@amWhy I call my daughters "guys" all the time.

@RobertFrost I know it's used informally by many to refer to or address two or more "friends/children/colleagues" etc., irregardless of gender. I rarely think twice about it, but that's like reading the 1776 Declaration of Independence, as a woman, and repeatedly telling myself "we're supposed to read "all men are created equal", as "all people are created equal". That was a cop out, growing up, because women had to wait about 150 years to be able to cast votes in elections,

and slavery persisted for a few generations, before folks believed that slaves should be equal under the law. You can't know what it feels, @RobertFrost, to grow up wondering if I'm counted or not, for the sheer reason I was a girl, and since then, when it comes to both the disciplines (practitioners) of Math, and of Philosophy.

@amWhy Well, in Hebrew if there is one masculine object (or person) in a group, the gender of the group is masculine. I'm pretty sure Xander is a guy, which means I can refer to the collective everyone here as "guys" and claim that it's just my head working in Hebrew. :D

I am pretty sure it changed recently to if there are more females you use the female version @AsafKaragila

@Holo I am pretty sure they haven't.

Sec, I will check

You are correct

@Holo Combative feministas like Merav Michaeli tried to push for that, but it never caught on.

I see

I think that even she dropped that at some point.

My hebrew teacher few years ago was Combative feministas so maybe she said it

@Holo My Hebrew teacher was, well, life, I guess?

Something like a decade ago, it was all over the place. Then they decided that it's not the battle they should be focused on. And rightly so. So everybody moved on.

But now now. We're pissing @user21820 off with all this off topic.

Alright, you're already trying to denigrate a woman advocating a reasonable approach, @Asaf, by brandishing her a "combative feminista". And you've merely proved my point. I'f I keep hearing this sort of crap on this site, I'll flag it violating the code of conduct. For gosh sake! That's like claiming any religion that believes in genital mutilation of girls is excused, because they're heads are working in such a mind-set. I'm out of here.

@AsafKaragila Well

So to all you people, get back to work on making the site a better place.

@AsafKaragila Oh great, now we have to deal with the combative AI's.

@amWhy You don't know who Merav Michaeli is, eh? Very well.

Let me quote you on this: Better call a moderator... :D

@rschwieb That's the future.

@amWhy Since it looks like you've thought about this, what's the best alternative to "you guys?" Like it's a useful phrase, and "y'all" or "you folks" though gender neutral don't seem right to use in some situations.

@MikePierce: I sincerely suggest you take this to another chat-room, if you still want to continue. I still think that such topics are not suitable for chat (as opposed to face-to-face talk), but that's up to you of course.

@amWhy I look at it like men just get lumbered with the generic term for "human" or "person" - i.e. "man", and we make do with that and get on with it. In the past "man" was taken to mean "soldier" or "worker" and would appear in accounts or inventories as a line item next to livestock and horses... Men: 1,000. Horses, 50, Cattle: 100. But because women are so super-special we made a special name for them - "woman" which encapsulates the special respect they deserve as the superior sex.

@MikePierce In some situation one post a link here asking for closure, then some other voted to close and when I linked on it it is closed but not yet open for deletion. Would that be the case?

But I seldom linked to post that is not already closed.

@amWhy It's right I can never know what that feels and when men and women alike fought for the vote for several hundred years, I agree with you there can be no valid justification to giving to to men a little earlier - and I would certainly have been one of the many men who supported women's fight for that.

@JohnMa Maaaaaaaaaybe. I don't trust my memory enough to say things for certain.

But equally you can never know what it's like to be the sex that's blamed for all the world's ills, to be the sex that, in general, is expected to lay down your life in the event of war, account for 99.9% of combat deaths, do the dangerous and harmful jobs, work longer hours, see less of your family, retire older, die younger, yet still have on average lower spending power.

← 30 messages moved from CRUDE

@RobertFrost Just give it up. Women now offer their lives to service in the military; you probably have no clue what it feels like for a mother to lose here son, or her daughter, to battle. Nor do know what it's like for all the millions of civilian women throughout history that have been raped by male soldiers, who felt they were entitled to torture foes and friends alike.

@amWhy I will neither give up the fight for equality, nor ask you to give it up, but it is a two-way street and I will no more stand by and watch the one-sided vilification of the male stereotype, than I would stand by and permit any other form of prejudice and discrrimination. I fully support your female privilege of not having to fight on the front line if you wish not to do so but if any woman wishes to take her place there, I wouldn't stand in her way either.

What is 'trash' for.

I don't want to squabble, your comments seemed to draw parallels between men and slave masters.

hah, if you get a message moved from a chat into here, you get invited?

@rschwieb I have no idea. Chat not appropriate for (or not wanted within) the room from which it was moved.

I guess

@rschwieb Looks tht way

@RobertFrost I never set out to vilify men. I set out only to ask some men who do not intentionally minimize women, but whose words and actions may be left over from previous assumptions they inherited. I respect any father of daughters, because I trust they want for their daughters a lifecourse free of others assumptions about what a girl or woman should be, or free of pressure warning them not to be who they are.

@amWhy I have the utmost respect for you making your way in a field dominated by men

These messages, @rschwieb had been "moved to trash" by user 21820, from CRUDE.

@RobertFrost Currently, in the US, no man or woman is drafted. We have an 100% voluntary force of both men and women. There is no current "privilege" only women have to not fight, or join the military. It is a privilege any man or woman who does not want to serve, to not have to serve.

@amWhy Yes but the female privilege rightly exists that in the event of war, it is men who will be required to step up