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9:48 AM
May i ask if anybody else is annoyed by links just stating here?
 
@Johannes_B I used to go with links like those in the past, mea culpa. :)
 
@PauloCereda We all have been young once ;-)
 
10:21 AM
@Johannes_B not os helpful I think, yeah. Then it seems more polite to just say, there are answer on SX, go and search for it
because then it is clear what one is trying to tell :-)
 
@FrankMittelbach I think everybody that takes the time to help somebody by finding stuff, can take the 30 seconds to make the link readable. ;-)
 
@Johannes_B well depends on the situation ... I remember I searched 30 minutes for something I wrote in the past but couldn't for the heck find it again
 
@FrankMittelbach Sadly, i know that feeling.
 
only thing I new was that it was there ... and that I was not clever enough to do the right kind of search (not that in that case other are necessarily more likely to find it :-) )
 
@FrankMittelbach We regularly get questions by people that just don't know what floats are supposed to do. Pointing them to your answer that made it to TUGboat doesn't seem the right thing to do. What do you think?
 
10:43 AM
@daleif @Manuel may I call you in chat? Just to keep the comments area free
@HenriMenke as well, if you want to defend your MathOperator choise...
 
11:00 AM
@Johannes_B that's the usual problem of people these days not bothering to read any documentation as apps are supposed to be selfevident ... you can really only point to something like "LaTeX short guide" and tell them to grasp the basics first (I think) how much good this does ... who knows
 
@FrankMittelbach Peter Wilson also left a nice description of the algorithm in the memoir manual. It is not memoir specific, so I usually refer to that.
 
@Johannes_B we need a revised form of the duck test: If it's in a table or a figure environment, it's a float, and if it's a float, it floats around your document like a duck in a pond. :-)
 
@PaulGessler it doesn't float in a pond, more in a river as upstream floating really isn't happening (much)
 
@PaulGessler ooh duck-driven development.
 
11:17 AM
@FrankMittelbach the destruction of all analogies is in the confounding details. :-)
@FrankMittelbach speaking of floats, in case you care to steal a tick or two from David: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/225787/… tex.stackexchange.com/questions/225795/…
 
Wondering, what is the proper method of getting \, to disappear if a line break follows it in the text. Example: $\{ x \in X \, \vert\, \allowbreak x > 0 \}$, if there is a break at \allowbreak it seems to me that the \, is still present, which does not look nice. Especially not if one is also using microtype.
 
@daleif May be using \discretionary rather than \allowbreak?
 
@PauloCereda If you ever visit Norfolk, you have to come over Easter:
:-)
 
@NicolaTalbot ooooooooooooh
 
@daleif Just a last thing about it, I have been using \id lately not as an operator, but as a macro. It never has a subscript in my documents, it has an optional argument \id[A]. Thinking of it as a macro, you have much more liberty and no need to be “more correct” declaring it as an \DeclareMathOperator.
 
11:26 AM
@Manuel will test
 
@PauloCereda Ducks and hats!
 
@Manuel the main problem here is what to recommend to users. Telling people to use operator in some cases and not operator in other cases will leave users confused. Plus the \circ problem remains.
@Manuel not understod?
Remember I'm not breaking at a comma, it it after \, (or some other space that I need to go away)
 
@daleif I misunderstood, in any case \discretionary lets you tell TeX what to put in case of breaking a line (in both sides).
@daleif What \circ problem? The problem is \id \circ f only if \id is declared as \DeclareMathOperator.
 
@Manuel I cannot get that to work in math mode, I'm assuming I need something like \discretionary{}{}{\,}, but that gives the error Illegal math \discretionary
@Manuel It does not solve the problem or using \circ for function combinations with other functions. \sin \circ f also have the same problem.
 
11:35 AM
@daleif May be we shouldn't think of \DeclareMathOperator more than just a tool to declare \log-like operators, not everything.
@daleif May be it doesn't work (I don't know anything about it), it was just a suggestion. Wait for those who know.
@daleif Of course, that's the choice, wether have \id to behave like \sin or to behave like \mathord{..}. But I'm not sure I understand what problem would you like to solve, the problem with \id is definitely solved.
Plus, in some areas id is just an element, and often typeset in italics, e.g., \{ \mathit{id}, \sigma, \sigma\tau \}.
 
11:56 AM
@PaulGessler not sure what the trick is you are referring to ... xor was written by me so ...
would need to get back to it to make it usable one day :-(
 
@FrankMittelbach when David wrote those answers, he told me you would be able to provide better ones (precisely because you wrote it)... I was pointing them out so you could add your own answer(s) if you wanted to.
 
@PaulGessler ahh :-) well in fact back then I marked them for writing something up one day ... day hasn't arrived yet
seems I misread your statement ... I read "trick" not tick so I was wonder what kind of trick David was reveiling there
 
12:15 PM
@Manuel Hmm, I'll throw a general question instead.
0
Q: Make added hspace disapear if at a line break

daleifConsider the following example \documentclass[a4paper]{memoir} \pagestyle{showlocs} \usepackage{amsmath,amssymb} \begin{document} \hspace*{8cm} text text text $\{ x\in X \, \vert \, \allowbreak x > 0\}$ \hspace*{8cm} text text text $\{ x\in X \, \vert \allowbreak x > 0\}$ \end{document} As ...

 
12:47 PM
That was easy \allowbreak \,, thanks to Steven B. Segletes.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:34 PM
@JosephWright I just failed with my first use of xparse. Could you have a look on this command please: `\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{siunitx}
\usepackage{xparse}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\makeatletter
\NewDocumentCommand\angRange{o o m m}{
\leavevmode
\group_begin:
\IfNoValueTF {#1}
{ \@@_list_units:nnn {#3} {#4} { parse-numbers=false } }
{
\keys_set:nn { siunitx } {#1}
\@@_list_units:nnn {\ang[parse-numbers=true,#2]{#3}} {\ang[parse-numbers=true,#2]{#4}} {parse-numbers=false, #1}
}
\group_end:
}
\makeatother
@JosephWright I was hoping to get something like \angRange[range-options][ang-options]{value1}{value2} with the possibility of writing \angRagne[range-options]{1}{2}, \angRagne[][ang-options]{1}{2}, and \angRagne{1}{2} as well.
 
2:50 PM
@LaRiFaRi You'll need to replace @@ properly, for a start (of course that code is all supposed to be internal!)
@LaRiFaRi I'd strongly discourage the idea of having two optional arguments
 
@JosephWright ok. Thank you. It seems that this is a bit too hard for me
 
@LaRiFaRi \ang is a bit of a hangover from the former units packages: I'm not particularly keen on it!
 
I just tried to do a angList in same manner and failed
 
@LaRiFaRi You don't say what failed
 
tex.stackexchange.com/a/234645 This is my work...until now
with the above code, I am getting an command undefined
 
2:53 PM
@LaRiFaRi Almost certainly as you've looked for a non-existent \@@_list_units:nnn rather than \__siunitx_list_units:nnn
 
I also tried to insert some \IfNoValueTF{#2} for the second argument but it did not work
 
@LaRiFaRi Why are you using two optionals anyway?
 
in order to combine the options of range and ang
the OP asked for a command for a range of angs. I succeded in combining them but I will have to leave the [][] for all uses.
 
@LaRiFaRi Don't understand: options for \ang and those for \SIrange are in the same name space
 
I could go the \sisetup way, though
ah, can I say \somecommand[ang-option, range-option]{value1}{value2}? I have not tried that
@JosephWright oh cool. that makes it a lot easier.
thanks
@JosephWright changed it now: tex.stackexchange.com/a/234645 However, I still have to write one pair of empty braces. But as you are thinking about \ang as a 'hangover', I will not spend more time on this. I do not know anything of this @@ syntax... But thank you anyway
 
yo'
3:07 PM
A Popular Question in 14 hours? How did I did it? :D
 
3:26 PM
@LaRiFaRi I think you want \angRange{O{} m m}
 
@DavidCarlisle -- you've got mail
 
3:45 PM
@JosephWright That is absolutely what I want. Thanksy
 
4:20 PM
Hey!
How is everyone? :)
 
5:00 PM
I noticed a curious thing on my system.
root@orwell:/usr/bin# ls -la pdflatex
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Apr 3 2014 pdflatex -> pdftex
root@orwell:/usr/bin# ls -la latex
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Apr 3 2014 latex -> pdftex
Ok, so both pdflatex and latex are the same, as in they point to the same thing. But why pdftex? Isn't latex and tex different?
I mean, they have different syntax and stuff.
 
12
Q: How can latex and pdflatex be both symbolic links to same executable (pdftex) and not behave the same?

Martin G.When I run $ latex my_doc.tex and $ pdflatex my_doc.tex it works, and when I run $ pdftex my_doc.tex it doesn't work. The thing is I noticed that both LaTeX and pdflatex commands are symbolic links to the same pdftex executable. That is, $ which latex pdflatex pdftex yields /usr/bi...

 
@PaulGessler Thanks.
 
@FaheemMitha Here:
[paulo@cambridge Downloads] $ file `which pdflatex`
/opt/texbin/pdflatex: symbolic link to pdftex
 
Oi! O que voce esta fazendo?
 
5:19 PM
@PauloCereda yes, I see. Thanks.
 
5:36 PM
@Iplodman Olá! :) No momento, sendo um pato. :)
file is a good command. :)
 
Bom! ;P
 
@Iplodman :)
 
:)
 
2
Q: Makefile in packages with UNIX commands and latexmk?

Emilio LazoWhat are the rules regarding writing Makefiles to be part of CTAN packages? I would like to include a Makefile in a package I wrote. The package is in .dtx format with its .ins file embedded. When I run make, it generates all package files, including .tex examples. Of course it also compiles th...

Anyone see why the script needs to go to CTAN at all?
 
@JosephWright No need in my humble opinion.
 
5:49 PM
@PauloCereda Same thought here: don't get it!
 
@JosephWright Odd.
 
5:59 PM
@JosephWright @PauloCereda I think (not sure) the intent is to distribute the package as .dtx, .sty/.cls, .pdf documentation, .tex sources for numerous examples (without corresponding .pdf output) and provide an easy way for the end user to compile all the examples in one shot. At least that's the only thing I can think of.
Something similar could be done with an additional .dtx and/or .ins, I think.
 
@PaulGessler Certainly doable, but not I'd say recommended
 
@JosephWright Indeed.
@PaulGessler No arara? boo. :)
 
@JosephWright so "recommended" would be "distribute with all PDF examples pre-generated" in this case?
 
@PaulGessler Yes, I'd say so, but as I've commented almost all end users get this stuff from their distro
 
@PauloCereda you could write an answer using arara :-) : it is a make-like system available to anybody with a TeX distribution. ;-)
 
6:02 PM
@PaulGessler See beamer for example, where there are some Makefiles on CTAN but more-or-less by historical accident (I should fix!)
 
cfr
6:53 PM
Some of my packages include makefiles...
 
7:18 PM
I got a Stephen King book to read while travelling to Spain in the end of April.
 
@PauloCereda Which one?
 
@TorbjørnT. I got Under the dome.
I saw a dude in the bus watching an episode of a series based on this book. :)
 
Ah, I read that one. Not too bad.
 
@TorbjørnT. ooh :)
 
@PauloCereda Yeah, I learned of it from the series as well. Haven't watched the second season though, should get around to doing that sometime.
 
7:28 PM
@TorbjørnT. I'll check the book. Let's see if drives me into the series. :)
 
7:52 PM
@cfr Sure, but there is no real 'guideline' for their inclusion
 
 
2 hours later…
yo'
9:27 PM
good evening, everybody!
@barbarabeeton Would it be interested if someone from the SageMath team wrote an article about SageTeX for TUGboat? I've got couple Sage people at my lab on a conference, I could try to convince them :)
 
@yo' yo
 
yo'
@FaheemMitha yo!
 
I've never heard of SageTeX.
Oh, I see, like sweave.
 
yo'
@FaheemMitha a bit. But the idea of SageTeX is moreorless purely "educational": it's convenient, when you explain some mathematical concept, to increase the impact by showing the examples directly and letting people try it themselves :)
 
@yo' -- sure. actually, there has already been one, in 2011: "A dream of computing and LaTeXing together: A reality with SageTeX", by manjusha joshi, who presented a paper on the subject at tug 2011. take a look at that, please, and if there's more to be said, don't be hesitant about saying it.
 
9:34 PM
@yo' Doesn't it just include the output then?
 
yo'
@FaheemMitha yep, and offers a nice option to show both the input and output in the document
@barbarabeeton Ah I didn't know it's been done :-) I don't think there's any true conceptual progress in SageTeX itself, so it's probably not relevant.
 
@yo' -- take a look anyhow, please. you're more familiar with the topic than i am. even if no actual conceptual progress, sometimes it's not a bad idea to keep a topic visible to its potential audience, especially if it can be done from a different point of view.
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton ok, I'll open the article from 2011 and see :)
 

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