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ASCII-only

00:00

@DrMcMoylex :( Why did you add a run button, it calculates quickly enough already

DrMcMoylex

@ASCII-only idk, I just thought the auto-updating was obnoxious. I was also thinking we could have it optimize multiple ints with commas

ASCII-only

@DrMcMoylex Hmm, okay

Added an option for autorun back :P

@ASCII-only But then I would have to take care not to use it inside (n){m({}[l])}{}. — Neil 8 hours ago

Also whoops need to fix this

ASCII-only

00:31

@DrMcMoylex Also pls add to brain-flak organization?

@DrMcMoylex If you're still there, pushed - the numbers in the output are separated by double newlines (and btw big numbers (i.e. non-cached numbers) are really suboptimal unless you have too much RAM so you shouldn't be relying completely on this for big numbers)

DrMcMoylex

OK. I'll add you to bf org once I have time, but I'm kinda busy rn

ASCII-only

@DrMcMoylex But it takes like 30 seconds :(

DrMcMoylex

On a computer

ASCII-only

Oh, okay

DrMcMoylex

I'll either get it within 20 minutes, or before I go to bed tonight depending on how busy I end up, haha

@ASCII-only What time zone are you in? (If you don't mind me asking) you're from Australia right?

ASCII-only

00:42

@DrMcMoylex Yes, AEST (UTC+10)

I'll be awake for about another 12 hours 17 minutes

 x=sqrt(sqrt((4/3)y+3)-.75)-.5

DrMcMoylex

OK. I've got another 6 tops

ASCII-only

I probably need to do upper bound later

Wheat Wizard

00:57

@ASCII-only Is this the inverse of that function I gave you?

ASCII-only

It's the inverse of the function minus 2 (oops wrong way

x=sqrt(sqrt((4/3)y+1)-.75)+1.5

Wheat Wizard

It doesn't seem to be?

ASCII-only

This should be the inverse plus two

@WheatWizard How

Wheat Wizard

Oh I made a mistake copying it

do you need a stronger upper bound?

I have a method that I can use to make the upper bound even stronger

DrMcMoylex

@ASCII-only Alright, just sent invite

ASCII-only

01:03

@DrMcMoylex :D Thanks

DrMcMoylex

@WheatWizard Would you like me to add you also?

ASCII-only

@WheatWizard Not sure, the method I use isn't exactly optimal

Wheat Wizard

@DrMcMoylex Yes I would thank you

@ASCII-only Do you use hard coded multiplication?

DrMcMoylex

Cool. You're both owners

ASCII-only

@WheatWizard hardcoded?

Wheat Wizard

01:05

(....)({}){}

ASCII-only

I kinda use Neil's answer

Wheat Wizard

Ok I'll check that out

that upper bound might technically be too strong

ASCII-only

try repeatedly: unsquare -> unpentagon -> divide by 2 -> divide by 3 -> minus 2 and divide by 2 -> minus 1 until under cache's upper limit

@WheatWizard It's pretty different - it does it in reverse for values not in the cache

Wheat Wizard

I can't prove that the upper bound fits neil's answer

ASCII-only

Yeah

Wheat Wizard

01:08

If you implement multiplication by any number not just 2 and 3 it will be fine

and I can make it a good deal stronger

ASCII-only

Hmm

I'd need a way to find the most optimal factorization

Wheat Wizard

Actually you only need to implement prime numbers

ASCII-only

I think

Unless it's possible to prove that prime factorization is always optimal

Wheat Wizard

It has been proven

ASCII-only

Having no upper bound is not that bad though, the RAM usage is way better than that of the Python one

@WheatWizard do you have a link?

@DrMcMoylex v Pls pin instead of old link?

brain-flak.github.io/integer

DrMcMoylex

01:16

Sure

Wheat Wizard

@ASCII-only The proof is quite short. I'll type it up here

it takes 4(n-1) characters to multiply by n

ASCII-only

@DrMcMoylex Also 0/10 online brain-flak interpreter doesn't work :P

Wheat Wizard

thus to multiply by nm it costs 4(nm-1) characters

ASCII-only

The optimizer gives

(((((((((((()()()()){}){}){}){}){}){}){})({({})({}[()])}{}){})({({})({}[()])}{}‌){})({({})({}[()])}{})({({})({}[()])}{})({({})({}[()])}{})({({})({}[()])}{}){})({‌({})({}[()])}{})({({})({}[()])}{})({({})({}[()])}{})({({})({}[()])}{})({({})({}[(‌)])}{})

for 2**20000 I think I did something wrong

Wheat Wizard

to multiply by n and then m it takes 4(n-1)+4(m-1) characters

as long as n and m is greater than 1 4(n-1)+4(m-1)<4(nm-1)

ASCII-only

01:20

But is dividing by a large prime number shorter by repeatedly subtracting 1 and halving

Wheat Wizard

@ASCII-only Oh I can't prove that

ASCII-only

Help I don't think 2**20000 should be that short, did I do something wrong

DrMcMoylex

01:47

@ASCII-only Haha, yeah that's up next

4 hours later…

Wheat Wizard

05:44

@ASCII-only Since you are working on the Metagolf stuff I just thought I would tell you that I just passed Neil with my python answer.

ASCII-only

06:25

@WheatWizard I have square and pentagonal numbers - even with the fix it's still the same at 58032

Wheat Wizard

Thats a lot better than mine

ASCII-only

Not entirely sure it does it correctly though

Neil's last one needed a fix for the square/pentagonal code, and I'm too lazy to find a number where that is the most optimal solution

Wheat Wizard

try 247

ASCII-only

(((()()()){}){}())({({})({}[()])({})}{})

Wheat Wizard

well it seems to work

do you want to test septagonals?

ASCII-only

06:30

I don't have septagonals - on Neil's code it didn't make a difference last time I tried

Wheat Wizard

have you tested squares

ASCII-only

Yes

Wheat Wizard

if not try 361

ASCII-only

brb

1048576: ((((()()()()){}){}){})({({})({}[()])}{})({({})({}[()])}{})

361 also works

Wheat Wizard

Do you want to add Anti-polygonal numbers?

ASCII-only

06:32

Example?

Wheat Wizard

442 is antipentagonal

ASCII-only

What does your solution give

Wheat Wizard

(((()()()()){}){}())({({})({})({}[()])}{})

ASCII-only

(((()()()()){}){}())({({})({})({}[()])}{})
((((()()()){}())){}{})({({})({}[()])}{}())

No difference in length, can you give a larger one?

Wheat Wizard

yeah I just have to find one

ASCII-only

06:35

@WheatWizard BTW in your answer you have Spetagonal

Wheat Wizard

yes I do

ASCII-only

I mean there's a spelling mistake

Wheat Wizard

ok I'll fix that

ASCII-only

BTW hexagonal numbers are just every other triangular number which is why it doesn't save any bytes until a lot later on

> a generalized form of Pentagonal numbers that includes the negatives

negatives?

Wheat Wizard

yeah I left them out intentionaly

try 5430

ASCII-only

06:37

What do you get for 5430

Wheat Wizard

(((((()()()()())){}{}){}){})({({})({})({}[()])}{})

ASCII-only

(((((((((()()()){}()){})){}{}){({}[()])}{}()())){}{}){})

Okay, looks like that is shorter

So what exactly do you mean by antipentagonal numbers?

Wheat Wizard

@ASCII-only Every polygonal number has an algebraic representation, e.g. triangle is n(n+1)/2, so you can pass negatives in.

the "anti-pentagonal numbers" are what you get when you put negative numbers into that algebraic formula

ASCII-only

Wheat Wizard

Anti-triangular and Anti-Square numbers are just Triangular and square numbers but for pentagons and greater these are unique numbers. They are also really easy to make in Brain-Flak

ASCII-only

06:42

Yay I can do it in reverse as well

:D I'll implement it now

Wheat Wizard

I am trying to learn JavaScript so I can make some PRs, hopefully I'll be up to speed soon.

ASCII-only

Wow, nice, 57870

@WheatWizard Trying heptagonal numbers now, what do you get for 5688

@WheatWizard

9 hours later…

Wheat Wizard

16:03

@ASCII-only Sorry I fell asleep (I'm in UTC-5)

@ASCII-only (((((((((()()()){}())){}{}){}()){({}[()])}{}()())){}{}){})

ASCII-only

16:24

@WheatWizard :( there are bugs

also it's late + assignment due tomorrow (;_;) so brb later

Wheat Wizard

In the javascript?

ASCII-only

@WheatWizard Yes

More specifically square/pentagonal etc don't work well with Neil's method

Normal is fine now but reverse is still broken

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