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12:29 AM
Just had an interesting edit review. Had a comment about reject this edit it's only for testing.
Is that something normal?
 
That might have been me testing my userscript
Here it is:
0
A: review count weirdness

thesecretmasterIn response to this question, I've created a userscript to pull the real numbers from the /review page every 5 seconds. Here it is: // ==UserScript== // @name Improved Review Counters // @version 0.1 // @description Replaces the review counter at the top of the page with better cou...

 
It looked like a regular suggested edit review
 
1:28 AM
Yeah
I was testing a userscript
 
I logged off and suggested an edit as a anon user.
 
Well I hope I didn't get it out of the queue too fast for your script testing to work
 
No, it sat there for about an hour. I got all the tests in that I needed.
 
And how did your results come out?
 
1:43 AM
Got rate limited a couple times
 
I got rate limited when I was playing with my "launch" page. Then it cut me out of all sites and chat :(
Now I'm careful not to refresh it too often.
Time to do some baking. Got to get ready for Monday.
 
 
6 hours later…
7:39 AM
hm... I'm trying a userscript I made, but I can't edit the contents of a <ul>... can't seem to add an <li>...
 
7:59 AM
0
Q: The abstract-first? War

no comprendeWe seem to have a deepening divide and animosity on CSE about how to begin teaching: abstract / high-level first, or concrete / low-level first. (Mixing them is right out.) This cloud on the horizon has all the makings of a holy war, which as we know, cannot end well. There are several ways to a...

 
 
4 hours later…
12:11 PM
3k rep. Yay buffy. pat pat pat.
5
 
wow. I didn't notice :P. Congratulations!
 
12:35 PM
whoever wants some suggested edits reviews score, there are 4 edits running wild.
(which I can't review because I made the edits) (to wikis)
 
clap clap clap @Buffy
 
1:03 PM
I'm working on a long post that I'll put up later (today?). It says a bit more about how I do high level -> low level teaching.
 
I'm adding Israel's education in CS to the meta post.
@Aurora0001 our ministry is so confusing.
(Our = Israel's)
 
Hmm, I'll have to read that when you're done
 
it'll take a while :P
 
 
1 hour later…
2:20 PM
@Buffy Yay! :)
 
0
A: What are common terms used in education in different countries?

ItamarG3As far as terminology goes, Israel uses a system very similar to the one outlined here. A curriculum is supplied by the ministry. It's open for anyone to read (provided you can read Hebrew). Here's a translation of the core points. Education in Israel Primary School (ages 6 to 12): Introduct...

@Aurora0001 there you go.
 
Nice
 
@Aurora0001 ^
 
3:15 PM
Nice!
@ItamarG3 Are there really only 3 language options? "Java, C# or C++"?
 
Yep.
 
(And if so, is that proscribed by a governmental body)
 
Note that I did not include anything about university.
I'll make it wiki, because other users from Israel might have more info.
 
When I did a tour of Israeli schools a few summers ago, I saw at least one group doing robotics programming (Arduino) in C
 
Where? (city)
 
3:19 PM
Hrm... It was such a whirlwind tour, it all blurred together a little bit. Possibly Nahariya?
 
Do you remember if it North or South of the country?
 
We visited and toured 8 high schools, Technion, and various other technology education initiatives in 8 days... it was a lot.
Almost the entire tour was north
 
oh XD. Ok.
@BenI. so Nahariya makes sense.
 
I might be wrong about that.
 
Is it possible you visited Modiin?
Nahariya is well in the north.
 
3:21 PM
Very north :)
I don't recall visiting Modiin
 
Ok. because I happen to know the person in charge of CS in the city :P
 
Also, this was an air force HS, and this was a program specializing in robotics (so perhaps that helps to limit it)
Why are they limited to only 3 languages, all object oriented?
 
Because the curriculum is being updated very slowly, and they haven't caught up on python yet. My (ex-)school does teach python, but it's a semi-private school so I didn't address it in my answer.
 
Python is older than C#, no?
 
not too many schools such as that in the country, and because of <insert details I'd rather not divulge here> it becomes PII...
Yep, but the upswing in popularity is relatively new.
 
3:26 PM
@ItamarG3 Fair enough
We also visited a Druze school, which was very cool
 
Cool.
 
The only listing on my itinerary (I just looked) was "Visit the Air Force Cadet's School", but there is no indication of a city
 
Update: Vitis/day is 922
 
3:41 PM
We haven't had a lot of HNQ going on.
 
4:24 PM
Time to go meta!!!! (going super-Saiyan):
0
Q: Standardizing specific tags

ItamarG3We have the triview1 (these), which have a specific format. This question is about the effectiveness of defining a structure for questions with specific tags (like the whatnot-review tags). I have a proposition, and I wanted to see what others think of it. Firstly, as it's super relevant, what ...

 
^^ sounds like a great idea to me
 
Yay!
 
5:28 PM
yelp. our answer\question ratio is the highest of all betas, I think. 4.8 and climbing.
 
5:45 PM
I'll try launching an HNQ.
 
Hey! I'm trying that! Kidding.
 
Is there an outside community that we could try to target one towards?
 
google resources...
 
Also, hi @EllenSpertus!
I tried to reach out to them, but I don't think it was successful
 
thing about the chaos of an April's fools joke by SE, in which the HNQ list includes metas. Whoa.
@Aurora0001 any chance of such a prank being pulled?
 
5:54 PM
0
Q: Why did the percentage of CS bachelor's degrees going to women peak in 1984?

Ellen SpertusAs shown by the following graph, the percentage of bachelor's degrees going to women in the US has increased over time in almost every major, with the dramatic exception of CS, which peaked in 1984 at 37%, then fell drastically, never to rise again above 20%. Why are the numbers for CS so diff...

 
I am resisting the urge to say "classic". :)
This will probably (hopefully) end up as a HNQ. We'll just have to battle a wall of bad content at some point
 
@ItamarG3 Yep.
 
But actually, asking "why" is, IMO, problematic...
Because no one can really give the reason. But people can answer about what might be contributing to these differences.
@EllenSpertus Right now it's a bit too broad.
 
There are a number of theories, some of which have been tested by data.
I think subjective questions are permitted when answers are backed up by facts and reasoning. cseducators.stackexchange.com/help/dont-ask
Of course, feel free to suggest improvements or vote to close.
 
@ItamarG3 Well, it'd be better than this year's joke :P
 
6:01 PM
@EllenSpertus I'm afraid that I'm leaning towards the latter. But I'll rethink it. To make sure that I'm not just tossing votes :P
@Aurora0001 what was this year's joke?
 
oh. right. I remember.
let me rephrase: It's, IMO, off-topic. It doesn't deal with CS education, exactly. It deals with degrees, but not with teaching or educating in the field of CS. Thoughts?
@EllenSpertus (I might be woefully wrong).
hi @thetha. Welcome to the chat.
 
@ItamarG3 I personally think it is within our scope. As long as it can engender high-quality answers, it is of concern to cs educators. (I know that this debate has raged before; I feel that cseducators is naturally more broad that cseducation)
(I am also aware that my notion is not without controversy here)
 
6:18 PM
Possibly refactor the question asking for the factors that contributed to that phenomena?
Or, methods to counteract said factors?
 
@GypsySpellweaver I'll be sated if that happened XD. I still don't see how it's either cseducators or cseducation...
scored HNQ
 
File it under and . We are the symptoms but not the problem, without which we cannot find the solution.
 
6:43 PM
I'm very curious about what @nova and @nocomprende think about my answer here. (I had them both in mind while writing it)
 
6:59 PM
@EllenSpertus Funnily enough, that single sentence is enough to make the question better (IMO)
 
7:14 PM
It's not scoring so high on the HNQ list...
 
It will when it gets more answers
 
and, more upvotes.
 
Yes. But quick answers are (I think) what brings HNQ stats more than anything
Hey Richard!
Hey Buffy!
 
So, should we spice up (with sugar. Is that a spice? Nevermind) the discussion with some syntactic sugar?
 
I thought that that formation (the name of which is on the tip of my tongue) was pure syntactic sugar
 
7:27 PM
oh
 
@richard then said that it was a functional formation
Functional code, as I understand it, guarantees no side-effects (meaning mutation)
So I pointed out that you can call methods that generate return values, but that there are no guarantees that methods are well-conceived and avoid side-effects.
 
what kind of side effects?
 
So, I make a method like public int sum(int a, int b){ return a+b; }
That does not change any permanent values anywhere (no side effects)
 
oh. all changes are enclosed in scope. Ok.
 
But if I later snuck in and changed it to public int sum(int a, int b){ return a+b; instanceVariable = 0; }
Now I've changed something.
And in this particular case, I've made a particularly badly formed change, as there is absolutely nothing about the method name that would indicate that this would be a mutator method.
So, in a pure functional language, side-effects are not a part of the metaphor at all. I can't say val x = 5; x = x+1;
 
7:33 PM
bad naming is my worst enemy.
 
Once x is 5, it is always 5.
@ItamarG3 When you code, or when you read the code of others?
 
yes and yes
 
Anyway, after my comment, @EllenSpertus said something brilliant and wonderful and deep and I didn't understand it.
BTW, @ItamarG3 are you considering a career as a teacher?
 
Very much so. But I have a few years before it becomes relevant.
 
If you take that path, after you gain your sea legs, I think you would make an exceptional teacher.
 
7:38 PM
blushes furiously
 
@GypsySpellweaver I hope all goes well in the hospital tomorrow.
 
Not a real issue except for the time drain
 
Ellen's question needs answers and upvotes to stay a HNQ... I wonder if it'll get them. Either way, it got into the HNQ. I'll try to write a HNQ tomorrow. I hope it will go well XD
 
3
Q: Standardizing specific tags

ItamarG3We have the triview1 (these), which have a specific format. This question is about the effectiveness of defining a structure for questions with specific tags (like the whatnot-review tags). I have a proposition, and I wanted to see what others think of it. Firstly, as it's super relevant, what ...

 
Thank you Mr. Meta feed
 
7:46 PM
Fashonably late, as usual.
 
Classic
 
polite golf clap
 
XD
Oh my. I might mortar today astonished smile. pleasepleaseplease.... prays to the gods of SE.
hi @Scimonster. Haven't seen you in a long time :P
 
8:02 PM
@ItamarG3 Oh hello
 
@ItamarG3 I'm in the same boat :) I hope we both make it :)
 
@BenI. no you're not :P. You are on your way to epic. I'm just mortaring...
just 6 more upvotes. Time to get wiki-ing. knuckle-crack
 
@BenI. I liked your Answer.
 
Thanks!
 
With respect to to ?: operator, it is often called the ternary operator, as it is the only ternary operator. The others are unary or binary (referring to the number of parameters).
 
8:17 PM
@nocomprende I was particularly proud of that answer.
@richard THANK YOU. I was wracking my brain trying to remember that.
What would the unary operator be?
Or, for that matter, the binary operator
 
Long. I hope useful
0
A: Teaching high-level versus low-level concepts

BuffyTL;DR Build a world, let the students program in that world. This is largely a history lesson which, at the end, will give hints about how to teach students to become effective in a modern OOP language quickly. A deeper principle than Higher to Lower abstraction, however, is the principle of ...

 
With respect to functional. The C languages do not check/guarantee the code. However I once used a linter with C++ that was configured to do these checks (functions do not call procedures, or change external state).
binary operators a+b takes to parameters.
Now, can you give me an example of a unary operator?
Sorry I can not spell two.
binary operators a+b takes two parameters.
 
for anyone who can review wiki edits, you have 2 pending ones for your record XD
just.3.more.upvotes. Time to write a new answer. re-cracks-knuckles
 
@richard ++c or c++ or !x
 
8:34 PM
@GypsySpellweaver Actually c++. The increment is applied "after c". I think that Stroustrup actually thought about this.
 
post and pre increment.
 
So maybe B (an actual language) is --C
 
++i is super useful.
 
@Buffy language dependant
 
@Buffy Nice.
 
8:35 PM
Hmmm, language name actually.
 
scours tags for more tag wikis to create
 
@ItamarG3 Hmmm. you're wandering on my turf, son.
 
Please go to Here and copy the last line of the page, then send it here. Please?
Ellen's question made it to 4th place XD
should someone be interested, more things are up for review XD (Does anybody find this annoying? if so, I'm sorry and I'll stop it :))
 
8:59 PM
Not annoying to me. Annoying is finding blank wiki excerpts.
 
well, not anymore XD
 
Are you doing the excerpts or the wiki, or. Both?
 
my last 3 were excerpt only. Usually I do both.
 
If you haven't been there maybe some adjustments to
 
been where
187 rep today.
and I have three hours to get the rest.
XD
 
@ItamarG3 Better (much) to do both. tags with excerpts only are harder to find.
Tell me which and I'll take a look (excerpts only)
 
@Buffy I agree. But I have a template.
(ben approved already :)). I'll go make some more, shall I? XD
 
Let me back you up
 
Sorry to be so slow, using mobile one-handed while donating plasma.
 
I'm old, kids, what, who, is XD?
 
9:05 PM
look at it from the side. tilt your head to the left.
90 deg.
 
I know the trick, but nought is coming up.
 
the D is an open mouth, and with the X it becomes a laugh.
 
Hilarious concern?
Ah. Thought it looked like knitted brows.
 
That one, I got.
know too little about vocational training. Another?
 
9:08 PM
The new generation has to find their own emoticons
 
What's the emoji for "grumpy old person" and "get off my lawn"?
 
@Buffy want to review a new wiki? this time, I did both :)
 
I don't have the power, i think.
 
@ItamarG3 I have a feeling you're going to make it ;-)
 
if my latest edit is approved, I will.
XD
 
9:13 PM
Hmmm. To me getting to 200 is like hitting a wall. No more for you, kid.
But then you can have a nap.
 
@Buffy Agreed
 
capped. Lost 1 rep.
 
Congratulations!!!
 
because I gained 197, then +4 from edits.
@BenI. Thanks :P
 
At least my 3rd is safe for today =)
give me another that has excerpt but needs full text.
 
9:16 PM
You can have 3.
 
So we don't have to look at every tag to find them.
Names please.
 
That's probably the most important metric of all for long term QpD
 
databases done.
 
@BenI. which?
wow. @BenI., you reached one eighth of a million people. Think about it, 0.00167% of all humanity has been affected by you.
 
9:23 PM
There's some serious double-counting in there, methinks ;-)
 
nah. impossible.
XD
 
lambda done
 
still, Jon Skeet (praise be onto him) has a bit more impact,
2.75 percent of humanity has seen jon's posts.
 
Pointers done.
 
9:43 PM
I think I'll be off to bed.
29 days until the 90 day mark o.o
 
Good night, Itamar!
 
@BenI. Before I go offline, I suggested two synonyms. one for (newly created) and one for (also new). I don't know how to delete the latter, but the former is useful... IMO
time to go. TTYI8H (talk to you in 8 hours XD)
 
Well, i hope that the advertising people learned something: don't alienate half your audience. The educators have learned something: make women enroll in CS, for their own good.
 
"make"?
It's a deleted answer. People who can see it: huh? it got 3 upvotes but was deleted, as well as the user's account...
@BenI. now I'm off
 
10:02 PM
@ItamarG3 It's best not to create synonyms until there's a need for them. I don't see the need for the 2 you suggested.
 
@ItamarG3 What is the issue here?
 
@ItamarG3 Probably the user deleted their own account, which would also end up deleting all of their answers, good and bad.
Sorry I pinged you! Go to bed!
 
Actually, deleting an account makes their posts anonymous. They need to be explicitly deleted.
 
10:17 PM
The user self-deleted that answer
 
@thesecretmaster right, sorry.
 
What is the issue with it, though?
 
I'll reject them, if you don't mind.
@Buffy The issue with what?
 
Itamar mentioned the post, but didn't say why. I'm wondering if I missed something about it.
@thesecretmaster reject the synonyms?
 
@Buffy Nope. Good post, user self deleted then the user was deleted
@Buffy Yeah
 
10:23 PM
@thesecretmaster agree
 
10:42 PM
Hmmm. I didn't answer that question myself. About time I did. OK done.
Sometimes feels like a waste to answer a question for which a best has already been chosen by the OP. @EllenSpertus ref: cseducators.stackexchange.com/questions/380/…
 
11:31 PM
Women entered the field at the beginning in large numbers, because it was a job they could get. It was considered clerical and low status. Then with the advent of home computers with color graphics, men flooded in because they liked playing video games. If this is the explanation, I am not sure what to do about it now.
 
@nocomprende You know you avatar never seems to load. :D
 
11:51 PM
10,000 reps
 
@HenryWHHackv2.0 yes, it is there, just faint. It was auto-generated, and the one on the main site is different. I didn't touch either one.
 
@nocomprende Ok
 
Where did you get to 10k?
 
I have no idea.
I don't even have 1,000 reps on any SE Q&A site.
 
Need to rest, voice failing this weekend, need to teach this week. Have fun on the interwebs!
 

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