V'dibarta Bam

Monica Cellio

12:07 AM

@HodofHod nice job aligning image and "hat". :-)

HodofHod

:D

msh210

6:46 PM

@HodofHod @IsaacMoses and whoever else: I'm not interested enough in WP's reliability to edit it for that reason. (I'm not our "resident WP editor": I edit Wiktionary much more.) Of course, you can. Accuracy of Judaism information is more important, though, but I don't see anything wrong, really, with en.wikipedia.org?diff=586488494&diffonly=1.

...nor do I feel a need to correct everything I see wrong about Judaism on WP, tbh.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 I am concerned with how MY is [mis-]attributed.

HodofHod

7:10 PM

@msh210 Fair enough.

@msh210 I'm still working on that need. I have periodic episodes of xkcd.com/386. Luckily, these are getting better, but I hope to reach your level of composure and tranquility. :D

Monica Cellio

7:27 PM

@HodofHod is it bad when you recognize certain XKCDs by number wtihout needing to look? :-)

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio You seem to have a case of what experts call "RXKCD" or "Relevant XKCD." You should get that checked out! ;D

Moshe P.

@IsaacMoses Re your comment on my answer - I was certain that you would say that, which is why I started my answer by saying that it may not answer the main question - in fact if you look at my pre-edit version I state that at the end also. But I agree that the question, if asked by itself, stands as a good question,

but since you preceded the question with something which is not correct -according to what I quoted from the Geonim - I didn't think it was unreasonable to assume that your main question was being asked in the same vein. Again, as I stated in my pre-edit the matter is definitely not conclusive. Would you like me to roll back my edit?

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod you got a strip number for that? :-)

HodofHod

"This is the reference implementation of the self-referential joke."

Monica Cellio

7:49 PM

@HodofHod nice. :-)

HodofHod

Not great, but it's the best I could find. He really has to make a really self-referential one.

Isaac Moses

@MosheP. The background question was unsophisticated enough that it could be dealt with summarily, as I explained in the second paragraph of the question. Your answer, as it stands, is a more nuanced way of saying "God said so." That's useful, but regardless of the nuance regarding how we relate to this exception (e.g. "pushed aside" vs. "never included"), the fact of the exception remains, and remains, potentially, a basis for lessons from God to us, like all other details of Halacha.

Moshe P.

@IsaacMoses I have no argument with you on your main question, but it would have been better to ask the question by itself rather than introduce it with something which prompted me to invest my time to refute it. I consider your question 'tainted' with the flavour of your preamble.

msh210

@IsaacMoses Cf.

@IsaacMoses Y'yasher kochacha!!

Isaac Moses

8:12 PM

@msh210 Baruch tihyeh! I was hoping you'd like that. I actually did a lot of digging to get to that, with sources, and ended up not using a bunch of what I learned. PRE darshened that the 4 exiles would last a total of one "God's Day" (presumably 1000 years), possibly minus a bit, which would mean done on or before 4319. Abarbanel, who lived after that date, reinterpreted "God's Day" in this context to be 2000 years and came up with a date before 5319. May the exile end speedily, in our days.

@MosheP. The experiences that motivate our Torah questions aren't always pristine. If you think I need a stronger disassociation between the motivating question and the final question, you or I could try editing one in.

msh210

@IsaacMoses Amen.

4

Q: Trains traversing cemeteries - Kohanim

A Kohen is enjoined from becoming Tame by proximity to, or presence in the same building as, a corpse. (That's a brief summary.) May a Kohen ride on a train that passes over, through, or under a cemetery? May he ride a train that has traversed one?

^ I seem to recall a d'rasha on "adam ki yamus b'ohel" that "atem k'ruyim adam" so the rules apply only to Jews' corpses. Am I mistaken?

Monica Cellio

@msh210 I remember studying a text about that (and that there was an opposing opinion), but I don't remember the specifics. (It was a shabbat shiur, so no notes. Sorry.)

Isaac Moses

@msh210 The standard context of 386 is a matter for which the subject has no direct responsibility. If I was the PR director for MY and saw something wrong on the Internet about MY, I think I'd be justified in taking responsibility for fixing it, especially if that could be done through editing rather than argument. And given that MY doesn't have an official PR director, I think there's nothing wrong with concerned citizens such as those assembled choosing to take on a bit of that mantle.

6

Q: Issues of Tumah vis a vis non-Jewish human remains

I was once told that there's a crypt in the Old City of Jerusalem near one of the gates (I forget which one), which houses the remains of a well-regarded non-Jew (once again, I forget the exact details), but that this doesn't pose an issue of Ohel because Ohel doesn't apply to non-Jewish remains....

gentiles death kohen-priest tamei-tahor-ritual-purity

@msh210 Want an umbrella for your gravatar to wear?

Moshe P.

8:33 PM

@IsaacMoses As an additional note, you can see from the comments that there seems to be a general understanding that the korbonos of Shabbos pushes off Shabbos, and I wanted very much to fix this misunderstanding. With regard to your main question (the untainted version :-),

I had a look around in the various seforim that I learn but have yet to find something. But then again I haven't yet finished all the 50,000+ seforim of Hebrewbooks.org. (Plus the many thousands of seforim not yet on that site!)

Isaac Moses

@MosheP. Y"K

Moshe P.

3

Q: Is there really a distinct "Jewish soul"?

I have heard many times about Jews having a "special soul" or a "Jewish soul" - a soul which is either lacking and/or fundamentally different than that of non-Jews. However, the sources which are pointed to in support of this claim are all later (i.e. more recent) sources which bring no support ...

hashkafah-philosophy mysticism-kabbalah soul

Isaac Moses

@MosheP. Stay tuned. I'm hoping avi will come up with something compelling from the book he mentioned

Moshe P.

^^^ A different issue - it bothers me that the answer to this question references a despicable website (I'm not talking about the particular page that he quotes)

Monica Cellio

@MosheP. that's something you might comment on (explaining, for those who don't know, what's wrong wtih that source) and vote based on. For anybody who doesn't know that it's a deceptive Christian site (l'havdil) you'll be providing a service, and if the author doesn't know that he might update his answer based on that info.

Isaac Moses

8:51 PM

@MonicaCellio @MosheP. ... or just go ahead and edit the disclaimer right in. Or find a different source for the quoted material and replace it.

Moshe P.

9:12 PM

@IsaacMoses @MonicaCellio I'd appreciate it if one of you more experienced chappies could do it for me - I'm likely to use very strong language!

TRiG

@IsaacMoses Well ... "Christian Atheism" is on topic. ;)

</Archivist>

Isaac Moses

@TRiG I'll say

TRiG

@IsaacMoses I was trawling through chat transcripts trying to find something for another archivist post, found a place where I'd quoted you, read some of the context, and a reply came to me. So I posted it.

;)

I don't do date-relevant thinking.

Monica Cellio

9:29 PM

I don't have time to go through every part of that long link, but the translations are highly suspect and selective, using misleading words, on a few that I noticed. The overall point is fine as a listing of sources to investigate, but don't accept that translation and interpretation, it is way over-strident and un-nuanced. — Yishai 2 hours ago

If you've got a more reliable source for this information, it would improve this answer to edit that in. That site contains a lot of misleading and/or mistaken information. It's telling that they conceal their identity and affiliation. (Or, at least, I can't find anything on their site admitting to who they are.) — Monica Cellio 1 min ago

I'm pretty sure they used to admit that they're Christian, but I can't find it now. Looks like it in any case, though.

Moshe P.

@MonicaCellio The origin of this material is from another website which I would not quote.

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