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cfr
12:06 AM
@DavidCarlisle @egreg @PauloCereda @AlanMunn @Anybody @Everybody @Nobody Does anybody have any idea how I can grey out a column in a booktabs table? How can I stop \arrayrulecolor{<colour>} altering the vertical alignment? Or is my question just not answerable?
 
@cfr Color and booktabs don't go along
 
cfr
@egreg So it is hopeless? Changing the colour seems so basic. It isn't as if I wanted to colour the rows ...
 
@cfr example? also do you want the grey colour to be grey in the vertical space booktabs adds around rules (that would be harder)
 
cfr
@egreg I wish I'd never used booktabs by now, to be honest.
 
@cfr Just don't color your tables. ;-)
 
cfr
12:10 AM
2
Q: How can I construct a table with booktabs rules, with some regular and some greyed out columns?

cfrI am trying to construct a table in which some columns are displayed normally and others are greyed out. I am using booktabs rules throughout the document and need this table to be formatted consistently with the others. I can easily grey out the content of the relevant columns. However, I'm ha...

@DavidCarlisle ^^ No. I don't want the space to be grey. I just want the rules and contents of some columns to be grey. The contents are easy. The rules ... I can do it if I split the table into one-column-per-table. But this is fraught. Plus, my real case uses tabularx.
@egreg Do you have an alternative suggestion? I want to represent: person A is constructing this table and starts by focusing solely on column k and ignoring all the others. I thought that greying out the other columns was an intuitive way to show this, but I don't have to use this if I can think of a better idea. (Or I can pinch a better idea somebody else thinks of ;).)
 
@cfr Typeset the table twice, one in greyscale and one in black; clip and superimpose.
 
cfr
@egreg Thanks. Can I do that without making it into an image? I had wondered about this, but thought I could only do that if I made it into an external image.
@egreg I guess I could render 3 of them: text without rules; clipped black and clipped grey rules.
 
@cfr Why image? You can clip also boxes.
 
cfr
@egreg I've also wondered about faking it in TikZ.
@egreg Hmmm... I guess I only think of clipping in association with images ... Clipping boxes sounds better, indeed.
 
12:26 AM
@cfr trimclip by Martin Scharrer
 
booktabs doing something a bit odd somewhere (although anything involving tex and colour in tables has to be odd in parts:-) probably fixable but not tonight
@cfr of course you don't have to use cmidrule, \hhline lets you change colours easily, but you'd have to adjust the vertical spacing a bit to match booktabs
 
cfr
@DavidCarlisle I don't need a fix tonight ;). I have too much else to do to the document anyway. So if you might be willing to see if it is fixable not tonight, that would be wonderful. But I obviously understand if not.
 
@cfr fixed, answer coming up:-) (probably not complete but all you get today:-)
 
cfr
@DavidCarlisle I was trying to use \specialrule for this, but couldn't get it right.
 
@cfr oh I see someone already suggested hhline:-)
 
cfr
12:42 AM
@DavidCarlisle I'm not in a desperate hurry. Not this year would be OK, too. I'm not doing anything serious with this until January!
@DavidCarlisle Er ... wow. What happened to not tonight?!
@DavidCarlisle Yes. But I think doing it as separate tables is probably easier, even with the X column complications.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:47 AM
@UlrikeFischer You're right of course. Maybe it is finally time to tackle that (quite annoying) problem
 
 
7 hours later…
9:59 AM
@cfr my general method is to use tikz/tikzmark to redraw the lines. If your cells have uniform height this normally quite easy.
 
yo'
Asking someone to write a ‘not equals’ sign can be quite revealing. https://t.co/QKWTAaYGTg
 
@yo' LOLOLOL
 
10:28 AM
@cfr: installed my first Arch-based distro on a very old netbook. It's running very smooth!
 
 
1 hour later…
11:44 AM
Hi guys I have a question that I'd like to post. I feel like it has already been answered even though after alot of searching I couldn't find the right answer. If I briefly explain it here can you give me some help to determine if is a duplicate? thanks
 
@yo' It misses \ne. ;-)
 
12:08 PM
@egreg and of course it misses ≠
 
@DavidCarlisle Too modern
 
@egreg for old men like you, perhaps so, but to a young natural linguist like myself, typing Unicode just comes naturally
 
@FormlessCloud Please, go on!
 
Thank you Gregorio
it's not an MWE for compactness but I will provide one if needed
\begin{margintable}
\centering
\begin{tabular}{c}
\toprule
\smallcaps{Distribuzione di Bernoulli}\\
\midrule
$\expval{X}\quad p$\\
$\sigma_X^2\quad p(1-p)$\\
$M_X(t)\quad 1-p+pe^t$\\
\bottomrule
\end{tabular}
\end{margintable}
this is one version of the table that I am creating
and this is the other one
 
12:26 PM
@FormlessCloud please do, otherwise we just have to guess what package defines margintable and create a preamble
 
\begin{margintable}
\centering
\begin{tabular}{rl}
\toprule
\multicolumn{2}{c}{\smallcaps{Distribuzione di Bernoulli}}\\
\midrule
$\expval{X}$ & $p$\\
$\sigma_X^2$ & $p(1-p)$\\
$M_X(t)$ & $1-p+pe^t$\\
\bottomrule
\end{tabular}
\end{margintable}
sorry I could have just avoid using margintable because it's not related
there you go this is much cleaner
so this is a table with a single header but two columns... How can I center the two columns under the header? As you can see from the example the two columns are shifted towards the left...
thanks
 
1:31 PM
@FormlessCloud You have to measure the header
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath,mathtools}
\usepackage{booktabs,array}

\newcommand{\expval}{\operatorname{E}\expvalarg}
\DeclarePairedDelimiter{\expvalarg}{(}{)}

\newlength{\headerwidth}

\begin{document}

\begin{table}[htp]

\newcommand{\thisheader}{\textsc{Distribuzione di Bernoulli}}
\settowidth{\headerwidth}{\thisheader}
\addtolength{\headerwidth}{-2\tabcolsep}

\begin{tabular}{%
  *{2}{>{\centering\arraybackslash}p{.5\headerwidth}}
}
\toprule
\multicolumn{2}{c}{\thisheader}\\
@FormlessCloud I've mocked up the definition for \expval, use your own, of course
 
1:48 PM
 
yo'
@FormlessCloud you can cheat this...
 
@egreg Thank you very much. Actually what I had in mind was that picture but, your version looks nice as well
 
yo'
\begin{tabular}{c}
\toprule
\textsc{Distribuzione di Bernoulli}
\\\midrule
  \begin{tabular}{@{}>$r<$>$l<$@{}}
  E(X) & p \\
  \sigma_X^2 & p(1-p) \\
  M_X(t) & 1-p+pe^t
  \end{tabular}
\\\bottomrule
\end{tabular}
You need \usepackage{booktabs,array} for this of course...
 
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath,mathtools}
\usepackage{booktabs,array}

\DeclarePairedDelimiter{\expval}{\langle}{\rangle}

\newlength{\headerwidth}

\begin{document}

\begin{table}[htp]

\newcommand{\thisheader}{\textsc{Distribuzione di Bernoulli}}
\settowidth{\headerwidth}{\thisheader}
\addtolength{\headerwidth}{-2\tabcolsep}

\begin{tabular}{%
  >{\raggedleft\arraybackslash}p{.5\headerwidth}
  >{\raggedright\arraybackslash}p{.5\headerwidth}
}
\toprule
\multicolumn{2}{c}{\thisheader}\\
 
yo'
Actually, sorry, this version wouldn't do exactly what you want, it would simply center the inner table, for your version, another trick is needed...
 
1:51 PM
@FormlessCloud ^^^^ a variant. But why not simply using =?
 
yo'
@egreg good point. Well, I wouldn't use a table at all, but...
 
@yo' Neither would I. In any case, the header should better be on two lines
 
yo'
@egreg depends on how much horizontal space is available...
 
mmm okay guys nice tips!
@egreg what do you mean by saying "[...] using =?"
 
@FormlessCloud Here it is:
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath,mathtools}
\usepackage{booktabs,array}

\DeclarePairedDelimiter{\expval}{\langle}{\rangle}

\begin{document}

\begin{table}[htp]

\begin{tabular}{>{$}r<{$}@{}>{${}}l<{$}}
\toprule
\multicolumn{2}{c}{\scshape Distribuzione}\\
\multicolumn{2}{c}{\scshape di Bernoulli}\\
\midrule
\expval{X} &=p \\
\sigma_X^2 &=p(1-p) \\
M_X(t)     &=1-p+pe^t \\
\bottomrule
\end{tabular}

\end{table}

\end{document}
 
1:57 PM
@yo' the horizontal space available is the margin space of the tufte class
 
@FormlessCloud Even better:
\begin{tabular}{c}
\toprule
\scshape Distribuzione\\
\scshape di Bernoulli\\
\midrule
$\!\begin{aligned}
  \expval{X} &=p \\
  \sigma_X^2 &=p(1-p) \\
  M_X(t)     &=1-p+pe^t
\end{aligned}$ \\
\bottomrule
\end{tabular}
@FormlessCloud Note the better spacing
 
@egreg I did! : O
 
2:18 PM
Well, looks awesome! Thanks to both of you! Should I ask a real question so that everybody can enjoy it?
 
2:36 PM
Friends, everybody here tomorrow morning to help me audit the contest. :)
 
lol which contest?
 
@FormlessCloud The duck giveaway.
 
@FormlessCloud Didn't you register? meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/6914/…
@FormlessCloud You're still in time for choosing your numbers!
 
2:53 PM
@egreg oooooooooooooooh
 
3:03 PM
Alright I joined!
 
3:51 PM
@FormlessCloud Good luck! :)
I won't leave my beloved Fedora, but I am considering for my next laptop to host a Arch system. :)
 
4:05 PM
@PauloCereda Boo! I suggest MS Linux
 
@ChristianHupfer <3
@ChristianHupfer You are mean
Herr Naughty Deutsche person. :)
 
@PauloCereda <3
 
@ChristianHupfer <3
 
@PauloCereda What's the state of your thesis? :-P
 
@ChristianHupfer which thesis? it's... going... :)
 
4:11 PM
@PauloCereda The thesis you are pretending to write writing, right now, just at this moment? :D
 
@ChristianHupfer I have proof!
See? There's a tab in my terminal session where I am writing my thesis!
:)
 
@PauloCereda The proof is as firm as the missing election ballots in Florida during the 2000 US presidential elections ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer :)
 
@PauloCereda This is the fortune I got: “Most public domain software is free, at least at first glance.”
@PauloCereda killall vim
 
@egreg That's true. :)
@egreg NO, DON'T
I HAVEN'T SAVED MY VIM SESSION
 
4:21 PM
@PauloCereda ”It isn't easy being the parent of a six-year-old. However, it's a pretty small price to pay for having somebody around the house who understands computers.”
 
@egreg LOL
Fellow programmer, greetings!  You are reading a letter which will bring
you luck and good fortune.  Just mail (or UUCP) ten copies of this letter
to ten of your friends.  Before you make the copies, send a chip or
other bit of hardware, and 100 lines of 'C' code to the first person on the
list given at the bottom of this letter.  Then delete their name and add
yours to the bottom of the list.

Don't break the chain!  Make the copy within 48 hours.  Gerald R. of San
Diego failed to send out his ten copies and woke the next morning to find
2
 
Oh, no! “ COBOL programmer”! That's a very sad fate!
 
@egreg :)
 
yo'
5:04 PM
@JosephWright Is it standard that one can't get text accents in \SI?
\documentclass{article}

\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{tgpagella}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}

\usepackage{siunitx}
\DeclareSIUnit \czechcrown {Kč}

\begin{document}

This is \SI{1000}{\czechcrown}.

This is 1000\,Kč.

\end{document}
 
@yo' You have to declare it as \text
 
yo'
Ah, mode=text!!! @JosephWright thanks, more careful reading of the manual helped!
@egreg yeah, there's a built-in option for this actually...
 
@cfr: Cwac!
 
yo'
@egreg thanks anyway!
@PauloCereda booooooooooooooooo!
 
@yo' Toooom! <3
 
yo'
5:11 PM
@PauloCereda how do you do? :)
 
@yo' Working a lot, but fine. :) And you, pal?
 
cfr
@PauloCereda You know Arch-based \neq Arch ;)?
@PauloCereda Cwac 3>
 
@cfr Yes, I am actually aware of it. :)
@cfr ooh (")>
 
yo'
@PauloCereda similar thing. Just, I organized a whisky dégustation yesterday evening, it was big and .... well ... heavy :-D
 
@yo' oooh
 
cfr
5:16 PM
@PauloCereda Really, though, it is just a help-forum thing, I think. Great it's quacking well, though.
 
@cfr I am suffering a lot with pacman, but it's quite interesting. At least it's not Debian. :)
I LOL'd. :)
 
@JosephWright just got home, so I suppose I should redo fixltx2e :-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Indeed :)
@DavidCarlisle Just got in: catching up on stuff from today
 
5:36 PM
When your geek side appears out of nowhere...
KIDNEYS! I'VE GOT KIDNEYS! — Paulo Cereda 1 min ago
Ouch, I forgot NEW.
 
 
1 hour later…
 
1 hour later…
cfr
8:18 PM
@PauloCereda This is very true. I like pacman. What's the problem? pacmatic is a useful wrapper.
@PauloCereda Did you just find out?
 
8:40 PM
Anyone on right now released a package on CTAN?
 
@DanielSank Yes, a few of us.
 
@DanielSank Yup, just a few
 
I'm writing the documentation for a package. The documentation gives an example use case. The use case sources are included with the package so users can build the example theirselves. The example uses the package I'm trying to distribute. Is that good practice?
What I'm worried about, is, for example, that I can't build my own example right now because my package isn't on CTAN and can't be installed.
(easily)
 
@DanielSank Pretty common
 
8:43 PM
@DanielSank Put it in your local tree, use a script, ...
@DanielSank Many people (incl. me) favour having the demos in the documentation source but not as separate files
 
@JosephWright Why not as separate files?
I figured that way people can actually build the demo themselves.
I'm using listings to display the demo sources in the documentation.
 
@DanielSank Well it depends on what you are doing, but for my packages you don't need a whole document to see the effect (in the main), just a 'snippet'. For the one case where I do have a whole file (achemso) it's because it's a class not a package.
 
@JosephWright So the thinking there is that if my package isn't yet in Miktex or Texlive and someone wants to use it, they have to install it manually anyway?
 
@DanielSank Yes, but the number of users who do this is very small
 
@JosephWright I see. In my case, I'm providing a macro that allows modular composition of documents. It's hard to illustrate without a multi-file document.
@JosephWright Yeah ok. Can you point me to an example of an install script? Do folks use bash for this?
 
8:46 PM
@DanielSank Oh, of course
@DanielSank Bash is limited to *nix systems ;)
 
@JosephWright Well, so what do folks do? bash and bat?
python?
Point to example?
Haven't seen installer scripts in the packages I've looked at so far.
 
@DanielSank The LaTeX team use a Lua-based script on the grounds all modern TeX systems have LuaTeX: ctan.org/pkg/l3build
 
@JosephWright Oh, brother. Ok.
Thanks.
 
Hi.. How can you write N°06/02 in LaTeX?
The superscript o is the problem
 
@DanielSank It's entirely up to you: use of script for example github.com/josephwright/siunitx/blob/stable/build.lua
@DanielSank I (and the team) used to use a shell script/batch file set up
 
8:50 PM
It's really short for "Number" so not a math symbol
 
@Lembik $^\circ$
 
@Lembik \textdegree with textcomp package.
 
or that ^
 
aha! thanks
 
Or just write the Unicode character.
 
8:52 PM
@JosephWright it's kind of amazing to me that there aren't macros already available to include a document fragment and make all the section/subsection/etc levels adjust relative to where that fragment is included.
coseoul sort of tries to do this, but doesn't go far enough.
 
@wilx I never know how to enter unicode characters except by copying and pasting
 
@DanielSank LaTeX's as much a description of a document structure as a typesetting language: the semantics of \section, \subsection, etc. only make sense on a document-wide basis
 
@JosephWright Yes, but the problem is that they're absolute rather than relative.
 
@Lembik I use Emacs and I can input it through insert-char with its name DEGREE SYMBOL.
 
coseoul fixes that by providing relative headings, but it doesn't provide a way to import a fragment with the levels e.g. adjusted down by one relative to where the fragment is imported.
I cannot think of a single case where absolute headings are better than relative.
 
8:55 PM
@wilx oh cool.. I also use emacs.. just not as well :)
 
@DanielSank Across an entire document you have to make a judgement as to what is at the same level as what else
 
@JosephWright I disagree.
I've analyzed this issue in great detail here.
Absolute headings are never more useful than relative ones, as far as I can tell.
Or I should say, I agree with you, but absolute headings do not make that easier.
 
@DanielSank You run the danger of 'too many levels': as it is, inside a \chapter you should only really go as far as \subsection
 
@JosephWright Ok. Suppose I write an article about octopuses with two sections.
Now I write an article about animals. I want to include my octopus article as a section in that.
 
@DanielSank Of course, one of the points of an open approach is one can alter it
@DanielSank Tut tut
 
8:58 PM
This is either impossible or incredibly annoying using LaTeX's included macros.
@JosephWright Tut tut what?
 
@DanielSank Reusing text from one place in another tends to mean the text has not been rewritten for the use case (and it's self-plagarism ...)
 
@JosephWright And how is that a problem?
I wrote tons of technical documents as a grad student. Then I wanted to use them as appendices in my PhD thesis.
You want me to retype all that? No, thank you.
I write to convey information. I don't give a hoot about self-plagiarism.
 
@DanielSank If they are verbatim copies, why not simply reuse (or attach) the PDFs?
 
@JosephWright I write an article about the Fourier transform of white noise. It has the format of an article. It doesn't say "appendix" anywhere.
Now I want to include it as an appendix in my dissertation. Attaching the pdf pages would not satisfy my institution's formatting rules.
Why are you arguing against this obviously useful use case? It's a bit weird and honestly seems like you're fishing for reasons to shoot this use case down.
 
@DanielSank I'm in a part of the world where such formatting daftness is luckily absent!
 
9:03 PM
@JosephWright "Part of the world? So there are parts of the world where all institutions have the same rules? Amazing!
What part of the world is that, anyway?
 
@DanielSank I'm in the UK, and thesis regulations tend to be of the form 'The text must be printed single-sided for final submission'
 
Also, I fail to see how your geographic location bears on your decision to "tut tut" a solution to a problem that other people have :)
@JosephWright Nice. UCSB is considerably more picky.
It's almost like different people have different needs...
 
@DanielSank I'm intrigued they specify anything for appendices: those could (in the past) have been say raw instrument output or whatever where one gets no option on appearance
 
@JosephWright Well, I'll fess up that I don't actually know what the rules on appendices were. They did have rules about all kinds of other stuff.
I suppose it was mostly margins and front matter...
 
@DanielSank I've heard such things
 
9:06 PM
But I stand by my point. If nothing else I want the appendices in the TOC.
I can't do that by concatenating pdf files.
 
@DanielSank As I said, it's entirely down to you what code you feel is useful: there are roughly 3k (La)TeX packages for a reason
 
@JosephWright Indeed. We wouldn't have had that exchange if not for "tut tut" ;)
Ooooh you're a chemist.
What do you work on?
 
@DanielSank It sounded initially as if you were talking about reusing text in the 'main body' of a document: there I'd be concerned that direct reuse of any substantial part would mean that the necessary editing hadn't happened
 
Good evening to everybody!
 
@DanielSank Organometallic catalysis, currently iron, nickel, molybdenum mainly; energy focussed at present, in the past more toward organic synthesis
@Sebastiano Evening
 
9:08 PM
@JosephWright Well, I keep my TeX files very small on purpose, precisely so that they can be reused as needed. I do realize that actually publishing the smaller bits e.g. on arXiv is another, possibly better solution.
@JosephWright groovy. Energy focused as in energy storage?
 
@DanielSank I do mainly energy transduction (H2 use/production, CO2 to fuels, etc.)
 
@egreg Esteemed @egreg not worry at all. I knew you were very busy. Here now it is very cold.
 
@DanielSank I've written more-or-less the same introduction many times, but I can't reuse the text verbatim as that would be self-plagarism (and copyright is transferred to the relevant publishers on acceptance)
 
@JosephWright Well yeah, publication in journals is <1% of what I write though.
I've published what... 3 papers totalling maybe 15 pages, but I've written hundreds of pages of technical documentation.
 
@Sebastiano We are at 2 degrees
 
9:11 PM
@DanielSank orcid.org/0000-0001-9603-1001 if you want the 'official' view
 
@DanielSank Depends of course on our subject area: I've got grant proposals and the like to do as well, but they aren't done in LaTeX and have to fit into whatever structure the funder demands
 
@JosephWright Oh you're a prof.
 
@egreg Here six degrees
 
@DanielSank there are packages that do that around
 
9:13 PM
@DavidCarlisle Called?
 
@DanielSank Nope, I'm a university lecturer ;) (In the UK 'Professor' is a particular grade and is not a title I'm entitled to!)
 
I found coseoul but it doesn't do what I want.
 
Good evening to the new arrived
 
@JosephWright Ah.
 
@DanielSank There's a move here toward US-style titles, which is very odd to me (and I suspect others)
 
9:14 PM
::shrugs::
 
@Sebastiano so warm then:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Making jokes ??? ahahh. Here we are used to higher temperatures. In Sicily we are near to Africa.
 
@DanielSank can't remember:-) but the requirement comes up from time to time and I've seen packages either here or comp.text.tex or in bug reports or somewhere (hard to remember them all:-)
@Sebastiano we were below zero this morning
 
@DavidCarlisle Well, hopefully if I release mine someone will see it and email me saying that I've reproduced something that already exists. XD
 
@DavidCarlisle I was a week in London five years ago. And 'beautiful even if it's cold.
 
9:21 PM
Thanks for your help, all.
 
9:34 PM
Meanwhile I greet everyone and I am sending my warmest regards from Sicily.
Bestttttttttttttt regards and good work
 
9:50 PM
@Sebastiano Buona notte!
 
 
1 hour later…
cfr
10:51 PM
@DanielSank I do this all the time when assembling course readers. Perfectly straightforward.
@DavidCarlisle combine?
 
@cfr possibly (never used any of them)
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle agreed. It's -3C here just now...
 
6
Q: Define nested sections in a relative way

SimbiWhen working with large tex documents I often find myself using search/replace to restructure them (eg. make sections out of chapters or subsubsections out of subsections) Is there any way to define my chapters/sections relatively? So that instead of \chapter{one} \section{two} \section{three}...

2
Q: Can I have relative sectioning: Chapter +1 Section +1 Subsection -2 Chapter again

Fernando CésarI found myself changing text between sections and parts and between a document with chapters and another only with sections. This means converting chapters and sections to sections and subsections and vice versa. Is there a way to avoid this? I thought about having relative sectioning, where you...

@DanielSank ^^ for example
@yo' @PauloCereda would love it
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle I'm sure he would, from the warmth of the house, with a glass of whisky or Christmas punch :-)
 
cfr
11:10 PM
@JosephWright Is there a vegan hat option? The site has just clothed me in bits of dead pig :(.
 
yo'
11:20 PM
@cfr you can always I hate hats as I do.
 
@yo' I just ignore them:-)
 
11:32 PM
@cfr How?
@DavidCarlisle That is not enough. I explain why in this post.
@DavidCarlisle @cfr In the post linked in my previous comment, I give a detailed explanation (with examples!) of why the usual modularity solutions do not work. It would be very nice if someone would please read that post and perhaps comment on whether there are existing solutions that solve the problems explained therein.
In short, suppose I write an article on subject X with sections A and B.
Now I want to write an article on subjects X and Y. I'd like to include the content of my first article as a section in the new article. How to do this?
 
11:53 PM
@DanielSank must admit I'm not that much of a fan of import:-) tex.stackexchange.com/questions/345450/… I think \input is somewhat underused:-)
@DanielSank there are two rather different cases, one on which the original article was written with no knowledge of the requirement using standard markup, but must be included unedited into another, in that case some kind of relatively fragile preamble skipping is needed, but if the documents are being written specifically for this use, just using separate files that are \input is a lot more robust
 

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