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12:17 AM
OK, found out why.
 
12:55 AM
@YEZ No idea. MSO doesn't seem to say.
 
 
2 hours later…
YEZ
2:55 AM
@msh210 I found this but don't follow so much.
 
3:35 AM
1
Q: Why would we presume a New Zealand beer contains dairy?

anthony-arnoldIn researching beer as it relates to the Jewish dietary laws, I came across this page, which states that most unflavoured beers are OK. Even imported beers are given a wary thumbs up, however the page repeats a curious warning that Beer from New Zealand must be presumed Dairy unless stated ot...

 
YEZ
@MonicaCellio 'tis the season
 
@YEZ but I think it's a serious question. And anyway, who uses beer to fulfill the Purim mitzvah? :-)
 
YEZ
@MonicaCellio It offers a whole new spin on the famous Beis HaLevi story - "can I use New Zealand beer for the seder?"
 
@YEZ heh, I hadn't considered that. :-)
(And thanks for reminding me where I'd heard that story.)
 
YEZ
4:11 AM
mishe mishe mishe mishe mishe mishe mishe mishe mishe nichnas adar!
 
 
1 hour later…
5:19 AM
@YEZ That's the site's hot-questions list, not the one we were discussing above.
 
5:32 AM
I can't recommend this music video (not because I haven't seen it, but because I dislike it), but on the plus side it does mention Mi Yodeya. (The phrase, not the Web site.) (And is that someone holding a tuba the wrong way up at ~3:34?)
 
 
1 hour later…
6:55 AM
I began typing aron space into Google, wanting to find a handy reference to the effect of the presence of the former on contraction of the latter. Google helpfully informed me that I probably meant to be one of the many people who apparently search for aaron space museum dc.
 
 
9 hours later…
3:29 PM
@IsaacMoses I've wondered (long but not hard) whether Google's suggestions, both on the results page and for autocompletion of search terms, are based on frequency of search or on frequency of result. I guess this seems to imply the former. (At least I hope so.)
 
@msh210 The results, if you search for aaron space museum dc, reflect an assumption that you meant the NASM.
 
@IsaacMoses I wonder whether that's based on (1) soundex, (2) the search results that people followed when searching for that (and for similar), or (3) what. Or some combination.
 
@msh210 oh, I was wondering how to get from "aaron" to NASM, but soundex would explain it. I wonder how many searches these days originate from the audio interface on phones/tablets instead of from keyboards these days.
 
3:44 PM
@MonicaCellio My assumption was that people actually assumed that it's called the "Aaron Space Museum"
 
@IsaacMoses oh. Yeah, I can see that happening.
 
@msh210 Probably a combination. (2), increasingly, the more searches there are to train the AI with, but you need a way to get them what they want the first N times they make the mistake, so something like soundex (but probably more sophisticatedly AI-driven) tries to guess misspellings (1)
 
3:56 PM
> The man had a look of constant nation on his face
 
@TRiG and "but four an entire meal with meat!" and "with and other liquid". I can't tell if it's OCR or voice-to-text failures (would have said the latter but for the and/any case).
 
4:15 PM
8
Q: Conversion: If G-d really wanted me to be a Jew (and observe mitzot), why was I not born into a Jewish family

Jeremy GlenneThis question pertains to the issue of conversion, and if it makes sense in the Jewish context of some people being Chosen specifically by God. Before beginning, this poster is aware of the long, and serious process of conversion, the commitment it requires, and the eternal nature of it. I am al...

^^^ Does this need depersonalization, or is it clear enough that the "me" in this question is just a close-at-hand example on which to base a general hashkafa question?
 
 
1 hour later…
YEZ
5:36 PM
@TRiG I wasn't responsible for the proofreading. Just hastily choosing the link.
 
@YEZ I don't think he's blaming you; he's commenting on them.
 
YEZ
@MonicaCellio I'm aware - nonetheless, as a proofreader I felt the need to disassociate myself from such a poor performance.
 
@MonicaCellio Yeah. It just amused me, @YEZ. (And I understand the desire to disassociate yourself from it.)
 
@TRiG yeah. I enjoy R' Kamenetzky's writings on the parsha (and have some of his books that compile them). It looks like there's been an editorial failure here, which is a shame.
 
YEZ
5:51 PM
how do I do superscript in a post?
<sup>I figured it out</sup>
but apparently it doesn't work in chat
@MonicaCellio really I just opened the edit box on your post in which you did it and stole it from you. And now I was modeh, so I'm exempt from keffel.
 
@YEZ mine doesn't seem to be missing, so you're exempt anyway.
And yeah, markdown for posts and chat seems to differ, but I don't have a good sense of what doesn't work here and what does.
 
6:37 PM
SEDE - number of new people posting per day indicates that more than 6 newbies in a single day is exceptional, in case you're curious about that.
 
YEZ
6:49 PM
@MonicaCellio did this not happen? I can't find the room. Is it a private room?
 
7:15 PM
@yez - didn't happen; he didn't want to talk.
 
YEZ
@MonicaCellio Aha I was hoping to reconstruct the apparent deleted comment conversation.
@MonicaCellio on an unrelated note, should this and the following comments be removed? Especially in light of the final comment?
 
Sorry about the confusion. I'm gong to delete the rest but wanted to give him a chance to see first.
 
7:36 PM
@MonicaCellio The conversation with @DoubleAA is somewhat out of place (comments are not for conversations), but it wasn't addressed to DoubleAA anyway.
@YEZ Not sure about the timestamps, but if by "final comment" you mean the "please don't hijack my question" one, I agree. The slap at trans people shouldn't be there at all.
 
@TRiG The way I see it, your quarrel is with Jewish law, not with the posted answer. There are prohibitions in Jewish law that you consider offensive, but that doesn't make them off-limits for comparison's sake in analysis of Jewish law or philosophy.
 
@IsaacMoses I certainly do have a quarrel with Jewish law (of course), but I don't think that's the crux of my concern.
 
@TRiG Your concern is, as you've said, based on the comparison being irrelevant and therefore frivolous. It doesn't seem that way to me.
 
@IsaacMoses I left one comment to Reb Chaim HaQoton. I think that one comment laid out what I wanted to say reasonably well. I'm pretty sure no further clarification is needed.
 
8:20 PM
@msh210, thank you for your moderation (multiple, unspecified)
 
@IsaacMoses I try to be moderate in all things.
 
Ah. Pish.
Look, this stuff matters.
 
@TRiG For someone who's done discussing it ...
 
@IsaacMoses I left one comment that I cared about. That comment has been removed, before the person to whom it was addressed had a chance to see it. This annoys me.
> So you went out of your way, in a context where it wasn't remotely relevant, to bash on trans people? You went out of your way to insult a section of society who are already horribly discriminated against, and who have a terrifyingly high suicide rate? Not cool. Also not decent. Also (relevant to your conclusion), not very thoughtful.
Ah well, the downvote stands, so. He'll not get a chance to edit and remove it. And he'll never know that he hurt people unwittingly.
I hope that I get told when I hurt people unwittingly. This gives me a chance to learn and improve. And perhaps to apologise.
 
YEZ
@TRiG that was what I meant. please excuse me while I do some catchup reading.
 
8:32 PM
@TRiG @rebchaimhaqoton The chat comment I'm here replying to is a copy of a comment originally on this answer of your wife's. There, the comment led to a bunch of replies, the gist of which was that the Torah's ban on sex change makes their inclusion in the answer as an analogy appropriate, and the lot got deleted. So here's a copy for you.
 
@msh210 That is not my recollection of the gist, but meh.
 
YEZ
@TRiG Maybe consensus was a better term.
 
9:15 PM
@YEZ is this question still relevant? (I can't tell what you intended to link to, but it looks like there've been some deletions since you asked, so just checking whether I need to look at something.)
@TRiG I seem to have lost the thread of what comments you're referring to. I was talking about the star-of-david question, and then YEZ linked to the new conversion question.
 
YEZ
@MonicaCellio no, I think @msh210 took care of it, followed by much lamenting, all recorded in the above conversation.
 
@YEZ backreading now.
(Sorry, was on phone when I was in here a couple hours ago.)
 
9:40 PM
Ok, I have now read the chat transcript and the deleted comments. I would like to say a few things:
1. I find that I am most successful in correcting problems of offensive statements when I start from the presumption that the other did not mean to offend. So unless I know something about the person (e.g. dealing with a known troll), I strive to start from that position. This means that instead of making a statement about intentions to offend, I say something like "You may not realize it, but such-and-such has thus-and-such issue. Would you consider rephrasing?"
2
1a. I do not claim to always succeed at this. We're all human. This is an aspiration.
2. Sometimes people, either the original person or a third party, react strongly to objections of offense. Adding heat does not help. Anybody who can back off and try to calm feelings so we can discuss the actual issue and not the reactions to it performs a public service.
3. I do not know the person who made the statement. I know the commenters somewhat. I have no reason to believe that any of the people involved are uncaring or bad people. I believe some made heated comments and those comments led to other heated comments. I agree with the deletions even if some signal was lost.
4. These were deleted; anybody who wants to is still free to add a productive comment. The author of the post may well not have seen any of it, or may have seen inbox fragments and be confused. Feel free to raise the issue along the lines of what I said in 1.
5. As for the original issue, the statement that halacha does not permit that particular operation is correct as far as I know. I do not presume to know the mind of another, but I have some small inkling of how hurtful that must feel to someone who feels he was born in the wrong body. If the post had said anything about the affected people rather than halacha that would be a problem. Sometimes we have to contend with true statements that hurt, unfortunately.
Ok, done with the wall of text.
 
10:15 PM
@MonicaCellio I should perhaps rewrite that comment, but I'm far too tired to do a good job of it right now, so I'll let it stand for tonight, at least. May come back to it in the morning.
 
@TRiG understood, and TZT to you.
 

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