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5:31 AM
0
Q: ! LaTeX Error: \usepackage before \documentclass

user97380 \usepackage may only appear in the document preamble, i.e., between \documentclass and \begin{document} What does this mean and how to solve it , thanks a lot

Does anybody want to answer that? I think the error message itself is pretty self explaining.
 
6:29 AM
@DavidCarlisle expl3 drivers need a bit more work than I originally thought (re-ordering): I'll work on it today!
 
@Johannes_B how could anyone answer? Instead of \usepackage{zzz}\documentclass{yyy} try \documentclass{yyy}\usepackage{xxx}?
 
@JosephWright last night I was too tired to code anything but I looked at the sources ...
  if (fabs(det) < 1.e-8) {
    WARN("Inverting matrix with zero determinant...");
    return -1; /* result is undefined. */
  }
@JosephWright which explains the cut off point as the determinant is the square of the scale factor, although multiplying numbers that small in tex without going to the expense of loading l3fp or similar is rather unreliable. It's perhaps reasonable for the driver to check this but in the fail case I think it ought to scale by something smal not leave the text unscaled
@JosephWright plan to make a test file along the lines of
\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{graphics}

\makeatletter
\iffalse
\ifx\XeTeXcharclass\@undefined\else
  \def\Gscale@start{%
     % should check the product=determinantttt
     \ifnum\dimexpr\Gscale@x\p@\relax<8 \def\Gscale@x{0.001}\fi
     \ifnum\dimexpr\Gscale@y\p@\relax<8 \def\Gscale@y{0.001}\fi
     \special{x:gsave}\special{x:scale \Gscale@x\space\Gscale@y}}
\fi
\fi

\begin{document}

[\scalebox{0.00001}{ABCDEFG}]

\end{document}
but probably with some examples with different x and y scale factors.
@JosephWright but I'm not convinced the driver should be checking this scale by 0 seems to be well defined, both mathematically and in PDF.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:47 AM
@egreg my quote is better than your quote
 
@DavidCarlisle Mine is longer, as usual
 
@egreg mine is more deserving, as usual.
 
@DavidCarlisle, @egreg Good morning to you and good work. Excuse me but my question tex.stackexchange.com/questions/368653/… is clear?
 
@Sebastiano as we have said many times already you should ask a tex question preferably showing the tex code you have so far. If you just post a picture and ask people to draw it for you in tikz it will almost always be closed.
 
@DavidCarlisle You have right. I have thought that my question is not clear.
 
8:02 AM
@Sebastiano It wasn't closed for being unclear it was closed for being too broad, that is, unsuitable for the site.
 
@JosephWright Hi,
@ShreevatsaR hi
 
@Sebastiano so start with some tikz to make a sphere, if that fails, post what you have and ask about the error, if it works, try to add some dotted lines of longitude and if that fails ask about that error. that way your questions always have a test example to post and are asking about tex.
 
@DavidCarlisle Your observation is correct and right. I have seen on the TEX.SE site, on TeXample different spheres but with all my heart is not for bad will, and not for boredom or because I want to do the work to others with all sincerity. At this moment I'm also examining my students and unfortunately I'm having to do the work my colleagues should do.
 
What is \DeclareRobustCommand*? I mean, what does the asterisk modify?
 
8:19 AM
@DavidCarlisle I hope my question can be reopened. Hi.
 
@wilx Same as \newcommand*
 
@JosephWright Ah, the long version. OK.
 
@Sebastiano I can't see anyone voting to re-open it until you edit it
@wilx or rather not-long version
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah. My bad. I only skimmed through this answer and the first example has different order than the rest. :)
 
9:02 AM
@Sebastiano you can only one thing at the time. Concentrate on your work and your students. There is no need to recreate figures with Tikz.
3
 
9:38 AM
@JosephWright AUC-TeX bugs are off-topic, aren't they?
 
@egreg Bugs are OT if solved, etc., but if not then having an answer saying 'This is a bug' is normally useful. On the matter at hand, I'm not sure if it is, though: isn't the description of the meaning of C-c C-a simply misleading? (I read it as just meaning it runs LaTeX.)
@egreg I suspect it's not a dupe, though, on this basis ;)
 
@JosephWright The description hints that BibTeX should be run. But it isn't. I'll reopen, then.
 
9:53 AM
@egreg Yes, true, but it seems here there are some 'additional aspects'
@egreg Post an answer? (Could be CW)
 
10:27 AM
@JosephWright No. In my opinion it should be OT, being a bug not solvable on the TeX side. There's emacs.se.
 
@egreg I might ask them how they see bug reports
 
10:49 AM
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle @egreg New "secret" feature in tlmgr: tlmgr conf auxtrees add /quick/test/tree tug.org/texlive/doc/…
 
@UlrikeFischer For the same idea as in MiKTeX of multiple trees 'quickly'?
 
@JosephWright Yes.
 
@UlrikeFischer Your request?
 
@UlrikeFischer Good! There's also a shell mode
 
@JosephWright Yes. Karl asked me yesterday to test it on windows as I was the one who pestered them last year about it.
 
10:51 AM
@UlrikeFischer Ah: I'll try it out on my Mac later then
 
@JosephWright One has to be a bit careful with lsR-files: they are not updated automatically, so if need you need to add mktexlsr call.
 
@UlrikeFischer Yes I saw that
@UlrikeFischer Presumably one should use it for local trees lacking an ls-R file
@UlrikeFischer Probably an 'advanced' feature anyway
 
@JosephWright Yes. But useful too if some e.g. wants to test a new biblatex version fast and without danger ...
 
@UlrikeFischer Yes, sure, but that is 'advanced'
@UlrikeFischer Meanwhile, @DavidCarlisle and I are working on the XeTeX driver business :)
 
@JosephWright you've got mail about that just now:-)
 
10:58 AM
@DavidCarlisle Yup
 
@JosephWright It's actually really quite hard to test from tex the exact condition where dvipdfmx will error you need to calculate xscale*yscale and check that its absolute value> 1e-8 without overflowing or underflowing tex arithmetic (and preferably without the cost of loading l3fp)
 
@DavidCarlisle Hmm
@DavidCarlisle So basically use the x:scale driver and put up with the oddities is the best position at present?
@DavidCarlisle As I said over the weekend, I'll adjust the expl3 version for this and make some notes in the sources there
 
@JosephWright yes I think so.
 
@DavidCarlisle A bit of re-ordering is needed on the L3 side (I need to back-out some code sharing and that then makes the logic a bit odd at present), so might be a day or so before I update that. See what the TL list response is then send to CTAN?
 
@JosephWright if I told my colleagues here that we were testing if a matrix is invertible by calculating a determinant I'd be kicked out of the building
 
11:04 AM
@DavidCarlisle 'It's not our fault' ;)
@DavidCarlisle The correct way is to try and see if an exception is raised?
 
@JosephWright oddly I've used that reply so often, no one believes me
 
@DavidCarlisle :)
@DavidCarlisle Most people have never had the 'fun' of reading the driver documentation
 
@JosephWright as so often in numerical code you need to re-order the operations x y scale is invertible just if x and y are non zero, there's no need to calculate x*y, as you can invert just by calculating 1/x and 1/y so all you need is x and y to be within machine accuracy. A general inversion would give y/xy x/xy which mathematically is the same thing, but not if the product xy has underflowed the machine arithmetic. (even if it doesn't error you lose all numerical accuracy doing it that way)
 
Why is something like \IfFileExists{footnote.sty}{\usepackage{footnote}\makesavenoteenv{figure}}{} not a default?
 
@wilx ?
 
11:15 AM
The footnote will not show up when it is in figure caption.
However \makesavenoteenv{figure} fixes it a bit.
@Moriambar Wow! :D
 
@wilx indeed
 
@Moriambar Is that done in MS Word? :)
 
@wilx yes indeed. you have many clues such as the word compression and expansion
 
11:36 AM
@wilx only a bit presumaby
 
@DavidCarlisle Well, it is still better than no footnote at all. :)
 
@wilx possibly
 
@DavidCarlisle I just answered
 
@UlrikeFischer yes thanks, I'd wondered about that, yes probably better than pointing to a git diff
 
12:49 PM
How do one get a strikethrough?
 
@UlrikeFischer triple -
 
@Moriambar like this
 
@UlrikeFischer exactly
:37248290 you're welcome
 
@Moriambar thanks thanks. Sorry got a bit confused ;-)
 
@UlrikeFischer =)
 
12:54 PM
@UlrikeFischer although oddly it only works here, not in comments on the main site
 
@DavidCarlisle and in answers neither. But there worked html <s> </s> which doesn't work here.
 
yo'
1:21 PM
@DavidCarlisle no HTML in chat (AFAIK), I think it's both a safety measure and an implementation issue.
 
@yo' yes but it's not clear why --- doesn't work in comments on the main site
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle yeah.
 
my first step towards luaTeX ^^^^
 
1:37 PM
@Moriambar Looks like a book on programming from the early 1980s ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer well... and costs around 45€ too, but I wanted to support the Lua project. The textwidth is a bit big (conversely, the character is small) but it looks already better than the LuaTeX manual
 
@Moriambar There's an Amazon wrapping behind the book? ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer yup; that's where it came from (of course)
 
@Moriambar You've fallen to the Dark side multiple times.... using Lua and buying at Amazon. I am shattered
 
@ChristianHupfer never used lua, but I've been a faithful amazon customer since 2005, peaking last year with around 85 orders
@ChristianHupfer where should I buy from? Do you know better?
 
1:49 PM
@Moriambar At www.I-am-kidding-you.com ...
 
@ChristianHupfer damn, the page is unreachable :P Must be as Bielefield
 
@Moriambar Ah, Bielefeld, the urban myth...
 
@ChristianHupfer yup. There is a similar legend around the Milan about "Baggio's organ" (baggio is a Milan neighbourhood)
(Unfortunately I have no time to describe it in detail now)
 
@Moriambar Thought about Roberto Baggio... But he was a player from Juventus, I think...
 
@ChristianHupfer Juventus, Fiorentina, Milan, Inter, Brescia and Bologna I think
maybe Piacenza too, but I don't know
@ChristianHupfer it basically was a pipe organ (the largest in the world) which was only painted on a church wall. The myth goes that a person told everyone that he was so good playing the organ that he could play great on any organ in the world. So they bet him there was this organ he could not play, the greatest organ in the world (Baggio's). Now when someone acts like a boaster, they say "yes, go to Baggio to play the organ" (in Milanese dialect)
 
2:00 PM
@Moriambar Ah, that's an interesting legend
 
@Moriambar It's a good book (or at least the edition I have is)
 
@JosephWright we'll see... the online edition seemed kind of nice. I have quickly skimmed through the book and I saw that there are exercises (but no solutions!!!) that I don't like, but it's ok, I guess
@ChristianHupfer we could create one the great nonexistent organ of the fictitious city of Bielefield
 
@Moriambar That's too much honour, for Bielefeld :D
 
@ChristianHupfer You think that the myth is best suited never talking about the "supposed" city?
 
@Moriambar Which city? ;-)
 
2:07 PM
@DavidCarlisle: You appear to be maintaining hyperref. Would you be inclined to accept a patch to its README.xml that turns it into (Pandoc) Markdown to make it look a lot less messy in PDF?
 
@ChristianHupfer I forgot about it :)
 
@wilx @DavidCarlisle is maintaining hyperref? Did I miss something?
@Moriambar That's the correct attitude :D
 
@ChristianHupfer Well, he appears to be the only person committing to github.com/ho-tex/hyperref.
 
@ChristianHupfer :) I'm still learning
 
@wilx Ah... I was just looking into CTAN statements. Heiko Oberdiek is still listed as maintainer/author there. Sebastian Rahtz died unfortunately about one year ago :-(
 
2:15 PM
@ChristianHupfer @wilx @DavidCarlisle doesn't maintain hyperref, he is a member of the "The Oberdiek Package Support Group" ;-).
 
@UlrikeFischer I see.
 
@UlrikeFischer TOPSG ;-)
 
2:41 PM
@wilx why pandoc? (currently the xml gets turned into latex, which seems appropriate for a latex package?)
@UlrikeFischer yes one of a cast of thousands
@ChristianHupfer although he doesn't have write access to the github:-) (he could have but..)
 
@DavidCarlisle There appear to be two documents generated from the XML, LaTeX for PDF and a TXT. It is easier to get nice PDF out of Markdown than nice TXT out of LaTeX. But if you want just LaTeX for the README, it can be done as one time conversion.
I would still convert to Markdown and then to LaTeX for the one time conversion.
 
@wilx personally I would just have the ctan/github markdown and not have the xml or pdf, I can't see the point in a pdf readme really, but I'm keeping the setup as close as possible to Heiko's original. The readme is more or less "one time" as you say but the ChangeLog.xml goes through more or less the same process and needs to be built each time. But anyway I wouldn't want to make installing pandoc a requirement to build the package (I don't have it for example)
 
@DavidCarlisle Sounds reasonable
 
@DavidCarlisle I can understand that you do not want to depend on Pandoc.
So, converting just to GitHub Markdown would be OK? It would still vastly improve the readability of the README.
 
2:56 PM
@wilx I don't see that the format would improve the readme at all, the source is XML and the text and latex are generated from it via a couple of simple xslt transforms, if you have suggestions for changing the format of either they could be implemented in the xslt without changing the source format, surely?
@wilx I suspect that essentially no one has ever looked at the pdf readme so I'm not too concerned about its format:-) But suggestions for improvement welcome!
 
@DavidCarlisle Well, it seems to me that improving that output would require basically reinventing bits of Docbook or similar format.
 
@wilx the current xml is pretty dire it has to be said:
<p>Included are:
a) `backref' a package by David Carlisle to provide links back from
   bibliography to the main text; these are hypertext links after using
   hyperref.
b) nameref' a package to allow reference to the *names* of sections rather
   than their numbers.</p>
  </section>
@wilx but if I do anything I'd drop the generation stages altogether and have the changelog as a plain text GNU changelog file and the readme as a github readme.md, most likely (but other issues first like fixing some of the code issues reported....:-)
 
 
1 hour later…
4:10 PM
@ChristianHupfer Kölnisch Wasser?
 
4:35 PM
@Johannes_B Where? GoLaTeX?
 
@ChristianHupfer Jup.
 
@Johannes_B That's pretty much
 
@ChristianHupfer Nah. Most of the posts are of this kind.
 
@Johannes_B OP: I does not work -- Johannes_B: What does not work? Please post a MWE and the error log -- OP: It does not work .... Johannes_B: Please read what I wrote a few minutes ago ... OP: It does not work ;-)
 
Interesting debugging question: Under which circumstances can \includegraphics fail in this code:
  \IfFileExists{\IllustrationFolder/\IMAGE}{
    \includegraphics{\IllustrationFolder/\IMAGE}
If the file exists when can \includegraphics complain about the file not being found?
 
4:41 PM
@daleif I think \includegraphics expands \IllustrationFolder only? There were questions on this, but I can't give a link right now
 
@ChristianHupfer What doesn't work? Please give us some details. Wir können doch nicht hellsehen.
 
@ChristianHupfer hmm, maybe, will test
 
@Johannes_B Die Klassiker ;-)
 
You're right edef'ing it in a variable in advance helps, thanks
 
@daleif Blame ... eh, @DavidCarlisle ;-)
@daleif No seriously, I remember that I read a comment by Heiko Oberdiek rather recently on this issue, but I don't remember which question this was and what the precise reason for this limiting of expansion on the first macro only is.
The file name parser that is used by package graphics requires that the extension is not hidden inside a macro. Only a macro at the start of the image file name is expanded once. — Heiko Oberdiek Mar 31 at 10:33
 
4:49 PM
@ChristianHupfer @daleif No. {\folder/\image} works fine if the the image doesn't contain an extension.
 
@UlrikeFischer Ah, that's the 'limitation' ... thanks
 
@UlrikeFischer in this case it did contain an extension. It is the result of a generating function. But we could just specify it without it. But why not with the extension?
 
5:01 PM
@daleif @ChristianHupfer showed the comment from Heiko: \filename@parse (in the latex kernel) does only a expandafter. So with your two commands the extension is hidden. I don't think that one can avoid it. An \edef on a file name which could contain e.g. active chars would probably lead into disaster.
 
@UlrikeFischer in this case the user is under strict instruction that only ascii is allowed and no spaces in filenames. ;-) (this is auto generated reports)
 
@daleif If you \edef the name you will probably have a good test if they follow the instruction ;-)
 
5:17 PM
@UlrikeFischer exactly and then it is not my problem. They user is just glad they can do this in a simple manner and not using Word (they are not LaTeX users)
 
5:33 PM
I was looking at Bruno Le Floch's "unravel" package (see tex.stackexchange.com/questions/61010/… or texdoc unravel) -- it appears it implements large parts of TeX from within TeX (!). Question about LuaTeX: would this be significantly simpler to implement in LuaTeX?
 
@ShreevatsaR you could ask Bruno, but probably not I expect. The Lua side of luatex knows surprisingly little about the tex macro layer.
 
@DavidCarlisle: The README converted to GitHub Markdown: gist.github.com/wilx/7fcde361b580e1e78e6c38ce0148c2be
It definitely looks a lot better. :)
 
@wilx oohh.... having done that you've probably read it a lot more carefully than me, my impression is that it's not really a "readme" at all more some kind of appendix to the hyperref manual. I was wondering if it should be cut back a lot with the more detailed stuff being added to the pdf manual, either a new document or added inside hyperref.dtx?
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, there appears to be quote a lot of useful information about workarounds and package ordering which could part of the main manual.
 
@wilx I agree main part looks a lot better thanks. I'll see what I can do...
 
5:48 PM
@DavidCarlisle I see, thanks. I thought LuaTeX was written to make things like this easier (see what's going on inside TeX). Maybe they just haven't seen a need to implement callbacks for this part of TeX yet I guess.
 
@ShreevatsaR all the callbacks really come from "the stomach" in texbook terminology, you can not from lua really see a macro (or create macros otehr than simple ones without arguments)
 
@DavidCarlisle If you want to deal with LaTeX, here it is, converted by Pandoc from the same source: gist.github.com/wilx/b12ace4d82922848ee8e237cbf2f9e57
 
\catcode‘\Z=14 I knew it, it was meant to be somewhere
 
6:30 PM
@Moriambar ?
 
6:42 PM
@DavidCarlisle I was trying to understand whether tabulary offered something that I would use more frequently than tabularx and finished in the code of the former, and I knew that some \Z or \z variant would be there :)
 
@Moriambar oh yes, so there is:-)
@Moriambar tabularz will be better still.
 
@DavidCarlisle don't you think I searched for that? I'm a bit disappointed, though
 
@Moriambar it's in my head
 
@DavidCarlisle I believe that. Will it be the definitive tabular package?
 
@Moriambar probably not:-)
@Moriambar so far its design hasn't got past the name. So no flaws so far.
 
6:52 PM
@DavidCarlisle yes. Beware that someone might steal the name
 
@Moriambar I have auto-repeat on my keyboard tabularzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz would do just as well.
 
@DavidCarlisle lol, it could be a little tedious to include that
 
@DavidCarlisle I think your 'z' - key seems to be blocked rather ;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle perhaps a way to discourage the possible userz?
 
ßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßß
 
6:56 PM
@Moriambar \usepackage{alphalph} \newcounter{foo}\setcounter{foo}{\numexpr 26*26*26*26} \usepackage{tabular\alphalph{\value{foo}} ...
 
@DavidCarlisle way efficient. since I studied German, I never write down "ss" anymore. It's all about ß
@ChristianHupfer Oh god.
 
@Moriambar Just another way to say \usepackage{tabularyyyz}` ;-) The penultimate step before tabularzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
@ChristianHupfer I'm not familiar with alphalph nor with numexpr. But I understand
Now the choice for the evening is between reading a nice book with horrible typography or seeing what's all the fuss about lua…
 
7:13 PM
Is there any way to scale an image inserted into an answer?
@DavidCarlisle This would quickly become a certain person's favourite package.
:37258102 LOL
@DavidCarlisle You could also go for tabularyyz, also known as tabulartoronto
 
@AlanMunn is there some Canadian reference here that I don't understand? ah airport code...
 
@DavidCarlisle :) it was a self documented joke.
 
@AlanMunn jokes that need the help of google to understand the punchline are perhaps not the best
 
7:28 PM
@DavidCarlisle A @PauloCereda speciality. But I gave an exact link in the alternate name. No google required.
@DavidCarlisle You really have to stop using emacs to read the chat.
 
anyway once @JosephWright and I have sorted out scaling by non invertible matrices, I could make tabularzz apply \scalebox{0} to all tables.
@AlanMunn oh didn't spot it was a link!
 
1 min ago, by Alan Munn
@DavidCarlisle You really have to stop using emacs to read the chat.
 
@AlanMunn sorry. I'll use vim in future.
5
 
@DavidCarlisle This will lead to a whole new variety of "my table's not appearing where I want it" question. :)
 
@AlanMunn I was hoping it would stop people complaining that the colour background had obscured the vertical rules.
 
7:35 PM
@DavidCarlisle Speaking of coloured background, the paracol documentation is a tour de force. See section 10 for some competition to the colortbl docs.
 
@AlanMunn ouch don't think I'd ever read that far in before. In fact I'm sure I haven't I would have remembered
 
@DavidCarlisle It's not even clear to me what the purpose of that functionality would be.
 
@Moriambar a new choice don't read the lua book read paracol manual section 10... ^^^
 
7:53 PM
@AlanMunn is that the meaning of the rush song?
 
@Moriambar Yes!
 
@AlanMunn thank you! Now all will be different listening to that song
@DavidCarlisle ok I'm typing texdoc paracol waiting for something like colortbl and tabu
@DavidCarlisle it's not from you! That's a bit… reassuring, I guess? :P
AAAAAAARGHHHHHH MY EYES!!!!!
 
@Moriambar The rhythm is the morse code of YYZ.
 
@AlanMunn nice!
 
@Moriambar Oh, and pronounced "Y, Y, zed". :)
 
7:58 PM
@AlanMunn wait you mean the start right?
 
@Moriambar Yes.
 
@AlanMunn how else would anyone pronounce it?
iiiizz?
 
@Moriambar Well there's a whole country to the south that would say "Y Y zee".
 
@AlanMunn Well they taught me the zed spelling at school
 
@Moriambar I knew you'd like it. I saw it for the first time just now.
 
8:00 PM
@DavidCarlisle yes, it makes colortbl manual look really professional and cool
 
@Moriambar so they taught you English ;-)
@Moriambar which, of course, it is.
 
@DavidCarlisle yup, the problem is that I learned to talk a different way, due to American TV shows. I go back to English in Snooker season, thanks to BBC
@DavidCarlisle indeed
@DavidCarlisle anyway at the end of the final I started understanding Higgins… should I be worried?
 
@DavidCarlisle thank you, I'm watching it right now, even if I'll go back to snooker in december
 
@Moriambar random google hit:-)
 
8:07 PM
@DavidCarlisle first example-> I understood all the directions but only those
@DavidCarlisle it's like going in Calabria or some remote town in the mountains in… all Italy really
 
@Moriambar yes I think that's why @egreg doesn't always understand my textbook Italian, he's so used to some provincial dialect.
 
@DavidCarlisle Hmmmm…
@DavidCarlisle I'm curious whether I'll be able to understand people in London this time, and whether they will be able to cope with my terrible italian-american-jibberish accent
(last time I did not talk much)
 
@Moriambar Like when the “official” guardian of the parking lot at the Piscine in Catania told me something about my scooter (or so I believe) and I couldn't understand a word. And neither did my local friend.
 
@egreg yup My parents went to Sicily once and weren't able to understand a word in a town near Modica: the locals tried Italian first and dialect the second time around, but no way.
@egreg Around 10 years ago on a local (i.e. from around Varese) newspaper, an article was published about some guys from Napoli trying to rob a bank, but they couldn't get what they wanted since nobody understand their dialect (and the people at the bank were able to call for the police while the robbers tried to explain what they wanted exactly)
 
8:25 PM
Good evening to everybody
 
@egreg absolutely not my kind of humour, like Monty Python, but I get it :)
 
If someone has received upvote they are my :))))))
 
@Sebastiano howdy
 
@Moriambar :)))
 
@egreg maybe the article was forged. I know a guy who worked there for the sunday edition and told me it was kind of normal, in order to fill the pages, to forge some articles here and there…
 
8:28 PM
@egreg Hi
@DavidCarlisle hi
Did you receive my upvotes?
 
@Sebastiano no idea but if you have made a lot of upvotes in a short time, most likely the system will remove them all again tomorrow anyway.
 
@DavidCarlisle No I have voted 5 upvotes, egreg, moriambar, mico, hupfer and you
 
@Sebastiano randomly?
 
@Moriambar yes
 
@Sebastiano as you should know, voting is anonymous so why ask me if I received them?
@Sebastiano why? what is the point of random voting?
 
8:33 PM
@Sebastiano You should upvote the posts not the posters...
 
@DavidCarlisle So I did not leave +1 comment
@CarLaTeX I always give positive votes unless they are out of the question.
 
@Sebastiano voting is arbitrary enough as it is without you making it worse. the idea is that you vote for answers that you think are useful not that you pick some people and randomly giv ethem a few votes.
6
 
Does anyone know what font is used in the Lua manual? It has some horrible odd lowercase os (@DavidCarlisle please do not link the two Ronnies)
 
@DavidCarlisle For your skill, regardless of the demand. Availability must always be rewarded
 
@Sebastiano no you should follow the basic guidelines of the site.
5
 
8:37 PM
@DavidCarlisle I do not have time at least for now. I have to correct some of my students' tasks and try to give a hand to the bricklayers before tomorrow they go to school.
 
@Sebastiano that isn't a reply to my comment.
 
Guys i greet you i have the battery low. Soon and greet all of those good work
@PauloCereda hi paulo
good night to everybody
 
@Sebastiano so long
Speaking of which, @DavidCarlisle @AlanMunn are there specific moments where "so long" is more indicated/is not indicated?
 
@Sebastiano why do you tell us about your flippin battery every day.
5
 
@DavidCarlisle welcome to the vim alley, the initiation ritual will hurt, but it will cleanse your soul from evil emacs thoughts
Hi from the shaky bus, also 🇬🇧
 
8:43 PM
@PauloCereda there are no evil emacs thoughts
 
@PauloCereda @DavidCarlisle prepare yourself for a life of agony, first trying to enter edit mode, then vainly trying to save and exit
 
@DavidCarlisle redundant sentence, my bad
 
@PauloCereda ooh fancy unicode regional thingies
 
@Moriambar says the bloke who couldn't even pick his own editor. :)
@DavidCarlisle I haz smartphonie
 
@PauloCereda I have an editor! And it's most certainly not vim :-P
 
8:45 PM
@Moriambar atta boy :)
 
@Moriambar Mine is TeXworks.
 
@PauloCereda you should move up to a real editor
 
@DavidCarlisle I did use notepad once for LaTeX, just to see that it could be done.
 
@JasonBourne for TeX I use TeXShop, except for expl3 packages. for text I'm still sticking to nano
 
8:47 PM
@DavidCarlisle My phone has 51% of battery life left. I don't know why I am mentioning this, it seems like a trend in this chat room
4
 
@DavidCarlisle no win on my mac…
 
@Moriambar I use nano on Linux.
 
@JasonBourne nano suffers the same fatal flaws as vim and texworks
 
@DavidCarlisle should we mention ed to these boys? :)
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh. So what do you use?
 
8:48 PM
@JasonBourne I have a mac at home and usually use that; on windows I use TeXworks for LaTeX, and Notepad++ for all the rest
 
@JasonBourne they are not emacs
 
@DavidCarlisle I looked at the hype surrounding emacs. I concluded there is nothing special about emacs.
2
 
@DavidCarlisle if this were the only thing wrong with vim it would be usable :)
@JasonBourne completely agree
 
The editor works for me, not the other way around. :)
 
@JasonBourne heretic
 
8:50 PM
By the way, what is your favourite monospaced font that you use for code?
Since I am on Windows, I just use Courier New.
 
@JasonBourne wingdings
😁
 
@JasonBourne the default one, of course. But @PauloCereda pointed me to a font that I was trying to install on my work pc and whose name I don't remember…
 
OK, I want to announce that I watched 22 Bond movies. I am considering if I should watch the remaining 4 starring Daniel Craig.
 
@Moriambar sorry
I care about Moneypenny ❤️
 
8:52 PM
Any input on Daniel Crag Bond movies?
 
@JasonBourne which is about the ugliest one available, cmtt isn't bad or I've tried \setmonofont{Source Code Pro} sometimes
 
@PauloCereda why are you? It was a fantastic font, but I don't remember its name -.-
 
@PauloCereda Throughout the 22 I watched, there were several different Bonds, different Ms, different Qs, and different Moneypennys.
 
Must dash, bus is arriving! Ta-ta
 
I think they can make @egreg and @DavidCarlisle the characters Q and M in the next Bond movie. =)
 
9:02 PM
user image
12
Jabba the Hutt got 200K Congratulations!
@Mico Congratulations!
 
@egreg - Thanks so much!!!!!
 
@egreg Looks like me.
 
@Mico Sorry, but @PauloCereda is usually in charge of the cakes, but now is on the shaky bus.
 
@Mico congrats
 
As long as I get to blow out a few candles and make a wish eventually. :-)
@DavidCarlisle - thanks, David!
 
9:07 PM
@Mico Not as many candles as @DavidCarlisle for his birthday
3
 
@egreg Your birthday has more candles?
 
@Mico Congratulations!
 
@egreg - I suspect you, David, and I are all roughly the same (but of course unmentionable) age...
 
@Mico he's much older
 
@CarLaTeX - Thanks, Carla!
 
9:09 PM
@Mico I think your combined age is over 200.
 
@Mico congrats! Where's the cake?
 
@JasonBourne I don't blow them, unless somebody goes ransacking the shop, according to @DavidCarlisle
 
@Jason -- closer to 105, actually... :-)
 
@egreg I usually use no candles on my birthday cake.
 
@JasonBourne learn from me: I haven't celebrated a birthday of mine in the last 30 or so years ;)
 
9:11 PM
@Moriambar we could use this one
9
A: Christmas List / Catalog

David CarlisleLaTeX is so not designed for this kind of document. But if you must, must. \documentclass{article} \usepackage{graphicx} \begin{document} \setlength\unitlength{1cm} \vspace*{\fill} \noindent \begin{picture}(0,0)\bfseries\large \put(4,3){\includegraphics{house}} \put(0.5,5){\parbox{5cm}{\ragge...

 
@Moriambar Well, my mum always celebrates for me. =)
 
@JasonBourne mine gave up a long time ago
@DavidCarlisle nice vim reference
 
@Moriambar A lot of people think that recognize is the American spelling and recognise is the British spelling, but recognize is also used in Britain as the Oxford spelling.
 
@JasonBourne I always used the zed variation. I don't like recognise
I'm an -ize guy
 
@JasonBourne well only because the OED has (always?) not distinguished ize endings as American as a matter of stated policy, I think most people still think of ize as American spelling
 
9:19 PM
@DavidCarlisle British people are lucky to have free access to the online OED. I bought the two volume Shorter OED for myself though.
I am old school and don't like to use online dictionaries. =)
 
@JasonBourne do we? (I have the 2 vol one here as well:-)
 
@JasonBourne I have the same edition too
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh, I think you just need your library card or something.
Talking about spelling, it should be 'just deserts' and not 'just desserts', a common mistake. But if a mistake becomes too common, it might become acceptable in the long run.
 
@JasonBourne well yes I don't think it's being in the UK but rather being at an institution that has subscribed
@JasonBourne don't say that there are Germans present they get uneasy about the concept of a language that just makes up its rules as it goes along
 
@DavidCarlisle I see. I was under the impression that any public library will do, but I don't know now.
 
9:48 PM
@Moriambar I think its use is restricted to the Sound of Music.
 
@AlanMunn really? What about Homer's recurrent line:«so long, suckers!» ?
 
@Moriambar Haha. Well ok, the Sound of Music and The Simpsons then. :) That's probably an exaggeration, but I don't think it's really used much at all these days.
 
@AlanMunn too bad :( I liked it a lot. But what were its usages then? Or was it "general purpose" when leaving?
 
@DavidCarlisle Americans have the interjection Dude!. Germans have Duden! :)
@Moriambar I don't really know. I think it was a general leaving salutation, like ciao, but only for leaving.
 
@AlanMunn farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, goodbye!
 
9:58 PM
@DavidCarlisle No google needed for that joke.
 
@AlanMunn because mine are better than yours?
2
 
@AlanMunn I see. Well, since I use howdy as a general "arrival" greeting, I think I can use so long for "leaving", being vintage
@DavidCarlisle shouldn't it be farewell? Or is there something I'm missing?
 
@Moriambar and it is:-)
 
@Moriambar @DavidCarlisle doesn't do spelling either, apparently.
 
10:00 PM
@DavidCarlisle :)
@AlanMunn lool. I was just reliving my worst nightmare: the words containing appar- which I misspell 14 times out of 15
 
@Moriambar Yeah, howdy is pretty vintage too. So I see you learned English from spaghetti westerns. ;-)
 
@AlanMunn nope. I learned most of it through FRIENDS, the TV-show. howdy is featured there (once), and since I own 5 cowboy-style hats, I find it well suited for me :)
@AlanMunn and remember: I watch spaghetti western in Italian. Apparently the only films I do watch in Italian now, but still!
Well, I think I'm gonna call it a day. It's been nice, but I gotta go. So long!
@DavidCarlisle ps: my battery is fine, I just wanted you to know that :)
 
10:37 PM
@AlanMunn -- how can you forget "so long frank lloyd wright"?
 
11:24 PM
@barbarabeeton Well in my defence, a bit before my time. I'm sure I've heard the song, but it's not one I really know.
 

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