Wondering: while playing with l3build for making test files of typeset material. Does one need to have .tlg files for each engine type due to the differences in rounding? Was playing a bit with it a bit yesterday

@daleif Not in general, no

@DavidCarlisle hi david, do you like vim because of its link with lua? I am working with it and nvim. first it was hard. now that I successfully setup the config and learnt some keys, I believe it is helping with my efficiency.

@daleif Differences in fonts can show up: for the 2e test suite, for example, we deliberately for OT1 with LuaTeX for that very reason

@enthu I have used emacs almost every day since 1987, vim is clearly on the losing side :-)

@JosephWright Interesting. Perhaps I'll find and post the lvt file later.

I'll try to use this more in the future when changing code.

@DavidCarlisle oh no... I should work a few more days to reach to the emacs :)) having a hero like you is a very hard thing.

vim was very easy to setup on windows btw.

had to install many plugins in vim. emacs though has so many features in fresh install.

@daleif it can pay off to separate engine tests by using configuration files and different folders. Then you can do the main tests with only one engine and only a few dedicated tests with other engines.

I just examine many coding things in my free time to improve my skills.

@UlrikeFischer Yes, probably starting from scratch with mainly typsetting-based tests I'd go that way

@enthu Next step is to throw away tikz and go straight to the picture mode.

@mickep Charlie's preference (?) :))

@enthu Your idol David's.

(Who is Charlie?)

@mickep my fault, I mean Charlisle. Maybe talking about heroes is not a good idea in our era. But the very first day I came to this site, his advices helped me get familiar with LaTeX and then my interest went to python and Linux and others. I had previous programming experience but a kind good advisor is like him.

Gradually answered my questions and I did not opt out. Now I am doing most of my work with programming and free software.

Although I cannot go fully on linux because all of the packages in my field are gui based and commercial. Not supported by linux.

@JosephWright one problem that I have with more than one engine test (apart from the time) is that the real log and the pdf are from the test of the last engine and so can't be used to check problems with other engines without repeating the test. And I sometimes had side effects, e.g. if tests write files.

@UlrikeFischer Yes, true: if you are debugging, you need to do them one at a time

@JosephWright regarding engine tests: a few days ago I ran l3build check -epdftex in tagpdf, and it did run (with pdftex) also all the tests in config-luatex which is setup to use only luatex. Can one prevent that? (I have to go now, will be back later)

@UlrikeFischer You need to give the configuration as well if you only want to run one

@JosephWright I didn't want to run only one. I wanted to run all tests which are normally tested with pdftex, which worked, but it also did run which normally are not tested with pdftex.

@UlrikeFischer We currently don't have a way to do that because the main file can't even know which engines are valid for which configs

@enthu Emacs is just a bloated OS that sadly lacks a decent text editor.

@enthu Yes, he is indeed very knowledgeable and generous to share... (As many others here)

@Skillmon I see. VIM (and NVIM) to the point I have investigated, is just a good editor. (a very good one).

@mickep Exactly mickep :)

@enthu Now you are fully in the editor wars. Don't believe anyone but your own experience or your doomed ;)

@mickep wipet is clever. wipet uses pdf literals to draw stuff. be clever. be like wipet.

@TeXnician believe me, entering this environment of fully terminal focused editors is very hard for non-programmers. I wish one day I have a full time software developing role in my field. That will be an ideal position for me!

@enthu Well, emacs is not fully terminal focused. Actually it works best in its own window (or emacs speak: frame). But the real advantage: for most of the things you don't need to. For instance, there are rather nice vim bindings for VS Code and other graphical editors if you fancy the GUI side. Emacs bindings in most GUI software are not that advanced but still; learning the editor patterns of the classics does not force you to the terminal.

@TeXnician great. IE today I was surprised. Tried so many plugins to add python keyword colors to my vim. When David said Emacs, and I opened a python file, surprisingly all the keywords are colored. Seems a few parts are already done there too.

@yo' er not just wipet, doesn't everyone do that?

@DavidCarlisle well, I'm someone, not everyone, so I don't do it :)

@yo' oh I suppose you are old school and use \special with literal PostScript then?

@DavidCarlisle exactly. When I have a PDF figure, I convert it to PS and then copy-paste the postscript code into a \special and go via latex+dvips+pspdf

@yo' sounds like a good plan

@yo' :)

@JosephWright I love taking efficient shortcuts :)

finally (28. April):

@yo' I prefer the high level tools...

@UlrikeFischer Congratulations!

@mickep I'm looking forward to an addition to my bookshelf :)

@JosephWright Well, right, there is always place for more, isn't it.

@enthu you don't need any plugins to get syntax coloured Python files!

@enthu simply add to your .vimrc the options syntax on and set filetype=on and Python syntax highlighting should just work™

@Skillmon Or you spare yourself the trouble and just use emacs ;)

@TeXnician and cripple your fingers for life? Nah, better use an editor than an OS :P

@TeXnician you will need emacs anyway to save the edited .vimrc, saving files from vim is too hard

@Skillmon And have a painful time installing a real OS? :D

@DavidCarlisle actually, saving files is easier than in Emacs in my VIM. Just type ,w in normal mode and the file is saved...

@Skillmon Playing piano is the easiest thing on the world: you just have to hit the right key at the right time. Vim users tend to use similar logic ;)

@enthu this is how a buffer with Python looks for me^^^

@Skillmon Do I spot a language server there? That's certainly not a default vim setup with syntax highlighting enabled ;)

@TeXnician "for me"... I didn't want to produce a screenshot with a tweaked config just for this. But yes, that's pyright working. Overall the looks of my Python takes 3 lines of config plus one one-time command to install pyright

@Skillmon wow, looks nice. I wanted that word completion menu but I did not succeed! :))

you may share your config on gist :D

@TeXnician no the vi/vim/neovim is pretty simple. no specific interface or colours. These can be done with plugins. Pretty similar to TeX installations. But the problem is that installing a few of them need a lua code, a few other need python code. Configuration of all these is hard. I do not succeed to handle all plugins.

@UlrikeFischer Yeah!

@enthu I'm afraid you're mistaken there. VIM and NeoVIM have fantastic build in support for syntax highlighting. Just use the defaults. This here is the result of running nvim --clean foo.py (--clean means no user config, only defaults) on the command line and typing a few lines of Python code.

the normal VIM has the same syntax highlighting by default (but not the status bar).

@enthu so in conclusion: No idea what you did, but you did neither use the normal NeoVIM nor the normal VIM (maybe VIM in vi-compatibility mode or vi?)

Also, no big magic config in my VIM (and I don't like the idea of sharing the entire VIM config, I prefer building your own). But I can give you a few pointers as to what I use (of course I use plugins as well). First of all, I use a plugin manager, in my case vim-plug, but see What are the differences between the Vim plugin managers?.

Then I use coc.nvim for language servers

For Python I also use github.com/Vimjas/vim-python-pep8-indent

@Skillmon Yes, but I wanted to change the configs and everything changed! :)) I changed the theme to minimal (another plugin) because I hated the color of the cursor line and column line, but it did not have a syntax highlight. Another problem! So I needed another plugin to solve the syntax highlight.

I solve something, another issues raise. The same path for me in linux too :D :))

@enthu then you already started with a not minimal enough setup. Really, the defaults of NeoVIM are quite sensible, you don't have to have a bloated init.vim/.vimrc

@Skillmon 50 lines of code in init.vim

the result is nice though

@enthu why use vim-monochrome if you want syntax highlighting to be colourful?

@Skillmon because of cursor line and cursor column colors. The do not work for me in the default theme format.

@enthu Well, I don't use them... But if you want coloured syntax highlighting and not only black and white with bold or non-bold, you shouldn't use monochrome...

@enthu in NeoVIM with default settings both cursorcolumn and cursorline work (the latter quite nicely even):

@Skillmon the result is nice, thanks will check it. :)

Just a question about that pop-up menu for the syntaxes. How did you make it work?

without mono-theme

@enthu that's coc.nvim with the pyright language server. I put a link in this chat a few messages above.

@DavidCarlisle do you have any experience with MSYS2/MinGW? I'm asking because I know you have a lot with Cygwin...

@Skillmon a little but not much, mostly cygwin and trying to wean myself off that to wsl without much success so far

@Skillmon thanks. You pointd to a good point. Without a specific theme the vim has syntax coloring. I made it monocolor and then searched for a plugin to bring the colors :)) funny. BTW with that plugin and monotheme, the result was something different and satisfying. Beauty of the coding. I want to reach somewhere and lose my way to another place :))

This happened again last week. I was looking to code in terminal, then I downloaded vim. I then wanted to store them and decided to learn git! :))

My mind cannot focus

:D

@DavidCarlisle (un)fortunately WSL is not an option to me, my work-Windows is a bit locked up...

@Skillmon mingw is your friend then, a lot less invasve than wsl or cygwin, mostly I have stayed clear as it's hard enough keeping track of windows+cygwin+wsl without adding a fourth variant, it worked well enough when I did use it for one project though.

@DavidCarlisle it's not completely locked up, I got a working MSYS2/MinGW setup, but it's a bit lacking here and there... I'm wondering if I'd fare better with Cygwin.

@Skillmon it depends what you want mingw compilations produce mostly normal windows exe you could ship to someone. cygwin compilations make executables that really have a hard dependency on the virtual posix cygwin layer so are not usable by people without cygwin, and even with cygwin have to be used with care if not called from a cygwin shell, notably file paths are rooted at the nominal cygwin root not the windows \

@DavidCarlisle yes, that I knew (I used MSYS2 at my old work for that reason, hence use it at the new job as well), but at my new position any tools I write for others are usually just some q&d scripts in Python, batch, or seldomly even Java.

So the compilation against the Cygwin library would be/should be no issue.

Opera now does MathML (Joining Firefox, Safari, Chrome and Edge)

@DavidCarlisle didn't it do it already for some time? I did test the page with it didn't I?

@UlrikeFischer not unless you enabled the experimental features flag, or use the beta release chanel, the main release wasn't available to me until a couple of hours ago

@DavidCarlisle ah, I did enable the experimental flag some time ago -- you told me to do it ;-)

@UlrikeFischer but since Christmas I disabled it again so I'd see when it hit the main release:-)

@DavidCarlisle Very good!

@Skillmon thanks, installed these. BTW, what's the shortcut key to automatically write the function we want. For instance in the middle of the way import num[shortcut] to write numpy for us.