TeX, LaTeX and Friends

percusse

12:06 AM

@AlanMunn This is for you. Check it before we get expelled by @egreg

Mozart-Symphony No. 25, 1st Movement(Surfer Style)

►

3

egreg

@percusse You're excommunicated

percusse

@egreg Was worth it :P

egreg

@percusse You're lucky that I'm listening to the first cello concerto by Haydn.

David Carlisle

@egreg as played by a bloke on a surfboard with a guitar?

percusse

I always think that @egreg sleeps with a full fledged suit and a bowtie all the time. I haven't find a way to integrate emacs to that picture.

egreg

12:19 AM

@percusse Never worn a bowtie.

@percusse And a formal suit only in very special occasions.

percusse

@egreg Don't ruin my mathematician streotype :)

egreg

@percusse Among the eleven members of my graduation commission, only one wore a jacket.

cfr

12:51 AM

@Canageek Americans wear jumpers, too. At least, some of them do. Men might get funny looks in some places if they do so, however.

@yo' American jelly or British jelly or both? (Hopefully not together.)

Alan Munn

2:26 AM

@percusse This is fantastic in all respects!

Aditya

6:04 AM

I want to make context and context-mkiv tags as synonyms. I created the synonym at tex.stackexchange.com/tags/context/synonyms Could a few of you please upvote the suggestion?

Joseph Wright

7:02 AM

@Aditya Approved

yo'

8:58 AM

@cfr am I right that UK jelly are thr sweets while US jelly is the thing you spread on a slice of bread?

David Carlisle

@yo' for some reason they can not spell "jam" correctly. Jelly is gelatinous desert made off (allegedly) fruit juice, usually eaten with cream or ice cream.

or dessert at least:-)

Paulo Cereda

9:39 AM

Is the TUG office on vacation? I wrote an email a couple of days ago, but no luck so far.

CarLaTeX

10:45 AM

@PauloCereda The duck has just arrived in Milan, photo album is coming soon!
I haven't seen it yet, because I'm at work and I asked my mother to go to my house and wait for the postman. She's just told me it has arrived and is very funny!

To everybody: how could I call it? 30 reputation points to who will find a funny name! :):):)

Paulo Cereda

11:26 AM

@CarLaTeX YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

@CarLaTeX Did your mum open? :)

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda Yes, it has arrived alive and kicking!

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX Yay!

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda I'll post a photo tonight

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX <3

@CarLaTeX: vede Carla, una anatra!

David Carlisle

@egreg you found that ask a question button?

egreg

11:41 AM

@DavidCarlisle Only on Meta

wilx

New on CTAN: halloweenmath -- Kinda cool and funny. :)

2

David Carlisle

@wilx that code started from here

David Carlisle

12:12 PM

@JosephWright before checking graphics behaviour I thought I'd check graphicx compare t-clip1.lvt with pdflatex, lualatex and xelatex :(

^^^ github.com/latex3/graphics-def/tree/master/testfiles if anyone else wants to try

David Carlisle

12:38 PM

$ identify -verbose clip-1-2.jpg
Image: clip-1-2.jpg
  Format: JPEG (Joint Photographic Experts Group JFIF format)
  Mime type: image/jpeg
  Class: DirectClass
  Geometry: 243x214+0+0
  Resolution: 120x120
  Print size: 2.025x1.78333

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Oh great!

David Carlisle

@JosephWright pdftex takes resolution into account so ends up with print size as specified, luatex does not, so ends up 20% bigger (and so clip coordinates are wrong)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Oops

David Carlisle

@JosephWright so now I suppose I have to read the luatex manual to see if it is reporting the size incorrectly or if the macros are not picking up the resolution. luatex.def does same (wrong) thing as pdftex.def if you enable that with luatex85.sty so it isn't just that change that broke things

CarLaTeX

12:55 PM

@PauloCereda Bravo Paulo, speak Italian! P.S.= the correct translation for "See you!" is "Ci vediamo!". Ci vediamo, Paulo!

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Probably a bug in LuaTeX

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX ooh

David Carlisle

@JosephWright you don't say

2

CarLaTeX

@wilx See the origin: tex.stackexchange.com/a/338377/101651

wilx

@CarLaTeX Nice.

CarLaTeX

1:01 PM

@wilx A masterpiece!

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX: I am very happy to know the duck has arrived safe and sound!

David Carlisle

1:20 PM

\ifx\saveimageresource\undefined\else
\let\pdfximage       \saveimageresource
\let\pdflastximage   \lastsavedimageresourceindex
\let\pdfrefximage    \useimageresource
\fi

\setbox0\hbox{%
  \immediate\pdfximage{clip-1-2.jpg}%
  \pdfrefximage \pdflastximage}

\showthe\wd0

\box0

\end

@JosephWright plain tex version ^^^ back to luatex list I guess....

barbara beeton

@percusse -- better to think of @egreg as a biker dude.

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton or green square, that works for me.

Paulo Cereda

Friends, no news from TUG office? I was looking for my TB's. :(

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton

Jan

@DavidCarlisle: I've just approved my first review on tex.stackexchange.com/questions/348351/…

egreg

1:25 PM

@barbarabeeton With leather jacket, fringes and horns on the helmet? ;-)

Jan

But I was to fast. I noticed afterwards, that the OP tried to insert a link to a similar question, but did not use correct markup.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg That sounds too much WWI. :)

Jan

Now I can't fix this any more :-(

What can I do?

barbara beeton

@egreg -- well, i didn't see any horns. but no real hardware on the jacket either, unlike johannes braams.

Jan

Correct link would be: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/180543/…

barbara beeton

1:27 PM

21

A: How to align a set of multiline equations

without an actual example, here's how i interpret what you want. and here is the input: \documentclass{article} \usepackage{mathtools} \begin{document} This example shows \verb|aligned| equations within an \verb|align| environment. \begin{align} \phantom{i + j + k} &\begin{aligned} \m...

David Carlisle

@Jan don't worry, life carries on

@Jan you can always go back and edit the question

barbara beeton

^^^ my attention was called to this answer, and looking at it, i noticed that the end-of-line backslashes in the display code had been "singled" and the following eol collapsed to put two input lines on one line. i've now edited it to be what i am sure i really input in the first place. it's a few years old; i think the system corrupted it, and i'm pretty sure i would have noticed it at the time, so i suspect something has happened in the interim. has anyone else seen this?

egreg

@barbarabeeton I kept everything well hidden. ;-)

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton see @egreg's question in meta this morning

Jan

@DavidCarlisle Shame on me. fortunately, life does. But I am forbidden to use the edit button.

egreg

1:31 PM

@barbarabeeton meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/7168/…

7

Q: Double backslashes disappear from code

Not the first time it happens on the site, so it's time to raise the problem in Meta. It is similar, but distinct from ‘double backslash + newline’ collapses to ‘single backslash’ when I hit ‘edit’; what happens is that code with lines ending with \\ gets randomly transformed, without any interv...

David Carlisle

@Jan you are, why?

egreg

@barbarabeeton I added your example to my question

Jan

It said, there have to be four more reviews ... Having it tried just this second again, it worked ...

Curious!

barbara beeton

@egreg -- yup. good on you. i'd already made the correction, but in the edit reason, i said "suspected corruption by system". this is the same wretched problem that bedevils me when updating some web pages at ams, so if a reason is found, maybe i can get the maintainers of the miserable update system here to do something useful about it.

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda Me too!

Paulo Cereda

1:41 PM

@CarLaTeX yay!

CarLaTeX

@egreg Only double? If I remember well, in a comment I had to write "shift+\" because if I used ` the \ disappered...

yo'

@barbarabeeton Sorry for not replying earlier, a mail will be on its way today!

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX yes these are \\ in {} code blocks, disappearing days after they were entered, not at time of writing

barbara beeton

@yo' -- oh, don't be concerned. i'm still catching up, have also got a nasty cold, and am still on "outer mongolian time". i'll probably be pretty useless for a few more days. but thanks for the heads up.

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle Ah, another problem, then...

David Carlisle

1:58 PM

@CarLaTeX easiest way to do \\ in inline comments is `\\ ` (so with a space)

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle Next time I'll do that way, thank you!

egreg

2:16 PM

@CarLaTeX Or surround the double backslash with double backquotes: \\

Gudrun

Good afternoon.
How are you? I would, if you allow, ask for help. This should be a working mini example, but it does not work. It works when I leave out babel. But could it be that babel+french and fancyref don't work together, please?

The example:

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Looks like we were right: it's a bug

@PauloCereda I've got to mail Robin about other stuff: I'll let you know when I know if/when I get a reply

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Thanks. :)

Gudrun

\documentclass[12pt,twoside,a4paper]{article}

\usepackage[french]{babel}
\usepackage[plain]{fancyref}

\begin{document}

\fref{fig:figure1}

\begin{figure}
\rule{5cm}{5cm}
\caption{Test}
\label{fig:figure1}
\end{figure}

\end{document}

It works if I put in German or English.

egreg

The problem is that fancyref uses colons in its internal labels, which conflicts with them being active when the language is French.

Gudrun

2:27 PM

I just tried to google the error and some active characters were indeed mentioned, but I don't know how to fix this problem. Thank you for your reply.

I googled this \renewcommand*{\fancyrefargdelim}{-}, let's see.

Oh nice, it seems to work.
@egreg could you please explain to me what is an active character, please?

egreg

@Gudrun Going to lecture, I'll be back in an hour

David Carlisle

@Gudrun it is a character that is defined to have a definition like a command without \ . The example in the format is ~ to make a non breakable space but french babel makes most punctuation active so it can add space before as required by French typographic style

Gudrun

@egreg Not a problem. Have fun. What is the topic?
@Dav

@David Carlisle: Thank you.

David Carlisle

@Gudrun if you try

\documentclass[12pt,twoside,a4paper]{article}

\show:
\usepackage[french]{babel}

\begin{document}
\show:

then latex will show

Gudrun

Yes, I will try. One moment. Now I am curious.

David Carlisle

2:35 PM

> the character :.
l.3 \show:

> :=macro:
->\active@prefix :\active@char: .
l.7 \show:

Gudrun

Yes, I get > the character :.
l.4 \show:

David Carlisle

@Gudrun so initially : is just a normal character but babel french 90after begin document) makes it a macro doing some space adjustments

Gudrun

Sorry if I ask again, but why French typographic style demands this?

David Carlisle

@Gudrun hit return and see what it shows for the second one

@Gudrun random historical accident but english ` this: a,b,c` is french this : a,b,c

Gudrun

@DavidCarlisle In total I get> the character :.
l.4 \show:

?
(/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel/babel.sty
(/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel-french/frenchb.ldf
(/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel/babel.def)))
(/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/tex/latex/carlisle/scalefnt.sty)
(/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/tex/latex/graphics/keyval.sty)
No file Test2.aux.

Package frenchb.ldf Warning: OT1 encoding should not be used for French.
(frenchb.ldf) Add \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} to the preamble

@DavidCarlisle Does it make sense to make a : a macro, even in French? I admitt I am confused.

David Carlisle

2:40 PM

@Gudrun as far as I understand the French style is to have a thin space before : so there is no convenient way without that abc: adds no space and abc : adds too much space and allows a line break before the colon and noone wants to type abc\nolinebreak\hspace{.2em}: every time

CarLaTeX

@egreg OK, thank you!

David Carlisle

@Gudrun so the maintainers of the French latex support made : active and defined to be a command that essentially removes space before the colon and then adds a non breaking thin space so input of abc: or abc : both produce abc\nolinebreak\hspace{.2em}:

@Gudrun which is fine in text but less fine if you go \label{fig:abc} :-)

Gudrun

@David

@DavidCarlisle Sorry. Okay I see your point. But if one writes: \label{fig:abc} The colon is inside another command. Why should this cause a problem, please? Sorry, I am just curious. Could one not say to ignore all colons within latex commands?

David Carlisle

2:58 PM

@Gudrun That's not how latex works (same reason that you can not make \verb work inside a command.) babel does have commands to turn this off (\shorthandsoff) so if doing this by hand you can make : safe do whatever then switch it back to "french punctuation" but if a package is inserting colons automatically not expecting this things can go wrong. (If it had been expecting it it could arrange slightly more complicated internals to make sure that it always used a "safe" character.

Gudrun

@DavidCarlisle Allright, thank you for taking the time to explain this to me.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle A fixed list of actives would help ;)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright \loop \ifnum\count@<"10FFFF \catcode\count@\active\repeat

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Should I call you Frank? (Or perhaps Jonathan)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright Yes Chris.

@JosephWright although either of those might have slipped in an \advance\count@\@ne and avoided an infinite loop

@JosephWright meanwhile see what happens to my luatex list question before doing anything with graphics, so not for this release I suspect.

egreg

3:34 PM

@Gudrun Besides adding \renewcommand*{\fancyrefargdelim}{-}, you can't use colons in the arguments to \fref.

@Gudrun LaTeX has a protection mechanism around \label and \ref to allow babel shorthands, but fancyref doesn't implement it for its job.

@Gudrun The topic were integrals; started yesterday. Much fun!

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Fair enough

Gudrun

@egreg Yes, thank you. I changed of course the colons in the labels to -. Should not do any harm, I hope. Diff1?

egreg

@Gudrun Yes. Tomorrow integration by substitution and by parts!

David Carlisle

@egreg The best way is still integration by knowing the answer and differentiating isn't it?

Gudrun

@egreg Upps, I did not like too much Diff. I had always the impression we learned more applied maths in theoretical physics than in Diff. :D

egreg

3:56 PM

@Gudrun Who needs applied math? ;-)

@JosephWright Let me have a coffee after lecture!

Gudrun

@egreg Sorry, I expressed myself badly. In theoretical physics I learned how to use math to solve my problems. The explanations in theoretical physics concerning the math part were better than in math.

Joseph Wright

@egreg Of course

egreg

@Gudrun That depends on the teacher. :-D

Gudrun

@egreg Agreed, the theoretical physics teacher was able to explain better maths. But I hope you enjoy your studies. But cool that you know already so much about LaTeX, I just started it in my third term.

egreg

@Gudrun I teach :-)

@Gudrun Been using TeX/LaTeX since 1989

Gudrun

4:11 PM

@egreg My apologies. Muahh. I totally misjudged your age.

egreg

@Gudrun Ask @DavidCarlisle what's my age

Joseph Wright

@Gudrun Hard to tell about a green sqaure

egreg

@JosephWright We green squares keep young!

Gudrun

Sorry, I have applied LaTeX for already 12 years but never reached your level.

egreg

@Gudrun You're surely able to spot missing %; that's my level, according to an esteemed community member.

Gudrun

4:21 PM

@egreg I can google efficiently, that helps already a lot, I can read error messages, and most importantly I can do mini examples. This helps a bit.

David Carlisle

@egreg and you can't always get that right

@Gudrun he is much older than me

@JosephWright fixed Leslie's example for pdftex I think

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Cool

@egreg, @DavidCarlisle Thoughts on github.com/josephwright/beamer/issues/360?

egreg

4:42 PM

@JosephWright Indenting \end{frame} is silly.

Joseph Wright

@egreg Yes I agree but I meant more on the balance of different use cases and any other solution approaches. (If one can be sure of all possible verbatim environments it's possible to track things, but that's pretty tricky.)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I just got the mail saying it broke, didn't check what the referenced commits were fixing?

Joseph Wright

4:59 PM

@DavidCarlisle First one was that tabs got gobbled inside listings, second one was that fixing it then meant that \end{frame} can't be indented: fixing that means you can't 'hide' a verbatim \end{frame} by simply indenting ...

@DavidCarlisle I see Frank has a view too

@DavidCarlisle All the best people use beamer ;-)

Or at least follow it on GitHub ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright especially the latter

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Frank uses FreeMind. :)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Funny thing is my own use of beamer is very simple: I don't do fragile frames and don't use any themes or whatever at all

@PauloCereda I was thinking of Leslie ...

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright oh

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Frank is certainly reporting lots of issues in beamer

@PauloCereda Parenthetically he mentioned beamer in a bug report

David Carlisle

5:04 PM

@JosephWright and If he's not using slides.cls, I wonder who is.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I wondered much the same, but perhaps he's been asked to solve an issue for someone else (would still be interesting given where he is)

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright Imho it is the same problem that one have with nesting quotes in programming. You either need a way to escape the inner quote (difficult in your case) or you need two "quote symbols". So i would suggest to add a "fragileframe" environment.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer There are already ways around it: semiverbatim, making an alternative environment, etc.: I'm minded to document those

David Carlisle

5:28 PM

@JosephWright you should document this alternative ^^

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Indeed, particularly if you work where Leslie does ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright that's what I was thinking (although that's only about my second attempt at using that software:-)

snow forecast to start about now....

samcarter

@JosephWright What would you think about going back to bitbucket.org/rivanvx/beamer/commits/… but add a document class option to switch this on/off easily for the whole document (depending what the default would be)?

Joseph Wright

@samcarter That allows spaces in a somewhat haphazard way (it's not by design!)

@samcarter I guess @UlrikeFischer is also suggesting some kind of new feature for this rather specialised use case

@samcarter I'll think about it (it's a question of turning on-and-off github.com/josephwright/beamer/commit/…

@samcarter BTW, I'm hoping that Vedran will at some stage remove the BitBucket page: ideally I'd like the 'correct' place to report things to be clear :)

Right, off into the 'snow' (light rain)

Gudrun

5:49 PM

@egreg @DavidCarlisle I think I should not make any more comments about somebody's age, otherwise I will hit another Fettnaepfchen (drop a clanger?)

egreg

6:09 PM

@Gudrun You see, there have been a few changes in typography since when I was helping Gutenberg printing his Bible.

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright yes I'm suggesting a fragileframe environment so that someone who wants to document frame can use it. I don't see a point to put a lot of effort in getting nested fragile frames working.

Christian Hupfer

6:54 PM

@egreg No more clay tablets as in the ages when you scratched the first parts of the bible into clay then? ;-)

egreg

8:35 PM

@ChristianHupfer I can't consider that typography. But it was fun to bake the tablet in the ovens.

Stefan Kottwitz

@Gudrun What is Fettnäpfchen in English? I got a big one.

egreg

9:08 PM

@StefanKottwitz Blunder?

yo'

@egreg Do you plan to attend TUG in Bachotek?

barbara beeton

9:29 PM

@egreg -- hmmmph. they weren't usually baked. but sometimes a building containing a store of tablets caught fire, which did have the effect of making them permanent. go to tug.org/TUGboat/Contents/contents33-1.html and click on "title page" for a critique regarding permanence.

egreg

@yo' I'm afraid not

yo'

@egreg oh no! It's during the teaching term for you, right?

egreg

@yo' Yep

yo'

@egreg too bad. I'm fortunately teaching only winter terms for next 3 years

egreg

@yo' I teach three courses in the spring term

yo'

9:43 PM