2:15 AM
@DavidCarlisle thank you.
@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 okay.
@DavidCarlisle should I use [hbt] for normal use?

3:11 AM
What should change here so that both #2 and #3 can be optional?
\NewDocumentCommand\Chapquote{mmO{}}{
\begin{quotation}
\noindent  \itshape{#1} \vspace*{-0.5\baselineskip}
\begin{flushright}
\textemdash \, \normalfont{#2} \\ \vspace*{-0.1\baselineskip}
\footnotesize\itshape{#3}
\end{flushright}
\end{quotation} }
Like:
\Chapquote{Quote Texts....}{Quote Author}{Quote Source}
\Chapquote{Quote Texts....}{Quote Author}
\Chapquote{Quote Texts....}{}{Quote Source}
\Chapquote{Quote Texts....}

1 hour later…
4:24 AM
I have come up with this:
\RequirePackage{xparse}
\NewDocumentCommand\chapquote{mO{}O{}}{
\begin{quotation}
\noindent  \itshape{#1}
\IfValueTF {#2}{
\vspace*{-0.5\baselineskip}
\begin{flushright}
\textemdash \, \normalfont{#2} \\ \vspace*{-0.1\baselineskip}
\footnotesize\itshape{#3}
\end{flushright}
}{}
\end{quotation}
}
But the problem is when I use only
\chapquote{Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet}
it still displays the extra blank space with \textemdash. I like to remove the blank spaces when no optional argument is specified.

2 hours later…
6:32 AM
@raf this is quite extended maybe a question of the main site is better. Short answer: use o (no default) and \IfValueTF checks. Maybe you can use different delimiters for optional: {mod()}

6:51 AM
@raf no the iof that is "not p" ie to prevent the float being placed on a float page, so for large floats that do not fit on a text page it forces them to the end of the document as they are not allowed anywhere.
@BAYMAX Barbara meant to say it was a switch, \bf has not been defined by default in LaTeX for some time, it was removed in 1993.
@raf the spacing there is rather weird, \,  for example is a thinn space followed by a normal inter-word space? you can probably replace \\ \vspace*{-0.1\baselineskip} by \par if #2 text (which doesn;t need to be in {} is long enough to be over two lines it will be normal size text on a footnotesize baseline so get uneven line spacing.

7:43 AM
How can I make the above diagram in latex ?

7:53 AM
@gaufler you can borrow ideas from tex.stackexchange.com/questions/132321/…

@Rm
@Rmano How to draw the arrow in the circle ?

@gaufler you can draw a full circle, overpaint the gap in the background colour and add a very short horizontal arrow to add the arrow head

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 How to write the inner and outer numbers ?

@gaufler using polar coordinates is the easiest way

@gaufler what @Rmano said

8:03 AM
How can I write it ? I mean I draw a circle and then what ? I do get that I have to use polar coordinates but how to write the numbers. I am not proficient in this stuff, could you help me ? Please !

@gaufler \draw[->] (85:1) arc (85:-270:1); (start from angle 85 distance 1, draw arc from 85:1 to -270:1)
\draw[->] (85:1) arc (85:-270:1);
\node [anchor=45] at (45:1) {7};
\node [anchor=-135] at (45:1) {$\frac{10}{13}$};

@Rmano Thank you so much !!

8:52 AM
@Rmano, If I wish to write something at the center of the arc. How should I do that ?

@gaufler writing at (0,0)

But writing at (0,0) shifts the circle to the center of the page

@gaufler ?

I tried this : \tkzDefPoint(0,0){$(0.\overline{0431162355})_7$}

\draw[->] (85:1) arc (85:-270:1);
\node [anchor=45] at (45:1) {7};
\node [anchor=-135] at (45:1) {$\frac{10}{13}$};
\node at (0,0) {$C$};

8:56 AM
Okay, Thank You!

@gaufler you are using TkzEuclide which I do not know --- so I can't help you there

9:37 AM
\begin{tikzpicture}
\draw[<-] (85:2) arc (85:-270:2);
\node at (0,0) {$(0.\overline{0431162355})_7$}
\node [anchor= 90] at (90:2) {0};
\node [anchor= 126] at (126:2) {4};
\node [anchor= 162] at (162:2) {3};
\node [anchor= 198] at (198:2) {1};
\node [anchor= 234] at (234:2) {1};
\node [anchor= 270] at (270:2) {6};
\node [anchor= 306] at (306:2) {2};
\node [anchor= 342] at (342:2) {3};
\node [anchor= 378] at (378:2) {5};
\node [anchor= 414] at (414:2) {5};

\end{tikzpicture}

I am having a very hard time compiling this in overleaf. It is taking too much time . Is there a way to speed this up ?

Yes because you are missing a ; after the node at (0,0), and \node ... \node throw TikZ into an infinite loop-
\node at (0,0) {$(0.\overline{0431162355})_7$} ; <------- here

@Rmano couldn't tikz catch that?

Aah! Now I see it. Thanks

@DavidCarlisle Maybe it should, is quite common to write \draw ... \node  when meaning \draw ... node, but I do not know if it's feasible-sensible to do. Henri seems long time no see so I can't ping him...

9:46 AM
@DavidCarlisle no problems with missing ; in picture mode :)

@Rmano actually I just tried it and Tikz does catch it with appropriate error message (@gaufler) I get ! Package tikz Error: Giving up on this path. Did you forget a semicolon?. to which the answer is "No I didn't, @gaufler did" but it seems unreasonable for TiKz to know that.

@DavidCarlisle you forget that Overleaf tries very hard to hide error messages

@DavidCarlisle Yes, but after that if you press "return" (like latexmk in nonstopmode) it hangs there.

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 well natually, as I am so unused to seeing error messages. Here it's worse than usual: not just a matter of saying look for the red circle, it times out and never shows you the error at all. I blame @PauloCereda
@Rmano true but it gave an error, what happens after you choose to recover from an error is "tricky"

@DavidCarlisle ;-) yes but overleaf still is trying to run it and so it does not show the error. I have a 4-minutes compile cap so I imagine it will stop sometimes and maybe show the error...

9:56 AM
@DavidCarlisle users should just restrict themself to your bug free packages and leave alone all other packages - would also solve this discussion about the size of texlive :)

...waiting (with The Wall music)
....and when it times out it doesn't give any log :-( so the missing ; is lost in combat. @yo' maybe it's impossible to fix but...

@Rmano Maybe they could do a new super-extra-hyper-premium account which gets to see the secret .log file :)

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 I am premium (so in this case I had to wait 4 minutes instead of 1 ;-))

@Rmano @gaufler this? or is this too harsh. overleaf.com/read/zxzfhxjspvcq

I love the Hercule Poirot error message! That's my favorite error message of all!

10:07 AM
Well @yo' @DavidCarlisle @samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 it seems that normally overleaf can do little --- if I let the snippet go in infinite run and then I kill it with killall -TERM pdflatex then I have no info in the .log (clearly still in the buffer...)

@Rmano yes I think my \@@end suggestion to make the error fatal is probably better than letting it fall back to an infinite loop

@DavidCarlisle I guess the problem was with ;. It did get resolved once it was added.

@gaufler yes sure that is the problem and tikz reports that error but you can not see the error in overleaf as if you ignore the error and try to scroll past (as overleaf always does) tikz goes into an infinite loop until overleaf times out and kills the job. So I was suggesting a change in tikz see my overleaf link above

@DavidCarlisle We should check what Henri thinks...

0

We're almost halfway through 2021, and in case you missed it, Community Promotion Ads are gonna be a bit different this time! TL;DR: submit and vote for ad proposals before August 2nd! What are Community Ads? Community Ads are community-vetted advertisements that will show up on the main site, or...

3

10:11 AM
@Rmano either get @JosephWright to summon him here or I may make a github issue later

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 removing all bug free package from @DavidCarlisle would probably solve the discussion too ;-)

@UlrikeFischer Let's split it in two distributions: DPCLive and BugLive :)

@DavidCarlisle Both are fine with me.

@DavidCarlisle I received the error message " Timed out. Sorry, your compile took too long to run and timed out. This may be due to a LaTeX error, or a large number of high-res images or complicated diagrams.

Learn how to fix compile timeouts" when the ; was not added
I want to remove the top header in the above slide
but I am not able to do so.

@gaufler yes that is an error from overleaf (not from tex) as it let the job run for as long as is allowed. tex was in infinite loop. But tikz could be changed so that it did not loop here (or perhaps it could be changed)

10:14 AM
@gaufler \setbeamertemplate{headline}{}

@gaufler Can you make a minimal working example?

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 minimal and beamer? hmm

@DavidCarlisle actually yes, because beamer loads everything but the kitchen skink, the actual document can be very minimal :)

10:20 AM
\documentclass[compress]{beamer}
\mode<presentation>
{
\usetheme{PaloAlto}
\useoutertheme[footline=authortitle]{miniframes}
}

\usepackage{array}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\usepackage{beamerthemesplit,amsthm,amsmath}
\usepackage{amsmath,amssymb,graphicx,tikz,amsthm,dirtytalk,mathtools}
\usepackage{MnSymbol,blindtext,hyperref,geometry}

\geometry{papersize={12.8cm,10cm}}
\PassOptionsToPackage{height=1cm}{beamerouterthemesidebar}

\usetheme{Antibes}
\usepackage{graphicx}
@gaufler ^^^ move \setbeamertemplate{headline}{} after you load all your themes

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 Can I keep the header but let only the frame title to appear there ?

@gaufler you can't do this \DeclareMathOperator{\Q-spec} TeX names can not contain a - (more or less the truth)

@gaufler off-topic: you don't need hyperref, amsthm,amsmath, amsmath,amssymb,graphicx,geometry,xcolor -- beamer loads all these stuff

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 Oh! I didn't know that. Thanks

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 I was going to say you only need array and graphicx :-)

10:24 AM
@gaufler Quick hack \setbeamercolor{frametitle}{fg=black}\addtobeamertemplate{frametitle}{\vspace{1.3cm}}{}
@gaufler However I'm not sure why you want to duplicate information. Why have a navigation in both the sidebar and the headline? Why show information about the talk both in the footline and sidebar? Isn't this a waste of space and stealing attention away from your talk?
@DavidCarlisle I think my argument of beamer examples being minimal because they don't need package was just destroyed by loading every package one can think of :)

The side bar contain the section names and I have frames within those section with different titles. So, I need the header to contain nothing but the frame title and the sidebar will contain the section name.

@gaufler sorry, I misunderstood your question. I will show you some code in a second
@gaufler Try this \setbeamertemplate{frametitle}[default]\setbeamertemplate{headline}{}
@gaufler Have you considered using the \usetheme[⟨options⟩]{PaloAlto} instead of your combination of different themes?

10:52 AM
\documentclass[compress]{beamer}

\usepackage{array}
\usepackage{tikz,dirtytalk}
\usepackage{MnSymbol,blindtext}

\usepackage{amscd}
\usepackage{caption}
\theoremstyle{plain}
\newtheorem{result}[theorem]{Result}
\newtheorem{proposition}[theorem]{Proposition}
\newtheorem{conjecture}[theorem]{Conjecture}
\newtheorem{question}[theorem]{Question}
\newtheorem{observation}[theorem]{Observation}
\setbeamertemplate{theorems}[numbered]
\numberwithin{theorem}{section}
\theoremstyle{definition}
\newtheorem{calculations}[theorem]{Calculations}
@gaufler ... and better don't use math mode for your thank you, this messes up the kerning of the letters. There is a long list of calligraphic fonts at tug.org/FontCatalogue/calligraphicalfonts.html

11:22 AM
@AlanMunn updated memoir should now be available.

Can I ask what the default array stretch is?

@soupless 1

Ok, thank you

1 hour later…
12:46 PM
@DavidCarlisle then, what should I use for better figure placement in general?

1:03 PM
@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 Thank You so much!
@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 I didn't know about that.

@gaufler you're welcome!
@raf I'm normally using [htbp]

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 thanks.... does the order matter? first try to be in h, then t, then b, then p?

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 thank you!

1:28 PM
\begin{tikzpicture}
\draw[<-] (108:3) arc (108:-250:3);
\node at (0,0) {$(0.\overline{0431162355})_{7} \times$};
\node [anchor= 90] at (90:3) {$(1)_7$};
\node [anchor=-90] at (90:3){0};
\end{tikzpicture}

Is there anyway to make the "<" symbol large ?

@daleif Thanks!

@raf if there was a general answer to that there would not be an optional argument. But note the argument is optional so in most cases you shouldn't use it at all, the document class sets what it wants for default positioning and the option just gives a user over-ride of that. But mostly it is just restricting things, so if the figure+caption is more than 70% of the page height then using the option and not including p means the figure is not allowed anywhere

20

I would like to make the width of an arrowhead larger. Is there a simple way to do this without defining a new arrowhead type? For instance, I would like to be able to write something like \draw[->,arrow head width=20pt]. To see what I have in mind, and why, consider the following: \documentc...

@raf no

Thank you, I understand it now.

1:33 PM
@AlanMunn Thank You!

@DavidCarlisle The quote issue I was discussing earlier is not fully understood to me. Can I post it as a question on the main site?

I'd like to get JabRef to show the authoryear-ibid BibTeX style in the preview. Surely this would be a common request? Do you know if the code is captured on citationstyles.org ?
I think I might just use APA to preview my references in JabRef, then use authoryear-ibid in LaTeX.

@raf anyone can always ask questions on the main site:-)

:)

@ahorn This seems like an odd thing to want. ibid only seems to make sense in running text, not in a preview surely?
@ahorn I don't use JabRef but I assume there is a sort of template for the preview display that is changeable? Is so then you could probably make it use biblatex and biber for the preview to get the style you want.

1:50 PM
@AlanMunn which programs do u use for bibliography management?

@raf I'm a Mac user, so I use BibDesk (similar to JabRef).

Currently, I am using Zotero. Need to check them too. Thanks.

2:05 PM

{%
\usebeamercolor[fg]{author in sidebar}
\vskip-1cm\hskip10pt
%\insertpagenumber\,/\,\insertpresentationendpage\kern1em\vskip2pt%
}

If I were to make the arc moving in anti-clockwise direction. How should I proceed ? Is it even possible ?
\begin{tikzpicture}
\draw[<-] (108:3) arc (108:-250:3);
\node at (0,0) {$(0.\overline{0431162355})_{7} \times$};
\node [anchor= 90] at (90:3) {$(1)_7$};
\node [anchor=-90] at (90:3){0};
\end{tikzpicture}

@gaufler see my github link above:-)

@DavidCarlisle I really had a hard time today for that semi colon.

2:35 PM
@gaufler The syntax is wrong, it should be \addtobeamertemplate{⟨element name⟩}{⟨pre-text⟩}{⟨post-text⟩} instead of \addtobeamertemplate{⟨element name⟩}{⟨pre-text⟩}

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 yes I made a mistake there. I corrected it though. BTW, would it be possible to make the arc rotate ? Can the animate package be of any help ? If yes then how should it be done ? Could you help me with this ?

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer, @PhelypeOleinik, @egreg Re: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/601658/… - it's the \everypar change

@JosephWright yes, I was just looking. I suspect it too, but breqn isn't really easy. Do you already know where the change matters?

@JosephWright Good to know: another reason for avoiding it. ;-)

@gaufler Possible yes, but the code would be a bit long for chat. Why not take it to some Q&A site? For example Stackoverflow has a nice beamer tag: stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/beamer

2:42 PM
Hello, someone using MiKTeX here? It seems there has been a major update recently; is it possible to smoothly update from MiKTeX-2.9?

@UlrikeFischer No, I've no tracked it down yet

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 Okay, Thanks.

@egreg You really don't like breqn, do you? I've always thought it's a great idea, just needing a re-working to go from experimental to production ready

@JosephWright I've yet to see where it does better than properly using align or similar.

@AlexG well I do have miktex but normally I take care to update regularly as doing large version jumps can be a bit tricky ;-).

2:44 PM
@JosephWright In several instances it does much worse

@UlrikeFischer Now it is called MiKTeX-21.*, no more MiKTeX-2.9, it seems. Is a complete re-install necessary?

@egreg I did say 'reworking to be production ready' ;)
@egreg I guess I really like the idea that one doesn't use display math mode at all beyond the need to measure the previous line

@AlexG yes I know, but I can't answer the question. I had no problems to update from 2.9 to the first of the 20.x number (whatever it was). But I don't know what will happen know. You will have to try.

@JosephWright Well, I disagree it's a good idea to begin with. I admit it might be useful for those walls of formulas that are so common nowadays and usually mean nothing at all, besides showing Mathematica's capabilities (or other similar software)

@egreg You don't fancy properly disabling  in LaTeX?

2:49 PM
@UlrikeFischer So just running the update through 2.9's package manager might work?

@JosephWright That would be a good idea, actually. But it would break so many documents… :-(

@AlexG yes.

@egreg Perhaps - I'm not so sure (it's a question of making \$ active, using inline math + \displaystyle for all 'display-like' material, etc.)

@JosephWright Not really so simple. You need to disallow a page break and to know where the previous line ends in order to decide between short and long skips.

@UlrikeFischer Thanks, I am asking because of this question on the main site: tex.stackexchange.com/q/601661

3:06 PM
@egreg but in many situations doing a better job by hand isn't a possibility, for example if you are trying to force machine generated expressions, or expressions formatted for the wrong page size into a new text width. So it would be good to get breqn working even if the advice for a thesis would be to spend the time to get it right by hand.

@egreg The latter is what breqn does use TeX's display math for, but it's purely a measuring step, then typesetting is done using inline math mode

@DavidCarlisle Machine generated expressions are mostly completely useless. Just add a link to the code generating it and it's much easier to read and to type.

@egreg but then what would Nasser do? :-)

@DavidCarlisle :-D

53

Several questions about how arc is computed: The start and end angles seem to be defined relative to the y axis, yet in the Tikz manual they are defined relative to the x axis. Is this right? Is the end angle defined between the y (or x) axis and the incoming path, or between the y (or x) axis ...

3:12 PM
@egreg but it's not just 50 page long CAD expressions think of a wiki with math (mathml or mathjax or whatever) that is automatically breaking at different screen widths, with a button that says "generate latex" it would be nice to tell it to generate a two column article with half a chance that the math fitted on the page

@DavidCarlisle I'd be curious to see the output of breqn in two-column format, but I'm quite sure my eyes would bleed.

@egreg that's why you have to get @JosephWright to re-write it first, so he can blame @UlrikeFischer if things go wrong.

@DavidCarlisle That's a good idea!

@JosephWright oh is this the same double skip issue that hit varwidth I wonder....

3:27 PM
@DavidCarlisle Could be I guess

3:38 PM
@Rmano Thank You!

@DavidCarlisle 👍

@JosephWright I'm wondering about how you handle the attributes in luacolor. I see you set them only in lua. are they then attached to all following nodes?

@UlrikeFischer I hope so :)
@UlrikeFischer The idea was that as we have Lua interfaces for a Lua concept, I'd avoid needing TeX stuff here as much as possible

@JosephWright ;-) ok how does it work? And does it recognize tex grouping? I'm just pondering over the tagpdf code and wonder what to do with the primitive \setattribute calls.

4:08 PM
@UlrikeFischer As far as I know, it should work exactly the same as \setattribute, it's just I'm using it from Lua to avoid needing a TeX-based allocator, etc.

The 2021 edition of community promotion ads has just been installed on meta, and I've started by copying some of the continuing items into the question. If you agree, please upvote. (6 votes are required for an ad to activate, but who knows whether that number may be increased.) And if you have additions, do add them. I'll see what I can do about getting a TUG 2021 announcement added.

4:29 PM
@barbarabeeton you might want to look into an TUG 2022 ad. The ads will be displayed sometime after August 2nd and be locked until next year (if I understand the new system correctly)

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 -- Thanks. (I did read the TL;DR item on the "master" meta site, and left some comments too.

@barbarabeeton Other communities also have this problem: meta.stackexchange.com/a/364770/237989

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 -- Dates for TUG 2022 can't be set until at least the end of this year, and it won't even be certain that it can happen at RIT until they get their ducks in a row. (We're keeping our fingers crossed.)

4:45 PM
@barbarabeeton I'll keep my fingers crossed as well!

5:17 PM
4
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle What do you think? ^^

@PhelypeOleinik oh for community ad thing here?

@DavidCarlisle Yes

@PhelypeOleinik looks fine it could have some words saying what it is, but it possibly looks more eye catching without, make people click through to find out

@DavidCarlisle I thought about adding “Do you want to” at the very top. Pun-ish, but probably understandable
@DavidCarlisle There seems to be a top-banner add now (728 x 90 px). I could do one of that with a few more words
@DavidCarlisle Not as nice, I think ^^
@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright Banner version ^^^

5:38 PM
@PhelypeOleinik મારી ભાષા ક્યાં છે?

@DavidCarlisle ટોચનો જમણો ખૂણો?

@PhelypeOleinik Looks good to me

@DavidCarlisle (I don't think I understood the question then)

@PhelypeOleinik Look at the language of David's question.

5:42 PM
@PhelypeOleinik the answer was supposed to be: sorry it is not there yet

@DavidCarlisle Oh :)
@DavidCarlisle Followed by an invitation to translate
@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright I'll post then. If a new translation comes up we can update the image

2 hours later…
7:41 PM
@JosephWright -- "reworking" is a bit of an understatement, I think. That opinion remains from Mike Downes' conclusion that he was willing to turn it over to someone else, a decision that had little or nothing to do with his illness. @egreg -- But it's (supposed to be) automatic, so ideal for someone who doesn't want to do much work. (Although it could make life easier for someone with a disability.)

7:52 PM
@PhelypeOleinik -- You're almost certainly not responsible, but I think the arrangement of the accents on the "e" in "Tieng" (Viet) isn't proper. See Unicode 1EBF at unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1E00.pdf

8:16 PM
How to obtain header like the latter in Copenhagen theme ?
I want my section my sections to appear in the header in that fashion.

@barbarabeeton oh well spotted: ế does appear better on the site itself I think:

@DavidCarlisle -- Yes. That's what I understand to be the desired arrangement. (Even if I have absolutely no idea of how to obtain it.)

@barbarabeeton C-x 8 <ret> 1ebf <ret> as @PauloCereda would tell you I'm sure.

8:44 PM
@barbarabeeton Hm... (Very, very) nice catch! This seems to be a misfeature in the Latin Modern OTF font:
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\newfontfamily\lmr{lmroman10-regular.otf}
\newfontfamily\ncm{NewCM10-Book.otf}
\newfontfamily\ebg{EBGaramond12-Regular}
\begin{document}
\lmr Tiếng Việt

\ncm Tiếng Việt

\ebg Tiếng Việt
\end{document}
@barbarabeeton I can fake a better position for the acute

@PhelypeOleinik -- Thanks. Please do. (We like to set a good example.)

@barbarabeeton ^^^
@barbarabeeton I should report this to the maintainers of those fonts too

@PhelypeOleinik -- Yes, and yes!

9:42 PM
@DavidCarlisle You're slow…

@egreg but making pictures
@egreg oh did you post the answer before me? I didn't get a ping from the system when I posted, I'll assume I was first:-)

@DavidCarlisle You can check the time stamp…

@egreg you are correct that I could do that.

@DavidCarlisle Four full seconds!

@egreg OP just gave a link to where he got the old code it's one of yours tex.stackexchange.com/questions/49246/… I was going to leave a note there but as it's yours do you want to?

9:52 PM
@DavidCarlisle Changed the code

@egreg thanks

@DavidCarlisle And guess who got the tick…

@egreg fitting as you provided the wrong code in the first place.

1 hour later…
11:27 PM
Thanks@DavidCarlisle