TeX, LaTeX and Friends

3:30 AM

thanks for letting me know. I haven't yet examined what CJK fonts are available on the current system, but our (Japanese TeX) latest default font is "haranoaji", and it would be fantastic if it is available on the system.
https://ctan.org/pkg/haranoaji

@Rmano Yes, of course, you can set TEXDOCS. It is a normal kpse variable like TEXMFHOME. You can set it either with an environment variable or within the texmf.cnf.

@DavidCarlisle I checked that the system already have the Haranoaji font. So, I think at this point, it is already great.

David Carlisle

7:43 AM

@wtsnjp it has a full texlive 2020 so anything in texlive should be there and it's debian stretch so anything available via apt package could be added or for a Chinese example I just copied babelstone.co.uk/Fonts/Download/BabelStoneHan.ttf into a local font directory

Joseph Wright

twitter.com/github/status/1369129888662306819

David Carlisle

8:03 AM

@JosephWright it let me back in though:-)

@JosephWright at least some documents worked texlive.net/stats.txt

David Carlisle

8:20 AM

pre-emptive breakfast

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@PabloGonzálezL oh my, I think I never used the GUI thingy... I will investigate

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle you could blame me for the failures - I provoked a number

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I did blame you (didn't comment on it as no need to state the obvious!)

Paulo Cereda

If Skynet Takes Over, Try Writing ‘Robot’ on Your Shirt

Tricking a terminator into not shooting you might be as simple as wearing a giant sign that says ROBOT, at least until Elon Musk-backed research outfit OpenAI trains their image recognition system not to misidentify things based on some scribbles from a Sharpie.

Paulo Cereda

8:48 AM

THE DANTE 2021 MEETING WARM-UP THINGY STARTS TODAY

2

Paulo Cereda

9:12 AM

A chemist froze himself at -273.15°C, everyone said he was crazy but he was 0K.

@JosephWright ^^

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda 0x0030 != 0x004F

Rmano

Looking for Windows10 advice: given that I have been given a laptop that I have to use with Win10, what is better: 1) install a native TeXLive + vim or 2) install that in the WSL2 thingy?

David Carlisle

@Rmano if you are using vim it doesn't really matter, your life will be miserable anyway

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle nah Levenshtein of 2, it's fine :)

Rmano

@DavidCarlisle no, installing Emacs in both places is not an option anymore (ossification)

@DavidCarlisle I knew! ;-)

Paulo Cereda

9:19 AM

@Rmano David is a bit upset recently

yesterday, by David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I NEED EMACS

David Carlisle

I use the cygwin texlive (have done for years) will probably switch to wsl2 at some point but as I use the cygwin x server cygwin's fine. I have never used the native windows texlive @Rmano

Rmano

@PauloCereda Anyway the darn new laptop (which is nice otherways) has the CTRL in the wrong place, so it would be a nightmare

Paulo Cereda

@Rmano oh no

Ulrike Fischer

@Rmano well the windows texlive has Akira -- and this means you sometimes get newer binaries ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooh

David Carlisle

9:21 AM

@UlrikeFischer cygwin has gcc and make: you can have as new binary as you want:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle beep

Rmano

Paulo Cereda

@Rmano THIS IS UNHOLY

Rmano

...and the friggin Fn is bios-controlled so even I knew how to personalize the keyboard (I have a personal layout in Linux) that would be untouchable.

David Carlisle

@Rmano the important thing is z is in the right place so you are way ahead of @UlrikeFischer already

Rmano

9:24 AM

@UlrikeFischer what is Akira?

David Carlisle

@Rmano s/what/who/

Ulrike Fischer

@Rmano Who is Akira

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer so slow

Rmano

@UlrikeFischer Ah (sorry) that's the next level of gender misshap (blushing)

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I was shocked by the curious symbol on the keyboard.

Paulo Cereda

9:25 AM

ooh the Z key

David Carlisle

@Rmano needed for ZZ

vim skills, I have

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh

Rmano

@DavidCarlisle I have also F2 set to :update, but the keyboard defaults to the stupid bios controlled things on the F-keys row, and forgets the friggin Fn-lock on reboots... so lowering the volume each time I want to save.

samcarter_waiting_for_summer

What is the first thing the telephone provider asks when you call them from a landline because your sim card is not working? "May we sent you a text message with instructions how to fix the problem?" arrrrrrg!

Ulrike Fischer

@Rmano Akira maintains w32tex and builds the windows binaries, tug.org/texlive/doc/texlive-en/texlive-en.html#ack

Rmano

9:34 AM

@UlrikeFischer Thanks!

samcarter_waiting_for_summer

3

^^^ Do they test with \if .... \fi?

Joseph Wright

@Rmano Does everything you need to use TeX with come from WSL? If for example you ever want to use a native GUI, or say a third-party application using TeX, it will be awkward - easier to use native TL

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer ooh

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer still relevant: twitter.com/paulocereda/status/1229783564801265666

samcarter_waiting_for_summer

@PauloCereda :) sorry for the trigger :)

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer <3

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer I am so looking forward to your talks tomorrow! And @UlrikeFischer's too! :)

samcarter_waiting_for_summer

9:40 AM

@PauloCereda <3 I'm also looking forward to @UlrikeFischer's talk tomorrow! (mine will be on Thursday)

@PauloCereda Will you be at the warm-up tonight?

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer ooh schedules

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer YES! Looking forward to it, although I can only talk in English... :(

samcarter_waiting_for_summer

@PauloCereda Yeah! I'm confident there will be enough English speaking people that you won't be bored :)

TeXnician

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer If Germans try to speak English you will never get bored ;)

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer I can always sing Schnappi, das kleine Krokodil :)

Rmano

@JosephWright yes, this could be a concern. maybe I should go native so I can better help the PhD students that have not yet embraces Linux... (-> all of them, really)

samcarter_waiting_for_summer

9:47 AM

@PauloCereda ... at least the schedule for Dante is fairly easy with only one link for zoom. For another conference someone had the brilliant idea to use another zoom room for every talk. Having to logout, copy the new link and log in again after every talk is so distracting.

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer oh my! This is surreal!

David Carlisle

@JosephWright (@Rmano) for me it's rather the other way round, everything I use is cygwin (or if I switch, wsl) the commandline, the editor etc, so a windows tex would be an annoyance as I would constantly have to map between the file path as seen in the posix layer with the file path as seen by the native windows tex.

samcarter_waiting_for_summer

@PauloCereda ... in summary: I'm looking forward to Dante!

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer ooh

Rmano

@DavidCarlisle hmmm... will think a bit more. Anyway --- I am correct that there are only 32bit binaries for windows? I suppose that's not a problem.

@DavidCarlisle I have yet to stabilize the Xserver experience in WSL2. Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails.

David Carlisle

9:51 AM

@Rmano I've not switched to wsl for day to day use but I have tried it a few times (against the cygwin X server)

Rmano

@DavidCarlisle I am trying with sourceforge.net/projects/vcxsrv --- it works as far as the WSL2 don't get confused about the network across suspensions... which sometimes happens. Trying to dig it...

Ok, going to invigilate an exam. Ready to put the several mask/screens/whatever things.

Thanks everybody for the hints.

Ulrike Fischer

@Rmano in w32tex.org you find also 64bit binaries. But there are not needed often, I only use them if luatex fails on some large cjk font.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer or a windows installed curl binary for l3build upload :-)

Paulo Cereda

@Rmano you could get a streamer deck: elgato.com/en/gaming/stream-deck

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle right, there was problem too. But I don't know if it still exist. The last update worked without it.

David Carlisle

10:15 AM

@UlrikeFischer it did? you must have installed curl somewhere, unless micoroft have added a 32 bit one

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Sure

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle well I did sent on sunday newpax with texlive 21 + l3build to ctan and it worked, but that was from my laptop, and it is old so it could have something from previous installations.

Joseph Wright

@Rmano You could of course install both

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I have never actually dared use the l3build upload, I always upload the zip via the web form:-) I never trust my own code

2

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Tell that to @DavidCarlisle's AWS machine :)

David Carlisle

10:21 AM

@PauloCereda I would guess @Rmano's new laptop has more than 8Gb disk installed

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle github.com/seanyeh/vibreoffice

@DavidCarlisle ooh 15GB

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda This repository has been archived by the owner. It is now read-only. just like vim itself, you can not write files

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I'm not using it everywhere. I actually trust your code, but I'm not trusting me to update all the necessary files to get the announcements right ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ZZ

Joseph Wright

10:40 AM

tug.org/board.html

YAY

David Carlisle

@JosephWright OH NO is more natural response

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle /quacks in delight

David Carlisle

@JosephWright you don't want to know what the pub is putting on for the weekend special takeawy lunch this week...

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright OH NO

oh wait

@JosephWright /joins quacking

Phelype Oleinik

@JosephWright I should find something to complain to the board...

Joseph Wright

10:42 AM

@PhelypeOleinik 'You have been elected Chairman of the Board; pay each player £50'

Phelype Oleinik

@JosephWright TUGopoly

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright OH NO

Phelype Oleinik

@JosephWright Do ducks even have all that money?

Paulo Cereda

Jul 28 '14 at 21:25, by Paulo Cereda

5

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda LOL

@PauloCereda I need this now. For reasons

Paulo Cereda

10:45 AM

@PhelypeOleinik <3

Homer Simpson, We're in the money

►

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda Hm, that's the second time someone send me this clip today... Curious

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik oh no

Plergux

12:11 PM

@PauloCereda "You have put text in a math environment, go back four squares." :p

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux oh no

Plergux

@PauloCereda You used TeX to do your thesis. Go forward four squares. p

@PauloCereda XD

@DavidCarlisle yes, but no so much more --- a meagre 200Gb (if I had 1T, there would be a double boot there, well hidden ;-))

Paulo Cereda

12:19 PM

@Rmano ooh we need Full 4k squirrel videos

@Plergux "You used longtable in your thesis. YOU WIN THE GAME."

TeXnician

@PauloCereda You finished your thesis and your LaTeX use dropped, go to jail for the rest of the game ;)

Rmano

;-P no videos, please. Could you believe that the best doc to write Gnome Shell extensions is *a set of videos*?
BTW, congratulations

Paulo Cereda

@TeXnician oh no

TeXnician

@PauloCereda You would have an advantage by never finishing your thesis :D

Paulo Cereda

@TeXnician ooh a plan

Plergux

12:25 PM

@PauloCereda XD "Somebody asks you and you don't know who Donald Knuth is. You lose the game." :p

@TeXnician ugh... I'm so fed up with it by now I can't wait for it to be over XD

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux ooh

TeXnician

@Plergux Well, @PauloCereda surely misses all those “finished your thesis” messages that distracted David from only writing about food ;)

Paulo Cereda

@TeXnician ooh

TeXnician

@PauloCereda Finished ~~reading~~ your thesis?

Plergux

@TeXnician XD Mind you, I did have the mad idea of translating it and making it into a book. :p

Paulo Cereda

12:30 PM

@TeXnician oh no

/quacks in despair

@Plergux ooh could you do it in verse?

Like thesis poetry or something

Plergux

@PauloCereda Well, it would certainly be an epic. My thesis is 500 pages already in prose. And when you do verse you have to repeat and elaborate and metamorphise and stuff. :p

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux ooh it's Dante all over again: Inferno, Purgatorio and Paradiso. :)

Plergux

@PauloCereda :D

@PauloCereda Too bad I can't do it in ancient Italian XD

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux ooh skills

Laughter at the least that’s loud
with the volume of a crowd.
Humor should also have wit
with a wrenched psychology to it,
by giving respectable words
meanings patently absurd.
After all, laughter is a gift
that gives the spirit a needed lift.
And don’t be, with an arsenal, stingy
ooh someone put pineapple in this pizza thingy

Adapted from The How of Humor :)

Rmano

12:51 PM

@Plergux icsrizzoli.it/galeottofugiotto/… (about colors in Dante's Divina Commedia)

Plergux

1:03 PM

@PauloCereda :D

@Rmano Cool! :D

Paulo Cereda

@Rmano ooh

Skillmon

1:50 PM

@PauloCereda counter-ooh!

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon hi mr. rabbit! <3

Skillmon

@PauloCereda Hi, Mr. Duck!

Joseph Wright

3:04 PM

@DavidCarlisle tex.stackexchange.com/questions/586502/…

@DavidCarlisle Thought I should mention the excellent location

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Better mention the dungeon, or else!

We have pizzas :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda and dragons?

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz ducks, there are already two of them. :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda as long as you spit fire!

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz UK-TUG MOTION: provide jalapeños in the next meeting

:)

Stefan Kottwitz

3:12 PM

@PauloCereda I vote for habanero peppers (not weaker, not stronger)

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz I have absolutely no knowledge about peppers, to be honest. :)

I know about rocoto pepper from a Peruvian colleague, maybe @JairoA.delRio can confirm the spiciness. :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda Good to know! Perhaps go with the ghost pepper first, or the carolina reaper.

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz This is a trap, isn't it? :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda Watch a youtube video first!

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz uh-oh :)

Joseph Wright

3:17 PM

latex.net/texlive

3

Stefan Kottwitz

Girl requires oxygen after eating world's hottest pepper

►

Paulo Cereda

We ducks are very gullible :)

@StefanKottwitz OH MY NO

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda Try the "2 girls in bikini try TeXlive.net" video, that was Joseph's link above

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz definitely not a clickbait. :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda The clickbait would be: Four girls in bikinis try TeX for the first time.

Paulo Cereda

3:22 PM

@StefanKottwitz ooh

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda rock hard, right

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@Paulo I did not dare to tweet this. Do you? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz LOL

@StefanKottwitz You could login to Zoom with the name "Definitely not Stefan" :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda sounds like a VR pₒrn account

@PauloCereda error: name already taken

Paulo Cereda

3:35 PM

@StefanKottwitz Stefan[0-9]+ :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda Thanks for the suggestion to register as "Definitely not Paulo" at some sites!

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz oh no

/quacks in despair

@StefanKottwitz will you attend the pre-meeting today? :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda That's the girl in red, right? Sure!

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz Yep. :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda I got her phone number and TeX code.

Paulo Cereda

3:41 PM

@StefanKottwitz ooh and ssh login session :)

@Plergux twitter.com/DavidDPaxton/status/1368968080181854209

Stefan Kottwitz

26

Q: How to color a girl's skin

My usual what-can-I-plot-today resulted in this: It's based on the math function by mikuszefski posted on mathematica.stackexchange.com. I implemented it in TeX with pgfplots this way: \documentclass[tikz,border=10pt]{standalone} \usepackage{pgfplots} \pgfplotsset{ width = 7cm, compat =...

Paulo Cereda

o.O

David Carlisle

@StefanKottwitz "on" not "one" in "That’s how it looks like one a web page"

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle thanks!

Those machine learning AI bloggers.

Alan Munn

I'm getting an error in my document that I can't figure out. The first two sections work, when I get the the third \section it fails. Commenting out that section then makes it fail on the next section etc.

Plergux

3:50 PM

@PauloCereda lol. an argument can be made that they're all from the "viking language" :p

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux ooh

Joseph Wright

DANTE fun started?

Topical of course:

1

Q: What are the annual conferences to develop the LaTeX?

What, where and when annual conferences are held to develop the LaTeX?

@JosephWright 7:30PM

@PauloCereda Oooh

@JosephWright looking forward to it. :)

@JosephWright 7:30PM FMiT

@barbarabeeton mayday, mayday! twitter.com/RoyAlbatrossCam/status/1368153295634636804

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer hi! Which time will the room be opened? :)

samcarter_waiting_for_summer

4:01 PM

@JosephWright The French user group has also resumed their meetings: gutenberg.eu.org/-Journees-GUTenberg-

@PauloCereda at 7:30PM FMiT :) [I have no idea if it will open before, you can always login earlier and zoom will show you a waiting page and automatically adds you once the room is open]

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer ooh thanks :)

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer and speaking of ducks and the subject of peppers: twitter.com/hyxpk/status/1369317083792703491

Joseph Wright

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer Yes, I know, but I wonder if the scale is 'big enough' [and yes, I have been to one of their meetings as keynote speaker :)]

samcarter_waiting_for_summer

@PauloCereda Is this an image of the Bär on the paper bag?

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer OMG it totally is!

@JosephWright ooh fromage

gutenberg.eu.org/IMG/pdf/JosephWright.pdf

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- Yup. Albatrosses were made to soar, not to land. That's why they're called "goony birds". Midway Island was paved with many runways during WWII, to support an airplane stopover and supply area. The main inhabitants now are albatrosses, and I believe they "take off" with a running start on the disintegrating runways. But they clearly haven't mastered landing.

Paulo Cereda

4:09 PM

3

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda :)

It's Alright Ma, It's Only Witchcraft

►

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton oh that's interesting! Thankfully, there's the saying, "any landing you can walk away from is a good landing". :)

@JosephWright ooh smooth TeX

samcarter_waiting_for_summer

@PauloCereda Oh, and there is another one in the window!

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer ooh it's the Bär store!

Jairo A. del Rio

@PauloCereda Rocoto is delicious, but indeed very spicy :) We have a variant called "monkey's d*ck" ( NSFW word) which is only for the brave

Paulo Cereda

4:21 PM

@JairoA.delRio ooh :)

Jairo A. del Rio

Alan Munn

@JairoA.delRio These are called Fresno peppers in the US. A staple in my house.

Paulo Cereda

@JairoA.delRio I've seen them around. :)

samcarter_waiting_for_summer

@JosephWright They invited me to give a talk in French, something which I have not done in ages -- I'm already panicking :)

Joseph Wright

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer Tres bon

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer I spoke in English when I went

Paulo Cereda

4:36 PM

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer Yay! <3

samcarter_waiting_for_summer

@JosephWright :)

@JosephWright Half the words are anyway the same between English and French, aren't they?

@PauloCereda :)

Paulo Cereda

Less than 2 hours for Dante! I cannot wait!

We could start our own pre-meeting

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda but that is after dinner

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

Phelype Oleinik

@DavidCarlisle That's why he cannot wait

David Carlisle

4:43 PM

@PhelypeOleinik is there a schedule for the evening meeting?

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik oh no

David Carlisle

oh no: xmltex talk

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

Phelype Oleinik

@DavidCarlisle One without any z dante.de/veranstaltungen/dante2021/programm

David Carlisle

@PhelypeOleinik I read that but for today it just says ab 19:30 Uhr Vorabendtreff I wondered if @PauloCereda knew what was planned since he couldnt wait

Paulo Cereda

4:46 PM

@DavidCarlisle oh

Phelype Oleinik

@DavidCarlisle Vora-bend-treff... Apparently this Vora person will bend something :)

I am good at German!

Alan Munn

I finally figured out the issue. Is this a bug?

\documentclass[12pt]{article}
\usepackage[pagestyles]{titlesec}
% uncomment this to see the error
%\newpagestyle{main}{%
%\setfoot{}{}{}
%\sethead{}{}{}}
%\pagestyle{main}

\begin{document}

\section{Cat\label{cat}}

\section{Duck}

\end{document}

When the \label command is inside the \section and the pagestyle is declared, it chokes.

I always assumed that \label can go inside the element being labeled.

If it's outside of the \section then it works. If it's inside the \section it works so long as a pagestyle isn't declared.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle typically we eat at some restaurant and simply talk at the evening before. This time they will talk over zoom, and the people who will give a talk will have the opportunity to test the equipment so that they can panic early enough if it doesn't work ;-)

3

@PauloCereda ^^ The Bär is waiting too.

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooh <3

Ulrike Fischer

5:01 PM

@AlanMunn well normally it should, but titlesec does quite often its own stuff and is not always compatible.

Alan Munn

@UlrikeFischer It came at a very inopportune moment, on a document I needed to have finished by a particular time and the error that arises is not very helpful.

Ulrike Fischer

@AlanMunn well I normally avoid titlesec for this reason: it is often quite difficult to debug.

Alan Munn

@UlrikeFischer Yes, it took me quite a while to figure it out.

@UlrikeFischer But I like the functionality of titlesec

David Carlisle

5:18 PM

@AlanMunn inside is normally better

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle Yes, exactly, so this surely is a bug. I've added an issue on Javier's repo

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle 'Better' being a rather selective way of putting it: 'more easily controlled by TeX at the cost of poor user syntax' would be my statement

Alan Munn

@JosephWright :)

Some nice person just accepted my answer and ruined a nice palindrome rep. :(

Pablo González L

@PauloCereda Snif, so far I have found tlcockpit :D it has a very nice graphical interface (apparently it is written in java), even so I am intrigued to see the interface in tcl running in fedora :(

Paulo Cereda

@PabloGonzálezL Oh let me check now, hold on

Pablo González L

5:27 PM

@DavidCarlisle Does LaTeX online have another name?

@DavidCarlisle I mean ` latexcgi.xyz`?

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- Gordon liked this too.

Joseph Wright

@PabloGonzálezL @StefanKottwitz has provided a more powerful backend, hosted at texlive.net

Pablo González L

@JosephWright Great ... Will have to update the button name to compile in learnlatex :)

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton ooh :)

@PabloGonzálezL sudo dnf install perl-Tk suffices

Stefan Kottwitz

@JosephWright hardware is a 12 core 256 GB RAM 4 TB HDD machine with 1 Gbit/s Internet :-) (won at a reverse auction)

Pablo González L

5:35 PM

@PauloCereda Errr...yep, but here you will see the old interface written in TK, not the tcl version.

Paulo Cereda

@PabloGonzálezL tcl version?!

@PabloGonzálezL the combo is Tcl/Tk, with the first being a programming language and the latter a graphical user interface toolkit.

Pablo González L

@PauloCereda Ha...that's why in Windows it looks different...mmm

@PauloCereda And why does this fail ./install-tl --gui tcl?

Paulo Cereda

@PabloGonzálezL I don't know, I only use CLI. :)

Pablo González L

@PauloCereda I have been installing in text mode for years...strangely enough I can use the tlmgr gui(TK and everything needed is installed), but I could not install by launching the graphical window...it has me puzzled.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I was thinking "doesn't mess up the document spacing in hard to predict cases"

@PabloGonzálezL try texlive.net

Paulo Cereda

5:44 PM

@PabloGonzálezL well, tlmgr has no mention to this GUI window you talk, perhaps it might be something very specific in the installation.

tcl (or "perltk" or "wizard" or "expert" or nothing)

    The Tcl/Tk user interface (default on Windows). It starts with a small number of configuration options, roughly equivalent to what the former wizard option offers, but a button Advanced takes you to a screen with roughly the same options as the former perltk interface.

@PabloGonzálezL ^^ same thing, it seems

Pablo González L

@PauloCereda Ok, tlmgr does not mention it, but, it is the one installed by default in windows (it is different from the classic one in TK).

David Carlisle

@PabloGonzálezL (@JosephWright) I wondered about that but the "latex online" button was so called because I originally used LaTeX.Online but I didn't change it when I switched to LaTeX-on-HTTP so it may be best to change it in the end but no rush (it impacts all the translations)

barbara beeton

@AlanMunn -- Have you tried \protect? (Although \label has undoubtedly been (re)defined as robust.)

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton /secret duck mail

Pablo González L

@PauloCereda Los Patos NO saben guardar secretos :D

Paulo Cereda

5:49 PM

@PabloGonzálezL solo los secretos non muy secretos :)

Pablo González L

@PauloCereda Jejjej

@DavidCarlisle Yes, it is named in several places (besides the button)...it can wait...The one it is now served on is much more powerful...thanks @StefanKottwitz

Paulo Cereda

@PabloGonzálezL different in layout, you mean?

Pablo González L

@PauloCereda Yes...Now I was able to get the blessed screen in TCL...I just had to install some tcl dev libraries.

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton Good call! Yes, that does seem to fix the problem.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I thought 'LaTeX Online' was a pretty reasonable name anyway

Pablo González L

5:54 PM

@PauloCereda It doesn't have everything that's in the old TK interface, but it brings almost the same...in the world of cell phone screenshots, my images didn't match my students' :(

Paulo Cereda

@PabloGonzálezL stick with tlcockpit then. :)

Pablo González L

@PauloCereda It has a simple and beautiful interface :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright it is but I do worry if it's a bit unfair to latex.online.cc also if we add context and plain tex and optex and ... Stefan's blog post calls it texlive.net (it would be good actually to name the service distinct from teh current URL to the current host. latexcgi would be a good name for that except no one knows what it means

barbara beeton

@AlanMunn -- Years of experience with AMS document classes, When a heading with \label inside is used in a running head, it always blows up. Similarly when it's used in a toc. (So I disagree strongly with @DavidCarlisle on this point.)

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton you can disagree, but I'm right:-) label in blowing up in the page heading is a bug in the class. A label after the section heading puts a \write node in the main vertical list and this will adversly affect spacing in some cases.

Joseph Wright

5:58 PM

@DavidCarlisle Sure: we can just go with texlive.net and be nice and clear

Paulo Cereda

@PabloGonzálezL Yes. :)

Joseph Wright

@barbarabeeton We've been talking about this on the team in the context of learnlatex.org/en/lesson-09, and I think we all agree that the ConTeXt approach would be better with 30 years hindsight :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I was thinking to leave it for a while check everything is stable then probably translate the buttons which in most cases I could do as it's just the button text in ascii but the non latin scripts a bit harder so I'd need to ask for translations

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- But what about the toc? And how to make sure that hyperref links to the actual heading, not one of the secondary instances?

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton the standard latex table of contents and page head code explicitly makes \label a no-op to allow its use in the section heading and the hyperref one is a case in point, if label is in the heading the destination node is avtually in the line with the heading text, if the label is after the heading he destination node is on the main vertical list at a somehat unspecified position with respect to the vertical space round the heading. hyperref takes a guess of where you really meant

Pablo González L

6:04 PM

@DavidCarlisle I have a question (probably an idiotic one) that maybe you can clarify for me.I know that the name LaTeX is associated with Leslie Lamport and that pdfTeX is associated with Han The Thanh, when using pdftex --version I get the name of Han The Thanh` (and others), when using pdftex --version I get the same, why don't I get the name of Leslie Lamport anywhere?

David Carlisle

@PabloGonzálezL pdflatex is just a link to pdftex and pdftex --version gives the author details to the binary LL is not involved at that level

Paulo Cereda

24 minutes for the DANTE meeting warm-up thingy!!!!!!

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda 15 minutes to dinner !!!!!!

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- The AMS document classes started out as clones of article, etc., so when was this treatment of \label added? Granted, hyperref didn't exist at the beginning.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

/quacks in despair

David Carlisle

6:07 PM

@barbarabeeton always, from the start latex 2.08, probably

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle Haaa...I get it, making a parallel is like TeX language and TeX the program.

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- Then that failure should never have happened. ???

David Carlisle

@PabloGonzálezL more that latex is written in tex, Leslie wrote latex, but he didn't write tex,

@barbarabeeton exactly, but then bugs are never supposed to happen.

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle I think I understand now...it was an existential doubt I had years ago :)

David Carlisle

@PabloGonzálezL if you write a program in C it doesn't mean that you can add your name next to Stallman as having written gcc

Pablo González L

6:11 PM

@DavidCarlisle Oh yes, that's true (just use an "h" in the oh so as not to dull the marker of @PauloCereda).

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle the label doesn't create a destination, that is the \refstepcounter command.

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer I am lost in the Zoom call. :)

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda ?

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer I entered the pre meeting. :)

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda did it already started? I'm just making tea ...

David Carlisle

6:20 PM

@UlrikeFischer ah that's true, details:-)

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer it's a pre-pre-meeting :)

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle but code-details, not documentation-details.

Paulo Cereda

6:42 PM

DANTE Frühjahrstagung 2021 is on!

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Ausgezeichnet

@PauloCereda Was stimmt?

@PauloCereda Geht gut?

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright hallo, ich bin ein Ente

@JosephWright ein Bier, bitte

@JosephWright Mein Hovercraft ist voller Aale

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda :)

Stefan Kottwitz

Ein großes Bier für die kleine Ente bitte!

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz ooh I got that

<3

Joseph Wright

6:57 PM

@StefanKottwitz :)

David Carlisle

7:34 PM

@PauloCereda it means "drink beer when eating duck"

David Carlisle

9:19 PM

Tue Mar  9 21:18:42 UTC 2021
  Number of distinct users:      55
  Number of document requests:  294
  Number of documents returned: 278
  Number of unique user agents:  34
Tue Mar  9 06:24:53 UTC 2021
  Number of distinct users:      20
  Number of document requests:  211
  Number of documents returned: 196
  Number of unique user agents:  15

@StefanKottwitz new server getting used ^^ (now I managed to get back in:-)

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle Remember the numbers before I connect the forums ;-)

David Carlisle

@StefanKottwitz that's Ok it's your machine anyway:-). If you do add the forums do you allow the referer header or block it? I used to separately list the learnlatex.org count but after the site redesign learnlatex.org blocks refrer so I just give totals

@StefanKottwitz also you jinxed my ISP... after telling you had I had a practically stable IP address, last night they dropped the connection unexpectedly and when it came back on I had a different address, fortunately I could access the aws console to let myself into latexcgi.xyz and then log in to texlive.net from there and allow my new address:-)

Stefan Kottwitz

9:40 PM

@DavidCarlisle Boss I don't block headers and you can edit the the hosts.allow file

David Carlisle

@StefanKottwitz yes thats what I did but to edit hosts.allow you need to be able to log in. fortunately you had added the latexcgi.xyz ip address so once I got in to there I could get back to your server and edit. I'm tempted to re-allow referer header from learnlatex I am not sure blocking it really helps anyone

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle Public web sites and public content, it should be ok to pass it

David Carlisle

@StefanKottwitz that was my feeling

Transcript for

$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends