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11:57 AM
@user525966 Sorry I don't know what you mean by combine systems. You cannot combine different deductive systems, in the same sense that there is no well-defined notion of combining different games. However, I think you meant to say "combine proofs" or "combine axioms".
20 hours ago, by user21820
@user525966 Short answer is "yes" Long answer: I might have forgotten to define what is a theorem in the Fitch-style system we have gone through. A theorem is a assertion/statement that is not under any context whatsoever. For example, in the first example proof here, there are two lines that are outside all the contexts, and those two are theorems.
Now in a deductive system you may also have axioms, which you are allowed to assert anywhere. I did not want to get to that yet, because we were still at propositional logic. Intuitively, "axiom" is supposed to mean something that you are assuming to be true, and hence it makes sense that we are allowed to assert an axiom anywhere. But if you want to talk about combining axioms it means you want to study logic from the outside, so we can consider any set of axioms, nonsensical or not.
We shall write "S |− Q" to mean "The formal system S proves (generates) the statement Q". We so far have a Fitch-style deductive system for PL (propositional logic), and so we can for example say that ( PL |− A or not A ) and ( PL |− A or ( A implies B ) ).
This definition can be applied to any other deductive system for propositional logic, because any one of them will prove the same statements (even though the proofs may look very different).
Now to add the notion of axioms, for a formal system S for propositional logic we shall write "S+X" to mean the same system plus the set X of axioms, meaning that you can use any statement in X as an axiom (besides the axioms S already has).
For example, it is false that ( PL |− A implies B ), but it is true that ( PL+{not A} |− A implies B ). If you want to be precise, it would be PL+{"not A"} |− "A implies B", but it is conventional to omit quotes if the reader can figure out what is a string and what is not (but when I omit quotes I usually enclose in brackets to make sure it is unambiguous).
12:35 PM
Likewise, for first-order logic the Fitch-style deductive system can serve as the 'base' formal system FOL, and you will have things like ( FOL |− ∀x ( x=x ) ) and ( FOL |− ∃x ∀y ( y=x ) ⇔ ∃x ( x=x ) ∧ ∀y,z ( y=z ) ). And again we write "FOL+U" to denote the system FOL plus (first-order) axioms U, and so given (first-order) axiom sets U,V such that ( FOL+U |− Q ) and ( FOL+U |− R ) we again have ( FOL+U+V |− Q ) and ( FOL+U+V |− R ).
In many textbooks they will omit all mention of "PL" and "FOL", and rely on the reader figuring out which is meant based on the context.
@famesyasd In set theory, (A * A) * A is not the same as A * (A * A), and they are both different from the set of functions from {0,1,2} to A. So if you want to be precise you will have to use the correct one for your purposes.
@user525966: By the way, I suggest you finish with learning the Fitch-style system for first-order logic, because as you can now see it is not hard, and it will be extremely important later. Do you understand the 2 examples?
@famesyasd: Oh yea it is worth mentioning that the generalized product type cannot be expressed via cartesian product. Namely, if you have an arbitrary index set I and a function S from I to U, then you may want the set of functions { f : f in func(I,Union(U)) and forall k in I ( f(k) in S(k) ) }, which is also called a dependent product type. For example, if I = N then you get the set of infinite sequences where the k-th item is in S(k).
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@Holo In practical mathematics, it is of course common to just ignore the differences, but surely you will agree that they are ultimately not the same thing, and that no amount of cartesian products will get you the set of infinite sequences, so there is a fundamental difference between using cartesian product and using functions to 'encode' the product type.
Yea. Though it's interesting to note that many practical formal systems still have cartesian product types even if they can form the general product types. Seems like the same reason it is easy for us to imagine finite tuples as literal finite strings with items dangling off them than to imagine them as functions from an initial segment of N.
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Lean 4 is a different story, not least because it does not exist. We are patiently waiting for the Lean developers to release Lean 4, and when it is made public there are rumours that certain critical pieces of infrastructure (for example the "simp" tactic which proves certain equalities automatically, saving the user from having to supply trivial proofs) will be absent. So it will be a while before we are ready for Lean 4. Porting will occur, at first slowly, and then more quickly as we begin to understand what needs to be done. — Kevin Buzzard yesterday
One of the criticisms of Lean on the blog of Hales is incredible: "Lean is not backwards compatible. Lean 3 broke the Lean 2 libraries, and old libraries still haven’t been ported to Lean 3. After nearly 2 years, it doesn’t look like that will ever happen. Instead new libraries are being built at great cost. Lean 4 is guaranteed to break the Lean 3 libraries when it arrives." So a big chunk of your work may be wrecked when the next version of Lean comes out. — KConrad yesterday
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> It is not possible to get a usable installation of Lean + library under Windows without following instructions in Kevin's blog post − Neil Strickland
One thing which Lean, or at least its libraries, are not good at is playing with axioms. That is, showing what holds in the absence of the axiom of choice, for example. Although there is a mechanism for finding out if a theorem uses a particular axiom, and AC is one of these, it's no help if all the basic theorems in the library assume AC (in particular when Diaconescu is used to prove LEM from AC). So while it's possible to define your category, Hahn-Banach is true from lean's POV, and so it collapses to the usual category. ... — Mario Carneiro yesterday
@LeakyNun Why is it not possible to just wrap the whole thing in some auto-installer for windows 7/8/10? In general, I think if one wants to get something widely used, one should make it as easy as possible. Security considerations aside, that means auto-installation. Presumably these logicians aren't concerned about security anyway, since 1Gb is impossible for anyone to check for hidden malware.
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6:58 PM
I'm a little lost on the overall context of fitch-style in the first place, i know you answered before but I didn't quite understand
i can't tell if fitch-style is its own "logic system" or if it's more or a "writing style / notation" that accomplishes the same thing as just writing out lines like I did here: math.stackexchange.com/questions/2927979/…
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11:53 PM
@user21820 Do you know whether the class of functions computable by a quantum turing machine is strictly larger than the class of functions computable by a classical turing machine?
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