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12:22 AM
@sammygerbil when the mass is embeded then at t=0, I have to start from the position where the impulse halts
This would mean the spring is more stretched
Our system has changed too... From mass m it has changed to mass 3m/2
Would that mean this would become the new equilibrium position
SHM is scary.... (!_ !)
 
12:47 AM
If it does then I calculated the new equilibrium position and then did the energy conservation between them
So that means in every ineladtic collision the equilibrium position changes as the system as well as the energy retransfer take change?
 
 
4 hours later…
4:21 AM
Time period of compound pendulum is 2π √[(k^2 + l^2/ l)/g] where k is radius of gyration and l is distance b/w COM and suspension point. My book says the minimum value is when k=l. Why is this so?
 
4:33 AM
@Hema maybe differentiate
 
4:43 AM
When you differentiate you get
$L=√Icm/M { all in sq root}
And K about center of mass is √Icm/M
So they become equal
@IceInkberry how to change profile picture?
I don't see any options for that
 
 
2 hours later…
6:28 AM
@Abcd morning
 
@JohnRennie Amazing! Morning :) .
@JohnRennie I need help with "Huygen's principle to explain reflection and refraction"
 
OK ... ?
 
I mean could you tell me how Huygen's principle explains refraction please?
I am unable to understand my book's language of explanation.
 
@Mr.Xcoder about your question, in an getting the same expression
 
Hello! Yeah, pity textbooks :)
Thanks for taking a look as well!
 
6:36 AM
 
But my angle is coming somewhat 48° close xd
Is this right
 
/shrug We got ~39.805 xD
 
@JohnRennie ?
 
Sorry something has come up at work and it looks like it will take a while.
I'm not sure that diagram is really Huygens' principle though ...
 
Can you check this with your solution
 
6:44 AM
Sure, one moment.
@harambe Oh, your fraction is reversed. Should be $0.8/0.96$ or if you keep it this way, you may want arccotangent.
I'll send you my solution as well.
 
Hmm..... Lol. I was pretty sure I did it right xd
Please!!
 
Having internet issues, I'll send it as soon as imgur wants to work lol
 
No problem. Let me send in my solution meanwhile
 
@harambe thanks got it
 
No problem
 
6:55 AM
@harambe Here is mine
It finally got uploaded goood \o/
@harambe Spotted the issue?
 
We have taken different points for torque
Maybe check my solution
 
Ok sure!... Hmm, so you took the topmost point?
 
I took the COM
 
Ok, I'll check the solution. Working in the COM is more tedious because you only exclude one force, not two :P
 
Yea COM is more difficult. I think I may have done a mistake
 
7:07 AM
I spotted it right away.
The mistake is on the drawing.
lol
 
@JohnRennie are you free sir
 
@harambe What is the minimum angle with a vertical wall that a ladder (or a block...) can make such that it does not slip
 
@harambe I'm dealing with a problem at work. Sorry, but it looks like it might take a while ...
 
You took the angle with the horizontal.
 
Lol. That's why. Thanks for telling me
 
7:09 AM
So your solution is correct, you just solved a slightly different problem :P No problem!
 
Kudos
@Mr.Xcoder how do we change profile picture here
 
@harambe You mean on the main site or in chat?
 
Chat
 
You change your picture on your main site (in your case physics.stackexchange.com). Optionally you can then go to your network profile and Go to Update Profile Info > Physics.SE. Then it will take less than half an hour for your icon to be updated in chat as well.
Don't expect it to change right away, chat is old and slow :P
As far as I am aware, you cannot change it in chat if you don't change it on the main site
 
Okay. Got it
 
8:00 AM
Why do we want light rays from both the holes to meet at the same point P? I am unable to understand that.
I mean they should follow their usual path right? ...why converge to P?
 
8:36 AM
@Abcd There are many more light rays other than the two shown. Light spreads out in all directions after passing through the hole (diffraction). The diagram is looking at what happens at any particular point P, where rays from the two slits interfere. These are the only 2 rays which are relevant, all others are ignored. They do not deliberately converge on P they are the only rays of all emerging from the slits which reach P.
 
First of all thanks for replying!!
Now reading.
@sammygerbil But why does diffraction happen?
 
@harambe Bullet Hits Mass on a Spring : Yes if the bullet is embedded then there is a new equilibrium position because the mass has changed. The nature of the collision tells you how much energy is added to the system.
@Abcd That is a difficult question to answer. Could John Rennie handle this one?
 
He is very busy today.
 
I'm back!
Computers all fixed :-)
 
@JohnRennie Great! Hi !
 
8:48 AM
Huygens' principle?
 
@JohnRennie How does diffraction happen? How does Huygen's principle explain it?
Does difffraction just mean that any shape of wave after passing through slit becomes circular?
 
Huygens' principle is one of those ideas that are really fundamental but also very hard to get an intuitive grasp of. To some extent the simplest course is to just accept it and move on.
 
:O :(
 
I can try and explain, but I suspect you're going to wonder what sort of weird drugs I've been taking :-)
If you have a bit of spare time I can try to explain and see what you think ...
 
How much time does it require?
 
8:52 AM
Not sure ...
It depends on you really.
 
@JohnRennie Plastic has been placed on top slit.
I understand that r2 should shift.
But why r1??
 
Are you asking why the direction of the light ray $r_1$ changes in the second diagram?
 
Yes
 
The diagram isn't showing the direction of the light ray.
 
So??
 
9:00 AM
When a plane wave passes through a slit that is narrow compared to the wavelength the light on the other side emerges from the slit in all directions i.e. on this diagram the wavefronts would be semicircles.
I wonder if I can find a diagram of this ...
That's just some random diagram I found using Google.
 
@JohnRennie Leave that. I think I need better understanding of Young's interfernece experiment first to be able to solve questions. Could you explain that?
Should I send the diagrams from my textbook for the Young's experiment? They are nice diagrams
 
Those?
 
Yes, there are more like these.
 
The two slits both cause the light passing through them to spread out in all directions like the diagram I posted above. So at every point $y$ on the screen there will be rays from $S_1$ and $S_2$ that hit the screen at that point.
@Abcd yes, this diagram shows this nicely.
 
@JohnRennie Do the waves always become circular after passing through slit?
 
9:07 AM
If the slit is narrow compared to the wavelength then yes the slit behaves like a point source so the light from it spreads out evenly in all directions i.e. as semicircles.
 
OK, then?
4 mins ago, by John Rennie
user image
What is being shown here?
 
So if you choose some point on the screen at random, you can draw the two light rays from $S_1$ and $S_2$ that meet the screen at that point.
 
Ok, then?
 
Since the light rays from the slits spread out in all directions evenly there are always rays from the slits to the point $y$ wherever you choose the point on the screen.
 
Yes, agreed.
Then?
 
9:09 AM
@Abcd that diagram is showing the particular two rays from the slits that hit the point $y$.
 
(point P)
@JohnRennie yes
 
Oops, yes, sorry. It was $y$ in one of the earlier diagrams.
 
OK, then?
 
The electric field (i.e. the light) at the point $P$ is the sum of the electric fields of the two light rays.
 
yes
 
9:12 AM
So if the fields at $P$ are $E_1$ and $E_2$ then the total field is $E_1+E_2$ (all fairly obvious).
 
yes.
 
But those fields have a direction so they can be positive or negative. The field will be something like:
 
@JohnRennie Just a minute.
How can light waves be plane waves?
Shouldn't EM wave be sinusoidal function?
But plane wave is no way close to a sinusoidal function
 
@Abcd yes, the waves will be something like:
$$ E_1 = E_{01} \sin(\omega t + \phi_1) $$
$$ E_2 = E_{02} \sin(\omega t + \phi_2) $$
 
@JohnRennie But author has clearly written and shown "plane waves of light"
@JohnRennie I am talking about incident rays
Before entering slit
7 mins ago, by Abcd
4 mins ago, by John Rennie
user image
See the leftmost red lines.
 
9:15 AM
If the wave is travelling along the $x$ axis then the equation of a plane wave is:
$$ E = E_0 \sin(\omega t - k x + \phi) $$
where $\omega$ is the angular frequency and $k$ is the wave number, $k = 2\pi/\lambda$.
So a plane wave is a sinusoid.
 
But he has shown straight vertical lines
 
The lines he has drawn are the wavefronts i.e. lines of constant phase
 
Oh
@JohnRennie Then after diffraction, why dont they remain sinusoidal? Or do they?
 
Let me try to draw a diagram ...
This is the light rays before the slits.
The waves are sinusoids traveling left to right (towards the slits). The red lines mark the lines of constant phase, and those are the red lines on your diagram.
OK so far?
 
Yes those red lines are Wavefronts I guess
 
9:26 AM
Exactly, yes, the wavefronts are just lines where the phase of the wave is the same.
 
Okay, then?
What happens to these sine waves after passing through slit?
They should still remain sine waves right?? Because its still light afterall!
 
That's the light after passing through the slit. Now the waves spread out from the slit in all directions. The wavefronts are now semicircles.
 
Oh I see!
Then?
 
Suppose we single out one light ray:
If we take distance $x$ along the direction of the ray then the light wave is:
$$ E = E_0 \sin(\omega t - kx) $$
And if we look at the wave at time $t=0$ this simplifies to:
$$ E = E_0 \sin(-kx) $$
Which is why it's a sine wave.
OK so far?
 
yes
 
9:39 AM
Now suppose we have two slits, and we consider some point:
The light rays from the different slits have travelled different distances to reach the point where they meet (the point P on the screen in your diagram).
So or the two light rays we have:
$$ E_1 = E_0 \sin(-kx_1) $$
$$ E_2 = E_0 \sin(-kx_2) $$
And the total electric field at $P$ is $E_1 + E_2$.
Suppose P is the centre point where $x_1 = x_2$, then when we add the fields we just get $2E_0$ i.e. $E_0\sin(-kx) + E_0\sin(-kx)$ where $x_1 = x_2 = x$.
OK so far?
 
yes
 
But in the diagram I've drawn $x_1 > x_2$. Suppose $x_1 = x_2 + \pi/k$. Then $E_1 = E_0 \sin(-kx_1) = E_0\sin(-kx_2 + \pi) = -E_0 \sin(-kx_2) $
So now $E_1 + E_2 = -E_0\sin(-kx_2) + E_0 \sin(-kx_2) = 0$
 
yes
so it will be dark.
Right?
 
Yes, exactly.
 
Okay, so this interference experiment is easy. Thanks.
 
9:48 AM
So we get either bright fringes or dark fringes depending on the difference in the path lengths of the two rays.
 
@JohnRennie Why not intermediate fringes?
 
Yes, you get intermediate fringes as well. If the path difference was between zero and $\pi/k$ you'd get an intermediate brightness.
 
Okay, can you help with one question related to this concept?
 
Yes?
 
34 mins ago, by Abcd
7 mins ago, by Abcd
4 mins ago, by John Rennie
user image
@JohnRennie This is figure 35-10 a^ (the first one)
 
9:51 AM
Do you remember yesterday you asked a question about the position of an image when a glass plate was put after the lens?
 
yes
 
And I said that the effect of the glass plate was to change the optical length of the light ray, where I described the optical length as the number of wavelengths?
 
yes
 
Well exactly the happens in this question.
Remember that whether we get a dark or light fringe depends on the difference between the two path lengths $x_1$ and $x_2$
 
Please explain how to solve it
 
9:55 AM
The $1\lambda$ bright fringe is the point where the optical path lengths differ by exactly $\lambda$ i.e. $r_2 - r_1 = \lambda$
OK so far?
 
@JohnRennie I think that's only for inital case
 
Initially - on the left diagram.
 
initial*
yes, $\dfrac{\Delta L}{\lambda}= \text{path length difference} = 1$ (initially)
 
If you look at the right diagram and just measure the distances ignoring the presence of the slab then obviously $r_1 = r_2$
So $r_2 - r_1 = 0$ not $1\lambda$. That means this isn't the position of the $1\lambda$ fringe.
 
???
How can both rays change just because of plastic on single slit?
 
10:05 AM
Are you asking why the bottom ray in the left diagram changes direction when we put the slab in the path of $r_2$?
 
Yes
 
It doesn't. Remember earlier when we talked about this?
 
Where?
 
The slight passing through $S_1$ spreads out in all directions. The right diagram shows a different ray.
1 hour ago, by John Rennie
Are you asking why the direction of the light ray $r_1$ changes in the second diagram?
The right diagram is showing a different ray
 
@JohnRennie Oh earlier you didnt say that right diagram shows different ray so my confusion was not cleared. Sorry.
@JohnRennie Oh okay, then?
So finally $\Delta L = \text{path length difference} =0$
 
10:09 AM
So in the right diagram if we just measure the distances ignoring the presence of the slab then obviously $r_1=r_2$ and $\Delta L = 0$.
 
Yes, then?
 
But what the slab does is increase the optical length of $r_2$
Remember that the optical length is the number of wavelengths
If you take some distance $d$ in air then the number of wavelengths in this distance is $d/\lambda$
But in glass with refractive index $n$ the wavelength is reduced to $\lambda/n$
So if you take some distance d in glass then the number of wavelengths in this distance is $nd/\lambda$.
Making sense so far?
 
@JohnRennie yes
 
So how much does a glass slab of thickness $d$ increase the optical path?
Well it's just $nd/\lambda - d/\lambda = (n-1)d/\lambda$
 
yes
 
10:17 AM
In the right hand diagram we want the slab to increase the optical path of $r_2$ by $\lambda$. That way we'll get $r_2 - r_1 = \lambda$ and we get the $1\lambda$ fringe.
 
@sammygerbil okay
 
@JohnRennie Btw how will we know if 1 lambda fringe has shifted up or is it just the 0 lambda one?
Dont all fringes look alike?
 
@harambe **SHM is scary ... ** : All such problems are solvable with your level of understanding, if you approach them methodically.
(1) Calculate KE of block after collision. (2) Use conservation of energy to find highest point reached Q. (3) Calculate new equilibrium position O which depends on new mass M. (4) Amplitude of oscillation is distance OQ=A.
 
@Abcd Yes, all fringes look alike so if you just throw in the slab and look at the pattern there isn't any way to know which fringe is which.
 
(5) New angular frequency is $\omega'=\sqrt{k/M}$. (6) New equation of motion is $y=A\sin(\omega' t+\phi)$ measured from the new equilibrium point O. $\phi$ can be found from initial point P where $t=0$ : known distance $OP=-A\sin\phi$.
 
10:21 AM
@sammygerbil let me try again with these steps
 
@JohnRennie That's the prime reason this question didn't make sense to me at first.
 
@Abcd the question is a bit artificial. It assumes you know which fringe is which.
I suppose you could start with a very thin slab so it only moved the fringes very slightly. Then gradually increase the thickness of the slab. That way you could watch the $1\lambda$ fringe move and keep track of it.
 
@JohnRennie Is $\text{optical length difference = phase difference + path length difference} $?
 
Remember that I wrote the light (at $t=0$) as $E = E_0 \sin(-kx)$ ?
 
10:26 AM
yes
 
Well the argument to the sine function is the optical path length i.e. $-kx$ in this case.
$k = 2\pi/lambda$ so $kx = 2\pi x/\lambda$
i.e. the number of wavelengths times $2\pi$
 
$\dfrac{\phi}{2\pi}= \dfrac{L}{\lambda} \implies \phi = \dfrac{2\pi L}{\lambda}$
 
Some people include the factor of $2\pi$ while others will just use the number of wavelengths. It doesn't matter as long as you're consistent.
@Abcd Yes, the optical path length and the phase are the same thing (possibly with a factor of $2\pi$)
 
10:40 AM
@JohnRennie Okay, leave that. Please tell me if I am saying the correct thing or not:
 
@sammygerbil the expression is weird. I am getting quadratic equation for height $H$ from collosion position
 
m=1 fringe is the fringe for which $\Delta L = m\lambda $ and $m =1$
 
@Abcd Yes, correct
 
Is it the same for you
 
@JohnRennie $\Delta L $ is the difference in the lengths that the two light rays would have to traverse. Right?
 
10:42 AM
@harambe I haven't done the calculation yet. Can you solve the quadratic?
 
$\Delta L$ is the difference in the optical path lengths that the two light rays would have to traverse
 
@sammygerbil instead of doing energ equation
Can't I calculate the equilibrium position first
Calculate distance of collision point from equilibrium
 
@JohnRennie But in my book's derivation of $\Delta L = d\sin \theta$, he hasn't said anything like that.
 
And use the formulae v=w√$A^2$ -$x^2$
I know the velocity at the collision point too
 
@harambe Yes actually that would be a good idea. Then you can use distance from the new eqm position in your calculations.
 
10:44 AM
Got it
 
@JohnRennie I am unable to strengthen my concept of optical path length actually.
 
@Abcd the optical path length is basically the same as the phase
When you add two waves, how they add depends on the difference in the phase. If they are in phase they add while if they are $\pi$ out of phase they subtract leaving zero.
 
My book defines two things:
1) Phase difference
2) Path Length difference
And my book says:
Path length difference = d sin theta for slit experiment.
:46645792 No, it defines phase difference for two waves that will have to traverse same length L as: $N_2 - N_1 = \dfrac{L}{\lambda}(n_2 - n_1)$
 
What are $N$ and $n$?
 
N is number of wavelengths
 
10:50 AM
@sammygerbil done
 
n is refractive index
 
Refractive index? Why are there two different refractive indexes?
 
@harambe Just noticed that the options for Q15 (which follows on from Q14) make use of only one of the options in Q14. Therefore you can get the correct answer to Q14 without any calculations at all!
 
@JohnRennie He is finding the phase difference between two light waves in different mediums traversing same length
 
Lol. Exam cheat XD!!
 
10:52 AM
I am totally confused by this sea of similar terms!
 
The optical path length is measured in wavelengths, and if you have different media with different refractive indexes then the wavelength of the light wll be different in the different media.
$nL/\lambda$ is just the number of wavelengths in a length $L$ of the medium with refractive index $n$.
 
@JohnRennie What's the mathematical formula of optical path length?
 
It depends on what's in the path. In the question that started all this the optical path length was changed by putting a slab of glass in the ray.
The optical path length is the number of wavelengths.
So the formula is the formula that calculates the number of wavelengths.
 
Okay, got it! Thanks a lot!
 
11:07 AM
@JohnRennie ... Free?
 
@NehalSamee yes
 
@sammygerbil got both of these. The next one was just equations
I am getting somewhat less confused of SHM now
 
good
 
@JohnRennie I clearly don't remember the problem... But it was like a bird collides with a verticaly pivoted stick with a velocity and remains attached. Then the stick rotates... There used to be couple of expressions summing up to give a total moment of inertia. Could you elaborate it?
 
If the bird can be treated as a point mass the the moment of inertia of the bird is just $mr^2$, where $m$ is the mass of the bird and $r$ is the distance from the centre of rotation.
 
11:12 AM
@JohnRennie What would be the moment of inertia of the whole rod and bird system?
 
And moments of inertia just add. So the total moment of inertia is the moment of inertia of the stick plus $mr^2$.
 
And yes, the bird is attached below the top of stick
@JohnRennie And yes, the bird is attached below the top of stick
Not at the top end
 
@NehalSamee so $I_{bird} = m_{bird} r^2$ where $r$ is the distance to the bird.
 
@JohnRennie Oww... I thought we would advance like finding the moment of inertia for bird and rod system for the too end and add it with the inertia of rest of rod...
 
@NehalSamee Is the rod hinged at the end?
 
11:18 AM
@JohnRennie yes
 
So the moment of inertia of the rod is $ML^2/3$
So the total moment of inertia is:
$$ I = \frac{ML^2}{3} + mr^2 $$
 
@JohnRennie OK... Got it... Thank you...
 
@JohnRennie What would happen if though one slit we send blue and through another red?
 
@JohnRennie one more thing... If multiple charges are brought together , is there any electrical property conserved?
 
@Abcd If the two light rays have the same frequency then the phase difference between them is only a function of their relative optical path lengths i.e. the phase difference doesn't change with time.
 
11:24 AM
@JohnRennie Didn't get.
 
Will we see mixture of blue and red.. Like secondary colours?
 
@Abcd for a light ray $E = E_0 \sin(\omega t - kx)$ and the argument to the sine function $\omega t - kx$ is the phase. OK so far?
 
Yes
 
If we have two light rays wth different lengths but the same frequency then the phase difference is:
$$ \Delta \phi = (\omega t - k x_1) - (\omega t - k x_2) = -k(x_1 - x_2) $$
So the phase difference is only a function of $x_1$ and $x_2$. It is not a function of time.
 
Okay so??
 
11:29 AM
But if the two light rays have different colours then they have different frequencies. In that case the phase difference is:
 
Noo
They have same frequency
Different wavelengths
 
@Abcd frequency is $c/\lambda$. If they have different wavelengths then they have different frequencies.
 
Oh sorry confused two different things.
@JohnRennie yes
 
$$ \Delta \phi = (\omega_1 t - k x_1) - (\omega_2 t - k x_2) = t(\omega_1-\omega_2) - k(x_1 - x_2) $$
So with different colours the phase difference is a function of time.
 
Oh
 
11:33 AM
That means our interference pattern fluctuates with a frquency $\omega_1 - \omega_2$
 
so will different combinations of red and blue be seen?
 
And at optical frequencies that happens so fast the eye can't see it. So you don't see an interference patern at all. Just a smooth mixture of red and blue light.
 
@JohnRennie lets talk about fringe with constructive interference i.e. $\Delta \phi = 2\pi n$
Please explain what will be seen in such fringes.
 
You won't see any fringes
You write $\Delta\phi = 2\pi n$, but with light of different frequencies $\Delta\phi$ is a function of time so it is continuously changing.
That means the fringes are continuously moving.
 
Will we see violet screen?
 
11:39 AM
Yes. Just a static violet colour. No fringes.
 
@NehalSamee if multiple charges are brought, I don't think system can be stable
 
@JohnRennie Why hasn't he included $kx$ term in equations-> $35-20,21$
 
We write the phase as $\omega t - kx$
 
yes
 
So at the point $P$ the two phases are $\omega t - kx_1$ and $\omega t - kx_2$
But if we stay at point $P$ the distances $x_1$ and $x_2$ are constants, because they are the distances from the slits to the point P. So the two phases are both just:
$$ \phi = \omega t + constant $$
where the constant is different for the two rays.
 
11:46 AM
Oh okay got it
 
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