02:02
As I said, I think most kids lie, and most of the time, it is (relatively) harmless. But there was a world view problem here. The lying was to avoid "stupid" consequences for behavior that would everywhere be condemned, except in child's head, it wasn't condemnable. (sp?)
E.g. Got caught cheating on a test in HS. (Not child's first time cheating.) When we discussed the morality of cheating on a test, child's response was that had they studied, they would have passed, so there was no harm in cheating.
Child never recognized or admitted in sincerity that their behavior wasn't acceptable. Child went through three therapists (I attempted to help at every turn) and two psychiatrists before being kicked out of HS for lying, cheating, failing subjects, and being too disruptive in class.
One thing I didn't realize was that this behavior was being subtly modeled for child at home by father, who (according to father) could do no wrong. Father was above the law; the law was for other people.
Yet father was a physician, someone who is supposed to be intelligent, not someone who tells cops to go chase real criminals when they get caught speeding or going through a stop sign, and actually believes it.
And this is why I think my child's case was different: My father was a narcissist (never diagnosed), so I grew up thinking narcissism was normal. But he was in a subclass of narcissists that are mean and punishing.
My ex is a narcissist (professionally diagnosed) but he is in a subclass of "nice guy" narcissists, much harder to recognize as narcissists, but still completely without the self insight to recognize hurtful behavior as long as they acted like nice guys, e.g. no disciplining kids (nice guys kids must never be upset with them or see them as "not nice".)
It was my ex and my child that drove me to study mental illness and get extra certification (a year of training) in the treatment of drug and alcohol addiction and treatment of mentally ill. It was my attempt to understand the profound disconnect I witnessed and couldn't prevent in spite of my best efforts.
I did three years (two years running it) in a drug addiction/alcoholism and mental illness clinic, voluntary and free. That was how I coped.
My child was never (to my knowledge) diagnosed as a narcissist; they did have OCD and ADHD.
I have a lot of empathy for parents with problem kids.
And a lot of experience with therapy for myself to deal with the mental illness of others.
If this is rambling (and it is), Part of that is that I saw my orthopedist today, and I still cannot walk at all, can't do anything with two feet, so I have a lot of time on my hands. (haha) And I'm going out of my mind myself. At least four more weeks of non-weight bearing. :(
@SomeShinyObject I don't know if this is true or not, but I think that if a parent is honest with themself, this is their fate.
I envy you, though. 5 kids!!! What a blessing! I wish I had had the courage to have more.
@Stephie - You're very kind in your comments. They are a pleasure to read. :)
