Vedanta and Philosophy

Tezz

2:49 AM

@brahmajijnasa hi... how are you?...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz Hi, I'm ok, thanks.

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa regarding Brahma Samhita... don't get offended with my comments...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz no, I'm not offended at all, I just wanted to present things from the perspective as Hindu tradition understands it, and Gaudiya vaishnavas in particular

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa regarding authenticity of Upanishads what do you believe... do you believe all 108 Upanishads are authentic...?

brahma jijnasa

3:06 AM

@Tezz well, it's a difficult question, I don't have some definitive opinion on that, but I also like the most those Upanishads that at least some of the previous acaryas has quoted.

Although I don't think that those Up. which were not quoted by acaryas are fake. There could be many Up. genuine and not quoted by anyone.

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa why do you think there are Vaishnava and Shaiva Upanishads... at least in case of Puranas Vaishnava tell it is because they are Tamasic....

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz I don't understand what you mean ... please be specific

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa eg... Atharvasikha, Atharvasiras etc.. Upanishads tell Shiva is ultimate... and Mahopanishad, Narayana Upanishad tell Narayana is ultimate... why so...? In case of Puranas ... ie. For eg. Vaishnava tell Shiva Purana says Shiva is Ultimate because it is tamasic... but one can't tell such in Upanishads...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz well, Atharvasiras and Svetasvatara are Upanishads that have been quoted even by the vaishnava acaryas, so for vaishnavas they are authentic, I'm not sure about Atharvasikha though ... but, ...

... Puranas are completely different thing to consider ... some of them are tamasic and if their verses are tamasic they should be rejected as fake

Tezz

Also Kaivalya Upanishad...

@brahmajijnasa leave Puranas... why such in Upanishads...?

brahma jijnasa

3:19 AM

@Tezz oh, yes, Kaivalya Upanishad was also quoted by the vaishnava acaryas, so for vaishnavas Kaivalya Up is authentic, ... see, vaishnavas do not say that Up are tamasic! This is said only for some Puranas to be sattvic, rajasic, tamasic

@Tezz Regarding the Kaivalya Upanishad, it has been quoted by Shankara I think, and vaishnava acaryas consider all texts that he quoted as authentic, so they think Kaivalya Up is also authentic.

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa other two are NilaRudra Upanishad... which is part of Paipplada Samhita of Atharvaveda... and Rudropanishad which is also known as Sri Rudram....

Also Jabala Upanishad quoted by Shankara... as you can see in my answer here:.. hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/15072/…

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz Is NilaRudra Upanishad embedded in the text of the Samhita, is it there as a part in the text or not?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa it is embedded in text of Samhita... 14.3 of Paipplada Samhita is NilaRudra Upanishad...

As far as I know I found 3 upanishads which are from Samhita: NilaRudra Upanishad, Rudropanishad (SataRudriya), Isha Upanishad...

brahma jijnasa

3:35 AM

@Tezz well, yeah, then all the Samhita texts including the NilaRudra Upanishad and that other Sri Rudram text also, and the Jabala Upanishad quoted by Shankara are accepted as authentic by the vaishnavas

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa but my main question remains the same... which is... Why there are Shaiva and Vaishnava Upanishads?....

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz why do you think that question is important?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa that question is important because there cannot be two different Supreme lords... I answer this question by saying that Shiva and Vishnu are same so there is no contradiction... I want to know how you answer it?...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz well, I'll tell you something about it, there is a different approach to that issue by the vaishnavas as far as I know, ...

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa ok tell.. I just want to know your view...

brahma jijnasa

3:45 AM

@Tezz first I'll tell you what is common vaishnava view on it, and later I'll tell you my view ...

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa ok... go on...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz usually vaishnavas interpreted those verses which say something like "Shiva (or Rudra) is the Supreme Lord or Brahman" to mean that the verse is actually not talking about Lord Shiva (Rudra) who is one of the 3 main Hindu gods (Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu), but the verse is talking about Vishnu, ... and that because ...

... vaishnavas believe that "Shiva (or Rudra)" is name of Vishnu, and not of Rudra who is one of the 3 gods (Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu)!

why is that so?

well, there are two reasons for that, namely:

1) name "Rudra" or "Shiva" is in some scriptures such as Vishnu sahasra nama stotra in the Mahabharata (Mbh), applied as a name of Vishnu obviously, and not as a name of Shiva, and also ...

2) there are many statements in the scriptures that Rudra (Shiva) who is one of the 3 main Hindu gods (Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu), is a jiva soul and thus he is not the Supreme Lord or Brahman, ...

so, when some Upanishad says "Shiva (or Rudra) is the Supreme Lord or Brahman", ...

... it can not mean that it is Lord Shiva (Rudra) who is one of the 3 main Hindu gods (Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu) is that Supreme or Brahman!

Tezz

4:01 AM

@brahmajijnasa ok... so this is common Vaishnava perspective... then what is your perspective..?

brahma jijnasa

but it must be some other god who is just called "Rudra" or "Shiva", and vaishnavas believe it is Vishnu who is refered to in the text to be the Supreme!

@Tezz now, my perspective, ...

Tezz

Ok... go on...

brahma jijnasa

please wait, I can't write fast, ;)

Tezz

Ok ok...

brahma jijnasa

I agree with the above vaishnava interpretation, but with one slight difference, ...

Tezz

4:07 AM

Which difference...

brahma jijnasa

when some Up. or Sri Rudram text of the Yajur Veda says "Shiva (or Rudra) is the Supreme Lord or Brahman", I really think that this is god Shiva or Rudra, but ...

The Destroyer

@brahmajijnasa How can Some acharyas take help of Mahabharatha's (Smriti or Ithihasa) Vishnu Sahasranamam to explain something from eternal Scriptures like"Upanishads and vedas"?

brahma jijnasa

... but this is some other god called "Shiva (or Rudra)"!, and He really is Rudra or Shiva (he has a bull, he has spouse Durga, he has 3 eyes, etc), but he is not living here in this material world as god who is one of the 3 main Hindu gods (Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu), but He is there in Vaikuntha and, yes he is Brahman identical with Vishnu, ... and ...

Tezz

@TheDestroyer haha... yes that is the point... wait let Brahma jijnasa complete his point....

brahma jijnasa

thus he is different god than our Rudra who is living here in this material world !

Tezz

4:15 AM

@brahmajijnasa you mean he is SadaShiva living in Parampadam of Vishnu...

brahma jijnasa

btw, this is a Gaudiya vaishnava view! yes Lord Sadasiva, I wrote that in one of my answers, did you read it?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa yes I read it... Gaudiyas believe SadaShiva is in Parampadam of Vishnu... and Sri Parvatipati is just incarnation of SadaShiva...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz yeah, you understand, good ;)

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa well I just knew Vaishnava view on this matter and find this view funny.. at least Gaudiya view is somewhat better than it...

@brahmajijnasa actually it can very easily proved that Rudra of Vedas and Upanishads is none other than three eyed blue necked Lord who is with Uma...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz it's not funny, it is correct interpretation of scripture, just think about it and you'll understand

Tezz

4:22 AM

@brahmajijnasa haha.. well let me give counter Argument against it...

brahma jijnasa

ok, I'm listening ...

Tezz

Let's start from Kaivalya Upanishad which states Sri Rudram gives liberation/immortality:

brahma jijnasa

ok

Tezz

**उमासहायं परमेश्वरं प्रभुं त्रिलोचनं नीलकण्ठं** प्रशान्तम् ।
ध्यात्वा मुनिर्गच्छति भूतयोनिं समस्तसाक्षिं तमसः परस्तात् ॥ 1.7॥

Meditating on the highest Lord, **allied to Uma,** powerful, **three-eyed, blue-necked,** and tranquil, the holy man reaches Him who is the source of all, the witness of all and is beyond darkness (i.e. Avidya).

So it becomes clear Rudra described in Satarudriya is three eyed blue necked and consort of Uma...

Now let's go to Atharvasiras Upanishad:

He who is Rudra, he alone is god. He is Brahma and we salute him
again and again.
**He who is Rudra,** he alone is god. **He is Vishnu** and we salute him again
and again.

So the Rudra mentioned in Atharvasiras is in form of Vishnu... it is not that Vishnu himself Rudra of Atharvasiras...

Again going on Jabala Upanishad: He who is highest is Avimukta. And Avimukta resides in Varanasi...

Again going on Sri Rudram: "Trayambakam Yajamahe... " "we worship the three eyed one

brahma jijnasa

ok, there is no need to quote many verses, just 1 or 2 is sufficient, now say what is your counter argument

Tezz

4:29 AM

Again going on Svetasvatara: Rudra is Hara, Maheswara, Ishana...

@brahmajijnasa ok... Three eyed Lord is Mahadeva... you don't see Vishnu as three eyed.. blue necked is due to taking poison.. who is also Mahadeva...

@brahmajijnasa and Shiva is also name of Rudra itself from Vedas...

Because roaring he yelled at them that is Rudra’s fierceness (rudratvam). Because they called him sir (bhavān) that is Bhava’s lordship over existence. Because they said you are all this that revealed Śarva’s [prowess] as an archer. Because he then became favorable that is Shiva’s benevolence. Because he became kind to them that is Mṛḍa’s compassion.

That is from Katha Aranyaka of YajurVeda...

And Svetasvatara takes verses which directly speak name of Supreme Brahman from Sri Rudram... so it is clear it is also describing three eyed blue necked lord of Uma...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz ok, and your counter argument is against who? against me and Gaudiyas, or against Ramanujas (followers of Ramanuja, ie Sri vaishnavas), or against who?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa and smriti texts like Mahabharata can't be taken to explain names which are already present in Samhita of Vedas...

@brahmajijnasa it's for those who tell Rudra of Vedas and Upanishad is not three eyed blue necked Lord of Uma / Mahadeva...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz later about the Mbh, first answer my Q above!

@Tezz yeah, but I'm not that one who says that it's not He who is three eyed blue necked Lord of Uma --- haha, that is my point, do you understant that?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa yes I understand it... but you told... along with these points I further believe... so it also applies on You...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz how?

Tezz

4:40 AM

brahma jijnasa
9:51
I agree with the above vaishnava interpretation, but with one slight difference, ...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz and how did you reject my view then? how do you prove my view is wrong?

@Tezz please read what I have said above, and think about it, and tell me how do you prove my view is wrong?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa actually I don't disagree with your view... neither I agree... actually I'm still a seeker and seeking to find the truth...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz hahaha, you are funny, first you said you are against my view, now you changed your mind, haha, ... ok then ... actually this is good, thus you'll learn something .... ;)

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa I read many parts of Vedas and Upanishads... and actually I'm still undecided whether Shiva or Vishnu is Supreme... I find points in both of them... and upto now I consider both as forms of each other... However in this site I mostly write in favour of Shiva... because when I first came to this site there were many answers and persons degrading Mahadeva...

@brahmajijnasa but I disagree with other many views.. for eg. You say Krishna is original personality and Supreme... and there are no Shruti proof for this...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz Yeah, we are all seekers of the truth, .... that is ok

The Destroyer

4:51 AM

@Tezz Resolution is Simple. In Maya, both are true. Both Shiva and Vishnu appears as Supreme to their devotees. Such is the power of Maya. But in reality Brahman no has attributes, no name.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer actually I don't know whether even Advaita us right or wrong... I believe on Advaita but fully believe that there is a good chance that Advaita is wrong...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz I consider both as forms of each other -- yeah, I think like that also, and Gaudiyas think like that, but only Lord Sadasiva, not that other Shiva (Rudra) living here in this material world!

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa actually even Shaivite also believe Parvati Pati has birth... and they also believe SadaShiva to be Supreme....

Eg . Shiva Purana states:

य पतिस्तव देवेशि ललाटान्मेऽभवत्पुरा ।
शिवो रुद्राख्या योगी स वै कैलासमास्थित ।।

O Goddess of the Devas, Your husband had been born out of my forehead and known as Rudra and is dwelling at Kailash as Shiva.

The Destroyer

@Tezz There are never ending arguments on both sides and moreover both devotees are benefiting and both Shiva and Vishnu are worshiped as Supreme in many places and nothing bad is happening to any of their devotees or world. So, in Maya both are one and same just like how we you can be called as student and son to your parents. Also, it's not wise to decide who you are truly son or student. Same here between Vishnu and Shiva.

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz but fully believe that there is a good chance that Advaita is wrong -- yeah, think about it, thoroughly

The Destroyer

4:55 AM

@Tezz What can make Advaita go wrong?

Tezz

@TheDestroyer yes it is true...

@TheDestroyer the first thing is arise of cause of duality... upto now I think it is because we ourselves are Brahman and cause of duality which is false is also due to our wish .. but this can be wrong...

The Destroyer

@Tezz Moreover, these sectarian people believe the world as real but everything changes in world and even their theories and opinions are subjected to change.

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz nice verse, where is it located in, you know verse number, or you have the text?

The Destroyer

@Tezz Yes. I disagree with you here. No one can explain cause of dualities. Did you read Vivekanada explanation?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa not only Advaita I actually believe whether Vedanta itself is right or wrong... maybe Yoga and Sankhya are right...

@brahmajijnasa see in my answer here:

4

Q: Wouldn't most of the incarnations of Devi be of Sati, not Parvati?

As discussed in this question Parvati Devi married in the Vaivasvata Manvantara, before which Shiva was married to Sati Devi. Since most asura wars happened in previous Manvantaras, would that mean that Sati Devi was the one who took all those incarnations? Also to be noted is that many of the as...

@TheDestroyer I think Vivekananda says this is Ati Prasna...

The Destroyer

4:59 AM

@Tezz He says Maya itself is Maya.

@Tezz You can understand about maya when you become Jivanmukta but even a Jeevanmukta can't explain due to veil of Maya or wall of ignorance.

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa it's from Rudra Samhita chapter 11...

@TheDestroyer yes... but this doesn't mean that this view is completely right....

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz do you have a link to it?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa ok wait... I will send you screenshot of it...

The Destroyer

@Tezz Yeah. We must know all views but as far as to me, only best explanation is from Advaita in Vedanta School. There are many things beyond mind. Same is Brahman and Maya. I think all things can't be explained by books.

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz if you are interested in that other question but I disagree with other many views.. for eg. You say Krishna is original personality and Supreme... and there are no Shruti proof for this -- I can tell you few things about it

Tezz

5:07 AM

@brahmajijnasa see verse 21...

@TheDestroyer yes best explanation is from Advaita....

@brahmajijnasa well what can you tell about that...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz thanks for the picture, what book is that, is it online?

The Destroyer

@brahmajijnasa So, you are Gaudiya?

brahma jijnasa

@TheDestroyer yes

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa that is Shiva Purana... I can send it to you if you need... actually @TheDestroyer gave me...

The Destroyer

@brahmajijnasa Ohh. Where do Vedas say Krishna as Supreme?

brahma jijnasa

5:12 AM

@Tezz do you have gmail and google disk? you can upload there on the disk and give me a link?

The Destroyer

@brahmajijnasa BTW, i'm not against Krishna (obviously i'm Advaitin) but against some Gaudiyas. They have weird theories and explanations.

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa you can actually write your gmail here... and immediately remove it... then I'll send jt to you....

The Destroyer

@brahmajijnasa I can share it with you. I have it in my drive. Mail me, my email is in my profile page.

Tezz

I think this is copyright... so can't be uploaded to google drive...

The Destroyer

@Tezz haha. You can upload but shouldn't share on public forums.

Tezz

5:14 AM

@TheDestroyer ok...

The Destroyer

@Tezz even while sending , you are actually sending heavy files via Google drive.

in Gmail.

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz @TheDestroyer I think I can download it quickly and you can delete it later, in few hours

Tezz

@TheDestroyer ok I'm using from mobile it may hang... you send to brahmajijnasa...

The Destroyer

@brahmajijnasa i think it's not good idea. We should obey rules of this forum. You can leave email tio me. I can add you to the file and you can access it. DOn't worry i don't spam you.

brahma jijnasa

@TheDestroyer ok, later I'll sent you mail, thanks in advance

Tezz

5:19 AM

@TheDestroyer oh... so you kept email adress in your profile...

The Destroyer

@Tezz yeah. the other one

Tezz

@TheDestroyer yes... I just checked...

The Destroyer

@brahmajijnasa BTW, you can download Complete Puranas from this answer but they don't have Sanskrit verses and not text searchable.

7

Q: Complete English translations of Puranas

Some English translations of Puranas can be found online here: Vishnu purana Garuda purana Bagavata Purana Shiva Purana Linga purana Brahmanda Purana Padma Purana (Volume 1&2 missing). Narada Purana (Correct me if any of these sources are abridged or not genuine) What about unabridged versio...

puranas translation-request

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa btw... what do you think about Shiva Gita found in Padma Purana...

brahma jijnasa

@TheDestroyer yeah, good job you did there

@Tezz well, if it is in the Purana I think it is authentic, but I'm not read it completely, so I cant say what to think about it

Tezz

5:27 AM

@brahmajijnasa oh ok... actually it's given by SadaShiva to Rama just as Krishna gives to Arjuna in Mahabharata....

brahma jijnasa

5:46 AM

@Tezz So, if you are interested to know how and why Gaudiyas say that Lord Krishna is the source of Lord Vishnu, you can read about it here: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/25687?m=28037777#28037777

... and then read the continued conversation here:

in Discussion between Keshav Srinivasan and brahma jijnasa, Mar 5 at 19:39, by brahma jijnasa

@KeshavSrinivasan As far as I know, Gaudiya Vaishnava argument about how to properly interpret that verse is not specifically that it has something to do with who the Supreme form of Lord Vishnu is, but it's something else important here.

just click on the above blue link

it was a conversation between me and Keshav Srinivasan, some time ago, ... once in the past

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa ok I'll look it...

@brahmajijnasa however I consider neither Krishna nor Vishnu is speaking there... Nirguna Brahman is speaking there by the medium of Krishna...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz ok, we can talk later if you want to ... There is also Bhagavatam verse that confirms the same, it is verse 1.3.28 --- see at vedabase.com/en/sb/1/3

you can click there at the link of that verse to read Prabhupada's commentary also

Pandya

wow! @brahmajijnasa in this room!

brahma jijnasa

@Pandya why "wow"? :)

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa the main reason for my belief is... when Arjuna asks to repeat Bhagvad Gita in Ashwamedha Parva... Krishna says "Param Hi Brahman Kathitam Yoga Yuktena Tanmaya..."

Pandya

6:01 AM

@brahmajijnasa I think I've seen you first time in this room. (other than Room for you and Keshav)

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz well, nirguna brahman cant speak anything per the Sankara's view ... :) so it must be the Lord who is speaking, obviously

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa in the same as you go in Bhagvatam you find Krishna is source of all... in Devi Bhagvatam Devi is source of all... in Brahmanda Purana sri Lalita is source of all... and so on...

@brahmajijnasa Nirguna Brahman can't speak by itself... but he can speak making a medium like Lord Krishna ..

Pandya

@brahmajijnasa By the way let me know which Vedanta philosophy do you believe in?

brahma jijnasa

@Pandya Gaudiya vaishnava

Pandya

@brahmajijnasa Achintya Bhedabheda right?

brahma jijnasa

6:07 AM

@Pandya yes

@Tezz vaishnavas dont believe this Advaita thing to be the correct one, I can only say why and how Gaudiyas think that Krishna is source of all avataras

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa well... all evidences you are giving are from smriti Itihasas... can you give evidences from Vedas?..

SwiftPushkar

Hii all💐

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar hi..!

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - अति रूद्र वाले क्वेश्चन का आंसर नहीं दिया लगता किसीने :)

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz well, that thing is difficult because there is not explicit statement in the Shruti like those few in the Bhagavad gita and the Bhagavatam, but Gaudiyas think that Smriti scriptures are also valid vedic knowledge, so for them those Smriti verses are proof enough about the position of Lord Krishna

Tezz

6:14 AM

@brahmajijnasa but what do you think why Krishna was not revealed in Vedic verses... as Supreme personality of Godhead he should have been revealed in Vedas...

SwiftPushkar

@Pandya @brahmajijnasa - Hello to you both 💐

Pandya

@SwiftPushkar Hello! I can't read the last character "💐"

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar मुझे लगता हे कि उसका significance मिल्ना कठिन हे ।।

SwiftPushkar

@Pandya - ohh its graphic symbol of bunch of flower :)

Pandya

@SwiftPushkar ok

brahma jijnasa

6:17 AM

@SwiftPushkar Hi

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - मुझे लगता है जरूर कुछ बड़ा ही महत्त्व है , कहीं तो उसको जरूर लिखा होगा

Pandya

@brahmajijnasa btw, where do you live (can you read Devanagari?)

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz How do you mean that? Dont you know that Lord Krishna is mentioned in several Shruti texts?

SwiftPushkar

@brahmajijnasa - yes ,how are you :) whts the discussion

@brahmajijnasa - i am from maharastra :)

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar may be it's in Shiva or Linga Purana...

SwiftPushkar

6:20 AM

@KrishnShweta - kya haal chaal hai :)@Tezz yes , will try to find it in some of the books on pooja ,which i have :)

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa where is it?.. are you talking about verses mentioning Vishnu...?

brahma jijnasa

I live in Croatia, Europe, I cant read devanagari

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar ok...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz no, I'm talking about verses that talk about Krishna!

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa where is it..?

brahma jijnasa

6:28 AM

@Tezz Gopala tapani Upanishad, Kalisantarana Up, to name a few --- then you have the Maha Narayana Upanishad translated by Svami Vimalananda:

"I-38: The earth is the giver of happiness like the milch cow, the sustainer of life and support for all living beings. (Represented as such the earth is addressed): Thou wert raised up by Krishna in His incarnation of the boar having hundred hands."

@Tezz Chandogya Upanishad (3.17.6) mentions Krishna as krishna devaki putra "son of Devaki"

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - excellent explanation and good answer :)

Where is@TheDestroyer

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa oh I first time knew Krishna was mentioned in Taittaria Aranyaka...

@SwiftPushkar which answer?...

@brahmajijnasa but Chandogya Upanishad Krishna is not Lord Krishna...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz Narayana Upanishad also says devaki putra --- "son of Devaki" --- this is a clear reference to Krishna because we know him as the son of Devaki!

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa but my main concern is in revealed parts of Vedas... ie. Eternal words part ie. Samhitas...

He should have been revealed in Samhitas which are eternal words...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz yes, Taittaria Aranyaka, --- yes, it is Lord Krishna in the Chandogya Up

@Tezz Who says that Upanishads are not eternal words of the Lord?

Tezz

6:37 AM

@brahmajijnasa the message of Upanishad is eternal but they are not word to word eternal... only Samhita are eternal upto word to word...

@SwiftPushkar are you talking of this answer:

3

A: How will the Kalki avatar look like?

Lord Kalki will receive a horse, a sword and and an all knowing parrot (Suka) from Lord Shiva. His physical appearance is described by his wife Padmavati, Demi Gods and others too.. This is described very nicely in Kalki Purana... Lord Kalki after his sacred thread ceremony goes to Lord Parashur...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz that is not true, who told you this nonsense?

Tezz

Or this answer:

1

A: Why didn't Lord Vishnu drink the poison that came out from the churning of ocean?

These type of questions can't be answered in absolute perspective: One can generate infinite number of questions regarding why some xyz deity did only a particular role in particular abc story ? Even though let's try to answer this question relatively. Shaivites may say that even Lord Vis...

@brahmajijnasa it is not nonsense it is told itself in Vedas....

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz where?

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - yes this one , about Vishnu and poision :)

Pandya

in Hinduism, 26 secs ago, by Pandya

0

A: Should we change the community name to Sanatan Dharma

From What is the origin of the word “Hindu”?, It is clear that: The word “Hindu” was originally coined by the ancient Persians to describe the people living east of the “Sindhu”, or Indus River. It was the name given by Islamic invaders. To them everyone living beyond the river Sindhu we...

Tezz

6:42 AM

@Pandya no we shouldn't change... most people don't understand that term..

@brahmajijnasa in Satapatha Brahmana... see this chapter:sacred-texts.com/hin/sbr/sbe43/sbe4362.htm

"He arranged the Rik-verses into twelve thousand of Brihatîs , for of that extent are the verses created by Prajapati. "

See my answer here:

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A: The number of syllables in the Rig Veda - 4,32,000

Yes, It is true that Rig Veda consists of 4,32,000 syllables. It is verified by Shatapatha Brahmana in 10:4:2:23 He arranged the Rik-verses into twelve thousand of Brihatîs , for of that extent are the verses created by Prajapati. At-the thirtieth arrangement they came to an end in the Paṅkti...

SwiftPushkar

@Pandya - agree with tezz , we can do that in case of local sites but dont think that would be appropriate for this site

Tezz

No. Of syllable is constant... for eg. It is 432000 for RigVeda... which holds true only for Samhita part...

@brahmajijnasa if we go on adding syllable of Brahmana Aranyaka and Upanishads of RigVeda it would reach in billions of syllables...

So Rik verses means only Samhita part...

Similar in case of Yajurveda Samaveda and Atharvaveda also...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz and how I can see from that that Upanishads are not eternal at their words?

SwiftPushkar

@Pandya -. Nice answer at meta :)

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa Upanishads are not eternal word by word because they are composed by sages... not heard... anyway however their message are eternal...

SwiftPushkar

6:50 AM

@Tezz @Pandya - also i think we all should try to clear all the unanswered questions on this site so that the sucess rate also go up and less unanswered questions will remain ,wht You people think?

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar what do you mean by clearing..... answering or deleting?..

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz I dont agree with that, Up are also eternal at their words, and I cant see from your quotes above that they are not eternal at words

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa ask @KeshavSrinivasan... he also says... Upanishads are not eternal words by words...

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - clearing =answering , but some of those are old and unanswerable can also be deleted

Tezz

For eg.. during debate betn Yajnavalkya and Gargi.. they could use different words to debate... @brahmajijnasa

It is not that they will always be predestined to use the same words in their debate... at same length..

However it is true that their message is eternal...

SwiftPushkar

6:54 AM

@Tezz - long pending since 2 years or so , this is to increase sucess rate also ,

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar Yes I mostly do that... actually I have 17 Necromancer badges....

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - yes 😊

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz well, I think that Keshav Srinivasan don't know some things properly, and I'm sure that he is wrong if he thinks that Upanishads are not eternal at their words, ... I'll give you some reasons for that ... when I find some quotes ...

@Tezz do you also think Aranyakas are not eternal at their words?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa so do you think debate of Yajnavalkya and Gargi and with others goes same in each ages... can't they change just word or syllable of debate..?..

@brahmajijnasa yes only Samhitas are eternal.... neither Aranyakas nor Brahmanas are eternal word by word...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz Yajnavalkya and Gargi, yes, they have the same words eternally

SwiftPushkar

7:03 AM

@Tezz @Pandya - who proposed hinduism SE .

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz Aranyakas also have the same words eternally!

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa this is to say that everything is predestined at all level... and actually so there is also no use of desiring liberation....

@brahmajijnasa who told you that?...

Most Upanishads are part of Aranyakas...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz this is to say that --- what you are talking about?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa I'm talking about where is it that Aranyakas are eternal word by word...

@brahmajijnasa what you are telling is... in next creation when another Yajnavalkya and Gargi come they will use same words in their dialogue without a change in a syllable... as words used by present Yajnavalkya and Gargi... who also used same words as previous Yajnavalkya and Gargi...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz yeah, exactly like that

Tezz

7:11 AM

@brahmajijnasa this means that everything is predestined to a very precise level.... it is not possible... all Yajnavalkya and all Gargi will not have same past karmas in all creation... they differ slightly...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz haha, what you are talking about? who says that they must have same karmas to the slightest detail?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa if they don't have same karma... they can't repeat the same word in same manner like that in previous creation...in the same debate... at same time etc...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz only that part of their life when they talk Upanishad verses must be the same predestined events, not their whole life!

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa well we won't agree on this matter... leave it... however think of lost Sakhas of Vedas.. there are about 1131 Shakhas... so there are at least 1131 Upanishads... 1131 Brahmanas and 1131 Aranyakas.. this is just at leas value... many human stories are described in them... if they all are eternal... think the condition of world... everything will just be predestined... due to huge stories being always predestined...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz even you today can recite the same verses like they said, so the same thing is true with you also

Tezz

7:21 AM

And finally we will come to the level that in the previous creation also we used the same words in this chatroom.. haha...

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - add location "Dandakarnya" to answer :)

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar which answer?...

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz 1 st question

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar Ok.

Tezz

Which is 1st question..?

The Destroyer

7:24 AM

@brahmajijnasa Are you Indian?

SwiftPushkar

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Q: Where did surpanakha lost her Nose?

According to Ramayana, Lakshmana, cut off the nose of Surpanakha. But where did surpanakha lost her Nose?

mythology ramayana

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz think the condition of world... everything will just be predestined... -- so what if they are predestined? they are predestined! haha

The Destroyer

or Hindu?

Tezz

@TheDestroyer oh ok...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz I don't believe that we spoke in the chat in the previous creation :)

@TheDestroyer No

Tezz

7:27 AM

@brahmajijnasa so if Upanishads are eternal... as described in Gopala Tapaniya Upanishad.. Krishna should come to earth in every Manvantara but we don't see that..

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar Added.

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz yes, Lord Krishna descends to this earth once in a day of Brahma

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - Yes ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Five stars to answer 😊

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar Thanks!

@brahmajijnasa Ohh.. You are Europian.

@brahmajijnasa Good you are interested in Krishna.

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa not once... Vedic events repeat in Manvantara... as Indra changes in Manvantara...

brahma jijnasa

7:31 AM

@TheDestroyer yeah European, I am interested :)

@Tezz so?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa oh you are European... you know much about Hinduism...

@brahmajijnasa so Krishna should also come in each Manvantara...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz I started in the year 1990, it's 26 years now

@Tezz I said Lord Krishna descends to this earth once in a day of Brahma!

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa what attracted you towards Lord Krishna..?...

@brahmajijnasa actually it's a big problem to relate Vedic and Puranic event... leave it..

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz Iskcon devotees

The Destroyer

@Tezz In one way ISKCON is successful in this but they actually misinterpret and demean other philosophies. Everything comes with good and bad.

Tezz

7:35 AM

@TheDestroyer yes...

brahma jijnasa

I'm not member of Iskcon though

The Destroyer

@brahmajijnasa ohh.. Good.

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa what about your family?... which religion is followed?...

@TheDestroyer btw... there is change in reputation when accounts are deleted... did you noticed?...

brahma jijnasa

but I have appreciation of Iskcon, they introduced me to Lord Krishna --- my family: some are christians, some atheists

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa how old are you..?

The Destroyer

7:38 AM

@Tezz Yes. That's how i figured that Krishna deleted his account.

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz 42

The Destroyer

@brahmajijnasa Can you read Devanagari/Sanskrit?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa oh ok... what do you read nowadays..?

brahma jijnasa

@TheDestroyer no devanagari, I don't know Skt, just some words I know

The Destroyer

@brahmajijnasa ok.

Tezz

7:41 AM

@brahmajijnasa you could have tried to learn Devanagari in 26 yrs....

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz I'm reading Gaudiya vaishnava books, and sometimes verses from the scriptures, Gita, Bhagavatam, Rig Veda, Upanishads, etc

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa oh ok.. go on learning..

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz well, maybe I didn't find the time to do that :)

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa Ok...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz yes, it's good to know to read Devanagari

Tezz

7:45 AM

@brahmajijnasa are you initiated in Gaudiya Vaishnavism or not..?

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz no

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa don't you have plan to be initiated..?

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz no. I'm good like I'm now, not interested to be a member of any group

@Tezz see about eternal words of the Aranyakas here:

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa oh so you became Hindu just by self study of scriptures..

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz yeah, and I listened many lectures by the Iskcon devotees

Mahabharata Book 12: Santi Parva: Section CCCXL

sacred-texts.com/hin/m12/m12c039.htm

"the great Deity, called by the names of Hari and Narayana, by his other mouths, multitudinous in number, uttered many mantras from the four Vedas which are known by the name of Aranyaka"

see, Aranyakas are called Vedas here!

@Tezz this means they are integral part of the Vedic text, and thus eternal at their words like Samhitas are eternal in the same manner

Tezz

7:53 AM

@brahmajijnasa Aranyaka are called Vedas... Veda are four parts Samhita, Brahmana, Aranyaka and Upanishad...

But Samhitas are the only heard Mantras during meditation...

So they are only eternal word by word...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz not true!

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa ok we will not agree on this... but I think you might be true...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz yeah, I am right, and acaryas told the same about Upanishad also, one more thing ...

you know that some Up are there in the Samhita text, right?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa yes Isha and NilaRudra Upanishads are from Samhitas..

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz so this is also a proof they are eternal at their words!

do you understand that?

Tezz

7:58 AM

@brahmajijnasa haha... this can't be proof that all Upanishads are eternal... for eg. You can also call Purush Sukta, Nasadiya Suktas etc.. as Upanishads...

Similarly some Upanishads are Brahmanas and some Aranyakas...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz yes, it is a proof! just like some Up, then all of them are like that, haha, and one Yajur Veda has Brahmana portion embeded in the Samhita, right?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa yes Taittariya Samhita has Brahmana Portion embedded

brahma jijnasa

that's why in the above Mbh verse it is said uttered many mantras from the four Vedas which are known by the name of Aranyaka

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa Aranyakas can be Samhita mantras also which are uttered in Forests (Aranya)... haha..

brahma jijnasa

see, there are proofs, just admit them, do not deny them :)

Aranyakas can be Samhita mantras also which are uttered in Forests (Aranya)... haha --- this is also a proof they are eternal at their words, haha

Tezz

8:04 AM

@brahmajijnasa haha... I'm denying thinking of lost Shakhas of Vedas... out of 1131 Shakhas what we have is just only about 11 Shakhas..

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz I don't follow you --- what you mean?

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa which makes there are thousands of Aranyaks, Brahmanas and Upanishads... containing huge human stories.. which I think is impossible..

brahma jijnasa

it is possible

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa actually it would be good if all portions were eternal word by word... maybe it is... or it might not be also...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz you don't follow the evidence, just think about everithing and you will understand ... eventually

Tezz

8:11 AM

@brahmajijnasa ok... may I understand eventually... hope so...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz ok, just take all the evidence I said above and think

Mbh Book 1: Adi Parva: Section I -- sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01002.htm --

" ... As butter is in curd, Brahmana among bipeds, the Aranyaka among the Vedas"

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa by all your above evidence... I believe Aranyaks are eternal... but I still don't believe they are eternal word by word....

@brahmajijnasa it's told so in Adi Parva because Aranyaka are Jnana Kanda...

And Jnana is the cause for liberation...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz well, "among the Vedas" means they are there in the Vedas, the same as Vedic Samhitas are Vedas

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa I'm not denying Aranyakas are Vedas.. I'm just saying they are not eternal words by words....

Some syllable can change with same meaning in next creation.... like that...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz I think evidences are quite good, and sufficient --- you can't prove that!

Tezz

8:19 AM

@brahmajijnasa wait I'll research further.. and also discuss with @KeshavSrinivasan ... then will make my belief...

brahma jijnasa

@Tezz ok, just use your own brains and try to understand, nice to talk to you, goodbye

Tezz

@brahmajijnasa ok good bye... nice to talk with you too....

Tezz

8:41 AM

@KrishnShweta hlw.. how you slept yesterday..?

Krishn Shweta

@SwiftPushkar Kuch nahi. Suffering from cold

SwiftPushkar

@KrishnShweta - ohh ok ,take good rest and Get well soon :)

Krishn Shweta

@Tezz Hi!! Well, after finishing my work, I went to bed at 11:40 I think but slept around 1:00 again.

@SwiftPushkar Thanks.

SwiftPushkar

@KrishnShweta @Tezz - we should actually take 8 hours sound sleep everyday , its too imp. All our memory and cognition is deeply related to sleep .

Krishn Shweta

8:57 AM

@SwiftPushkar I wish I would sleep for 8 hrs soon.

SwiftPushkar

@KrishnShweta - Yes :)

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