The Language Lab

Hi

Matthew Piziak

Hi

Aren't the commitment questions supposed to be automatically transferred from Area51?

no @MatthewPiziak

is anyone planning on posting the first question soon?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Wow, I've never been in a private beta b4. Much less one that is < 5 minutes old.

5:23 PM

I got a single digit ID :D

aww, I'm only 21

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

=( I'm 27.

Q: Are there any studies which address the effectiveness of studying multiple related languages simultaneously?

4

What studies, if any, address the study of multiple related languages (Spanish & French; Dutch & German, etc) simultaneously? Does this provide a synergy for the student, as many concepts are similar across the languages, or does it provide confusion, as the languages may have too much overlap t...

ninja'd to the first question!

Matthew Piziak

Thanks @Quill

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

lol, that question has 5 votes and 4 views.

5:25 PM

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ seems legit

Q: Are questions about individual languages on-topic?

0

While most language concepts are language independent, some are language specific. Should we allow language specific questions?

discussion

:/ meta isn't working for me, I can't upvote

meta has issues

there were no editor buttons when I went to post

or tag options for that matter

they are also really weird tags on main

we need some feeds in here

5:35 PM

Hngh

Nepal

Can we try and explain close votes, please?

the site scope hasn't been established yet

Sure

Close votes are votes used to close a question. This does not mean:

1. Close vote things you aren't interested in, but are good questions

2. Close vote questions by users you dislike because why not

Do we have to get mods before we can edit our help center?

3. Close vote questions that are following the policies

@Downgoat Most definitely

Not necessarily have to, but it's a thing you should do.

@DeltaEscher not like that

@Downgoat We have to define that site scope on meta before they edit it

5:44 PM

What should we do, exactly then?

Dum dee dum

Editing wiki tags

I think our biggest source of off-topic questions are going to be like the one's I specified here. We should making it very clear that we are about learning languages, not languages in general.

People are downvoting my question that is pretty much that

I'm asking if there are any weird Nepalese grammar parts.

Just like how in Spanish, adjectives come after nouns.

Okay, let's not have poll or list questions please

Hm.

nothing along the lines of "what are the weird language features in X"

5:46 PM

Alrighty.

YviDe

Also, what's "weird"?

Abnormal

Like unique

Such as grammar things that only Nepalese has.

@YviDe Yeah, it's a strange wording

Weird to me means not seen most other places

So it would mean unique

Though I believe I should have specified that

First hour and already -10 rep

justadayinmylife

is meta really borked for other people? I can't vote, or even leave a comment

5:55 PM

This seems like a question unrelated to Language Learning, closer to Languages in general — Quill 36 secs ago

@Downgoat yeah

It seems like the StackExchange js file isn't even loading :/

write a userscript to fix it

brb, rewriting entire StackExchange javascript source

just write a userscript to insert the js file into the header

I do not have the time, I am writing cheddar

6:10 PM

Someone just posted to meta, however, I still can't vote, comment or post.

@wythagoras yeah, all voting and commenting are done through AJAX (JavaScript), and for some reason our JS isn't loading. Someone should post a bug to meta.SE...

@wythagoras whether books, questions or concepts mention language similarity, that doesn't make it about language learning. Math is a concept mentioned in programming, but that doesn't make math questions on-topic on Stack Overflow. — Quill 48 secs ago

it's site specific; post it to the site meta

for the mean time, you can use the mobile app to vote

Hey there @QPaysTaxes, were you in the commitment? I must've missed your name

@Quill language learners isn't showing up in the mobile app for me :(

Do I have the first tag wiki edit? :D

nope.. I don't

Q: How to avoid asking opinion-based questions?

6:33 PM

0

Seemingly, a lot of questions are being closed as opinion-based. How can a user avoid asking a question that's primarily opinion-based?

discussion off-topic

Damkerng T.

Congrats, Language Learning!

3

A: How to avoid asking opinion-based questions?

6:51 PM

0

It's just what the close reason says: Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If your question is going to have answe...

I wasn't asking about what an opinion-based closure means

I was asking for a point of "what terms or concepts are usually opinion-based"

I don't think it's terms and concepts that make something opinion based.

It's the solicitation of opinions that makes something opinion based.

the concept of "is something good" is generally opinion-based

asking for someone's opinions on something is blatantly opinion-based

Do you have an example of a question you think should not be considered opinion based, but was voted that way?

I can only see like 2 question closed as primarily opinion-based

@Quill updated

6:58 PM

@Flimzy I'm not quoting a specific question as wrongly closed, I'm trying to get a common consensus on what is and isn't opinion based

I can't interact with meta... wtf?

I can't vote on posts, I can't even click on my mail icon

yeah... it's a bit broken

@Flimzy yeah, meta's JS is not getting loaded

@Downgoat Oh, cute.

We need an answer on that "Does studying two languages help" question before we can close the others as duplicates

A: Can't vote or follow certain links on meta

7:10 PM

0

I think this is happening for everyone on the desktop site. It seems like the wrong script is being loaded. It's apparently trying to load: http://cdn.sstatic.net/sites/Js/stub.en.js (which is a 404), where instead http://cdn.sstatic.net/Js/stub.en.js (notice the absence of sites/) should be lo...

I would delete my own duplicate post, but I can't :/

I have written an thing so you can manually do things like voting from the console... I'll see if I can get that working

I'm sure they'll fix it soon.

Should questions on language teaching be on topic?

(I would have asked on meta, but I can't)

@wythagoras why can't you ask?

7:20 PM

@Downgoat Wait, asking is possible. It is just voting and commenting that doesn't work.

yeah...

the site is about language learning... teaching is part of that process :)

The site's description is "Beta Q&A site for students, teachers, polyglots, and anyone interested the techniques of second-language acquisition."

Okay, I will post the question I had in mind.

should we have adult learners and child/minor learners tags

Quill: When it's relevant, probably.

7:23 PM

^

Perhaps with an assumption of adult learners, unless child learners are specified?

I don't think child-learners really deserves a tag unless it is a significant part of the question. Tags shouldn't be what the question contains, it should be what it's about.

well, yeah, something like "are there any studies to show that teaching a child a language from a young age is more effective than X" needs the tag

bleh

Congrats to us...

@Quill I can't add another answer due to the JavaScript not wokring

7:47 PM

@Quill on the post meta.languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/17/… I guess those answered as that's the only thing they can do... I'm experiencing the same and it's quite frustrating...

that doesn't make it okay

StackExchange

ArtOfCode has made a change to the feeds posted into this room

well I have to say that it's a pity that at this stage of the site, the meta discussion are very important and a sizeable portion of the users can't participate

StackExchange

ArtOfCode has made a change to the feeds posted into this room

Thanks @ArtOfCode

They can ask questions and post answers, most of them probably don't even need to comment

saying "same here" doesn't help anyone

7:50 PM

One feed for main questions as a slidey ticker thing, one for meta posts as chat messages.

you can't up/down vote... so no, you can't participate

for example: @Vihan's answer to the meta.languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/1/… is not clear... there's no way for me to tell that, except writing another answer, which, as you states is not the way it should be done

I've pinged a CM and a dev about it. They should be onto it.

Thanks, @ArtOfCode

In fact, dev has just responded and is on the case. Which was pretty quick.

meta discussions about whether something is on/off-topic, the main tool for most users isn't "answer" or "comment" it's the votes

7:53 PM

Fixed.

Just over a minute from ping to fix... that's impressive.

yay!

indeed

Now I can waste another 2 hours on here before I sleep! :P

same here

→ 5 messages moved to Trash

8:02 PM

I like Flimzy's answer on the studies tag question

we should try and fine a better term for that

Q: Are methods recommendation on-topic?

@Quill perhaps [research] or [survey]?

StackExchange

0

Whenever someone wants to study a new language on their own, they tend to rely on some support. Be it books, CDs, DVDs, Websites, etc. Are questions of the style What would you recommend to learn Spanish the fastest? A la Software or Hardware recommendations. And if it is on-topic, should ...

discussion on-topic

8:33 PM

aren't those questions: languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/46/… and languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/36/… essentially duplicates?

the problem is the more general one came later and has no answer... so I'm a bit unsure which to vote for duplicates

@bilbo_pingouin No. One is asking for which terminology to use to describe one's proficiency. The other is asking how to test/estimate one's proficiency.

@bilbo_pingouin I'd flag it and see if they can be merged but we have no mods :I

As a student, you'd need the answer to languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/46/…, followed by the answer to languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/36/…

That is to say, I'd want to test my proficiency... (yay, I got a proficiency of X!)

@Flimzy to use the terminology, you need to evaluate your level...

Then I'd want to know how to describe that proficiency in a way that is most internationally recognized.

8:36 PM

it's useless to learn of A1.. C2... if you don't know where you stand

@Downgoat 5 duplicate votes and they get closed as duplicates

@bilbo_pingouin: You don't need to evaluate your level to know which proficiency system to use.

You need to evaluate your proficiency to apply a proficiency system to your skills.

"how can I describe my proficiency..." needs to evaluate it at some point

That's not the question, though.

I debated whether to spell that out in black and white... I decided to trust the site's readers not to jump to ridiculous conclusions.

I should have known better.. .this is SE. :P

@Quill merge =\= close

8:39 PM

> Is there an internationally recognized standard to describe my language proficiency in my target language(s)?

That's the core of the question.

@Downgoat there is no such thing as merge

@Flimzy not the title though... :)

@Quill I'm pretty sure mods (maybe CMs?) can move answers from one question to another

Q: Will going to the language's country improve my skills as a beginner?

-2

As a beginner in Language X, will immersion in that language's country help a beginner learn the language faster/better? Are there any studies that show that visiting the language's country helps to learn a language faster and better? Preferably studies that focus on beginners, but general stud...

studies travel

or am I stupid?

8:40 PM

@bilbo_pingouin: There's a reason questions have bodies, and not just titles.

I made that more on-topic, would appreciate feedback if it still isn't

and titles should reflect the body, not mislead, anyway got more to read :)

@bilbo_pingouin: I believe the title does a good job of describing the question. If you want to suggest an improvement, I'm all ears, though.

@Downgoat they can move answers, but the answers aren't really relevant

Is there any point in effectiveness? It smells very meta to me.

8:42 PM

@Quill As worded now, is the answer not an obvious "yes"?

anyone know if I can embed a youtube video in my answer?

no

@Gilles Seems unneeded to me.

@Downgoat you can link to one, but no, not embed one

Q: Allow embedded HTML5 YouTube video

63

Currently, this site embeds YouTube videos as Flash. (see an example: How to unlock the achievements related to hidden areas in Portal 2?) However, this is not the best solution, as now YouTube also supports HTML5, and some users (like me!) prefer to use HTML5 player instead of Flash. Supposedl...

feature-request status-completed youtube

8:44 PM

@Downgoat You can't, but it's a feature that exists on some SE sites. If you think it would be good to have, make a request on meta and give your answer as an example.

@Downgoat I think you can provide a link only.

it says status-completed?

oh

> All Stack Exchange sites that have either YouTube or SoundCloud embedding enabled now use the respective IFRAME embeds.

not sure which sites those are. As we're a brand new beta, I would guess we're not on that list.

@Gilles sounds very opinion-based to me. Are the others wanting to learn languages... in an ineffective way?

@Flimzy Brand new betas start without any of the optional features. They have to be requested, with examples.

8:45 PM

@Gilles Which is why I was guessing we don't have those features. :) It was a "highly educated" guess :)

Some are no-brainers, like math-heavy sites getting MathJax, or Movies & TV getting Youtube embedding (if it had existed back when Movies started). Some take more time to debate usefuless, like, I would guess, Youtube embedded on LL.

I would probably campaign strongly against youtube embedding on LL... I don't want to be annoyed by it. :P

it's unnecessary here

It wouldn't hurt anyone and it can be useful for embedding videos of people pronouncing certain words

I'll just use a screenshot + link...

gilles, i added more information to the re-acquisition question, care to take a look?

8:54 PM

why was that question: languagelearning.stackexchange.com/questions/10/… left opened?

@bilbo_pingouin Because it hasn't received 5 close votes yet.

many questions ask for a "studies" about this or that. Do we want to have a "meta-tag" to mark those? Or should this be the studies?

Well my fellow polyglots (and polyglots-to-be)... I'm happy to see this site take off, and I look forward to getting to know all better over the coming months.

please forgive me for my naivete, but what's a "meta-tag"?

For now I must sleep. G'day to all.

9:05 PM

good day ^.^

as we say... happy $TZ... (relevant to whatever time zone you're in :))

@NoName tags are supposed to indicate the topics covered by your question... a meta-tag is more about the tone... so in this case the meta-tag would indicate specifically that you are looking for answers backed with some published research...

@NoName meta-tag = tag that's about the way the question is written, rather than what it's about

ah okay