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00:00 - 11:0011:00 - 00:00

12:00 AM
So we could do that. We could use some blogging platform to share good q&a, and it's fine as long as we comply with the cc by-sa 3.0 with attribution.
 
@BenI. Somehow I just don't get the problem with mutability. It's how computers work.
It's also how algebra, et al. works
 
But algebra doesn't work that way
x + 3 = 7 means that x is 4, period. It can't suddenly become 5.
You see? :)
 
Thoughts on having a "CS Educators SE" twitter account? One of us can actually control the account and we all can agree upon good content to put there?
 
If it gets a certain # of upvotes, I think that that would be a good indicator
(perhaps 3?)
 
@BenI. Which "it" are you referring to?
 
12:15 AM
The question that we are considering tweeting
 
I love the idea of a twitter account!
I use TweetDeck extensively for managing multiple accounts
 
I don't think I have a Twitter account. Or, if I do, I haven't looked at it in at least 8 years
Does it make sense to make the Twitter account before we are in public beta?
I agree that twitter can potentially drive a lot of traffic for us, but I wonder about the logistics while we are still behind that login wall
 
Well, we should have places where we repost content to share it.
 
If we are still around in September, I will be able to drive a fair amount of active traffic here by myself
 
True, but it could at least stoke interest
It would also show SE that we mean business
 
12:21 AM
I agree that it can stoke interest. We just have to put both links into each tweet (the question, and the Area 51 link)
 
@BenI. But you can't upvote chat messages
 
... chat messages? I thought we were considering tweeting great Q's from the site
 
Oh. I thought you were saying whether or not we should have a twitter should be based on the upvotes on my comment.
 
No, I thought that we might eventually automate and send to twitter any question from the main site that gets >=3 upvotes
 
So I should make one? Or maybe @Peter should because he actually does the twitter, I don't.
 
12:24 AM
@Gilles Did SE make the CS twitter account, or did the power users there (you, D.W., Yuval, etc)
 
I'm happy to. I'll do it tonight.
Handing out Chromebooks at the moment, so I'm available intermittently.
Multitasking FTW!
 
I think @BenI. might want to wait until his question is answered, but I like the idea.
 
Which question? Sorry...might have missed it
 
11 mins ago, by Ben I.
@Gilles Did SE make the CS twitter account, or did the power users there (you, D.W., Yuval, etc)
 
@BenI. On one page we have`x + 4 = 7. Later on the same page we have x + 4 = 10. So, what is "x"? In truth, "x" is a place holder, and nothing more. Without that grasp, the student is always asking whether x is 6 or 3? How can it be both?
 
12:37 AM
Well, at any time x is either 6 or 3. It changes when it is reassigned.
 
So, it is mutable.
 
Yes. What's the question?
In a math problem you can reassign variables. It's confusing, but not against the rules of math
 
@thesecretmaster Relative to the problem mutability being a cognitive trap in CS education.
 
For the twitter thing, we should just share the password here with DH key exchange and some encryption.
 
Gypsy, when you have a different x later on the same page of your math textbook, it's only because the previous problem has finished. It's not the same x.
When we change a value in an imperative language, it is
 
12:43 AM
@thesecretmaster I gather that such mutability is also one of the pivot points when dealing with the imperative ⇔ declarative issue as well.
 
Turing made the Turing Machine
Nearly simultaneously, his Princeton thesis advisor Church made Lambda Calculus
Lambda Calculus has no mutability, Turing's machine does
The two of them got together and proved the Church-Turing thesis, which showed that their two (theoretical) machines were equivalently powerful
 
@BenI. What result can I get from either method, that I can't get from the other?
 
(and that all sufficiently complex systems were, as well)
None - that was the point - they were identically powerful
When the first computers were created very shortly afterwards, they were largely modeled on TMs, but only because that was the first version that someone figured out how to mechanically model
 
So why the debate about which to use? Seems as pointless as the debate between Intel and AMD.
 
But when we had our first high level programming languages in the 50's, they were FORTRAN (modeled after TMs), and LISP (modelled after Lambda calculus, with no mutable values)
The two languages came out within 8 months of one another
 
12:48 AM
@BenI. SE did. But they no longer do it.
 
Lisp became Scheme and Haskell and, to some degree, PERL
FORTRAN became C and C++ and Java
The question isn't whether they are equivalently powerful - they are - it's just about what is difficult about learning each aproach
Turing's model became more popular, so more people know it, but I don't think it's actually easier
I think it was just easier to model in a physical machine
 
Therein lies my problem, I don't see either paradigm as harder than the other: to grasp, to learn, to use, or to present.
 
Well, see what you think after you read my answer to Gilles question (after I'm done with it)
Back to twitter, does that mean that the CS twitter account is no longer updating?
 
That's the very one that got me going :)
It also helps me understand why I seem to like PERL so much.
FORTRAN + Lisp + Objects + freedom = PERL.
 
@BenI. It posted 2 hours ago, so presumably no.
I bet SE still runs it though
But if they wont make us one, why don't we do one ourselves? We can always delete it if they hate us.
Robert seems to be implying that we need more people now though, and so I'd like to just go for it. We can all share the password in this room by using DH key exchange and AES 128 bit encryption and then deleting the messages.
 
1:00 AM
As long as you can talk me through that in baby steps, I'm all for it ;-)
 
We could make it "unofficial" and just speak for a community of educators
 
I love that idea
 
@thesecretmaster The only possible problem I see is that "Stack Exchange" probably has some trademark protection involved.
 
Then they can tell us and we can change it. I don't think they'll shut down the site for it.
Obviously if they warn us then we change it, but otherwise I see no reason not to use it.
 
It's probably better to have it, as @Peter said, a community of educators, who happen to love CSE
 
1:02 AM
We're a community of educators who have come together over a SE. There are no legal issues there
 
So the name should be "CS Educators" or "CS Educators SE"?
 
The content is all licensed the easy way, so the content isn't an issue. Only the possible "official" implications when it's not. "SE" is best left out of the name.
 
I'd leave off SE
 
Regardless of this site, building a community of CS educators is important
 
1:07 AM
So lets do it!
 
Admittedly I'll be no help. The last time I used Twitter, if ever, was in a former life, in an alternate universe. All I know about it is that someone got rich selling it :D
 
Not "no help." You'll still be moral support :)
 
I just asked a lawyer, and she also recommended that we leave out SE. (With the caveat tht this is not even remotely her area of law, and she has not read the terms of service we are operating under)
She did give some advice that if we wanted SE in our name we could just ask Robert
I might have to dust off twitter for this :)
 
I'd actually really like to talk to him. So many questions! If only we could ping him into here...
 
Aren't there programs that allow multiple people to funnel into one twitter account?
We probably can, realistically, if we figure out what we want to discuss with him and get organized about it. He seems pretty open to talking to folks who need his input
 
1:12 AM
@BenI. Maybe. We could also take this as an opportunity to learn about DH key exchange and share the password like that.
 
We would just ask him to schedule something in at an agreeable time
 
If it's only going to "post" content from our questions, the account could be handled by one person, and we can just @ping them in here.
 
I nominate Peter or secretmaster for that. I am not fluent in Twitter. :)
 
@BenI. That'd be nice. I may not be able to join though, because I am still taking classes at school and I'm sure SE doesn't endorse me texting in class.
@BenI. I pass the nomination to Peter because I've never done the twitter
 
I'm happy to
I can handle all the managing of tweets and such since I use it quite a bit
 
1:15 AM
Contacting Robert is simple, comment on his answer in meta. cseducators.meta.stackexchange.com/a/13/104
 
I'll do that now just to show that we are being above board
 
Great! Send the link please.
If anyone wants to learn a really cool crypto thing, still google DH key exchange. It's pretty awesome.
 
5
Q: Can this site succeed? — encouraging more users and questions

PeterWhat can we do to encourage more users to ask more questions? There are so many great ones sitting in our proposal waiting to be asked. The definition phase brought up some great topics that could be asked as-is or with only minor alterations. A few examples... Best way to explain the differen...

See my comment
 
Better place to post the comment than the one I found. ;)
 
It's a response to RC's answer
(3rd response)
 
1:19 AM
Maybe you should mention that we've been having many discussions in chat
 
Not to be abused, of course, but that's a method of reaching any user that has posted. :D
@thesecretmaster I suspect he'll review transcripts before joining anyway.
 
@GypsySpellweaver Yeah, but just to give context to the "we" mentioned in the comment, it might be nice to say who "we" are.
I'd also like to know how "massive" this voter fraud was, but seems like it's a secret :(
 
1:34 AM
Well, in a manner of speaking, we have our answer. Robert already responded to the comment.
 
I did notice a huge number of accounts with a score of, I think, 51, was it?
And none of them seemed linked to any other SE, so I was a bit suspicious myself
 
It was weird to see "69.4% [committed to] only this proposal"
 
Yeah. The reason that we are here is because of the requirement for users with over x rep
(I forget what x was)
 
What requirement?
 
@thesecretmaster Some are even higher. Bioinformatics is 80.8% only to that proposal.
 
1:39 AM
Not 100% sure how this affects twitter exactly. Can someone confirm what this might mean?
 
It means that we shouldn't put SE in our name unless we ask explicit permission :)
 
From commitment to beta needs a score of 100
>The commitment score is the minimum of three scores:
>200 committers in total
>100 committers with 200+ rep on any other site
>commitment score, based on committers' activity on all other sites and how old the commitment is
@BenI. That and be clear, when we mention the Stack Exchange Network that we use the name properly, and don't imply there's any official sanction or support from SE for the account.
I.e.: we use SE, we're not SE.
 
We had 5 questions in the last 24 hours. That's really nice!
 
2:01 AM
@BenI. Should be 10 though... :(
 
Well, considering that the day before, we had 1, I'll take it :)
He's already hinted that he will give us an extension, so I can't be too too concerned about not making 10
 
@Aurora0001 I just tried out the tampermonkey script. A++ :)
 
72 looks a lot better than the 67 we had 24 hours ago :)
 
Yeah
But the important question is "Who's asking"
 
Gilles, Ryan, Ryan, Ben, Peter
Gilles is a first question :)
 
2:13 AM
It took me by surprise to see Gilles in the First Posts queue.
 
Shocked that he needed no editing, I'm sure ;-)
I was pretty excited about that, too
 
@BenI. I'm really shocked that the person who earned mod status on 3 (?) sites knows how to write posts.
 
Crazy, right??
 
@thesecretmaster ;P
Careful, you might get a polyglot response :D
 
Just updating everyone, the ads still need three more votes each.
And was Peter going to make a non-SE CS twitter that really likes this beta?
 
2:17 AM
He presumably still will :)
He might be wairing to hear back from Robert
 
Oh, true, nevemind
Would "How can I advertise my CS class?" be on topic?
 
I would guess not, but I'm not entirely sure about that - getting girls into coding is obviously a huge concern
Same for getting minorities, so... perhaps?
It might be a question for meta
 
That tends to be a problem for all STEM areas :(
 
2:32 AM
@BenI. Do you know the NYC specialized high schools?
 
Yes, some of them
Certainly by reputation, and some by knowing people who attended, work or worked at them
 
Have I mentioned my school?
 
You have not
 
OK, then I have a hint: It's hard to advertise CS at a school thats majority female artists.
Do you know the school?
 
If it's one of the traditional selective schools, then I have very mixed feelings about it. If it's one of the new bunch of schools, then I have no idea, because I don't know those.
You may have gathered from my icon that I am also heavily involved in music. I have graduate degrees from a conservatory and everything :)
I think I'm heading to bed... good night, folks!
 
2:46 AM
tt4n
 
Goodnight. I'm curious about you mixed feelings if you guessed the school right.
 
3:05 AM
We can continue this is the morning, but becuase it gives you very mixed feelings, I think you guessed right.
 
3:29 AM
Greeting people! :)
I am here!
 
Ain't cyberspace wonderful? You can be two (or more) places at the same time.
 
Yep
Nothing to review.
 
3:46 AM
Make a new wiki for one of the tags then.
 
@GypsySpellweaver Ah yes I should edit a tag.
Thank You! :)
@GypsySpellweaver Are you in?
 
In the room = yes. in my right mind = no.
 
If I wasn't a nut, I'd be a squirrel.
 
4:03 AM
I've been coding for so long that I practically think in code. That don't do so well with people IRL.
 
Ah
So you are a computer.
 
1
01011001 01000101 01010011
p x.x
 
He's gone
he's programming insane
Dude take a break.
ubuntu@ubuntu~$ sudo kill 741
I killed his process.
ubuntu@ubuntu~$ gypsyspellweaver
 
and know it's been restarted.
 
4:10 AM
systemd has resurrected PID 104
 
Hard time with my charger.
I should really get a new one.
 
Did you get it taped up?
 
I will find some tape
e tape
 
Shouldn't be too hard to find. Walmart has everything ;P
 
4:13 AM
tt4n
 
@GypsySpellweaver No I think I have some in my house.
 
Is that closer than Walmart?
 
@GypsySpellweaver I'm in my house right now.
 
There goes that excuse.
 
It's only a matter or time until the charger really really breaks.
Then in my case I will have to wait like forever to get a new one.
 
4:22 AM
What brand is the charger, and what are the specs on the label?
 
I can't move the charger right now.
I hate that.^
Or the laptop
I don't want to move anything until my laptop is full charge.
 
More like a miniature version of a desktop then.
How much are you doing with it, other than the browser, at the moment?
 
I am in this chatroom at the moment.
Nothing else.
It's a lenovo
 
You could throttle back the CPU, takes less power and charges faster.
 
AMD
g50-45
and around 6 GB or RAM
I have two more laptops.
 
4:27 AM
You are using Linux, correct?
 
Yes
Go on
U
B
U
N
T
U
LINUX
 
then do cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies and see what your throttle options are.
 
ok
Are you sure?
 
then pick the 2nd or 3rd lowest one, say 2000000, and type
 
I regularly use the terminator terminal.
 
4:31 AM
cat 1400000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq
that will only allow the CPU to scale up to that number, keeping it in low power mode.
 
I have to confirm that what you are telling me is correct.
 
Once you want to resume normal use just set it to the highest value instead of the 1400000
Be careful counting the zeros, though
Oh yea, the setting has to be done with sudo of course.
 
Oh yeah sudo
Don't forget sudo
 
user can read the values, but not set them.
 
Yeah I will do that sometime.
Are you sure it's cat and not echo?
 
4:34 AM
It's not perm. either. Reboot resets it.
You are correect, it is echo :|
 
I have to do that every time I boot. My FX62 is too old and runs hot, bad.
 
I was correct and I didn't even researched it.
@GypsySpellweaver You see if I did ran that who know what would of happened.
Hold on
 
Nothing would have happened.
I've made that error many times.
 
@GypsySpellweaver Oh well I was being careful.
Which is a good things.
 
4:37 AM
I keep thinking I should script it, but it's just a one liner anyway. and I seldom reboot, so never worth the effort and time.
 
ubuntu@ubuntu~$ rm -rf /*
ubuntu@ubuntu~$ sudo chmod -R 000 /
ubuntu@ubuntu~$ sudo cat /dev/random > /dev/sda
 
TBH, I don't reboot at all, the computer dies.
gypsy@galdrgard:/home/nexus/gypsy> dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1
:D Now just what do you suppose that would do to my machine?
 
@GypsySpellweaver I don't really know anything about dd but it looks like something bad. (Maybe kernel panic)
 
To my machine nothing. To yours kill the boot sector.
 
4:45 AM
dd is binary-safe datadump, byte for byte copy.
My boot device is /dev/sdd7
 
I should move to sda77KBJ2.
 
Wow, I just realised that the person who proposed this site can't use it :(
 
Yes he can.
He's just suspended on Area51.SE not here.
 
Wait you mean
:O
He's suspend here too.
 
4:51 AM
Also means his question won't get an accepted answer either.
 
:O
I have been suspended before.
 
His other accounts are fine, just A51 and CSE
 
@GypsySpellweaver Yep
 
Exact same release date. I wonder if the suspension was carried over from A51?
 
4:54 AM
Wait.. Nope that can't be. He did post a Q here.
 
That stinks though. He can't help the site, and he's the one that wanted it bad enough to do the proposal.
 
At the moment only the employees can suspend someone on this site as we don't have community moderator yet.
Maybe he was suspended by none other than:
But we can't say for sure.
 
It's possible, even probable .
 
Maybe it's Shog9?
He's in the shadows.^
Like @anonymous2
 
5:30 AM
Just created. I'll start in earnest in a bit. Want some feedback form y'all regarding timing, tone, frequency of messages.
from*
 
@Peter For the profile "pic" why not use the community ad created by @thesecretmaster?
 
I wonder if would straddle the line of what is okay for branding...would it seem like SE is behind the account?
 
5:45 AM
@GypsySpellweaver You changed your profile picture again.
 
I don't think so. We're encouraged to use the name, and that's not claiming we are SE or part of it, just that we congregate there.
@HenryWHHackv2.0 Boredom is a terrible thing
 
I've got a few pics of Rusty that seemed to frame well as avatars.
 
The community ad doesn't work with twitter's profile pic dimensions
 
What are they asking for?
 
5:49 AM
Twitter's are sqare
 
@GypsySpellweaver I like it.
Kind of
 
Or, wait for @thesecretmaster to get back and have him make one that's just for titter
 
Good idea. Let's get community buy-in on something that's meant for the twitter audience.
 
@GypsySpellweaver "private beta" But what what if someone saw the ad when the site is in public beta?
 
5:57 AM
If he'll make a new one, Change the text a big.
 
Do CS?
Like Teaching?
Join us on the
Stack Exchange
Network
 
We have to remember though that most people see very, very small versions of the profile pic
that much writing will be too small to be legible
 
Do you have a page where I can see a standard view of a prof pic?
Anyones page
 
@cs50, Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
Harvard University's introduction to the intellectual enterprises of computer science and the art of programming.
605 tweets, 29.7k followers, following 7 users
What most people see is about the size you see in the window right now
 
6:06 AM
so abt 64²
 
Yep. Not much to work with for writing.
 
no good
Better than I expected though.
@Peter BTW kitty needs a diet.
 
haha
that's Harvard's standard CS50 image
 
Maybe Harvard needs a diet too
 
touche
 
6:14 AM
@Peter I see one change already.
> working to build a professional community on the Stack Exchange platform.
should be
> working to build a professional community on the Stack Exchange Network.
the Stack Exchange platform is something they sell/license to others.
iirc
 
ahhh
good catch
fixed
 
So, fill me in here. From looking at the CS50 page, looks like you can one-box from other sites?
 
Yes. Twitter typically does that with links/images.
 
So your could tweet about the site, add an image and have that link to the site.
 
Yep
 
6:32 AM
Original size 500x100
That fits in the window I see on the CS50 page
Make that image link to the A51 page like the link in the profile does. Make a tweet that we're just beginning the process of building and that now is the time to help define the site and make it useful for CS teachers.
@Peter ^^^
 
Will do. I'll send it out in the morning though and retweet from my account. Since I'm PST, most of my followers are asleep.
 
Working on a little better image.
@Peter Better formatting of the text lines.
 
Definitely
 
That image will work through public beta too. just have to change the link when that happens.
Got the page bookmarked so I can find it again later :)
 
7:19 AM
I have returned!
 
void main()
 
@GypsySpellweaver Code
 
How long have you been using Linux?
 
 
3 hours later…
10:34 AM
@Peter If you want, you can have the Twitter account controlled from chat, like they do on the Literature site
 
How do they set that up?
 
I'm not sure how they did it, but I believe it uses IFTTT
Basically, every message from chat goes into an RSS feed for that room
IFTTT can watch for updates to the feed, then perform an action (like a twitter post)
8
A: Could we have the ability to control a site's twitter feed from a chat room?

GerryA remark for those interested in such a thing: Chat offers an RSS feed for any keyword/room combination. For example, here is RSS feed for the word "twitter" in the Literature room (see the RSS link in bottom right). IFTTT can connect an RSS feed to your Twitter account. Put the two things t...

If you need any help setting something like that up, just give me a ping
 
Good morning everyone!
 
I imagine that that is exactly what we need
 
A good morning :)
 
10:44 AM
Good morning :)
 
@thesecretmaster The Academia ad isn't working for me
Oh
Wait
Probably caching or something; it's fine now
 
You should upvote! Yay advertising!
 
I've cast all my votes on the ads; just need two more
I'll see if I can encourage some others to vote on them
 
Thanks!
 
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