@MoriDoweedhYaAgob which is not normative, so while you're free to do that, I'd encourage you to be more careful when representing what is or isn't against halacha. Many, many observant Jews see no problem with music (of appropriate types, at appropriate times, etc), so a blanket statement that music is "against halacha" is clearly not broadly applicable. Also, if it were, why would halacha need to tell us about not listening to music during the omer and the three weeks? It would be redundant.
"Rashi and Tosafot rule fairly leniently on this issue and permit music to be listened to on a moderate basis outside of taverns" http://koltorah.org/ravj/13-32%20Jewish%20Perspectives%20on%20Music.htm
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob but minhag can't trump halacha, so if Ashkenazim can listen to music, then either listening to music is permitted globally or it's permitted for a rather significant portion of the Jewish community. Hence my comment that a blanket statement that listening to music is against halacha is...problematic.
The Halacha is ( אורח חיים הלכות תשעה באב סימן תק''ס סעיף ג) That since the Destruction of the Temple we may not listen to any Music.
How is it that most people do listen to recordings?
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob, I'm not actually here to argue music; this is just a recent example of a pattern I've seen often in this chat room, usually in conversations involving you (but not only from you!). I'm asking you, out of respect for visitors who don't know the individual practices of everybody here, to be more careful about making blanket statements that aren't really blanket.
ok let me revise that then. ashkenazim are lenient on all holochoth which are real holochoth. and made shtuthim to be stringencies on things which need no stringencies
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob No. It's still inaccurate and you know it. You really want to claim that I can't find you one place in Rishonim where Ashkenazim are more machmir than the Rambam?
@DoubleAA and i said that i follow RaMbaM and i hold he transmits the holocho properly as meant to be followed. and therefore say this is holocho. it is against holocho for me to say you should listen to music for it is against holocho to listen to it.
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob If you can't talk about other opinions at all then this probably isn't the right site for you. Besides no one here should be asking for or giving actual psak so your concerns shouldn't be relevant.
@DoubleAA the psak was given by RaMbaM already. and i mentioned that i should not listen to music because it is against holocho. and i was asked where it was brought down.
@DoubleAA i was not mocking i was saying as seen throughout history. that the ashkenazic community instead of agreeing and accepting that they are wrong. they forge things in the names of jaonim and make other things up in order to give their practices a right to stand even though they are against holocho.
RaMbaM said it very good. those who confuse minhagim with holocho and the opposite will surely have a bad time
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob you're doing it again. "accepting that they are wrong", "make other things up", "even though they are against holocho" - this brand of "I'm right and everybody else is wrong" really isn't the sign of someone who claims to not be mocking, who supposedly wants to engage in discourse. (And if you don't, then what @DoubleAA said is right -- this might not be the right site for you if you just see it as a platform for declaring truth.)
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob That only might be seen through history if one assumes they should have accepted that they were wrong. If one thinks that the Teimonim and Rambam were wrong, then one can say the same thing the other way.
@DoubleAA but teimonim and RaMbaM have things to back them up. ashkenazim on the other hand dont unless they make it up or kvetch it out from somewhere
@MonicaCellio you should read hHachom jose faur then you will understand what i am talking about. i am not sure if @DoubleAA did read him but i think he knows what i am talking about at least
@DoubleAA ashkenazim cant claim rambam made up things in the name of jaonim nor can they say the same bout teimonim
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob They can claim he isn't reading the gemara right. I'm not saying they do or don't (or that he did or didn't) only that they could claim that.
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I don't care to engage with you on a discussion of specific halachot (and I've never heard of your source so no, I haven't read it). My point is that the way you approach these discussions here is not constructive.
@DoubleAA they can claim he isnt reading it right because of girsoth or that they are learning better than him. but one who surely learns properly will see RaMbaM is correct and not tosafoth for sure.
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob without a better reason to spend time on it, I don't expect to read that. As I said, I'm trying to address a behavioral issue here, a point I've now raised several times and you haven't acknowledged.
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob so? I should care who you do or don't count why? Again, your approach is not helpful, and your misrepresentation of normative Judaism when discussing things with newcomers and outsiders is actively misleading. Tonight was the first time I've seen Argon in this room and you talked as if your interpretation is what everyone does. You do this with Ali too. I ask again: be more careful about that. Yes, caveat asker and all that, but we should try to do better.
@DoubleAA RaMbaM says it pretty good. r Hillel n r Shammai didn't argue on anything. their students did however. why? because as the generation went by they were not on the same mental level as the previous rabbonim
@DoubleAA i say mine is normative because from various holochoth you can see it was done by navee'eem and throughout the gamoro. unlike various minhagim which later on became holocho by ashkenazim
This is all irrelevant. I'm not here to defend Ashkenaz or Teman. I'm here to resist mocking or judging (in an absolute sense) any position on this site.
@MonicaCellio if many jews say not to wash feet hands and face before davening. particularly shahHarith because that is the required holocho and praiseworthy for other tafilloth
right... so that is what i am saying. go to the source of the holocho and look for yourself. then factors can come into play as in girsoth and the way a person learns something
@DoubleAA and i go by RaMbaM because i know for sure he had it right. and as seen throughout history that many things came into play into ashkenazic paskening
@DoubleAA i would formulate my position differently but i wont take back me sayng that ashkenazim are wrong. that is on the person receiving the message to understand that i am not saying judaism is wrong. i am saying i disagree and that person should look into why i disagree instead of getting mad
@DoubleAA so in my teimoni shul i made a good friend not to long ago. and he and his uncle go according to RaMbaM as well. they are both ashkenazim. his uncle teaches in baruch college here in the city. they both do chalita. the uncle gets a shochet to come with him to a farm. shechts 6-7ducks(he prefers ducks) and he does chalita at home. he learned from mori gafih while he was a live and now if he has questions he calls mori rosSon arusi the student of mori gafih.
@DoubleAA mori arusi told the uncle that since chickens are much bigger here in the states due to chemicals and such compared to teimon. he should keep the meat in the water for double the time. mori arusi said that in teimon they held the meat in the boiling water for about 3mins and here we should hold it about 6-7mins
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob 7 minutes? That's pretty long. I thought you do chalita after the meat has been cut up, so why does it matter how big the original animal was?
@DoubleAA i havent ate meat since that time you have mentioned it to me and i have looked over it. i am going to start doing it myself but maybe sSlee will be better in my situation because of less mess
@DoubleAA you salt it for 24mins wash it thoroughly then drop it in for 3mins in boiling water(what they did in teimon)
@DoubleAA the chicken in general is smaller than the chicken here. so when you cut the wings and breasts and thighs off they are still smaller size than the american chicken. so the smaller bird takes less time for chalita compared to the bigger bird
It seems that underscore (_) is a wildcard character in Data Explorer. How do I escape it to search for an actual underscore?
Better - is there any indexing on words a la Lucene or RegEx support that I can access in the Data Explorer or do I have to do brute-force LIKE queries?
Even better -...
I have three questions.
1) Can a religious Orthodox Jewish employer, refuse to employ a Non Observant Jew on Shabbos or other Jewish holidays, if the Non Observant Jew volunteers to work on this, since the Non Observant Jew has always worked on Shabbos and Jewish Holidays all his life in other j...
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob you keep saying that ashkenazim are wrong for not following RaMBaM on everything, but plenty of sephardim, mizrachim, and even teimanim follow Shulchan Aruch
@Daniel teimonim follow shulchon oruch because they want to be like majority. sefaradim followed shulcon oruch because they accepted ashkenazi philosphy over their original philosophy of the jaonim
@Daniel he views that paskening like the rambam to be an ikkar (like an axiom). There is no proof (and there can't be) either way (whether the Rambam is right or not)
@msh210 i dont because shulchon oruch paskens liek the zohar in a few places. and his understanding of holocho is also revolved around kabboloh althought he does go by rambam in many places. he himself says that rambam is bigger than him and that holding by rambam is better than holding than him
@Daniel not forever. make tashuvoh and follow holocho properly
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob The only thing he says about an individual is "how can someone force him to leave" the Rambam -- but does not actually say the guy shouldn't leave the Rambam. He only says that about a community that's been following the Rambam for generations.
right. he says why should the people following himself make others who follow RaMbaM follow him? RaMbaM is much greater than he is and they have on who to stand by
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob He says nothing about greater. He'd presumably say the same rule about himself -- or at least about the Rosh -- as he does about the Rambam.
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Sorry, quite right. I maintain though that "He'd presumably say the same rule about himself -- or at least about the Rosh -- as he does about the Rambam".
he would not say the same about the rosh for he says the RaMbaM is the greatest poskim in the arab lands and the west. rosh was the posek of spain he moved there from ashkenaz
Heck, he derives it from a statement about Bes Shamay, whom we know the halacha isn't like. So Rosh can't be worse. Not can SA himself (certainly not according to the Avkas Rochel!).
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I don't get your point. What does choice of country have to do with anything?
@msh210 he says although we dont hold by beith shammai a person is can still hold like beith shammai if he wishes
@msh210 look in the page you linked. he said RaMbaM is greatest posek of all the arab lands and the lands of the west meaning spain. rosh was from spain. rambam is bigger than rosh
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob You misunderstand me. When I said "He'd presumably say the same rule about himself -- or at least about the Rosh -- as he does about the Rambam" I meant that a community following the Rosh for generations should not switch. I didn't mean a claim of greatness.
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I do not understand what you wrote here.
@msh210 those communities following the rosh as seen through history were against rambam. read hHachom jose faur's papers i listen above about that time in history. mamash eye opening breath taking yet really sad
@msh210 rosh forbade his community to learn rambam not only mora navuchim but he even dismissed their plea of getting mishei torahs for the community
@msh210 Umm. Yes; close. Too many questions. 1 is, as you commented, hard to fathom (as currently phrased) and also phrased like Too Localized argumentation. (I suspect he means "allow to pick up hours under an existing employment relationship" by "hire.") 2 and 3 need to specify whether they're questions of Halachic or secular employment law; for the latter, they'd need to supply jurisdiction and may still be off-topic (though I'm more inclusionist than some on that - ...
... secular employment law as it affects Jewish practice is potentially quite on-topic IMO.)
@IsaacMoses @msh210 Am I imagining the duplicative nature of these answers? judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/28385/… Is the spelling out of mispar katan worth a separate answer? ( The last paragraph is new)
(Yes, it does seem petty, and I'm really not concerned; I'm merely curious.)
@HodofHod I don't think we've deleted answers in the past for duplication unless there was absolutely nothing new in the newer answer. At least that's my impression; I may be wrong.
Our nation is wise and perfect, as has been declared by the Most High, through Moses, who made us perfect: "Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people" (Deut. iv. 6). But when wicked barbarians have deprived us of our possessions, put an end to our science and literature, and killed our wise men, we have become ignorant; this has been foretold by the prophets, when they pronounced the punishment for our sins:
"The wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid" (Isa. xxix. 14). We are mixed up with other nations; we have learnt their opinions, and followed their ways and acts. The Psalmist, deploring this imitation of the actions of other nations, says, "They were mingled among the nations, and learned their works" (Ps. cvi. 35).
Isaiah likewise complains that the Israelites adopted the opinions of their neighbours, and says, "And they please themselves in the children of strangers" (Isa. ii. 6); or, according to the Aramaic version of Jonathan, son of Uzziel,
"And they walk in the ways of the nations." Having been brought up among persons untrained in philosophy, we are inclined to consider these philosophical opinions as foreign to our religion, just as uneducated persons find them foreign to their own notions. But, in fact, it is not so.
NO TOUCHY!
just so you know the psalmists were ashkenazim
one famous psalmist is ramchal although he was much later than rambam
@HodofHod it seems pretty similar but not 100%. It would have been better IMO for him to propose an augmentation of your answer than write a new one, but oh well. I'm not sure what edit could be reasonably done, but I note that the voters are also speaking on the matter.
The Halacha is ( אורח חיים הלכות תשעה באב סימן תק''ס סעיף ג) That since the Destruction of the Temple we may not listen to any Music.
How is it that most people do listen to recordings?
It seems that underscore (_) is a wildcard character in Data Explorer. How do I escape it to search for an actual underscore?
Better - is there any indexing on words a la Lucene or RegEx support that I can access in the Data Explorer or do I have to do brute-force LIKE queries?
Even better -...
