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02:00 - 12:0014:00 - 23:00

02:48
@JosephWeissman Interesting... although I'm not sure it necessarily follows. E.G., I would consider my body my own property, yet I don't see how giving up all privacy gives up my body rights. Even if you are talking real estate alone... not sure it necessarily follows. I'll have to think on it a bit
03:07
@stoicfury I think that from a rational point of view, privacy is not something that should really be necessary (at least not for any of the traditional reasons). Like you said, we shouldn't really be embarrassed about the things we do, though I tend to think so because we shouldn't do things that are embarrassing to begin with.
What I mean is, I do think there are some things that are embarrassing, but they are so because they generally aren't the kinds of things you should be doing. So, a rational person (and consequently in my view, a good person) wouldn't even do anything to be embarrassed about.
However, I don't really think it's a good thing for people to have privacy if they're using it to hide those kinds of things... it ends up being a catch-22: the right to privacy extends insofar as it does not hide bad things and make you look better than you are, but so long as you have that right, you have no reason to keep anything private
Hi commando
...you can tell this isn't a particularly fleshed out model, just some very rudimentary thoughts
Hey Fabian
At least some free time :D
no kidding, I just got off university, on Thanksgiving break
I am about to finish this semester, just finals missing. :(
03:14
yeah, I have a week of classes and then finals
This was my last day of class
03:29
@commando during WW2, I heard, there was an issue about data that Poland was collecting.
Specifically, it covered the religion of a household/family/person, which in turn made it easy for the Nazis to prosecute them.
So, you have to really wonder how accessible you make that data, and the potential for abuse.
Ah, that's a good point; I suppose privacy is ideally unnecessary when you have the ideal government as well
Exactly.
Also, unrelated to government, society as a whole cannot accept a privacy free world. To prove my point: would you discuss openly your sexual habits? Would you discuss your dionistic moments?
There are many attitudes that have no negative impact on others, yet it is frowned upon from society.
Polyamory/Slut shaming/LGBT/Fetishes/Political Preference/Faith/Treatment of others/
Yes, unfortunately society is inherently unideal, but in a Platonically perfect (i.e. impossibly flawless) world, none of those problems would exist
Well, I would like to live there, where can I get my plane ticket?
I have been thinking, in the same political thing, would a 100% tax on all outgoing value from a community be a good thing?
@FabiánH.jr. Sleep :)
03:37
Per instance, if the WallMarts in Mexico City make $1B in revenue in Mexico City, be forced to either reinvest it in Mexico City or get it charged as tax.
Also, I honestly have no clue... unfortunately I have never had much of an interest in economics, and I consequently really don't know what is best financially
Damn I must get my language straight.
Wll, I will leave it in the open then.
commando, any cool TV Show or movie that has enlighten you?
What should I watch right now?
that's a good idea, I'm still waiting for the flood of people to respond to stoicfury's mass call
I didn't got a notification BTW.
I haven't had the opportunity to watch much recently... the only suggestion I have would probably make you laugh at me
03:40
Remember the no privacy talk we had some few lines ago?
:P you'd be able to figure it out from my Phil.SE profile anyway
I am completely free, just as stoicfury.
I've gotten really deep into My Little Pony recently
Notes From Underground
Oh that, don't worry. I don't judge you by that.
lol that's a book, and certainly an enlightening one
03:41
Though I am searching more of a documentary/real life based movie sort of thing.
well I'm gad. Honestly it's helped me become more open-minded
that's a tough one
commando, have you seen twogag.com ?
NVM I will watch Youtube.
no actually, but it looks pretty cool
what will you watch?
SciShow
CrashCourse, no clue.
I have no idea what those are... I really need to stop wasting my life watching PewDiePie
03:45
I have no clue whatPewDiePie is, I should stop ignoring my social life.
do you know Tobuscus?
Yes :D
I am not so hopeless after all
well I'm not really surprised you don't know pewdie, I only noticed him a couple weeks ago
he's basically Swedish Tobuscus (over-generalizing) with almost 3 million subscribers :O
Oh he
Yeah I have seen it xD
Thefunny gaming montage,
 
1 hour later…
04:49
@stoicfury: I asked about your comment on privacy because I have all my life found it difficult to care about mine--and not for a lack of "un-boring" activity. I don't experience the same kind of normal social tension and shame that most people seem to. I do have "ingrained morals"; it isn't just apathy. You made me realize (I had one of those epiphanies about obvious things) that it is possible to be very open, and yet value privacy.
Most counters I've heard hitherto were made by "private people", and I found it difficult to relate to their shyness--I certainly never felt that their shyness should be groomed and tickled over societal security interests. It was an important, albeit obvious thing to have dawned on me, thanks. P.S. My profile links to my facebook, which is publicly accessible. Yep.
05:03
@yozloy: Your cat hat meets with my approval.
05:13
@stoicfury I don't think there would be no privacy in an ideal society; it seems crucial to some sort of issue of identity. That's why denying basic privacy is an effective torture method. We weren't going so far in our hypothetical as to deny basic privacy, but it seems that some non-negligible degree of privacy is essential to maintaining the ego. Anyone more legitimately versed in psychology care to add to this?
06:08
Just realized that new facebook regulations require one to have an account before viewing publicly accessible profiles. That's annoying and useless.
 
3 hours later…
09:21
@FabiánH.jr. Yes, yes I would openly discuss my sexual habits and anything else about myself with anyone in principle. I am ashamed of nothing about myself or what I do. In practice I suppose I might keep secrets only because people aren't wise enough to understand that the things we do are things to be ashamed of. For example, if I was applying to a job in the Bible belt I might hide the fact that I'm an outspoken atheist... this is because I wouldn't want unfair treatment from those who would
think poorly of me because of it. That way of thinking (that atheists are "underisable" people), of course, is foolish and naive. So in today's world I value privacy but I wish for a world where we shouldn't have to.
@stoicfury How about the digestion and consequent excretion of food?
It's an ability one hopes one has on Thanksgiving :P
I mainly meant excretion...
The digestion is naturally obscured by our bodies.
Sorry, I'm not sure what you are referring to.
The ingestion is admittedly pleasant in a socials etting.
09:30
Does that have something to do with privacy?
Well, yes.
Do you want people to know all the things about you that are less attractive?
Know and see.
I want to live in a world where people wouldn't judge me for them.
Do you object to cameras in public restrooms?
Judge?
In principle, no.
Isn't disgust a natural, physical reaction?
09:31
It can be, but it doesn't have to be inherently so. It can be retrained.
That is difficult.
We can learn to appreciate or simply not be offended/disgusted by things.
We are not in all respects rational beings.
You cannot always will yourself to find someone an attractive sexual partner.
Sure. That is why I'm saying "I want to live in a world...". I never said it is that world right now. :P
Heh.
09:33
I don't understand that latter example
So this world excludes the normal DNA composition of human beings?
It includes wisdom
learning to appreciate things for what they are
in the grand scheme of things
Most people are digusted by boogers and poop when they are little, but they get over it. Same concept.
@stoicfury Suppose you have a date, and your date suffers from a temporary disease that causes all sorts of unpleasant-looking features to appear on the skin of her or his neck. They would be finally cured in a couple of weeks. Suppose you knew this. Would you be able to will yourself to be attracted to her equally with or without her/his scarf and turtleneck?
@stoicfury Um people get over that?
It's not about "willing" yourself to be attracted to them
It's simply about not judging them negatively for it
But what is judging, and why is it relevant?
09:36
Using my atheism example above: I never said my boss/recruiter would have to like me -- he just ought to not hate me
If I just don't feel the attraction, the date is a failure, and both parties lose out.
@stoicfury Absolutely.
@Cerberus Judging is relevant because that's part of why people value privacy -- they don't want people to find out certain things they think others will judge them for
I am just bringing up examples of when even the most rational, enlightened perspective is not enough to counter the disadvantages that complete and utter transparency may sometimes give you, as with the turtleneck.
@stoicfury Yes, it is part of it.
Sure; I have yet to read one that offers any real disadvantage
I was just trying to circumvent that by giving a slightly different reason to value privacy.
09:39
Sure, I don't think there's anything wrong with valuing privacy, I certainly do
@stoicfury "One", as in an instance of applied transparency?
I just wish I didn't have to value it :P
Heh.
I don't know.
Do you feel that the truth v. something else is always better?
what do you mean?
As in "does this dress make me look fat?"?
Is lying or obfuscating the truth not better, sometimes?
09:40
Well, in today's world sure
Ideally, no, I don't think so
Except when to save a life or something
Like lying to NAZI's who are searching for jews you have hidden in your house
but it's funny you bring that up
I typically have a honesty-only policy with my girlfriends
How would this world work? How can you have a woman who does not want to look as attractive as possible to her date?
I tell them early on -- if they ask me something they are going to get a straightforward answer, I don't like dancing around the fact
It has led to some interesting situations... :P
@stoicfury Heh, that is one of the three questions I have asked on this site.
@stoicfury Yeah, in those situations the truth is still an acceptable alternative.
But I'm sure we can think of more painful examples.
Although I'd rather not.
Is it not better if people think they look better than they do in fact?
They will feel better.
As long as it doesn't raise their expectations too much.
Well, that raises an interesting question
This is a problem in religion, of course:
Faith makes one feel comfortable, but...
09:45
Is it ok to keep people in the Matrix happy? Or reveal the hard truth that life is suffering?
Yeah.
I think that's easier than the religious example: I see no harm in letting those people continue their happy lives in the Matrix.
I'm a utilitarian at heart.
Sure, but through what basis do you suggest that "living a happy lie" is the "Greatest good"
perhaps the greatest good is living the truth, even if it is hard
Lives, not lies. ;-)
@stoicfury Why should it be? What inherent good is there in truth? Why is it not a means?
no i mean lie
Yeah I know.
I was teasing you a bit.
09:48
:P
well, by that rationale then
Rationale?
why not go out right now and kidnap people in their sleep and then put them in a coma with drugs and make sure they have their pleasure centers of their brains always stimulated
2
Why not indeed?
KIDNAPPER
REPORTED TO THE AUTHORITIES
Perhaps heroin junkies lead happier lives/lies than we.
Oh noes!
09:49
haha
But I seriously don't have an answer to that.
Are pigs truly in a worse state than we?
And rocks?
And how about a hermit who never leaves his cave but always studies and meditates, versus a travelling adventurer?
Should the hermit be "released" from his unhealthy situation and forced to leave his cave?
Yeah, me neither
Some of my non-philosophy friends don't get it
when I ask them to convince me why life is better than non-life
(for example)
So do you truly feel the Matrix is worse than our current Platonic cave?
any coherent reason...
oh no, I don't know. I don't have any position yet. I was just playing devil's advocate
Yeah, most people have strong intuitions with respect to freedom and truth. Horizons they cannot see beyond.
A mightily PC devil, then!
I would rather expect His Infernal Highness to encourage matricial constructions.
What's the adjective to matrix in English?
I think I might be a rule-based moralist these days.
09:57
deontologist?
No, as in, neither principle-based nor utilitarian:
I wrote a paper on the moral stages of man
There are some rules that work well, so we must uphold them.
Oh?
What stages are those? Historical?
Principle based is rule based, no?
Deontological ethics or deontology (from Greek deon, "obligation, duty"; and -logia) is the normative ethical position that judges the morality of an action based on the action's adherence to a rule or rules. It is sometimes described as "duty" or "obligation" or "rule" -based ethics, because rules "bind you to your duty". Deontological ethics is commonly contrasted to consequentialism. Deontological ethics is also contrasted to pragmatic ethics. Deontological philosophies There are numerous formulations of deontological ethics. Kantianism Immanuel Kant's theory of ethics is considere...
The truth often has very important but subtle advantages, and so we must uphold it even in situations where there is no apparent reason to do so and many reasons not to.
But I don't want to turn it into a principle.
09:59
sounds like one to me buddy
haha :P
Nor do I want to limit it to concrete consequences.
@stoicfury Dang it!
Well, I don't want to always uphold the truth.
I just want to use it as a fairly strong general rule, but not an adamant one.
Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development constitute an adaptation of a psychological theory originally conceived of by the Swiss psychologist Jean Piaget. Kohlberg began work on this topic while a psychology postgraduate student at the University of Chicago in 1958, and expanded and developed this theory throughout his life. The theory holds that moral reasoning, the basis for ethical behavior, has six identifiable developmental stages, each more adequate at responding to moral dilemmas than its predecessor. Kohlberg followed the development of moral judgment far beyond the ages st...
So by "rule" I mean "pratical guideline".
Pirate's Code
Summary of the stages:
Ah, I just read the introduction to the article.
I feel as though I were in all stages simultaneously.
Is there room for that?
The stages seem a bit more...sympathetic in the Wiki article.
Level 1 (Pre-Conventional)

1. Obedience and punishment orientation

(How can I avoid punishment?)

2. Self-interest orientation

(What's in it for me?)
(Paying for a benefit)

Level 2 (Conventional)

3. Interpersonal accord and conformity

(Social norms)
(The good boy/good girl attitude)

4. Authority and social-order maintaining orientation

(Law and order morality)

Level 3 (Post-Conventional)

5. Social contract orientation
6. Universal ethical principles

(Principled conscience)
10:05
Well they are stages so they are additive
Right.
but as you progress to a new stage you tend to think mostly in your stage, but there might be times when other stages are appropriate
Hmm.
Well, don't we all occasionally help others because "it never hurts to have another ally", if subconsciously?
It's not very virtuous.
But...
And how about stage 5?
I never felt very strongly for 5 social contracts, except as a kind of handy political rule of thumb.
Is it 2am where you live, or later?
And don't universal ethical principles usually come rather early in one's development?
It's 11 am.
What time is it in your knack of the woods/mountains/plains?
10:08
whoa
Hmm?
You must live in Europe sir
I actually got up at 8, for some miraculous reason.
The Old World it is!
It's 2am here
Ah yes.
So...
That's 9 hours' difference.
How is that possible?
Are you in the Pacific?
On a raft, for example?
10:10
I live in the great state of California, USA
That would be cool.
GMT -8
Oh...well, that's nice too.
You must be GMT +1
Yes.
I am no doubt as exotic to you as you to me!
10:11
Home of the red white and blue
Ding!
But you have the same colours.
:P
I was going to go near you actually
this week
I was supposed to go to Germany
You should have!
10:12
but.... meh, too complicated, too last minute
Ow.
I hope you're not mad at Merkel's austerity?
nah, not really hearing much about that over here
OK.
Americans keep telling me, "spend, spend!".
So what were you going to do in Deutschland?
I have a co-worker who is going back (She's there now) and she invited me
who knows, she lives in Dresden
Dutch is your native language, yes?
Yup.
10:17
You started learning English before or after age 7?
Uhm I never really actively started learning it or anything, but we always had lots of television and films and computer stuff in English.
No dubbing, except for young children.
So that helps.
Wai?
I find it interesting you are non-native speaker and 13th highest contributer on English.SE
Oh hehe. Well, Reg is no native speaker either.
And he is like the pillar around which the whole site has revolved since its inception.
interesting yeah
Of these three, only John truly is a native speaker.
And none of us claim our Englishes are perfect, hehe.
10:21
Grammar and all that anyone can look up with just the basic proficiency level; the subtleties of the language are harder to really get, especially common usage if you aren't around native speakers
I suppose. But film and television help a lot there.
yeah :)
9
Q: What does "This being...." mean here?

Liu This being Silverlight, you’d expect there to be some way to get the XAML representation of the selected text—and you’d be right. What does the clause 'This being Silverlight', and especially the meaning of the word 'being' in the following sentence?

Grammar and active vocab-learning can probably give you a head start, but in the end you learn by far the most from reading/listening/writing/speaking.
I'm still convinced my answer is the most correct :P
At least, adds an important piece of information that shouldn't be left out from the other answer
Honestly though I don't really enjoy the SE sites that have too much traffic. It becomes hard to keep up with things. Answers get speedvoted then the votes avalanche, making it harder to appreciate other answers
That is true.
@stoicfury Do you feel that your answer is very different from Andrew's?
10:26
Well, I didn't bother repeating what he wrote, as it's true... but I think with the given example there was a tacit implication of quality
The absolute construction is closer to "as" or "since" than to "because", but I don't feel there is much more to it than that?
In general, the phrase "this being..." tends to imply something, given the context of the statement
@stoicfury But that is also what I read into Andrew's answer, more or less?
@stoicfury Unlike "since" or "because"?
They can be used to imply things, but he doesn't point that out.
"Since" implies that the reader already knows the information conveyed in the clause, but is merely made aware of its relevance, whereas "because" is more neutral: "because" could also be used with a fact unknown to the reader.
Very roughly.
Is there more to the sentence than that?
reading your answers again
10:31
Both since and because can be used in the same way, or slightly differently. Their usage definitely overlaps, sure.
Meh, it's 2:31am, my brain is in sleep mode anyways, I shouldn't be thinking :P
How about this?: your answer provides a very precise explanation of what the phrase implies in this particular sentence.
but that's part of why I don't contribute much there as well because it's not really grounded; people's opinions of this and that
@stoicfury Well, you can't really use since for a fact unknown to the reader...well, you can, but it doesn't look as neat.
@stoicfury In a way, yes.
People's usage will vary by demographic region let alone country
Oh, sure.
Since people in London do not use it that way, that usage is not very familiar to me.
10:33
and their own personal understanding of how a word or phrase is will be entirely shaped by their own experiences (what they read, what they hear, etc)
So there's a lot of gray area regarding what's "right"
Yeah.
Always.
We should all just learn Elvish
Distinguishing between the various groups and consensus (pl.) is sometimes a problem, and always relevant, to English questions.
Tolkienesque Elvish?
Sindarin or ehm Noldorin? Or what have you?
@stoicfury Did that since grate on your ears or your ego a little bit?
2 mins ago, by Cerberus
Since people in London do not use it that way, that usage is not very familiar to me.
"Grate on your ears"? haha, never heard of that before
Really?
10:36
no, I do not have an ego to bruise, sir :)
Is using "since" there not a little bit like "it stands to reason that..."?
Or "as we all know, ...".
the former, sure
Assumptions are made about the listener.
@stoicfury Hmm I thought this was a very common expression...
Not that I've heard during my limited experience here on Earth
10:39
maybe I'm living under a rock :P
Hehe.
I do get a fair number of results from Ngrams.
My own google search of the phrase brings basically nothing
But no matter.
seems to mean "bad sounding music"
on most of these sites... o.O
or just anything that is unpleasant?
anyways...
Yeah, the "core" meaning would probably be just the raw sound experience.
When awkward constructions grate on your ears, it's probably a bit of a metaphor.
You were going to bed, right?
10:42
I haven't decided
I'm looking at motorcycles to buy
Oh!
Wowie.
Chicks dig that. They will judge you favourably.
Or maybe not.
Who says they don't already? :P
Nobody!
Hehe.
I'm sure they do.
BRB
Question:
Why do we humans generate energy locally in every single cell, while all machines we make generate energy centrally? We transport fuel around our bodies, but machines transport more readily harvestable energy, in the form of raw electrons.
10:47
That seems like asking why sharks have teeth and why lions have fur.
That's just the way things turned out to be, no?
^_^
Yes, well, they both have teeth, and sharks have a good reason not to have fur.
Either that, or God did it to mess with us. :P
But we design machines.
Well, actually, perhaps sharks could benefit from fur.
"Why" can indicate a cause—it doesn't have to be a reason, does it?
Well, depending on how you define a "reason"
but generally a reason is a cause
reason as distinct from purpose
But also, just because our machines use electricity doesn't mean it's better energy
perhaps more harvestable because we as humans have decided to focus on electricity as energy
but human cells are actually pretty efficient
maybe we should have went that route instead :P
@stoicfury But why did we focus on running, say, the motor in a robot's hand on electrical energy?
Why don't we just use veins and transport fuel to the hand?
10:55
not enough smart people were born who are interested in such things
Or maybe it is because we use the same electrical circuits also for communication?
science goes where human interest is
To give orders to the hand, and read its sensors?
Our bodies use electricity for those things too, the nerves!
in another universe, perhaps Einstein is a molecular biologist and he does just that
Somehow I doubt that.
10:56
mmm not quite the same
Research usually progresses in the direction of least resistance.
cells use ATP transport and nerves use action potentials
So...
What do you mean?
ATP is fuel, right?
| Section2 = }} Adenosine-5'-triphosphate (ATP) is a nucleoside triphosphate used in cells as a coenzyme. It is often called the "molecular unit of currency" of intracellular energy transfer. ATP transports chemical energy within cells for metabolism. It is one of the end products of photophosphorylation, cellular respiration, and fermentation and used by enzymes and structural proteins in many cellular processes, including biosynthetic reactions, motility, and cell division. One molecule of ATP contains three phosphate groups, and it is produced by a wide variety of enzymes, including ...
But central communication happens by means of electrical signals, right?
Right, chemical energy.
Well, I am speculating in a very idle manner.
10:58
it's all the same to me
energy is energy
I'm not a biologist
I'm a psychologist, I like minds
Nor I.
Like minds, yes.
In a way.
I think I'm going to pass out sir
2:59 AM
oops just ticked to 3
Devil's Midnight
Tomorrow is Thanksgiving
I don't suppose you celebrate that, but it's ok, neither will I.
Oops!
Then I wish you a good night and happy non-celebrating!
cheers, mate
:)
Haha howdy, I mean...
<insert American colloquial farewell>
What's a slangy way to say bye?
Later?
We actually say that.
02:00 - 12:0014:00 - 23:00

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