eater.net/quaternions - I actually get quaternions now and how they're useful for rotations, and they're just amazing. Such elegance and simplicity, obscured by our minds' difficulty in visualizing and understanding 4D math and actions.

@El'endiaStarman @DJMcMayhem 38 for me with 2 parats

@ASCII-only Interesting. I also used two components. I think whether a solution is considered optimal depends only on the number of components.

@El'endiaStarman yes, but remember dj's trying to optimize for nand gates not components. just optimize your individual components and you should be getting better results

@DJMcMayhem @El'endiaStarman 34 nands now

@ASCII-only I was waaay over engineering it. I had 4 ADD gates lol

38's not too hard. I'll try to see if I can cut that down by using lower level gates

I'm having a really hard time with the counter right now

26 @DJMcMayhem :P

@DJMcMayhem spoiler

It's tempting, but I think I'll hold off on reading that for now.

well. if you use less than 4 adds already then it's not much of a spoiler at all, bc i probably misread your message now that i reread it

here's the real spoiler

@ASCII-only Oh psh, yeah I knew that

I did already get the 2 add 38 NAND answer

@ASCII-only Dang, I should have screenshotted my 76 NAND gate abomination

I don't think I could recreate it from memory

ah. then yeah i guess not much of a spoiler then: work your way up, golfing bottom up is easy :P

@DJMcMayhem XD

<- skipped most things

time to do counter, i guess?

@DJMcMayhem btw are you golfing nands for counter too? :P

sad thing is, select 16 is expensive, and there's no way to bypass that

At this point, I'm just trying to make it work... blech

i did something random

and it worked. 4 components which is optimal

i'm starting to think the tests for this one aren't thorough. or, i stumbled upon the solution

oh wait. got the right solution. @DJMcMayhem mind ss'ing your current progress?

It's a bit messy right now because I lost progress and started plugging in random things (and also I've been playing factorio, so I haven't been thinking about NAND gates for a good hour or 2)

XD

it is only 4 components though :P

Mine is also only 4 components. They're just in the wrong order and hooked up wrong :P

XD

oh yeah. working on multibit adder directly

i think i'm looking at something worse than the graph of a cthulhu merge

Directly as in only NANDs?

not exactly. simple components (and, inv, or) are there too

otherwise i would be able to see fewer lines than i already do

and i already have to drag things around to see what they connect to

of course, we could just google the solution, but where's the fun in that :P

@ASCII-only What a letdown. I think you should do it all it NORs built out of NANDs instead

@DJMcMayhem :| ok brb getting 16k screen

i guess a 4x4 wall of 4k screens would be big enough

> Here is my two bit full adder, with carry in and out, that seems to work, but needs only 18 primitive NAND gates.

O_o

2.5 hours left bipm.org/en/the-si

accepted by unanimous vote

LOL

game 6 of world chess championship: twitch.tv/chess

previous 5 games were ties

also wow, its the top stream in twitch rn

Sometime I want to create a Universal Chess Opening System (TM). Basically... attempting to memorize all the various opening strategies is difficult, and not the best use of time for someone my level. So the question is... how can I get the maximum power : memory ratio for my opening strategy?

Let me then create the Universal Chess Opening Counter System

Since all of the players have learned a certain set of openings, I can now beat them all :)

That's a separate product.

And while some "universal" systems exist, my approach will literally involve some sort of measurement of the complexity of the decision tree and memorization difficulty.

@PhiNotPi Watching world-class chess in real time is...not exactly thrilling. :P

I wonder how these players stack up against computers. Not that computers will make mistakes, but rather are these players essentially perfect enough to force draws.

no

npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/10/24/499162905/…

"...he [Magnus Carlsen] won't play it [his computer], because he just loses all the time and there's nothing more depressing than losing without even being in the game."

guess that answers it

Right now Caruana has the biggest lead anyone's had all game, with a 3/4th of a pawn advantage.

Unfortunately it's basically the endgame now and it's unlikely anyone will make any major mistakes... typically you need a ~3 pawn advantage or so to say that you are clearly winning.

can you ELI5 what n-pawn advantage means? (I just know the very basics of chess, basically how chess pieces move)

In chess, one of the easiest ways to guess at who is winning is to look at how many and what types of pieces they have left. Empirically, these values are pawn=1, knight=bishop=3, rook=5, queen=9. In the computer age, this same scale has been adapted to provide an evaluation of the current board. These estimates I'm quoting include both material (# of pieces) and positional (where things are located) information.

It's a pretty... rough scale. But basically, if I've lost a knight (or, through lookahead, I'm destined to lose a knight), then my advantage drops by about 3.

These fractional numbers (like 0.88 in favor of black) are a result of a computer that's looked deep into the game tree and said that this position is worse than evenly matched but slightly better than most situations where white is down a whole pawn.

huh, never heard of that before at all!

thanks a lot for explaining!

The big deal for the 3-pawn barrier is that, in the case of the very end of an endgame, a king + (a bishop or a knight) draws against a lone king. So it's not a matter of having the lead, it's about having enough of a lead that you can actually form a checkmating position from it.

so if one player just has king + bishop, and the other one just has a king, it could happen that you'll end in a draw?

Not could happen, but guaranteed to happen. because it's physically impossible for either to win.

(assuming you're not playing against someone like me=P)

I didn't expect that, that is quite interesting!

You typically need a (1) two-piece lead, (2) a rook/queen, or (3) a pawn that's close to promotion to be in a winning endgame.

Right now it's Carlsen with 4 pawns and a bishop, against Caruana with 2 pawns, a bishop, and a knight.

Everyone knows that Caruana is "winning" (1 pawn ahead) but there's basically no way for either of them to end up with enough of a lead to actually win.

is there a livestream somewhere?

twitch.tv/chess

thanks!

Warning: can be really slow, and there's usually not much to watch.

first game that isnt a draw?

is that black/white bar on the left representing the advantage situation?

Yes

stockfish analysis i think

@betseg Nah, I think people are just optimistic. It's clear that both players really want to win, though, because it looks like they're playing this to the end.

positive number = white is better, negative = black is better

@PhiNotPi yeah no, like Go, computers can still search way, way more possibilities than humans. it's why the best player in chess is still a human-computer hybrid iirc (although it's likely alphago has surpassed them?)

@PhiNotPi clearly you should pretend to be the world class player and think about your next move :P