@CarLaTeX, @PauloCereda -- er, um, and I wonder why so many people reject anchovies: twitter.com/Daniel_Miller8/status/1544644479415713800

@barbarabeeton Dill pickles on a pizza is almost worse than pineapple

@barbarabeeton oh my

@CarLaTeX why worry about which to choose? Have both at the same time.

Is there a way to use def's or macros inside \begin{} and \end{} ?

Something like \def\foo{verbatim} and then do \begin{\foo} ... \end{\foo}

@ibuprofen have you tried this? It just works (but not with verbatim-like environments, verbatim will search for a literal \end{verbatim})

Yes, I tried, but it is for verbatim

Thought was a global switch of sorts between lstlisting and verbatim

So that I can change between the two at head of document instead of all \start{} and \end{}'s throughout the doc.

You could use a custom environment that you either define via \lstnewenvironment or via \usepackage{verbatim}\newenvironment{ibuprofen}{\verbatim}{\endverbatim}

Thanks. Think I found a solution :)

@DavidCarlisle Oh no!

@ibuprofen See also Defining environments based on other ones: What's the right way? - TeX - LaTeX Stack Exchange

@JosephWright see Skype :)

What values are a label allowed to take? I've only ever used strings containing letters from the alphabet.

@FaheemMitha nowadays basically everything.

@UlrikeFischer So any list of tokens? Is list the right term?

@FaheemMitha character tokens, don't try \label{\mbox{foo}}

@DavidCarlisle OK.

What's a good symbol to refer to a footnote? I was thinking a dagger. But it doesn't show up as well as I would like.

@FaheemMitha latex has a standard sequence

\def\@fnsymbol#1{%
   \ifcase#1\or \TextOrMath\textasteriskcentered *\or
   \TextOrMath \textdagger \dagger\or
   \TextOrMath \textdaggerdbl \ddagger \or
   \TextOrMath \textsection  \mathsection\or
   \TextOrMath \textparagraph \mathparagraph\or
   \TextOrMath \textbardbl \|\or
   \TextOrMath {\textasteriskcentered\textasteriskcentered}{**}\or
   \TextOrMath {\textdagger\textdagger}{\dagger\dagger}\or
   \TextOrMath {\textdaggerdbl\textdaggerdbl}{\ddagger\ddagger}\else
   \@ctrerr \fi
}%

@DavidCarlisle I was just asking what seemed like a good basic choice. An dagger seems to be historically quite common. I've seen it in a lot of different places. But I suppose an asterisk, or even a letter would work.

@FaheemMitha yes as I say I have no reason to suggest anything other than the choice latex makes.

@FaheemMitha -- May I point out that a dagger, when associated with an author, has sometimes been used to indicate that the person is deceased. (This may be regional.) So choose with care.