof
 
go me for wasting all of your half an hour
 
not like I would have been doing anything else
But that was extremely informative.
 
@Fargle You can actually generalize this; for any 9 points in the plane there's a cubic passing thru them
'cuz dimension of moduli space of cubics in P^2 is (2+3, 3) - 1 = 10 - 1 = 9
 
7:54 AM
@BalarkaSen sim., 14 points determine a quartic?
 
Whoa, that's crazy.
 
oooooh
 
trippy, bruh
 
Oh shnap
 
7:59 AM
these stuff put me on a high when i learnt them
hell if i remember half of em anymore
 
I refer to all math as trippy now.
 
@Araske Bergeron
 
I blame a night my freshman year that was supposed to be a party night but ended in me reading D-F. cough cough
 
actually tho
 
We were sitting in on this one algebra class where the instructor was trying to explain modular arithmetic and was like
 
8:00 AM
The definition of homomorphism is now literally etched in my grey matter.
 
man you haven't lived if you haven't left a party because doing math sounds more fun
 
i would not read DF on drugs
 
"Let's say you're wearing these glasses and tripping, you can only see the remainders of numbers when divided by 3"
I would not read DF
 
@BalarkaSen If I had had Artin, I would've been all over it.
My point is that I am told and cannot confirm for myself that acid is fun.
 
lol, @Damin, who was it
 
8:03 AM
Maxime Bergeron, he's one of the people on a 3 year appointment
 
ah ok
 
theres also the story of this one professor here who invited his grad students to get dinner and work at his home
 
Oh lord that...
 
he went into another room to get something, then shouted to his students "Hey, does anyone want some shrooms?"
 
lolol
 
8:07 AM
Guess who
 
transfers to UC
 
is this a topologist
or analyst
 
of course
topology
 
"Of course"
 
Farb?
 
8:08 AM
topologists are crazy man
 
Bingo
 
yup
 
i knew it
 
"Bruh, what if we like...what if we like, did analysis, but without numbers?"
"Whoooaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
 
rofl
 
8:10 AM
the birth of topology
Lol my analysis professor described probability as analysis on a finite measure space where you don't care about the domain
 
seriously though i've not met a single topology prof who isn't, to some degree, insane
and that's basically the case
 
me neither actually
 
I dunno Peter May seems p normal
 
... dami
 
meh he's not topologist
 
8:13 AM
...
 
homotopy theorist
damn them, i can't understand shit of their work
 
...he was one of the ones i was thinking of
him and agnes
and obviously farb but like
 
I was joking, Peter May is bizarre
 
good okay
 
Is he? Huh
 
8:14 AM
agnes is younger peter may
for reference
my calc prof last year
 
See normally I'd say that I wish I was in her class but 9AM classes are the Antichrist
 
correct
 
So this is about Weil - Number Theory for Beginners?
Perhaps the name of the book could be in room description or at least on the starboard.
 
@MartinSleziak Yep!
 
Yup, that's the plan
room topic changed to Number Theory Study Group: Actually Number Theory Study Integral Domain but whatever (Weil's Number Theory for Beginners) (no tags)
 
8:17 AM
Thanks!
When I have a bit of time, I'll have a look what level that book is.
 
It's pretty elementary, a first course more or less
 
^
The exercises are really good though because most of them are what a number theory book might prove for you anyway.
 
Agreed.
 
Sounds good. It's a pretty comprehensive book on the basics of number theory. For what it's worth we'll probably only really start picking up steam later once finals are through.
And I mean, depending on when we get through this we may go deeper into other books
3
 
@Daminark It'd also be fun to branch this study group out in other directions as we see fit.
(First things first, of course.)
 
8:25 AM
alright, i need to get some work done, see y'all later
 
byebye
I have to go too actually
gotta get physics done
 
Rip
Well, I think now's about a good time to break. After our finals week we can jump back in and go through this for real
 
I'll try to stop myself from reading chapter 2.
 
Lel
 
heheh, you better
 
8:27 AM
Read Mac Lane or Artin instead
 
Lurie or nothing
 
?
 
"Higher Topos Theory". don't you know that book
 
Oh kek
 
I absolutely love how the Chaotic Evil book is under construction
 
8:33 AM
this looks like it came straight off of either Mathematical Mathematics Memes or Homological Cohomology Memes
 
Derived memes for spectral schemes
It's a very specialized meme group
 
i just sent it to a topologist who hates categorical stuff
 
Oh NO how didn't I know about this
 
I only found out about it recently
A friend tagged me in this one meme which included the statement "Algebraic topology is a historical term for category theory"
tags Balarka
 
LOL
 
8:37 AM
it's always yoneda
okie, im really off now
see ya all later
 
See ya
 

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