@AlanMunn What about defining macros? At the top, or close to where they are being used?

@FaheemMitha in a class or package file, defining macros is pretty much all there is, so tat comes to the same thing doesn't it?

@DavidCarlisle I meant locally defined macros for a possibly one-time use. Like in some specific piece of text, so simplify something, for example.

If it's close by, it's easier to see and modify.

@FaheemMitha Alan's comment was about how to structure a class file, so one-time use macros and text are not that common

@MarcelKrüger I will try to prepare a luaotfload update. What about the mathparams branch?

@UlrikeFischer I merged the branch into dev last night, I think it should be fine to ship it. (I don't think that anyone seriously wants their text font to define math parameters.) But I'll try to add a note to the documentation, especially how to revert the change using font features.

@MarcelKrüger I'm just collecting the changes and adding them to the docu. If you tell me what to write I can add it too.

All: I'm working on the learnlatex stuff, and wonder what 'extra advice' I could add for tables. I'm thinking about creating column types and aligning numbers - anything else?

@JosephWright things that come up often here, need to use \arraybackslash or \tabularnewline` with p columns using \raggedright and friends, perhaps something about X columns (and not over using them:-) something about not simply scaling tables to fit., something about multipage tables.

@JosephWright threeparttable?

@DavidCarlisle OK, I'll assign that to you then ...

@DavidCarlisle You are the tables expert ;)

@JosephWright OK I'll try to add something later

@DavidCarlisle Thanks: I'll look at L09 a bit later then

@JosephWright Multirow and multicol stuff?

@FaheemMitha \multicolumn is in the main lesson; I'd rather not cover \multirow as most of the time it's the wrong solution

@JosephWright Ok.

I don't see what's wrong with multiple rows. Sometimes one wants multiple rows.

@FaheemMitha in a well-formed table, you put the 'multi' part in the first row

@FaheemMitha but it's almost always best to put the entry in the first row

I now forget what multirows does. I thought it was just to create a row (or part of a row) that pans multiple rows.

@FaheemMitha yes

Well, that sounds like a reasonable thing to want to do.

@FaheemMitha Like @DavidCarlisle says, most of the time one can present without this approach, but in any case the learnlatex content is meant to be a 'core' set of ideas, and we have to be selective

@JosephWright Ok. But aren't multirow and multicol similar? I don't see why one would choose one over the other.

@UlrikeFischer Basically it's just: "In new luaotfload versions, math parameters will only be loaded for fonts with script=math. If you do want to set math parameters for fonts with other scripts, add -nomathparam. We strongly recommend against setting math parameters for text fonts becuase these would overwrite parameters from actual math fonts."

@MarcelKrüger ok

Did everyone try out the new Overleaf 'pick your TL version' feature?

@JosephWright you mean the "texlive version" in the menu? Is it new? (I use overleaf so rarely ...).

@UlrikeFischer Yes, that: I spotted it on Twitter so took a look (I rarely use Overleaf either)

@JosephWright I tried to pick 2020 :-)

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle Won't be long, I suspect: there are new goodies ...

@AlanMunn -- Language rules (at least, words): nytimes.com/2020/04/30/nyregion/…

@MarcelKrüger I have prepared the upload. I also pulled the context files (but could revert this). But I get one failure then in arab2. Perhaps you could take a look, it is in the master-3.13-context branch:

***** .\BUILD\TEST\arab2.tlg
   23:  542><1616><983487><983615><1616>[12:13]<985740><1614><984676><1618><984717><1611><1575>[12:13]<983646><1614><983503><1616><9846
   24:  76><984717><1611><1575>[12:13][13:0]<987326>[13:0][13:0]<987318>[13:0]<1757><-TRT>[14:2][12:15]
   25:  [2:0]
***** .\BUILD\TEST\ARAB2.LUATEX.LOG
   23:  542><1616><983487><983615><1616>[12:13]<985740><1614><984676><1618><984717><1611><1575>[12:13]<983646><1614><983503><1616><9846
   24:  76><984717><1611><1575>[12:13]<987326>[13:0][13:0]<987318>[13:0]<1757><-TRT>[14:2][12:15]

^^ there is [13:0] missing in the second line.

@barbarabeeton Interesting. I know Kripke the philosopher, of course. I'm not sure I liked the style of the obituary. It seems though that some university library would be happy to have the collection. It's not clear what she did with it other than collect.

@AlanMunn -- It seems that the "filing system" was totally in her head. I'm facing much the same problem with the books I have on math typography, which will go to the Museum of Printing (Haverhill, Mass). I'm compiling the bibliographic information according to their existing system, which is (unfortunately) just a rather generic spreadsheet. I was hoping for something defined with XML; I'll have to ask my XML friends what they know, then find someone who can transform that to other formats.

@barbarabeeton @DavidCarlisle knows a little about XML I believe. :)

@AlanMunn she doesn't trust me:-)

@DavidCarlisle Entirely understandable.

@AlanMunn -- I'm pretty sure you're correct; I'm also thinking of Peter Flynn.

@DavidCarlisle -- Oh, probably as far as I can throw you. Which isn't very.

@AlanMunn ooh

@JosephWright the first heading in more lessons gets duplicated it seems, looking...

@DavidCarlisle ecountered <---

@UlrikeFischer if I typed that many words with only one typo I'll take that as success

@DavidCarlisle that it that it

Perhaps the longtable should have more in the content - currently the column widths are defined by the headers.

@UlrikeFischer yes probably, just seeing how much I can put in without making the whole thing too long I'll probably end up re-writing it all anyway

@DavidCarlisle it is a bit of pity that you have to load graphics for the page size.

@UlrikeFischer you were not supposed to notice that:-)

@UlrikeFischer the table widths were defined by the contents when I wrote them, but I added the header later:-)

@DavidCarlisle sorry ;-). Couldn't the expl3 backend set the page size now too?

@UlrikeFischer only if I explicitly load expl3 I think which is a bit more than "more". The alternative (which might be better?) (@JosephWright) would be to get rid of the artificial a5 landscape and set up a small page size with geometry

@DavidCarlisle it was more a side thought, not related to the learnlatex - I know that latexonline is too old currently anyway. But geometry is probably better.

@UlrikeFischer we are hoping to fix the old latexonline though

@UlrikeFischer done

@DavidCarlisle yes but if we add now something to the expl3 backend we can't use this in the next time for learnlatex. But independent from learnlatex: should we move the page size code from graphics to the backend code?

@UlrikeFischer isn't it already in the equivalent l3 modules? I should check...

@DavidCarlisle ;-). This latexonline setup is really nice. And even without any real layout the site looks good.

@DavidCarlisle I checked ;-)

@UlrikeFischer might have known

@UlrikeFischer yes Im really impressed with latexonline it was really easy to integrate into the site (easier than the texlive.js I was using before) and basically just works apart from the fact the texlive is a bit old and it's a bit obscure who exactly is supplying the computational server.

@PauloCereda -- Here's one for you: riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-de-janeiro/…

@barbarabeeton interesting! They did a similar projection a couple of days ago making him wear a medical outfit...

@barbarabeeton any misplaced commas? learnlatex.github.io/en/more-08

@DavidCarlisle -- Well, there's one comma I'd turn into a semicolon: "The package provides many possibilities for formatting the numbers in different ways, see the package documentation." (That's as far as I've gotten. I will finish and report. Should I do that here, or send mail? You should know better than to propose such a challenge.)

@barbarabeeton done the semi, thanks, either works (or if we got your github account sorted you could leave an issue there:-)

@DavidCarlisle -- I've got more. I'll send mail.

@barbarabeeton well I'm shocked.

@DavidCarlisle -- Just a little shock. Like shorting out the jumper cables when you try to start your car with some external help.

@barbarabeeton if you scroll up a bit you'll see more-08 is definitely a first draft, the file was essentially empty until this evening.

@barbarabeeton feel free to comment on content that is or isn't there as well as commas

@DavidCarlisle -- Well, not bad then. I do intend to look at more (but I have an important TUG job that I've been putting off for far too long, so I'll do that first). In general, I like what I see.

@barbarabeeton thanks I pushed the punctuation changes (may take a minute or two to appear on site) The suggested additional content I'll leave until the weekend a bit late for thinking of words now.

@DavidCarlisle -- A couple of the "suggestions" are things I've used to tidy up tables, but they may be too off the wall to suggest to beginners. My feelings won't be hurt if you don't include them.

@UlrikeFischer The difference in the test is coming from a change how spaces are kerned: Instead of adding a kern node after the glue node, new fontloader versions directly change the width of the glue node. So it doesn't have any real effects and we can just save the new test output.

@MarcelKrüger good. I will save the new test and then upload to ctan and merge into develop and master and set a tag and set develop to 3.14-dev ... I hope I have not forgetting something ;-).

oh and upload lualibs too, naturally ;-)

@MarcelKrüger oh you adjusted the test already. I was just wondering why it doesn't fail ;-)