TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2020-08-21

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1:09 AM

@barbarabeeton The rest of the announcement says "For the case that you as author are not willing or able to use our LaTeX template, we'll be recommending typesetters who are familiar with us and the template, and who will be able to typeset your manuscript in LaTeX for reasonable rates before you send it to us."

8 hours later…

9:14 AM

@UlrikeFischer ooh

9:39 AM

user image

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ^^

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz You have got a twin: tex.stackexchange.com/users/220031/eva

@AlexG ooh a doppelgänger

@PauloCereda Yes, could be a doppelgänger as well. @samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz may tell us.

@AlexG ooh the plot thickens

@UlrikeFischer, @MarcelKrüger I decided to just re-install ConTeXt/LMTX

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

9:44 AM

@AlexG Probably also a confluence user, that's where I got my picture from :)

ooh a blasé gator: twitter.com/GatorsDaily/status/1296115025489408001

is there a way to use blindtext or lorem to get a fixed number of words?

I want to use it to fill some items

@MarcelKrüger I was re-reading the ConTeXt Wiki - I see Hans has decided that LuaMetaTeX is already 'safe' to use as the main ConTeXt binary ... seems brave

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz ooh today is the day of the secrety secret thingy?

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@PauloCereda Yes, it is! I hope you have popcorn ready for chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/info/193903/…

9:48 AM

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz Oh, what's a confluence user? (I am still learning)

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@AlexG atlassian.com/software/confluence

something like a wiki with some extra stuff

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz OOH

Hello,

If I have a text stored in a command by \newcommand{\CourseCode}{MEA 313}
Is there an easy way to use the stored string without the interspaces?

In other words, I need to use the stored text somewhere else after removing all the interspaces.

@MarcelKrüger How much more work is needed to get expl3 back working with LMTX?

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz I always assumed it were made with TikZ.

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

9:57 AM

@AlexG I'm very sorry to disappoint you :)

@AlexG what if it is a TikZ node with an \includegraphics in it? :)

@PauloCereda Only little comforts me...

@Diaa You can make space active and define it to expand to nothing ;)

@AlexG ~~/duck hug~~ /socially acceptable, distance-friendly duck-approved greeting

@PauloCereda Under these circumstances only real hug helps

10:02 AM

@AlexG oh

in the end copy and paste was my friend :)

> China is building a GitHub alternative called Gitee

@JosephWright why did something broke?

@UlrikeFischer No, I just hadn't got it on my laptop

@UlrikeFischer Reading the LuaMetaTeX manual, pondering the whole backend business, do wonder if l3backend-pdftex/l3backend-luatex would make sense, as the latter could end up as all-Lua to work with LuaMetaTeX (bearing in mind @DavidCarlisle's long-term thoughts)

@UlrikeFischer I was mainly working on @PhelypeOleinik's new data structures and wanted to check what the new set up does; we likely will need to adjust things like \c_sys_engine_str to give the right output (@MarcelKrüger can handle that!)

@JosephWright ah, I haven't updated it for week, I should perhaps check the state (which means that I need to remember, where I installed it ;-))

10:08 AM

@UlrikeFischer I'd not spotted that Hans had changed context to run LMTX rather than MkIV as-standard; I thought he was going to keep it separate (as for MkII vs MkIV)

@UlrikeFischer, @MarcelKrüger I see Hans has dropped \long ... I guess he never worries about checking input :)

@JosephWright I'm not sure if there was an announcement. There were a few messages about changes, but I didn't pay attention about that time.

@UlrikeFischer I can't think of seeing one either, hence my surprise

Someday ImageMagick will finally break for good and we'll have a long period of scrambling as we try to reassemble civilization from the rubble.

3

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@Anush Try

\documentclass{beamer}
\beamertemplatenavigationsymbolsempty
\setbeamersize{text margin left=10mm,text margin right=5mm}
\setbeamertemplate{frametitle}[default][center]
\usepackage[many]{tcolorbox}

\usepackage{calc}

\begin{document}
\begin{frame}[fragile]
\begin{tcolorbox}[text width=\textwidth-1cm, text height=2.5cm]{}

\end{tcolorbox}

\begin{columns}[onlytextwidth]
\begin{column}{0.4\textwidth}

    \begin{tcolorbox}[top=0pt, left=5pt,right=5pt, colback=blue!5!white, text height=4.3cm]

\end{tcolorbox}

@JosephWright Just merging the intarray PR is enough for LuaMetaTeX in general, then copying the \read commands from the LuaMetaLaTeX repo gives a working LMTX build. I planned to finish the luacmd branch first and then rebase intarray on top of that, but if we want to have expl3 working in LMTX faster I can do that first.

@JosephWright If you install the LMTX version context was the "new" ConTeXt launcher for LMTX from the beginning of LMTX distribution. In contrast to texexec vs. context there has not been a change of names (and tools, all Lua) this time. The idea is that you have separate installations so switch paths if necessary.

10:21 AM

@MarcelKrüger No great urgency for me, I just wondered where we are: so loading expl3 should be fine soon-ish (I think ConTeXt LMTX provides Lua-based \pdfvariable, etc., so we still have some hope of stuff working, although they are not all proper primitives)

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@Anush The source of the problem is that the combined with of your columns sums up to 1\textwidth, thus not leaving any room for the space between them. With onlytextwidth you force them to stay within the text width and not go into the margin

@TeXnician Ah: my point was Hans was calling it LMTX so I assumed he'd keep it simple and have context and lmtx at the command line ... I know it's his call, but it seems a little risky to me

@JosephWright He wants people to transition anyway and it's a lot smoother than MkII → MkIV has been (for MkIV → LMTX I had none of my documents not work which is really far smoother) so I guess it's more or less his way to say “if you install LMTX (which does not come with an update to MkIV) then use it because that's what will be supported”.

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz I didn't know about onlytextwidth . Thank you. Are both boxes now fully flushed to the left? I can't tell

@TeXnician I get that; a difference of approach, like I said

10:26 AM

@JosephWright Reminds of some people swapping out luatex for luahbtex when calling lualatex ;)

@JosephWright Right, but especially for \pdfvariable there probably isn't support for the tokenlist based variables (Support for Lua based tokenlist variables is missing in the engine), so I guess that some stuff will break there. But I guess that most uses of expl3 are less about the backend part, so we should be fine.

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@Anush With the example I posted above, they should be aligned at the left margin (I had to remove the hard coded width of your second box because this did not match the column width)

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz I still don't fully understand what moves the right hand column to the left and right. If I just change the column width it doesn't do what I expect

@TeXnician That's different because luahbtex behaves exactly the same (except for places where it shows it's name) as luatex with a luaharfbuzz shared library in the searchpath. So basically the engine didn't change, we only shipped an additional library (hidden in the engine binary)

\documentclass{beamer}
\beamertemplatenavigationsymbolsempty
\setbeamersize{text margin left=10mm,text margin right=5mm}
\setbeamertemplate{frametitle}[default][center]
\usepackage[many]{tcolorbox}

\usepackage{calc}

\begin{document}
\begin{frame}[fragile]
\begin{tcolorbox}[text width=\textwidth-1cm, text height=2.5cm]{}

\end{tcolorbox}

\begin{columns}[onlytextwidth]
\begin{column}{0.47\textwidth}

\begin{tcolorbox}[top=0pt, left=5pt,right=5pt, colback=blue!5!white, text height=4.3cm]

\end{tcolorbox}

if I change the 0.53 to 0.55, say, it doesn't seem to move the bullet points to the left as I would expect

how can I shift them to the left slightly?

to give myself more room

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

10:31 AM

@Anush It can't because 0.47+0.55 >1, so not enough room

hmm.. but there is room on the page. I just want to sacrifice a little whitespace

@MarcelKrüger Of course you are right. My point was more or less that for ConTeXt MkIV vs. LMTX the behavioral changes to the end user are also quite minimal (non-existent for me). Of course I get there are edge cases where they are different and especially the implementation is quite a change. But well, I'm just a user…

without decreasing the width of the box on the left

@TeXnician What @MarcelKrüger said ;)

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@Anush you can change the leftmargini

\documentclass{beamer}
\beamertemplatenavigationsymbolsempty
\setbeamersize{text margin left=10mm,text margin right=5mm}
\setbeamertemplate{frametitle}[default][center]
\usepackage[many]{tcolorbox}

\usepackage{calc}

\begin{document}
\begin{frame}[fragile]
\begin{tcolorbox}[text height=2.5cm]{}

\end{tcolorbox}

\begin{columns}[onlytextwidth]
\begin{column}{0.47\textwidth}

\begin{tcolorbox}[top=0pt, left=5pt,right=5pt, colback=blue!5!white, text height=4.3cm]

\end{tcolorbox}
\end{column}
\begin{column}{0.53\textwidth}

(1cm just to demonstrate the effect, you will want a smaller value)

10:33 AM

another trick I didn't know!

@MarcelKrüger Well as we discussed on teh team list, having a Lua-based 'primitive' is fine if the behaviour is the same as the classical one, but I see at least some of the 'replacements' are macros, so for expl3 they should be undefined (which I might add to l3names at some stage)

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@Anush there are infinitely many tricks in beamer - I still discover new ones all the time!

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz which manual should I have read for all these tricks ?

the beamer mannual?

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz :)

@MarcelKrüger My point was that we likely can address this anyway by moving more of the backend for LuaTeX to Lua anyway: it should work with LuaTeX as much as LuaMetaTeX, and then we don't have the issue

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@Anush Don't know, but if you find the ultimate list of all beamer tricks, please sent me the link :)

10:36 AM

:) will do!

it's a good name for a document

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@Anush The beamer manual is a good starting point but for some stuff one has to look into the source code

@JosephWright I really don't have an overview of how LMTX does things, so where are they using macros? Anyway, the LMTX pdfvariable is not a macro but behaves quite different from the LuaTeX primitive (It dosnot expand to an internal register but directly acts like a register)

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz :(

@JosephWright probably, I mean even if they share stuff in the dtx: having two distinct files is probably easier to handle at the end.

@MarcelKrüger E.g.

\starttext
\show\pdfvariable
\stoptext

@UlrikeFischer Yes, I'm tending that way: I think I'll update and merge later today

@UlrikeFischer I'm just pondering naming: I liked pdfmode but once you need separate files, probably pdftex and luatex or similar in the names are better

@MarcelKrüger In LTMX, \pdfvariable is a macro, that's my point, so one can't argue it's 'primitive-like'

@MarcelKrüger Possibly \clf_pdfvariable is OK ...

10:44 AM

@MarcelKrüger do you know what is the difference between xdv and dvi? I mean could luatex write something that would pass as xdv regarding open type fonts?

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@Anush why the sad face? Source code can be fun!

@JosephWright Oh, I wasn't aware of that. But we only have to switch to the \clf_ versions there if available. Then we will observe that they behave a bit different than the old primitives though.

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz I believe you, for the right person :)

Skillmon likes topanswers.xyz

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz but beamer source code?

@MarcelKrüger Like I said, probably for LuaTeX I should look at re-writing all of the backend code using the Lua interfaces anyway, as that works directly with LuaMetaTeX and avoids the issue

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

10:47 AM

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Absolutely! I like riddles :)

@UlrikeFischer Version number is different (we don't have any influence on that) and font selection commands for OpenType fonts are different (we can't change them either), so we can't use the existing DVI backend to generate XDV. I have a half of a DVI backend in Lua somewhere which I started in an attempt to switch it to XDV later, I'll see if I find it.

@MarcelKrüger it is not really pressing, I only thought about it yesterday when reading Yannis question. The other question is if xdvipdfmx could adapt to the format created by luatex.

1 hour later…

12:07 PM

@JosephWright I sent you another Skype message...

1 hour later…

1:15 PM

learnlatex.org/es/help

@UlrikeFischer apart from the version identifier I think there are a couple of extra op codes, I think dvisasm documents them somewhere

@DavidCarlisle who made it?

# XDV opcodes
NATIVE_FONT_DEF = 252;
GLYPHS = 253;
TEXT_GLYPHS = 254;
# XDV flags
XDV_FLAG_VERTICAL = 0x0100;
XDV_FLAG_COLORED = 0x0200;
XDV_FLAG_EXTEND = 0x1000;
XDV_FLAG_SLANT = 0x2000;
XDV_FLAG_EMBOLDEN = 0x4000;
# DVI identifications
DVI_ID = 2; DVIV_ID = 3; XDVI_ID = 6; XDV_ID = 7;

@UlrikeFischer tug.org/TUGboat/Articles/tb28-2/tb89cho.pdf

@DavidCarlisle I was asking about the spanish ;-) But this is interesting too, I already used dviasm a few times, it is really quite useful.

@UlrikeFischer Podría decirte que lo hice todo yo solo.

@DavidCarlisle soy un pato

1:27 PM

@DavidCarlisle and I would naturally believe you.

@UlrikeFischer so naive:-) github.com/learnlatex/learnlatex.github.io/issues/66

@PauloCereda Tu eres cena

@DavidCarlisle oh no

/quacks in Spanish

1:42 PM

@DavidCarlisle I would naturally also believe you that you believed that I believed you ;-)

@UlrikeFischer ooh

2:10 PM

@JosephWright regarding the number "optional" overlay argument of beamer: you do know that it can be everywhere between the arguments? And there can be even more than one (the last one wins):

\documentclass{beamer}
\newcommand<>{\makered}[2]{{\color#3{red}{#1}--{#2}}}
\begin{document}
\begin{frame}
\makered<3>{XXX}<4>{YYY}
\makered{AAA}<2>{BBB}
\end{frame}
\end{document}

@UlrikeFischer Yes, I know about that!

@UlrikeFischer That's i guess marmot's argument: xparse doesn't actually provide for this

@UlrikeFischer I looked at it ages ago: I think it's there as Till allowed things to be 'wrapped up' so having a trailing <> was handy

@JosephWright not sure if it is the argument, I doubt that many people know this (or even use it).

@JosephWright what would be a sane way to test "is this latex or something else (plain, context whatever)"?

@UlrikeFischer \fmtname

@UlrikeFischer I suspect very few people use it, just saying that marmot's viewpoint is that this is beamer's business, and loading xparse suggests we are 'interfering'

2:33 PM

@UlrikeFischer related question I came about yesterday: \textbf supports <1>, why can't I also use <2| alert@3>?

The syntax works for \item

@daleif Huh?

@daleif that's an action, and not implemented everywhere. But you can use \action: \action<alert@3>{\textbf<1>{abc}}

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@daleif you can build yourself a command that understand this with \action (instead of \only as used for textbf)

@UlrikeFischer ups, you are tooo fast!

@daleif try \newcommand<>{\foo}[1]{\alt#2{\action#2{\textbf{#1}}}{#1}}

is CTAN down?

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@yo' no?

2:49 PM

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz ah loaded now, just took super long

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@yo' :) Maybe this was meant to give you time to get a coffee

ooh more island secrets

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@PauloCereda and ducks are good at keeping secrets, don't they?

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz ooh we are :)

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz ducks are the bestest

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@PauloCereda That sounds heavenly! 34C here :(

3:02 PM

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz ooh more language skills :)

It's very cold today, 13C!

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda 2 here :-)

@PhelypeOleinik ooh :) I read about snow, is it true?

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@PauloCereda See message above, I accidentally edited instead of replying ...

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz ooh it's very hot!

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

user image

3:06 PM

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz during a meeting? :-)

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz nice, never even heard of \action....

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@yo' that's what wireless headsets are for!

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda The forecast was a tad too eager :-) Shame I didn't get to see the snow, but on the bright side the oranges for next year won't die

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz ooh

@PhelypeOleinik :D

@yo' emergency coffee :)

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz erh, what is the use syntax for that?

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

3:09 PM

\documentclass{beamer}

\newcommand<>{\foo}[1]{\alt#2{\action#2{\textbf{#1}}}{#1}}

\begin{document}
\begin{frame}

\foo<2-| alert@3>{test}
\end{frame}
\end{document}

@PauloCereda given how hot it is again here: emergency ice cream

@yo' yaaaay

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@yo' That's the best idea I've heard today!

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz oh, I was using it on \foo<2| alert@3>{Test} which does not work, it needs the 2-

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@daleif mmmm, true

3:18 PM

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz for our use case, I just redefined what \alert does, works fine. (non-bold seems fidly)

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz :-)

2 hours later…

5:52 PM

Why does this plot nothing?

\documentclass[margin=3mm, tikz]{standalone}
\usepackage{pgfplots}
\pgfplotsset{compat=newest}
\begin{document}
\begin{tikzpicture}[font=\footnotesize,]
\begin{axis}[]
\addplot3[]
gnuplot {
set parametric
splot cos(u)*cos(v),sin(u)*cos(v),sin(v)
};
\end{axis}
\end{tikzpicture}
\end{document}

user image

I put

9 mins ago, by cis

Why does this plot nothing?

into a question: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/559548/…

6:08 PM

@PhelypeOleinik I tried to integrate your gh373 branch into my local "test everything branch", but it doesn't unpack correctly. Should it work?

Phelype Oleinik

@UlrikeFischer That's what I'd hope... What went wrong?

@PhelypeOleinik I got a bunch of error when using l3build install. Some dtx is perhaps missing a guard. Can you install your head with l3build install?

Phelype Oleinik

@UlrikeFischer Seems to work... Maybe I have some leftovers. I'll try cloning a clean copy

@PhelypeOleinik let me try first. Perhaps I messed up the merging.

@PhelypeOleinik hm. Your head installs. Now I need to find out where the point is that it fails.

Phelype Oleinik

6:25 PM

@UlrikeFischer “Your head installs” would sound weird out of context :)

@PhelypeOleinik WE ARE BORG

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda EXTERMINATE!

@PhelypeOleinik er... wrong continuity? :)

@PhelypeOleinik ;-) I think I missed a conflict in ltexpl.dtx the first time.

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda Daleks aren't good at references :-)

@UlrikeFischer Ah. I did change that one quite a bit...

6:38 PM

@PhelypeOleinik ooh Davros

@PhelypeOleinik it failed again ;-( When unpacking ltfiles. I don't understand it, it wasn't changed by the merge.

Processing file ltfiles.dtx (2ekernel) -> latex.ltx
! Spurious end block </2ekernel|latexrelease> ignored.
\slashOption ...urious end block </\tmp > ignored}

Phelype Oleinik

@UlrikeFischer You merged it into develop or lthooks2?

@PhelypeOleinik into everything. As I said this is my "try everything branch" (I don't expect it to work all the time, and I have thrown away quite a number of this branches already, but thought it would be a good idea to check a bit what the various branches do if combined.)

Phelype Oleinik

@UlrikeFischer I'll try merging in a bit to see what happens

6:54 PM

@PhelypeOleinik there is a lonely end guard in ltfiles.dtx:

user image

Phelype Oleinik

@UlrikeFischer Ah, right. In lthooks2, after the definition of \@include there's a %</2ekernel|latexrelease> missing.

@UlrikeFischer What editor is that?

@PhelypeOleinik winedt.

Phelype Oleinik

@UlrikeFischer Ah, Windows :(

@UlrikeFischer That's a nice feature, to see the guards

@PhelypeOleinik yes, you can better see if one is missing or if the nesting is off and you can click on it and jump to the line. I don't use such trees much normally, but for the guards it is really useful.

Phelype Oleinik

@UlrikeFischer Indeed, especially for dozens of lines with <latexrelease> one after the other... I'm trying to install it on Wine :-)

7:15 PM

@PhelypeOleinik isn't there one too much?

Phelype Oleinik

7:26 PM

@UlrikeFischer Hm... I'm not sure, but I think not. That block contains the definition of \@include for the kernel and for the roll-forward thingy, so I think it should be inside %<*2ekernel|latexrelease>

7:38 PM

@PhelypeOleinik then a start guard is missing, not a end guard.

Phelype Oleinik

user image

@UlrikeFischer Missing end, missing start, and extra end. This latexrelease thing is too confusing

@PhelypeOleinik ;-) Do you want to repair it or should I ask Frank?

Phelype Oleinik

@UlrikeFischer I added to my comments on the PR

@PhelypeOleinik on which one?

7:58 PM

Is there a way to search for foo$ on the site? I'm trying to find any discussion of the .bst duplicate$ function, but predictably I'm getting tons of "closed as a duplicate" hits that I don't want.

Phelype Oleinik

@UlrikeFischer Sent them just now

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

8:19 PM

@AlanMunn Did you try code: in the search box?

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz No, but I've just tried it now and it doesn't seem to help.

samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz

@AlanMunn tex.stackexchange.com/search?q=code%3A%22duplicate%24%22

(maybe narrow it down with is:q)

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz Ah, I hadn't used quotes.

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