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6:18 AM
Deleted
 
Good morning @JohnRennie sir :)
 
@Intellex morning :-)
 
@JohnRennie Sir, could you please reply to my comment for your answer, which I asked yesterday?
Or may I type it as a new question if it's broad?
 
@JohnRennie can you draw a diagram of this question here.
 
@Intellex I saw that yesterday and was going to say something here but I forgot.
But anyway, yes, it is just like the energy loss in inelastic collisions.
 
6:25 AM
@JohnRennie No problem sir.
@JohnRennie I don't understand how is energy not conserved but the angular momentum is? Could you please provide an explanation for this sir?
 
Sir diagram @JohnRennie
 
@yuvrajsingh For which question?
 
@Intellex you understand how linear momentum is conserved but energy isn't in linear collisions. Yes?
 
That you asked.
 
3
Q: Angular momentum conservation while internal frictional torque is present

Cadogen WestSo this appears in a problem which looks simple enough in its context; It's something like this: Two discs, A and B, are mounted coaxially on a vertical axle. The discs have moments of inertia $I$ and $2I$ respectively about the common axis. Disc A is imparted an initial angular velocity $2\o...

It was this question.
 
6:29 AM
@JohnRennie Yes sir. But in linear collisions, energy is lost due to permanent deformation. But here where is the deformation sir. The energy is lost as heat, but in the linear case, it is lost as plastic deformation. This is why I'm confused sir.
 
Yes sir can you draw a diagram.
 
@yuvrajsingh It looks like a circular sandwich
 
How is spring work.
 
@yuvrajsingh That's a little bit of distraction introduced by the question setter. It has nothing to do with our question it just spins. And that's it.
:)
May be you can imagine that like, a spring powered toy
 
I think you have a correct doubt, but that upon what is your system like in a question it is internal.
So angular momentum conserved.
@Intellex
 
6:36 AM
@yuvrajsingh I'm asking why should it be conserved when there is a loss in energy. Yes it contradicts with the case of linear collision. But energy loss is of different nature in both cases.
 
@Intellex why is the energy loss of a different nature? In both cases energy is converted to heat.
 
Yes.
 
@JohnRennie Converted to heat even in plastic deformation sir?
 
@Intellex yes. In plastic deformation the energy is converted to heat.
 
@JohnRennie Ok sir. Are there any examples of elastic coupling in rotational mechanics?
 
6:38 AM
Basically the energy is dissipated as the material flows, just like energy is dissipated when a sticky liquid flows.
@Intellex I guess a torsion pendulum would be an example of elastic deformation in rotational motion.
 
@JohnRennie But there is no coupling there. Only the string and the bob are involved and remain in contact forever.
 
@JohnRennie sorry for speaking in between, what is the use of the spring, as intellex said it is only for confusion.
 
@yuvrajsingh Confusion=spinning the two discs which is not of our interest
or at least my interest
 
@Intellex well the coupling only happens when the two disks contact each other. If a system like the two disks you're only going to get an elastic coupling if there is somethign flexible in between the two disks that can twist without slipping.
If there's any slipping you'll get energy loss due to friction.
 
6:44 AM
@JohnRennie Hello sir, unrelated, is there any good book/ref to Functional analysis for Hilbert space and vectors?
 
That elastic coupling could be a soft rubber disk, or it could be a rod just like a torsion bar.
@AbhasKumarSinha I'm not a good person to ask about book recommendations as I'm out of touch with the physics literature.
 
@JohnRennie, Thank you sir.
 
@AbhasKumarSinha Have you checked the book recommendations question?
 
@JohnRennie hmm....
 
I think it's in meta. But I'm not sure
 
6:46 AM
@JohnRennie Didn't found any good ones...
@JohnRennie Then how you learned them?
 
@AbhasKumarSinha Introduction to Hilbert Spaces by Debnath
 
@AbhasKumarSinha I have never learned functional analysis :-)
 
That, s use by our physics professor.
 
@JohnRennie Then how you understood QM?
 
In my final year I specialised in quantum chemistry rather than quantum physics and that is mostly concerned with numerical computations.
 
6:47 AM
@yuvrajsingh lemme check...
@JohnRennie okay...
 
One of the best book is this, @AbhasKumarSinha Introduction to Topology and Functional Analysis by Goerge F. Simmons
I think I have pdf of it.
 
@yuvrajsingh found that on internet... :)
 
@yuvrajsingh What's your branch?
@yuvrajsingh ..?
 
6:53 AM
@yuvrajsingh Is Hilbert space needed there? (:P)
 
No.
But I read physics for fun.
 
@yuvrajsingh wew? then why they are taught?
@yuvrajsingh functional analysis too?
 
@JohnRennie, Sir, could you explain why the theorem of perpendicular axis is valid only for planar bodies?
 
Yes it is mathematical part so yes.
 
@Intellex pythogoras them
@yuvrajsingh ok
 
6:55 AM
@AbhasKumarSinha I know the proof :)
 
@Intellex then see it, Pythagoras theorem isn't valid for non-planer geometry
 
@Intellex lets say the object sits on the x-y plane and you wish to calculate Izfor sake of simplicity. Your infinitely thin slices also have tiny offsets from the x-y plane that need to be taken into account via the parallel axis theorem. This leads to a quadratic term in your infinitesimal which only goes away if the object is 2D
 
A 3d object is nothing but 2d objects stacked on each other. So why there must be inconsistency in applying the theorem to 3d objects?
 
@Intellex You'd have to integrate them by taking a small 2D section to get the 3D version... (integrations of this type are not always elementary)
 
If we can apply the theorem to 2d layers separately. Then we can find the moment of inertias of these layers and then sum them to obtain the MOI of the 3d object.
 
6:59 AM
@Intellex The reason is that although the laminas have the same z axis, they do not have the same x and y axes. So you cannot simply add the moments of inertia (MOI) for the x and y axes for each lamina.
 
@AbhasKumarSinha ^ No need of integration, normal sum is enough
@yuvrajsingh This is reasonable. Thanks.
 
No.
OK.
 
@yuvrajsingh I said in order to find the MOI of the composite, we just need to add the MOIs of individual layers without integration
 
No, as I mentioned you cannot simply add the moments of inertia (MOI) for the x and y axes for each lamina. The x and y axes for each lamina are parallel but they are off-set from each other and from the x, y axes you are using for the 3D object
 
7:04 AM
you need to apply the Parallel Axis Theorem to each lamina.
@Intellex
 
@yuvrajsingh Fine. I was considering the MOIs about the z axes only. Realised the factor of x and y after your message.
 
Cool:)
 
@AbhasKumarSinha Thanks for the resource
 
@Intellex Cool :)
 
Star mark my last comment @Intellex @AbhasKumarSinha
 
7:06 AM
What temperature @yuvrajsingh, @AbhasKumarSinha?
tell in absolute scale
 
@Intellex ..? temperature? where this came from?
 
Didn't, t get what you are asking.
 
1 min ago, by Abhas Kumar Sinha
@Intellex Cool :)
 
@Intellex relatively coolllll
 
Cool with respect to what
 
7:08 AM
@Intellex atmosphere
 
Lol, lol.
Cool, here mean good,
By me.
 
@yuvrajsingh and good here mean cool :) by me
 
OK.
@Intellex are you preparing for jee.
 
@yuvrajsingh 1
 
7:10 AM
Didn't, t get you.
@Intellex
 
@yuvrajsingh, I don't know what you read in cs
1 = true
0 = false
Boolean values
 
Ok
Which coaching.
And from which city.
 
psa
you don't really need functional analysis to understand QM, but it helps to understand how operators work
 
@yuvrajsingh ICI
@yuvrajsingh A city in India
 
Again, what does it mean.
 
7:12 AM
ICI - Intellex Coaching Institute
 
I am not healthy with code languages.
In which city.
 
Hello @JohnRennie
 
@user8718165 hi, what did you want to ask about doping?
 
@JohnRennie sir, when in an n-type a donor state donates an electron to conduction band...a +ve site is created...but it isn't called a hole...Its simply written that its immobile and localized...
@JohnRennie why is it so sir? Can't an electron come and occupy that empty position in the donor?
 
@user8718165 n-type donor states sit just under the bottom of the conduction band, so the difference between the energy of that state and the bottom of the conduction band is much less than kT. That's why thermal energy is enough to excite the electron from the donor state into the conduction band.
The electron can fall back into the donor state and neutralise it, and indeed that will happen at absolute zero.
But at room temperature the state is ionised due to the thermal energy.
 
7:21 AM
@JohnRennie yeah sir...got it but why doesn't it help in conduction?
@JohnRennie can't some e- from the valence band come and neutralize it in the lattice?
 
The energy difference between the top of the valence band and the n state is much greater than kT.
So thermal energy is not great enough to excite electrons from the valence band into the gap state.
At room temperature thermal energy is about 1/40 kT, and the band gap in semiconductors is typically of order 1 kT.
 
@JohnRennie sir I'll talk to you a while later:) I'll get some snacks
 
@user8718165 OK. Bye.
 
@JohnRennie thermodynamics.
 
@yuvrajsingh yes?
 
7:27 AM
OK.
For a while now I've noticed that if I take a cup of hot tea and pour it into two cups and leave it then both cups will cool faster than the single cup.

How is it that nature cools two cups of tea in parallel more quickly? It's still the same amount of tea but it gets cooled quicker if I have two cups
@JohnRennie
 
When you divide the liquid into two cups you have a greater surface area to volume ratio.
Since the rate of heat loss is proportional to the surface area, and the heat capacity is proportional to the volume, that means the rate of temperature decrease is faster.
 
once the container is at the same temperature as the tea, it will stop absorbing heat from it. After that, it will still act as a poor conductor of heat - but that is not a heat capacity effect, and much less significant than the evaporation
Right.
@JohnRennie
 
@JohnRennie hello sir
@JohnRennie okay sir...got it...sir another thing...
 
@yuvrajsingh the tea will be cooling by evaporation and also by convection through the walls of the teacup. I'm not sure how the relative rates compare, though evaporation i a very efficient cooling process so I'd guess it dominates.
@user8718165 yes?
 
7:53 AM
@JohnRennie okay sir...a few from the valence band are still ionized...is it sir? Don't they recombine with the donor ions?
@JohnRennie hello sir...are you working?
 
@user8718165 I need to work now for about half an hour
 
@JohnRennie okay sir...no worries at all :)
 
 
3 hours later…
10:42 AM
@JohnRennie hello sir :)
 
11:33 AM
@user8718165 hi, I'm free now if you want to chat.
 
11:46 AM
@JohnRennie hello sir...
 
@user8718165 hi :-)
 
@JohnRennie sir in an intrinsic sc, there aren't any allowed states in the gap so e- won't absorb a photon of energy kT and jump...right sir?
 
In an intrinsic semiconductor either:
- the gap is small enough that some electrons manage to cross it or
- there are minority carriers due to defects in the crystal
Remember that the energy of electrons at a temperature $T$ is something like a Boltzmann distribution i.e. the fraction of electrons with energy $E$ is proportional to $f(E) \propto e^{-E/kT}$.
So if the band gap is $nkT$ then the fraction of electrons that can jump to the conduction band is proportional to $e^{-n}$.
 
@JohnRennie okay sir...got it...let's assume ideal crystal, there the gap will be much larger than kT but after p type doping there will be allowed states near the valence band so more electrons can reach the acceptor state.
 
In $n$ isn't too big there can be enough thermally excited electrons to carry a current.
@user8718165 OK
 
11:59 AM
How does the e- know whether a state is allowed or not...I mean how does the e- know if it can jump to a state by absorbing a photon sir?
@JohnRennie yeah sir...got it...
@JohnRennie In the intrinsic case...it won't accept a photon of energy kT but after doping it can accept. Does the e- know beforehand that if a state is available or not so it will or won't accept a photon sir?
 
That's quite a complicated question. In fact I answered a question like in on the main site a while back. Let me have a look.
 
@JohnRennie okay sir... I was thinking about this for a long long time sir...but I never asked you :(
@JohnRennie yeah...got it :)
 
10
Q: How do photons know they can or can't excite electrons in atoms?

Denver DangThis might be a stupid question, but nonetheless, it has been bothering me. If you take a photon, make it go through some atoms in a solid, liquid or whatever, then you have the chance of this photon being absorbed by an electron, and thereby exciting the electron. This requires the photon to ha...

There. That is discussing individual atoms, but the same principle applies to electrons in bands in a solid.
I've just been studying physics for a long time :-)
 
@JohnRennie sir got it...can I ask you one more question? :)
 
Yes?
 
12:07 PM
@JohnRennie And thank you so so much for writing these great answers :)
 
Though note that thermal excitation isn't about absorbing photons.
In thermal excitation the energy comes from vibrations of the crystal lattice. The electrons scatter off these vibrations and get energy from them.
 
@JohnRennie okay sir...then how are they excited to higher states sir?
@JohnRennie okay sir...got it...I was thinking that after heating and collisions some sort of photons were produced XDXD
 
Electrons scatter of lattice vibrations and scatter off other electrons so the energy from the lattice gets randomly distributed over all the electrons.
It's because the energy is randomly distributed that we get a Boltzmann distribution and a small fraction of electrons can get enough energy to cross the gap.
 
@JohnRennie thank you very much sir...got it
@JohnRennie sir, one last question
 
But as I recall the band gap of pure silicon is about an eV
 
12:16 PM
@JohnRennie sir, its written in the book but I forgot too :(
 
And that's about 40 times kT, so the fraction of electrons thermally excited acoss the gap is proportional to $e^{-40}$ and that's a very, very small number!
 
@JohnRennie yeah sir...got it
@JohnRennie sir, thank you very much for the help :)
 
:-)
 
 
4 hours later…
4:06 PM
@JohnRennie please help!
 
Remember GRS QUESTION.
 
4:56 PM
@McSuperbX1 hi
 
hello!
 
You need to find the angular velocity of the rod when it's at the mean position.
 
so there is some sort of an SHM going on here?
 
When you know $\omega$ the centriptal force on the masses is $mr\omega^2$ and that's the tesnion in the rod.
 
@JohnRennie would it be okay if I work on this question further and message you if I fail?
 
4:59 PM
@McSuperbX1 yes, the torque is $k\theta$ and this is related to the angular acceleration by $\tau = -I\alpha$
 
I was at the moment working on some entirely different subject unfortuantely.
@JohnRennie Ok, I will give it some more thought.
 
OK, I'll leave it with you.
 
Thanks.
:-)
 

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