The Language Lab

StackExchange

17:18

Welcome to chat for: Language Learning

11

This is a general discussion room, but please feel free to create more subject-specific rooms (a single room with every possible discussion isn't very helpful)

For playing with chat features:

Sandbox

Where you can play with chat features (except flagging) and ch...

2

and remember; please read the FAQ ;p)

Downgoat

Hi

Matthew Piziak

Hi

Aren't the commitment questions supposed to be automatically transferred from Area51?

Quill

no @MatthewPiziak

Downgoat

is anyone planning on posting the first question soon?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Wow, I've never been in a private beta b4. Much less one that is < 5 minutes old.

Quill

17:23

I got a single digit ID :D

Downgoat

aww, I'm only 21

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

=( I'm 27.

Downgoat

4

Q: Are there any studies which address the effectiveness of studying multiple related languages simultaneously?

What studies, if any, address the study of multiple related languages (Spanish & French; Dutch & German, etc) simultaneously? Does this provide a synergy for the student, as many concepts are similar across the languages, or does it provide confusion, as the languages may have too much overlap t...

ninja'd to the first question!

Matthew Piziak

Thanks @Quill

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

lol, that question has 5 votes and 4 views.

Downgoat

17:25

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ seems legit

Quill

0

Q: Are questions about individual languages on-topic?

While most language concepts are language independent, some are language specific. Should we allow language specific questions?

discussion

Downgoat

:/ meta isn't working for me, I can't upvote

Quill

meta has issues

there were no editor buttons when I went to post

or tag options for that matter

Downgoat

they are also really weird tags on main

Quill

we need some feeds in here

Delta Escher

17:35

Hngh

Nepal

Quill

Can we try and explain close votes, please?

the site scope hasn't been established yet

Delta Escher

Sure

Close votes are votes used to close a question. This does not mean:

1. Close vote things you aren't interested in, but are good questions

2. Close vote questions by users you dislike because why not

Downgoat

Do we have to get mods before we can edit our help center?

Delta Escher

3. Close vote questions that are following the policies

@Downgoat Most definitely

Not necessarily have to, but it's a thing you should do.

Quill

@DeltaEscher not like that

@Downgoat We have to define that site scope on meta before they edit it

Delta Escher

17:44

What should we do, exactly then?

Dum dee dum

Editing wiki tags

Downgoat

I think our biggest source of off-topic questions are going to be like the one's I specified here. We should making it very clear that we are about learning languages, not languages in general.

Delta Escher

People are downvoting my question that is pretty much that

I'm asking if there are any weird Nepalese grammar parts.

Just like how in Spanish, adjectives come after nouns.

Quill

Okay, let's not have poll or list questions please

Delta Escher

Hm.

Quill

nothing along the lines of "what are the weird language features in X"

Delta Escher

17:46

Alrighty.

YviDe

Also, what's "weird"?

Delta Escher

Abnormal

Like unique

Such as grammar things that only Nepalese has.

Quill

@YviDe Yeah, it's a strange wording

Delta Escher

Weird to me means not seen most other places

So it would mean unique

Though I believe I should have specified that

First hour and already -10 rep

justadayinmylife

Downgoat

is meta really borked for other people? I can't vote, or even leave a comment

Quill

17:55

This seems like a question unrelated to Language Learning, closer to Languages in general — Quill 36 secs ago

@Downgoat yeah

Downgoat

It seems like the StackExchange js file isn't even loading :/

Quill

write a userscript to fix it

Downgoat

brb, rewriting entire StackExchange javascript source

Quill

just write a userscript to insert the js file into the header

Downgoat

I do not have the time, I am writing cheddar

wythagoras

18:10

Someone just posted to meta, however, I still can't vote, comment or post.

Downgoat

@wythagoras yeah, all voting and commenting are done through AJAX (JavaScript), and for some reason our JS isn't loading. Someone should post a bug to meta.SE...

Quill

@wythagoras whether books, questions or concepts mention language similarity, that doesn't make it about language learning. Math is a concept mentioned in programming, but that doesn't make math questions on-topic on Stack Overflow. — Quill 48 secs ago

it's site specific; post it to the site meta

for the mean time, you can use the mobile app to vote

Hey there @QPaysTaxes, were you in the commitment? I must've missed your name

Downgoat

@Quill language learners isn't showing up in the mobile app for me :(

Do I have the first tag wiki edit? :D

nope.. I don't

Quill

18:33

0

Q: How to avoid asking opinion-based questions?

Seemingly, a lot of questions are being closed as opinion-based. How can a user avoid asking a question that's primarily opinion-based?

discussion off-topic

Damkerng T.

Congrats, Language Learning!

3

Downgoat

18:51

0

A: How to avoid asking opinion-based questions?

It's just what the close reason says: Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If your question is going to have answe...

Quill

I wasn't asking about what an opinion-based closure means

I was asking for a point of "what terms or concepts are usually opinion-based"

Flimzy

I don't think it's terms and concepts that make something opinion based.

It's the solicitation of opinions that makes something opinion based.

Quill

the concept of "is something good" is generally opinion-based

asking for someone's opinions on something is blatantly opinion-based

Flimzy

Do you have an example of a question you think should not be considered opinion based, but was voted that way?

Downgoat

I can only see like 2 question closed as primarily opinion-based

@Quill updated

Quill

18:58

@Flimzy I'm not quoting a specific question as wrongly closed, I'm trying to get a common consensus on what is and isn't opinion based

Flimzy

I can't interact with meta... wtf?

I can't vote on posts, I can't even click on my mail icon

Quill

yeah... it's a bit broken

Downgoat

@Flimzy yeah, meta's JS is not getting loaded

Flimzy

@Downgoat Oh, cute.

Quill

We need an answer on that "Does studying two languages help" question before we can close the others as duplicates

Downgoat

19:10

0

A: Can't vote or follow certain links on meta

I think this is happening for everyone on the desktop site. It seems like the wrong script is being loaded. It's apparently trying to load: http://cdn.sstatic.net/sites/Js/stub.en.js (which is a 404), where instead http://cdn.sstatic.net/Js/stub.en.js (notice the absence of sites/) should be lo...

Flimzy

I would delete my own duplicate post, but I can't :/

Downgoat

I have written an thing so you can manually do things like voting from the console... I'll see if I can get that working

Flimzy

I'm sure they'll fix it soon.

wythagoras

Should questions on language teaching be on topic?

(I would have asked on meta, but I can't)

Downgoat

@wythagoras why can't you ask?

wythagoras

19:20

@Downgoat Wait, asking is possible. It is just voting and commenting that doesn't work.

Quill

yeah...

Flimzy

the site is about language learning... teaching is part of that process :)

The site's description is "Beta Q&A site for students, teachers, polyglots, and anyone interested the techniques of second-language acquisition."

wythagoras

Okay, I will post the question I had in mind.

Quill

should we have adult learners and child/minor learners tags

Flimzy

Quill: When it's relevant, probably.

Downgoat

19:23

^

Flimzy

Perhaps with an assumption of adult learners, unless child learners are specified?

Downgoat

I don't think child-learners really deserves a tag unless it is a significant part of the question. Tags shouldn't be what the question contains, it should be what it's about.

Quill

well, yeah, something like "are there any studies to show that teaching a child a language from a young age is more effective than X" needs the tag

bleh

Congrats to us...

Downgoat

@Quill I can't add another answer due to the JavaScript not wokring

bilbo_pingouin

19:47

@Quill on the post meta.languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/17/… I guess those answered as that's the only thing they can do... I'm experiencing the same and it's quite frustrating...

Quill

that doesn't make it okay

StackExchange

ArtOfCode has made a change to the feeds posted into this room

bilbo_pingouin

well I have to say that it's a pity that at this stage of the site, the meta discussion are very important and a sizeable portion of the users can't participate

StackExchange

ArtOfCode has made a change to the feeds posted into this room

Quill

Thanks @ArtOfCode

They can ask questions and post answers, most of them probably don't even need to comment

saying "same here" doesn't help anyone

ArtOfCode

19:50

One feed for main questions as a slidey ticker thing, one for meta posts as chat messages.

bilbo_pingouin

you can't up/down vote... so no, you can't participate

for example: @Vihan's answer to the meta.languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/1/… is not clear... there's no way for me to tell that, except writing another answer, which, as you states is not the way it should be done

ArtOfCode

I've pinged a CM and a dev about it. They should be onto it.

Flimzy

Thanks, @ArtOfCode

ArtOfCode

In fact, dev has just responded and is on the case. Which was pretty quick.

bilbo_pingouin

meta discussions about whether something is on/off-topic, the main tool for most users isn't "answer" or "comment" it's the votes

ArtOfCode

19:53

Fixed.

Just over a minute from ping to fix... that's impressive.

Flimzy

yay!

bilbo_pingouin

indeed

Flimzy

Now I can waste another 2 hours on here before I sleep! :P

bilbo_pingouin

same here

ArtOfCode

→ 5 messages moved to Trash

Quill

20:02

I like Flimzy's answer on the studies tag question

we should try and fine a better term for that

Downgoat

@Quill perhaps [research] or [survey]?

StackExchange

0

Q: Are methods recommendation on-topic?

Whenever someone wants to study a new language on their own, they tend to rely on some support. Be it books, CDs, DVDs, Websites, etc. Are questions of the style What would you recommend to learn Spanish the fastest? A la Software or Hardware recommendations. And if it is on-topic, should ...

discussion on-topic

bilbo_pingouin

20:33

aren't those questions: languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/46/… and languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/36/… essentially duplicates?

the problem is the more general one came later and has no answer... so I'm a bit unsure which to vote for duplicates

Flimzy

@bilbo_pingouin No. One is asking for which terminology to use to describe one's proficiency. The other is asking how to test/estimate one's proficiency.

Downgoat

@bilbo_pingouin I'd flag it and see if they can be merged but we have no mods :I

Flimzy

As a student, you'd need the answer to languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/46/…, followed by the answer to languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/36/…

That is to say, I'd want to test my proficiency... (yay, I got a proficiency of X!)

bilbo_pingouin

@Flimzy to use the terminology, you need to evaluate your level...

Flimzy

Then I'd want to know how to describe that proficiency in a way that is most internationally recognized.

bilbo_pingouin

20:36

it's useless to learn of A1.. C2... if you don't know where you stand

Quill

@Downgoat 5 duplicate votes and they get closed as duplicates

Flimzy

@bilbo_pingouin: You don't need to evaluate your level to know which proficiency system to use.

You need to evaluate your proficiency to apply a proficiency system to your skills.

bilbo_pingouin

"how can I describe my proficiency..." needs to evaluate it at some point

Flimzy

That's not the question, though.

I debated whether to spell that out in black and white... I decided to trust the site's readers not to jump to ridiculous conclusions.

I should have known better.. .this is SE. :P

Downgoat

@Quill merge =\= close

Flimzy

20:39

> Is there an internationally recognized standard to describe my language proficiency in my target language(s)?

That's the core of the question.

Quill

@Downgoat there is no such thing as merge

bilbo_pingouin

@Flimzy not the title though... :)

Downgoat

@Quill I'm pretty sure mods (maybe CMs?) can move answers from one question to another

Quill

-2

Q: Will going to the language's country improve my skills as a beginner?

As a beginner in Language X, will immersion in that language's country help a beginner learn the language faster/better? Are there any studies that show that visiting the language's country helps to learn a language faster and better? Preferably studies that focus on beginners, but general stud...

studies travel

Downgoat

or am I stupid?

Flimzy

20:40

@bilbo_pingouin: There's a reason questions have bodies, and not just titles.

Quill

I made that more on-topic, would appreciate feedback if it still isn't

bilbo_pingouin

and titles should reflect the body, not mislead, anyway got more to read :)

Flimzy

@bilbo_pingouin: I believe the title does a good job of describing the question. If you want to suggest an improvement, I'm all ears, though.

Quill

@Downgoat they can move answers, but the answers aren't really relevant

Gilles

Is there any point in effectiveness? It smells very meta to me.

Flimzy

20:42

@Quill As worded now, is the answer not an obvious "yes"?

Downgoat

anyone know if I can embed a youtube video in my answer?

Quill

no

Flimzy

@Gilles Seems unneeded to me.

bilbo_pingouin

@Downgoat you can link to one, but no, not embed one

Downgoat

63

Q: Allow embedded HTML5 YouTube video

Currently, this site embeds YouTube videos as Flash. (see an example: How to unlock the achievements related to hidden areas in Portal 2?) However, this is not the best solution, as now YouTube also supports HTML5, and some users (like me!) prefer to use HTML5 player instead of Flash. Supposedl...

feature-request status-completed youtube

Gilles

20:44

@Downgoat You can't, but it's a feature that exists on some SE sites. If you think it would be good to have, make a request on meta and give your answer as an example.

Flimzy

@Downgoat I think you can provide a link only.

Downgoat

it says status-completed?

oh

Flimzy

> All Stack Exchange sites that have either YouTube or SoundCloud embedding enabled now use the respective IFRAME embeds.

not sure which sites those are. As we're a brand new beta, I would guess we're not on that list.

bilbo_pingouin

@Gilles sounds very opinion-based to me. Are the others wanting to learn languages... in an ineffective way?

Gilles

@Flimzy Brand new betas start without any of the optional features. They have to be requested, with examples.

Flimzy

20:45

@Gilles Which is why I was guessing we don't have those features. :) It was a "highly educated" guess :)

Gilles

Some are no-brainers, like math-heavy sites getting MathJax, or Movies & TV getting Youtube embedding (if it had existed back when Movies started). Some take more time to debate usefuless, like, I would guess, Youtube embedded on LL.

Flimzy

I would probably campaign strongly against youtube embedding on LL... I don't want to be annoyed by it. :P

Quill

it's unnecessary here

Downgoat

It wouldn't hurt anyone and it can be useful for embedding videos of people pronouncing certain words

I'll just use a screenshot + link...

No Name

gilles, i added more information to the re-acquisition question, care to take a look?

bilbo_pingouin

20:54

why was that question: languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/10/… left opened?

Flimzy

@bilbo_pingouin Because it hasn't received 5 close votes yet.

bilbo_pingouin

many questions ask for a "studies" about this or that. Do we want to have a "meta-tag" to mark those? Or should this be the studies?

Flimzy

Well my fellow polyglots (and polyglots-to-be)... I'm happy to see this site take off, and I look forward to getting to know all better over the coming months.

No Name

please forgive me for my naivete, but what's a "meta-tag"?

Flimzy

For now I must sleep. G'day to all.

No Name

21:05

good day ^.^

bilbo_pingouin

as we say... happy $TZ... (relevant to whatever time zone you're in :))

@NoName tags are supposed to indicate the topics covered by your question... a meta-tag is more about the tone... so in this case the meta-tag would indicate specifically that you are looking for answers backed with some published research...

Gilles

@NoName meta-tag = tag that's about the way the question is written, rather than what it's about

No Name

ah okay

Gilles

The Death of Meta Tags

Jeff Atwood on August 7, 2010

There are a few tags on Stack Overflow that have bugged me for a long time. Namely:

bilbo_pingouin

for example: worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/tags/hard-science/info

Gilles

21:09

Rule of thumbs for choosing tags: complete “this question is about ____”

No Name

yeah i think that it would be better to have a meta-tag in that case then

bilbo_pingouin

on WB, we find the hard-science tag to be useful... there shouldn't be too many of them, obviously, but one specific might be useful

Sir Cumference

Howdy

bilbo_pingouin

hi

Gilles

@bilbo_pingouin [hard-science] on Worldbuilding does fit, since it describes the question: hard science questions call for different answers.

Easterly Irk

21:11

@Quill my first answer on this site was to your question. :3

fi12

nice to see you @bilbo_pingouin!

StackExchange

1

Q: What should our chatroom name be?

Stealing from a number of sites, I've decided to bring up the question of what the chatroom's name should be. Sites all over SE have creative, cool room names that not only is related to the site but brings some diversity from our chatroom and others. And our chatroom is lame/bland. I mean look a...

discussion chatroom

1

Q: Are sign languages on-topic

A question related to sign language has been asked on this site. Are sign languages treated as normal languages and are considered on-topic?

discussion on-topic

-2

Q: Where can I ask: 'For learning Latin with 0% experience, which are the best books or resources in Spanish?'?

Can someone please suggest where I may ask (whether on SE or not) the following question? The entitled question is motivated by my cousin, bilingual in English and Spanish, who is assuming that learning Latin from Spanish is easier, because Spanish offers more Positive Transfer and less Lingui...

discussion

bilbo_pingouin

@Gilles yep, but that could be the same here... "hard-sudies" ask for published studies... and not for own experience kind of answers...

@fi12 hi :)

fi12

@bilbo_pingouin you know I'm from WB right? Nice to see some familiar faces!

Feeds

Gilles has made a change to the feeds posted into this room

Easterly Irk

21:17

Need a new name for one of those feeds.

bilbo_pingouin

@fi12 of course... haven't seen you on the chat in the while though... :) I do recognise a few names around... but some are real SE celebrities :)

Gilles

@EasterlyIrk that's what I was doing

Easterly Irk

What is the ticker down one?

Gilles

@EasterlyIrk all questions

Easterly Irk

okai

but what does the slide-down ticker overlay part mean?

Gilles

21:20

@EasterlyIrk they're posted in a separate area at the top of the screen, as opposed to posted as chat messages like the ones from meta

Easterly Irk

okai

Gilles

I hate the ticker, so I have a CSS rule to hide it

Easterly Irk

where is it?

@Gilles did you used to post on PPCG?

Sir Cumference

Should we allow questions about programming languages?

@HDE226868 Oh hey!

Are you everywhere?

bilbo_pingouin

@SirCumference I'd say no. But that's probably a question for meta...

HDE 226868

21:24

@SirCumference Only places where folks don't program.

Sir Cumference

@HDE226868 D:

Easterly Irk

^

@HDE226868 do you not like programming, or not program and don't like people who program, or don't program and don't like talking about that fact?

Gilles

@EasterlyIrk not often

HDE 226868

@EasterlyIrk I know Processing to a ~~decent~~ minor degree, but not much else. I just joined Stack Exchange for Physics and Astronomy and expanded. But enough about me. After being on the site for <5 minutes, I have a question for those more experienced: Why are 11/49 questions on hold already?

bilbo_pingouin

@HDE226868 note that a lot of physicists do program... in a way or another... ;-)

Easterly Irk

21:28

@HDE226868 Because people can't agree on whether language specific questions are on-topic.

bilbo_pingouin

@HDE226868 scope definition/clarification...

HDE 226868

@bilbo_pingouin Yeah. :-) Python is popular, I hear.

Easterly Irk

Also, a lot of the questions that come up are like very subjective.

HDE 226868

@EasterlyIrk Ah, this is going to be an interesting private beta.

bilbo_pingouin

@HDE226868 and fortran for theoretician... ROOT (C++) for experimentalists

Easterly Irk

21:31

@HDE226868 yeah...

SOMEBODY GO REVIEW FIRST POSTS

WE HAVE 17

Sir Cumference

0

Q: Should we allow questions about programming languages?

While they aren't "languages" in the traditional sense, programming languages certainly differ from one another. In some cases, learning programming languages can be like learning spoken languages, and we could offer some techniques to learn programming languages faster. I'm not talking about w...

discussion

Language Learning Meta

-1

Q: What should we do about language tags?

We have french, japanese, english, nepalese, and chinese. I can understand latin as it's a family of languages, but why are the other ones here? This site is a site about language acquisition in general, so most if not all specific language tagged questions would be off-topic. Should we burni...

discussion tags burninate-request

0

Q: Is the name change proposal "Second-Language Acquisition" really appropriate?

Over on Area 51, one of the proposed names for this site was Second Language Acquisition. While the term does accurately describe the scope of the stack, the part that really bothers me is the "Second Language". Questions on this site are not only restricted to a second language. It's perfectly f...

discussion

bilbo_pingouin

@EasterlyIrk not sure anyone has enough rep yet...

Gilles

@EasterlyIrk nobody has enough reputation today

Easterly Irk

@balpha i think does...

Gilles

21:33

SE staff does the reviews during the first few days when nobody else can

Easterly Irk

SOMEBODY GO UPVOTE LOTS OF PEOPLE

HDE 226868

@EasterlyIrk He's SE staff.

Easterly Irk

oh

Sir Cumference

@HDE226868 Python is pretty important for astronomy

Easterly Irk

I knew that, but didn't realize the effects.

fi12

21:34

@HDE226868 the problem here is that we've got this heated debate on whether questions about specific languages are on-topic or not.

Easterly Irk

Yeah.

fi12

@HDE226868 but anyway nice to see some other people from WB as well!

Easterly Irk

I think questions about specific languages aren't, but questions about learning them are.

But that is a fine line.... :(

HDE 226868

@EasterlyIrk Robert Cartaino will likely be doing a lot of the reviewing 'til people get enough rep to do it themselves.

Easterly Irk

okai.

fi12

21:34

@EasterlyIrk yeah, that's what the indiv language websites are for

Easterly Irk

Yeah.

bilbo_pingouin

I would not call it heated debate... sure there are a lot of up/down votes, but the only answer saying essentially that they are out is the most downvoted

Easterly Irk

@fi12 But what about specifically learning them?

I am sorry to say it, but this site may not survive. :(((((

bilbo_pingouin

because of the "debate" ?

HDE 226868

@EasterlyIrk This is peanuts to real problems on Stack Exchange.

Been there, done that.

Easterly Irk

21:36

No. The on-topicness is hard to decide.

@HDE226868 O_O

Sir Cumference

I really think the questions on this site are too broad

That's why it might not survive

Downgoat

It's only been a few hours since our creation, let's not jump to conclusions :P

HDE 226868

It's subjective, yes. But there's Good Subjective, and there's Bad Subjective.

Good Subjective, Bad Subjective

Robert Cartaino on September 29, 2010

Stack Exchange is about questions with objective, factual answers. We've been crystal clear about this for as long as I can remember, even back to the earliest, pre-beta days of Stack Overflow. It's right there in the standard Stack Exchange FAQ:

This site can get to the Good Subjective stage. But we need to work to do so.

^^ I recommend reading that blog post.

bilbo_pingouin

there's a definitive trend of. my question gets closed as opnion-base/too broad, I edit asking for studies about it, and get it reopen. I suppose that will only work for a while.

HDE 226868

For example, "Great subjective questions insist that opinion be backed up with facts and references."

Easterly Irk

21:40

I gtg now, but will check back later today.

bye.

Sir Cumference

@HDE226868 Love that image XD

No Name

yeah, I think the fact that questions remain on topic after being changed to ask about studies is rather faulty

go to skeptics.stackexchange.com if you really want studies lol (although I'm sure that they won't accept those questions)

bilbo_pingouin

anyway, have fun and don't break everything... I'll come back in the morning.

HDE 226868

@NoName Why?

Gilles

@SirCumference that's a pretty common pattern in the very early beta

people want to ask lots of stuff, but they have no pressing problems, so they make up some very general questions

after a while people start coming in with actual questions

No Name

21:46

"Language Learning Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for students, teachers, polyglots, and anyone interested [sic.] the techniques of second-language acquisition".

Sir Cumference

@Gilles Yes, but there's really only so much that you can ask about language learning

No Name

the question should remain on topic both if it has studies or not

Sir Cumference

When you avoid specific languages

No Name

we're not made for studies imo

HDE 226868

@NoName Again, why not?

No Name

21:47

i mean, you can have studies. I'm not against that.

Language Learning Meta

2

Q: Should we allow questions about programming languages?

While they aren't "languages" in the traditional sense, programming languages certainly differ from one another. In some cases, learning programming languages can be like learning spoken languages, and we could offer some techniques to learn programming languages faster. I'm not talking about w...

discussion

Sir Cumference

Oh cool

No Name

Just the fact that the question was changed to include the mention of studies seems a bit fishy.

i'm going in circles here

Gilles

@SirCumference I don't see why we should avoid specific languages

Sir Cumference

@Gilles Because most languages have their own SEs?

Gilles

21:48

@SirCumference 1. most languages DO NOT have their own SEs, and 2. so what?

HDE 226868

@SirCumference Whaaaat? Some of the major ones, yes, but not all.

Sir Cumference

Questions about French belong on FL

HDE 226868

. . . and here, so long as they're on-topic.

Cross-site overlap is fine.

Gilles

@HDE226868 if they're about learning French

most questions on French Language aren't about learning French

HDE 226868

@Gilles Well, yeah.

Sir Cumference

21:49

@HDE226868 Do they?

1

Q: Is there a method to learn which grammatical gender a noun in French has?

In French, some objects are considered male and some female (le/la). Is there a way which can help me understand which grammatical gender to use with which noun?

french

Read the comments

Gilles

I'm voting to leave this question open because language-specific questions belong here (as long as they're about the learning process and not the language itself). — Gilles 1 hour ago

Sir Cumference

4 close votes

HDE 226868

@SirCumference I don't see anything to back those remarks up, besides the fact that time and time again, people seem to think that cross-site overlap is not good.

Gilles

@SirCumference and 3 “leave open” votes

On a related topic, Linguistics allows questions that concern a single language, as long as they're about linguistics

12

Q: Are questions about a single language on topic?

It was suggested at this question that a question about a single language is off-topic, being more appropriate for a Stack Exchange site dedicated to that language. What do people think of this idea?

discussion status-completed scope single-language

why should this place be different?

HDE 226868

Cross-site overlap isn't bad. If we establish that questions about learning specific languages are on-topic - and the meta discussion seems to indicate that so far, that's the consensus - there's no reason for us to move a perfectly fine question elsewhere. — HDE 226868 22 secs ago

Sir Cumference

21:52

10

Q: Are questions about specific languages on topic?

Proposal: Language Learning There are lots of language specific proposals on area 51, does this matter? Can people ask about language specific things on this site?

culture

"If I was in a room with someone A) who was an expert on the Japanese language, but was not necessarily skilled or knowledgeable in language learning (e.g. a professor of Japanese from a Japanese university), and someone B) who was an expert on language learning, wasn't an expert on Japanese, but had experience teaching or learning languages with similar features (e.g. an experienced Cantonese teacher), I'd ask person B first."

No Name

yeah, i'd side with gilles on this one. if we're going to restrict individual languages, we'll get a mess of vague questions with no clear examples and an unhelpful website in general

HDE 226868

@SirCumference Right, and it seems like people think that it's fine for them to be on-topic here.

Gilles

I like this answer:

Sir Cumference

@HDE226868 According to?

Gilles

2

A: When are language-specific questions allowed?

In my mind, if a question is about some aspect of a language which is essentially arbitrary, then it's off topic. Meaning, usage, semantic drift of particular words, etc should all be off topic. If a question is about a system, then it's on topic. Systems could cover phonetics, morphology, synt...

HDE 226868

21:53

@SirCumference That answer.

Gilles

for Linguistics, the distinction is between usage (arbitrary, off-topic) and systems (on-topic)

Sir Cumference

@HDE226868 The answer literally said we should only talk about features of a language, especially those common in other languages

HDE 226868

@SirCumference Yes, but it doesn't say that questions about a learning a specific language should be off-topic.

Sir Cumference

It did not say we should ask about things like this

8

Q: ¿Qué significa "siempre sí" y "siempre no"?

Este fin de semana estaba en un hotel con una amiga esperando a otros amigos para salir juntos. Mi amiga dijo a la recepcionista: -"Estamos esperando unos amigos. ¿Usted puede avisarnos cuando lleguen, por favor?"- Pero nuestros amigos cancelaron, y después mi amiga dijo a la recepcionista: -"S...

definiciones méxico

HDE 226868

Am I missing something here?

@SirCumference I never said we should.

Sir Cumference

21:55

@HDE226868 What are you saying, then?

HDE 226868

@SirCumference I'm saying that questions about learning specific languages should be on-topic, which is what I think we were talking about.

Sir Cumference

Er, that's exactly what the other sites are for

Am I misunderstanding you?

These sites are to learn the language

HDE 226868

@SirCumference (Sigh) Yes. I'm also saying that it's fine for there to be overlap across sites, which is what my comment was about. Think of where Physics and Astronomy overlap.

@SirCumference No, they're not just for that.

Sir Cumference

@HDE226868 All right, fair enough

I guess this site's also in early beta

Gilles

@SirCumference French Language is not about learning French. Sure, questions about learning French are on-topic, but that's not the focus.

Sir Cumference

22:02

No one's 100% certain what's acceptable

Gilles

Most regular answerers on French Language are native French speakers who do not teach French, despite the lack of a French user interface.

@Downgoat Thanks for the edit. I've reversed my vote, because I'd misunderstood your answer.

You still aren't stating whether the examples are supposed to be on-topic or off-topic; I assume off-topic?

Downgoat

@Gilles oh, whoops. I've edited that in...

Downgoat

22:19

What are the requirements for proposing tag wikis? I can't seem to propose one...

Gilles

22:34

@Downgoat the requirement is that there isn't already a pending proposal

Downgoat

Oh, sorry, I meant tag synonyms, not tag wiki :|

Sir Cumference

Now we need someone to delete effectivenss

It's a misspelled tag

Downgoat

hahaha

Sir Cumference

@Downgoat By the way, love your name XD

Gilles

22:52

@SirCumference that'll happen automatically, there's a nightly batch job that removes unused tags (and that's the only way)

Sir Cumference

@Gilles Oh, all right

Gilles

effectiveness is growing

HDE 226868

23:23

I'm seeing a bit of confusion as to what the studies tag is for.

The tag wiki clearly states that it's about studying, but some folks are using it to refer to scientific studies.

Should we make that clearer in the tag wiki/excerpt?

Sir Cumference

@HDE226868 Agreed

It really should be about scientific studies, since we're getting a lot of questions about that

HDE 226868

Meta question time.

Gilles

4

Q: Should we use the [studies] tag?

Considering that the site is about Language Learning, studies is inferred. Should we use the tag at all?

discussion tags

Sir Cumference

Yeah, just saw that

HDE 226868

@Gilles Ah, that would do.

Gilles

23:27

@HDE226868 the tag wiki goes against meta, and there's no established usage pattern yet, so the tag wiki is wrong

HDE 226868

@Gilles Right.

Language Learning Meta

23:44

1

Q: Are questions about history on-topic?

I was going to ask a question about the origin of the notation L1, L2, etc. for designating the order of learning languages. This seems to be a historical question. Do we want this type of question? Why or why not?

discussion scope

Sir Cumference

23:55

I'm seeing a lot of close votes for opinion based questions

This really needs to be addressed

1

Q: Are opinion-based questions acceptable?

Many questions are about how to effectively learn a language. Some of them are voted for closing, since they are too opinion based. Should this site be entirely based on studies, or should a level of experience and opinions be involved? I personally see value in opinion questions, since there ar...

discussion

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