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7:21 AM
@KeshavSrinivasan but it isn't necessary that Brahman can only be the cause for all these (aggregation of atoms).... It can happen through simple cause and effect process... cause and effect are existing from eternal time... and just as Vedanta tells origin of Jeeva can't be traced.. similarly origin of cause effects also can't be traced... but this is happening through cause and effects...
@KeshavSrinivasan do you have Srimad Bhagvatam translation other than translated by Prabhupada/Iskcon ?.... ....
 
7:35 AM
@Tezz But we're not talking about cause in the past here, we're talking about the cause in the present moment.
@Tezz Here's another translation of the Srimad Bhagavatam: bhagavata.org
@Tezz Also, there is a book by S. Subba Rau which provides a translation of the Srimad Bhagavatam along with the interpretations of the verses by the Advaita, Dvaita, and Visistadvaita commentators.
 
8:21 AM
@Tezz S. Subba Rau's book is in two volumes which are in the Digital Library of Indis, but unfortunately it's a very high resolution scan so the file sizes are humongous. In any case here is volume 1: dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/272624
@Tezz And here is volume 2: dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/273815
@Tezz I don't know why the scanned it like that, but in any case you would need over 2GB space on your computer just to store the two books.
 
8:39 AM
@KeshavSrinivasan cause in present moment is the effect of cause of past moment... and in the same way these cause-effect relationship goes on....
Oh thanks for the link...
@KeshavSrinivasan I think translation of that bhagavata.org is better than Prabhupada translation...
@KeshavSrinivasan who are the Advaita commentators who have commented on Bhagvatam...?
 
 
6 hours later…
2:25 PM
@KeshavSrinivasan what is the hierachy of Gods and Godesses in Shaktism ...?
 
3:04 PM
@Tezz "cause in present moment is the effect of cause of past moment... and in the same way these cause-effect relationship goes on...." Well, but we can still talk about the sequence of causes in the present moment. For instance, if I throw a ball, then in some sense I am the cause of the ball's motion. But we can still ask what is the cause of it continuing to move at the present moment, the answer to which is that it's moving of its own accord.
@Tezz Similarly, regardless of what happened in the past, we can still ask, in the present moment what entity is the cause of the Samskara Skanda making the atoms aggregate? Is the Samskara Skandha doing so in the present moment of its own accord, or because of some other atom or Skandha?
@Tezz The Advaita commentator discussed in S. Subba Rau's book is Sridhara Swami, who wrote the Bhavartha Dipika, which is the oldest surviving commentary on the Srimad Bhagavatam.
@Tezz By the way, for a long time the Srimad Bhagavatam was viewed as a work which favored Advaita. It's only later on that various Acharyas wrote commentaries to demonstrate that it does not actually advocate Advaita.
@Tezz Well, Shaktas believe that Adi Parashakti is the supreme being, and then you have various goddesses as her manifestations. Usually Parvati is given more importance compared to other goddesses like Lakshmi and Saraswati. Also, Shiva is given more importance than other male gods. Shiva is also viewed as the male counterpart to Adi Parakshakti, and it's the union of male and female that produces the Universe.
 
3:42 PM
@Tezz Shaivism and Shaktism both glorify Shiva and Parvati, it's just that they place their emphasis differently and they follow different sets of Agamas. Also, the Shaiva Agamas advocate a worldview akin to the Samkhya and Yoga school. The Shakta Agamas, on the other hand, are more inclined to an Advaitic worldview, although in that they see the world as a manifestation of Maya Shakti. But it's different from Adi Shankaracharya's Advaita philosophy.
 
@KeshavSrinivasan In Shaktism I think...
Adi Parashakti> AdiShakti=SadaShiva> Shiva,Parvati> Vishnu, Lakshmi> Brahma, Sarswati...
@KeshavSrinivasan aggregation of atoms on present moment takes place by the virtue of Karmic forces which is produced from Karmic cause...
@KeshavSrinivasan I think in Shaktism Adi Parashakti doesn't have consort... as Para means beyond and she is even beyond the Shakti/Prakirti/feminity... so AdiParashakti should be producer of AdiShakti and SadaShiva....
 
4:10 PM
@Tezz But Sautrantikas believe that the only things that exist are atoms and Skandhas. So anything that happens must be caused by one of those.
 
4:29 PM
@Tezz Well, I think Shaktas believe both Shiva and Shakti transcend the material world. The idea is that Shiva is the force of Purusha, and Shakti is the force of Prakriti, and then they come to together to produce the Universe.
 

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