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IMO not really. It should not have happened and "better safe than sorry" until all the details were known. eg why was the door not locked and who else might have had access. I had (unauthorised) access to a cockpit once so my view may be coloured by that.
 
chx
1:41 AM
Yeah. It's not the couple that is at fault but the open door.
 
 
4 hours later…
5:57 AM
@Berwyn I have not seen you for a while, why the low profile?
 
mts
6:32 AM
And a little SPAM in the morning: travel.stackexchange.com/a/81275/32134
 
6:47 AM
@mts I just told Heidelberg Genesis about it
 
7:02 AM
@GayotFow Am just really busy at the moment. Working on a little pet project
"how can I open my hotel room with my hand"
 
7:39 AM
great story
 
7:56 AM
wow
I mean, hey, good for him, but the fact that so many RFID cards are trivially cloneable is a real problem
 
would be better if he could get the programmer in his hand too. then he could just wave it over the housekeeper's masterkey
 
 
6 hours later…
1:49 PM
@Fiksdal, @Willeke:: Thanks for guiding me frame my Q. Surprised so many upvoted. Over in SE Android Enthusiasts only 3 of my 20 Q's got more than this , despite having a 9K rep there :)
 
2:08 PM
@beeshyams The upvotes are appropriate. The question fits all the descriptions in the upvote tooltip: "This question shows research effort; it is useful and clear."
BTW, there is much more voting on Travel SE than on Android SE.
IMO lack of voting is a big problem on Android SE.
 
Hmmm .... It means I don't ask well over there . And yes, I realised that people are stingy with votes there, not complaining but different culture. I have two announcer badges there on my answers, which means > 25 visited the link mentioned in the answers but have a single upvote. Sorry for being OT but couldn't resist
 
This chat is not very particular, we talk about lots of stuff.
Maybe the people who visited through your links didn't have rep to upvote.
 
Not 25 each = 50??. It's a culture thing, but if you see the upvoted of old timers, culture appears to be different, discounting the fact that votes accumulate over a period of time
 
or could it be that they weren't even registered users of the site?
 
@RoflcoptrException Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
 
2:22 PM
i see
I'm not even sure if there is a correlation between views and votes on other sites
 
I mean, if you're not registered, you don't have rep :)
 
@RoflcoptrException:: Thanks. That possibility didn't strike me. Anyway, generous (not overly si that it diminishes value) upvote culture is very good for site IMO
 
For Android SE, you mean?
Oh, ok
So you're saying that when there are truly good posts, they get decent scores?
 
That's true but what I am saying is that the culture of upvotes here encourages participation whereas there votes are difficult to get easily and hence doesn't encourage people IMO
 
Yeah.
Too many fair questions/answers on Android SE are left with 0 or 1 score, which is too bad, IMO.
If I get 4 or 5 score there on anything, I consider it a great achivement, LOL :)
Wheras here on TSE, it's totally normal.
 
2:30 PM
Exactly and that's not healthy
 
Yeah.
I think it's just what normally happens with that sort of large site.
Look at Ask Ubuntu, Superuser, Stackoverflow and Ask Different. They are similar.
 
I am not sure about SO and Android SE isn't that large, if you look at the active user vase
 
True.
I mostly see the same guys answering questions there.
@beeshyams BTW, here's a question about Tiruvannamalai. AFAIK it's the only one on the site about Tiru: travel.stackexchange.com/questions/76842/…
 
Will come back to you.. Just spotted interesting Q there
 
At Android?
 
2:50 PM
Yes. And i posted an incomplete answer, will need to work on it. Thanks for that link , I had seen it before. That's how I connected you :)
 
 
1 hour later…
4:11 PM
There is a guy in here who treats the site like it's the occasion for stand-up comedy.
And he's not particularly funny
@pnuts hurry up please
 
@Fiksdal:: This is the question. Just escaped being closed as being Android Independent thanks to mod Dan and Izzy - interesting vulnerabilities our devices have- commit what's really important and confidential to memory is my take
 
@Berwyn Need to deploy your talent for snappy comebacks
 
4:40 PM
@beeshyams I'm afraid it's over my head :)
 
Are you a developer?
 
@GayotFow Sorry, I had the sound muted.
 
@ Fiksdal - partially true for me too and thanks for you know what...wink
@Fiksdal - misplaced space above so notification may not reach
 
5:04 PM
@pnuts Right. Payslips vs bank statements
 
I'm interested.
 
Payslips can say what's coming in, what you get, they help show you have a job and stable lifestyle
So they are useful
 
Yup
 
But they do not show financial capacity
 
Not in isolation.
 
5:07 PM
Right. So that guy needs BOTH
Does it make sense?
 
Yes to BOTH - why not a bank balance to show funds available and payslips to show funds source (assuming a reasonable match)?
And if both payslips AND bank statements are required, yet again why the or?
 
@pnuts AH! That guy gave 6 months of payslips and a single statement from a savings account. Something is out-of-whack there. I don't care what he says, something is out-of-whack why there are no bank statements.
Also, the guidance doesn't say 'or'
 
@beeshyams I don't know what!
 
Everybody can dispute it, but there's a dodge in there somewhere
@pnuts you there?
@Fiksdal are you a developer?
 
@GayotFow I suspect there may well be a reason for the refusal (that we don't know) but what we do know (at 'face value') seems 'inconsistent' with the or being 'critical'. I was referring to the second bullet point at GOV.UK that has evidence that you can support yourself during your trip, eg bank statements or payslips from the last 6 months.
Change that to "and" and I would have no issue.
 
5:19 PM
@pnuts Yes, I agree, and remember that material is deliberately vague, and where do you see 'or'? I don't see it.
 
End of fourth line in my last chat message.
 
@Fiksdal: If you don't, then it's fine. :) I assumed you upvoted it (I am not solicting it),. I have an agile mind = I jump to conclusions
 
@pnuts LOL, I mean in the document itself! Nowhere does it mention payslips and what it does mention has no 'or' in it :)
 
I agree that the more detailed guidance does not even mention payslips in Section 2 (as far as I can see from a quick look).
Do you mean the refusal letter being "the document"?
 
@pnuts No I mean the supporting documents guide. It does not mention payslips
I can promise if he ever fesses up, there will be a dodge.
 
5:24 PM
Agree. Does that not make mention of payslips elsewhere on the same site rather unhelpful?
 
@pnuts yes it does make it unhelpful
Just like that Aussiette we had in here Saturday
 
Deliberately?
 
@pnuts Yes, the rules and the guidance is deliberately and purposefully vague
Everybody likes it that way
 
Of course bureaucrats do - I can even see some justification - but not everybody. I'd rather not be misled even where it is expedient to leave me a little uncertain.
 
Sorry I meant 'everybody' = everybody who participated in the consultation where the rules were hammered out
 
5:33 PM
Vague might be (/probably is) excusable but the above just seems wrong and that I am not excusing!
 
@beeshyams Haha, no I didn't because I didn't understand the subject matter. I only upvote stuff I can understand myself to be correct :)
 
@pnuts Are you saying it's wrong that everybody was in agreement?
Or that the rules are vague?
@pnuts also remember that before Mark Sedwill took over, the guidance was classified.
You needed a clearance in order to read it
He took over in about 2005 and stayed for about 2 years. He cleaned out all the corruption also
 
No, no. Agreement is good! The rules being (deliberately and with good reason) vague is excusable. What seems wrong to me is to advise eg bank statements or payslips from the last 6 months when what is required is more like eg bank statements and payslips from the last 6 months, or equivalent. And yes, I very highly commend the current openness (and seeming fairness) but I guess I must be greedy because I'd still like improvement, where possible/practical.
 
@pnuts OK, I see, you mean the wording on the SVV page that says eg bank statements or payslips from the last 6 months. It implies that the two are interchangeable, right?
 
Exactly.
 
5:41 PM
Yeah, they are not interchangeable.
They show different things
 
Am very happy to take your word for that but 'interchangeable' is very definitely the way it reads to me, and English is my mother tongue.
 
You can write them a letter
or you can write to your MP
but ILPA will laugh in your face
so will JCWI
 
Again am very happy to take your word for the last two, but still despite them for doing so.
 
@pnuts you need to understand that a decade ago it was CLASSIFIED material!
 
I have admitted, I'm greedy :)
 
5:57 PM
@pnuts LOL, ok as long as you're satisfied that the OP has some kind of dodge going.
You remember the Aussie girl?
When all is said and done it turns out she's mentally ill.
 
Re "the OP" 'satisfied' might be a little 'strong' - but I do have enough faith in "the system" to suspect the refusal was justified.
 
@pnuts that's fine then. They are nowhere near as whimsical and moody as people think
 
I think the Aussie girl was the one who wanted to be told what premise would work? (but have not yet rediscovered the actual post).
 
8
A: Should I skip UK altogether and wait 6 months before re-entry?

Gayot FowYou completed a YMS tour in the UK and have been in the Republic since then, and you contemplate returning to the UK but have reservations (well founded). To be honest, a British Immigration Officer is likely to see your premise as a contrivance and that you have a secondary agenda which you are...

it's her 3rd question about that same basic thing
 
I recall a TV programme you pointed me to where a Welsh woman and Indian spouse sought entry. They got it, just, when I rather doubt I would have allowed them in! The logic then seemed to be "doesn't feel quite right but can't put my finger on it" - which seems very fair!
 
6:03 PM
sorry, 4th
@pnuts yeah I remember that documentary. I would not have given the Moroccan guy a British newspaper, much less a settlement visa
She's 45 years older than him
I had a case like it but the woman was in Devonshire and the guy was a Serb. He was 19 and she was 66.
 
Yes, that (the Aussie) is the one I thought. I recall trying to stand up for her at least as far as filing returns v. face-to-face with her accountant was concerned :)
 
@pnuts I saw, but the REAL motivation is that she wants to be mentally ill with her bf. Nothing about seeing the tax man
 
Was he Moroccan not Indian? His demeanour seemed all wrong.
@GayotFow Agreed!
 
In that case he was Moroccan. Indian nationals do things differently from North Africans
American girls will use contrivances like that also
 
I gather American girls looking for marriage to Brits is quite common. Seems a bit odd to me!
 
chx
6:12 PM
we had, i think, a canadian waitress caught gold digging at the uk border
 
I think it is more common, they are in about 3rd place for female spouses.
@chx YES, well done for remembering it
 
chx
hey, she is Canadian :D
but also, that's when i learned of this amazing feat
 
what amazing feat?
There's a whole forum for American girls trying to land a Brit and move over
 
chx
yeah, that
that's amazing to me
Also your answer to whether the site is official got me giggling like mad
People on this site are random people on the net who say any random thing that comes to mind. :D
 
@chx :) that should quiet her down for a while :)
Random people.
But I still don't get how Joe Blow sees the site as an opportunity for stand-up comedy
That's not funny most of the time
 
6:22 PM
@Fiksdal There is a meta post that relates to when to upvote. I don't fully agree with the A - even though from Joel!
@GayotFow For me so far not even the once.
 
@pnuts It's a bit strange, no?
 
I pity him and the people around him.
 
To be a lurker who pops up with an attempt at humour every now and then.
I don't get it :(
 
He puts a lot of effort (types a lot) into it.
 
sometimes he writes whole essays across like 5 increasingly hyperbolic comments
 
6:28 PM
Rants against cars having previously suggested hiring a car in Paris for a journey that could be walked in 1/2 hr ???
 
@ZachLipton do you think he writes his own material?
2
Q: UK visit visa refusal- what evidence do we provide?

L JonesMy partner has now been refused four times for a visit visa over the space of 18 months due to varying reasons. I would like to know what evidence people are submitting as ours clearly is not effective enough. He is a student studying at a vocational college for a year and then has an internshi...

Four refusals
About 1 refusal every 10 weeks
 
I think of JB as a troll, who will always take the oposite position to those already posted.
 
@Willeke Importantly, do you find it humorous?
 
No, I find it anoying. Maybe I have been on the wrong side a few times but I have little patience for trolls.
 
@Willeke Is it a troll? Or just a fellow who wants to be entertaining?
 
6:35 PM
I vote troll.
3
But you can see, I do not say 'is'
 
@Willeke That changes things significantly
 
I have seen too many trolls on Yahoo Answers, hardly ever funny for one post, very anoying on repeated actions.
 
@Willeke On this site though...
what do you get from it?
 
Anoyance, I do not remember ever having thought his posts, (answers nor comments) were fun.
I have flagged one out of a series of comments (to be turned down by the mod,) as extreme over reacting.
And that is his normal mode.
 
@Willeke I have had that also. A flag is disputed
I wish I knew what was going on stateside
One site says Trump is ahead and the next one says Hilary is ahead!
 
6:50 PM
I think this is one that can not be called till well after the voting closed.
 
I tend to doubt that. I think the probability of the result being too close to call is fairly low.
 
@phoog yeah but you are stateside, right?
 
@pnuts Thanks, I agree with the answer there.
 
I don't want to jinx it, but given the current state of the polling, I don't think it's going to be too close to call
this isn't brexit, there's a ton of polls from groups that have a lot of experience doing political polls
but getting people to actually vote is still super important, and I'll keep making phone calls to ask people to vote until election day
 
7:06 PM
@ZachLipton Whoa, when I checked a few days ago, HRC was 8 points ahead. What happened?
 
Hilary by a wide margin. For my credentials as a Nostradamus of the 21 C see :)
 
@GayotFow yes, I am; does that have an impact on the reliability of my prediction?
 
@phoog yes it has an impact, you are embedded in the situation.
 
she's still polling quite well, nothing's happened
but it's not over until it's over, and people actually have to vote to get that result
 
@GayotFow sure, but does that make my opinion of the situation more or less reliable? Also, I'm only embedded in two states, which are both polling firmly in favor of Clinton. I doubt that I am any closer to the situation in important states like Florida and Ohio than you are.
 
7:14 PM
@phoog The BBC is shamelessly biased when it comes to US politics
 
@ZachLipton How do you call this polling well? She's barely beating a madman realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/elections
 
@GayotFow I've not been paying much attention to their coverage.
 
@phoog For example, I was driving around in Florida in 2008 and was positively agape at the number of Palin stickers
 
@Fiksdal are those popular-vote polls? It certainly looks like it. That site's electoral map shows 262 votes for Clinton, 126 for trump, and 150 tossups. 144 of the tossups, or 96%, would have to go to Trump for him to win.
 
I don't think JB is very effective as a troll
We have had worse ones
 
7:19 PM
@GayotFow And the BBC indicated that Palin was not popular in Florida, or what?
 
To have many stickers you can have many people posting a few stickers each or a few people who post many stickers each.
 
I think he is just a fool, in all senses of the word
 
No way to say what happened.
 
@Willeke I mean bumper stickers on people's cars
 
WRT JB, this answer is quite reasonable:
2
A: Cooking inside a hotel room

Joe BlowThe simple answer is, no, this won't be allowed in any normal hotel-hotel. Very simply, use holidayrentals.co.uk or airBnB.com to rent a "gite" instead. You'll save more money and it will be more suitable for what you want. example, https://www.homeaway.co.uk/p78239 Note that there's a categ...

 
7:23 PM
It is, not unusual for trolls to post the odd normal answer.
There are also trolls who only do it part-time.
 
And I still can't believe Nixon won…
 
Some we even expect to be off medication when they troll and on meds when answering normal.
 
(In actual fact I wasn't born yet, but that's not the point)
 
I can still not believe Bush won, either one.
 
@Willeke I try only to comment when I am on my meds
 
7:25 PM
it's hard enough to believe that W won the first time. But the second time, when everybody should have known who he was, that was shocking
 
I learned today that Donald Rumsfeld apparently popularised the phrase “kinetic military action”.
 
@phoog The BBC never mentioned her beyond a casual comment
 
I actually know people who use it half-seriously.
I also have a colleague who says things like “The fight got kinetic”…
 
@Fiksdal but if you go here realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/…, you'll get the RCP average, which nationally is +6.1. That, by American electoral standards, is a pretty big margin (sadly, because how can 40% of people say "I want that guy," but here we are)
remember that it's a state-by-state election though. the national average doesn't mean much at all
 
You can get more than 60% of the votes and still not win.
Which I think is not fair.
 
7:32 PM
@Willeke This will lead to a lot of upset people
 
@ZachLipton but the poll you link to is for a 2-way race, which this is not. The 4-way poll is perhaps more accurate.
Of course, the average there is still 5.8%
 
The UK system is called first past the post
 
In favor of Clinton.
@GayotFow we also have first past the post in the US.
No runoff, no proportional representation.
 
@phoog you learn something every day!
 
The electoral college system is a weird way to elect a president, but the UK also elects PMs indirectly, independently of the first-past-the-post system for electing MPs.
How many people voted for Ms. May for PM?
 
7:35 PM
Nobody, she ascended
 
(I know; that was a rhetorical question.)
 
I have a close friend who ran for MP of Erith Thamesmead
And I did campaign work for a London one
 
@GayotFow Close but not spot on, 199 MPs did :)
 
@pnuts My wife buys her outfits, as do many of her friends
 
It must be British English, I don't understand anything to this conversation…
 
7:41 PM
the conventional wisdom is that the 4-way poll overstates support somewhat for 3rd party candidates, while the 2-way poll understates it slightly, based on what people have actually done in past years
we'll see if that holds true this year of course
 
@ZachLipton @phoog Good points.
 
No clue what those other two are doing in the race except diluting the other candidate's potential
 
that's always the problem with third parties in a first-past-the-post system
 
@GayotFow Standing up to a two party corrupt system, maybe? I would easily vote for Stein. I don't care if she never stands a chance. I'd vote just for the heck of it. Not that I'm a citizen anyway.
 
@Fiksdal That's the EXACT reason I vote Yabloko, it helps stir up the pot and keeps them honest
But the American one affects me a lot more
 
7:48 PM
and since elections are state-by-state, it does depend what state you're in to some extent. If you insist you're voting for Stein in California, where it's nowhere near close, I'm really not going to spend much time trying to argue that you're doing something wrong. If you're in Ohio, that's a different story
 
It makes sense if you consider the fact that the election is a repeated game
IMAO
 
Every 4 years
 
@ZachLipton I'd probably vote Stein in Ohio just to say FU to everything. Probably the same mentality as the Trump supporters TBH
 
sure, but then you're just trolling
 
Not really, Trump was within shooting distance before the first debate and if you watched Fox News, maybe you thought he was winning…
 
7:51 PM
I wish it would be over!
 
@ZachLipton The argument goes that it's meaningless to vote third party because they can never actually win. But the reason that is so is because people believe that very argument. I'd rather give a single vote to boosting third party numbers and a candidate I kinda like than vote for a candidate I despise.
@GayotFow yeah, me too.
Changing the subject, I don't think Joe Blow, is a troll, he contributes decent answers once in a while.
 
@Fiksdal You might not be a US citizen but you sure sound like one of the milennials everybody is talking about!
 
@Relaxed I'm 27 and totally a wannabe hipster so that makes sense.
 
@Fiksdal It's the stand-up comedy routine that gets me
 
In comments the other day he said he was drunk. I think he might be drunk a lot on TSE. I mean he admitted it the other day.
 
7:59 PM
That's dangerous…
 
There might be something to that
 
Given the fact that he is quite active, at least lately, he seemed to be drunk a lot in general…
 
@Relaxed that's not what comments are for. I flag as rude /not constructive/too chatty as I feel appropriate and whether they are marked as helpful or not is up to the mods.
 
What is not?
 
Nothing wrong with being drunk by the way
I don't drink but between midnight and 5 AM I am on morphine
 
8:03 PM
I'll drink to that.
 
Same general thing
 
@Relaxed It's his business. We can judge the comments on their own merits. I flag them a lot, TBH.
 
I don't know, I don't think I said anything on that either way…
 
I didn't think about flagging them. Does it get the person in trouble?
 
Not per se
But if someone gets many flags, moderators eventually notice
 
8:07 PM
@GayotFow of course. If one's comments are flagged a lot, and the mods deem it a problem, they will give the user a private warning
If users don't change after multiple warnings, they can even get temporary bans.
 
We wouldn't want to get someone into trouble, right?
 
his answers are generally much better than his comments
 
I've actually gotten a private message from mods for too much extended discussion in comments, being asked to take it to chat.
Yeah his answers are fine mostly.
 
I flagged a fellow's comment this morning because he wrote something very ugly about Scottish people. The mods removed his comment.
I suppose he thought it was stand-up comedy also
 
@GayotFow Yeah, the mods are very helpful if comments are truly abusive or insulting.
There's a pretty low threshold
 
8:14 PM
you mean tolerance?
 
Yeah
 
I am not sure I agree
It takes a lot to actually get a ban
 
Pretty low tolerance for insults or even rudeness
Yeah I was taking about mere removal of comments
 
Is anybody following the documentary about Frankfurt Airport?
 
 
2 hours later…
9:49 PM
@GayotFow No, what's that? On TV?
 
I watched one about Dubai Airport that I guess might be similar
 
I watched one about en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurter_Kreuz on German TV once, but that's something else!
 
10:04 PM
it was a TV documentary...about a highway interchange?
that's extremely German
 
Yes!
That's why I still remember it!
 
10:29 PM
Highway interchange documentaries are awesome
but even better are the documentaries about highway rest stops
e.g. the one at brenner
 
@Relaxed Sorry for the absence, yes a TV thing, 6 part series on the internals of FRA
 
BBC?
 
@Relaxed @Fiksdal Getting a temporary or even a permanent ban is something serious, so probably you're right and the threshold is quite high for that. But if users' comments, answers or questions get regularly flagged, we contact them privately and remind them to be nice.

http://meta.travel.stackexchange.com/questions/870/rule-1-be-nice
 
The one they did on LHR was only 3 parts
 
10:40 PM
@GayotFow Thanks!
 
Get the one on LHR also
 
I am afraid it will be difficult for me to watch it, I think the BBC stuff is geofenced.
 
Worse than that (in theory). Even for Brits in the UK it is illegal for someone who does not have a TV licence to watch iPlayer (with some exceptions).
 
10:56 PM
@RoflcoptrException Thanks for clarifying and for the moderation work in general :)
@Relaxed can't you use a UK VPN?
 
In what sense of “can”? I don't have anything set-up, not sure I want to pay for one right now so I can't easily do that right now.
But I have a computer so I assume I could, in principle.
I actually vaguely intend to set-up a linux router to put my smart TV on a VPN and watch French stuff but that's a project for next year. If that works then maybe I will pay for a VPN subscription to have more options.
 
11:23 PM
Many VPNS give you a free quota every month
I've got one that gives me 4GB free a month. @Relaxed Doesn't last long if you're streaming HD, but should work for a single documentary.
 

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