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12:06 AM
I just finished an inductive proof which got a bit hairy and so I'm not sure if I did things correctly. I won't put it in here unless I can bother someone for the trouble of looking thru it with me, but no wrries if not...let me know :)
 
12:25 AM
Weird.
 
@EE18 shave it
 
The hairy ball theorem isn't usually proved inductively.
 
> I'm not sure if I did things correctly.
I think that this sentence just speaks "bad approach"
who is supposed to check if you did things correctly? You are
 
Banach-Tarski + Hairy Ball Theorem = Deez Nuts
 
If you're asking for someone to check your proof, then you lack confidence
thats not bad, but if you're not going to check your own arguments then you won't learn how to do it
and we won't be here when you're doing an exam, say
maybe there's a point I'm missing, but I don't think so
 
12:54 AM
"Proof of the abc-conjecture"
 
1:08 AM
it's wrong
just a guess
 
see the introduction. there's a tale
 
1:46 AM
@JohnZimmerman Joshi is a credible mathematician. Could be correct.
Even if wrong, I'll bet it is wrong in an interesting and/or useful way, and it's not just crankery.
 
its not just crankery. Its interesting crankery
 
2:27 AM
@XanderHenderson LOL!
Well, put it this way, I think it's correct but it feels long for such a simple statement. Anyway, I will hold off and save any goodwill for future questions :)
 
 
1 hour later…
3:36 AM
My 12 year old daughter just made a pun. Hash tag dad joke.
 
3:53 AM
Noncommutative geometry and anabelian geometry are different?!
 
 
5 hours later…
8:40 AM
Is it conventional to identify $S_1 \times S_2$ as a specific subgroup of $S_3$?
 
 
1 hour later…
9:48 AM
I'm desperately trying to get an answer to this easy question about Sobolev spaces: math.stackexchange.com/questions/4847464/… Can anybody help me out? I don't think it is getting any views. :(
 
10:46 AM
@EE18 Feel free to post it.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:51 AM
@Jakobian Jacobian hi. Can you put an answer in my question copying your complete message? Thank you very much.
 
12:18 PM
@XanderHenderson do you know her?
 
 
1 hour later…
1:37 PM
@Sebastiano no
 
Is it possible for S4 to act on itself so that the orbits have length 1,3,4,4,4,4,4 ?
 
@VivaanDaga what does that mean
$S_4$ is a group. How does a group act on another group?
Are you assuming those are group homomorphisms?
 
act on itself
it can act on itself
yes a group action is a homorphsim
 
1:57 PM
@VivaanDaga a group can act on itself by translations but those aren't group homomorphisms
So its not clear at all when you say that
Where is this problem from
 
A group can act on itself in many ways, by conjugation, left multiplicaton etc. The question is does there exist an action with those orbit lengths
@Jakobian
For example conjugation has orbit lengths 1,3,6,6,8 in this case.
 
?????
 
what?
 
I know group theory
 
this has nothing to do with homomorhphisms except that an action itslef is a homomorphism from a group G to Sym(G)
@Jakobian i dont know what your confusion is with the Q.
 
2:04 PM
I was asking if $G$ acts on $G$ so that all the maps $g\cdot$ are group homomorphisms
 
Then why say it acts on itself if you just allow arbitrary ones. Again, where is this question from
 
i created it. wdym allow arbitrary ones? can you give an example of such an action
 
You give me some set of orbits and an arbitrary group $S_4$. Why would I care about this question?
Its not interesting to me
 
@Jakobian if the answer to this Q is positive then we would know there exist actions that are not conjugation that preserve the center of the group.
in other words actions whose set of fixed points is the center
which is why it is interesting to me @Jakobian
 
2:30 PM
@onepotatotwopotato I cannot say for sure but this ought to be true
@onepotatotwopotato Oh interesting, I don't know the conjecture -- what does it say?
 
@LuckyChouhan not personally, no. But I know some of their work. It very peripherally touches on things I care about.
 
@BalarkaSen it's basically another parametrization of deformation space of quasifuchsian manifolds using bending laminations on two boundaries of its convex core instead of conformal structure at infinity (Bers' simultaneous uniformization in this case), originally conjectured by Thurston.
So essentially, $QF(S)\to\mathcal{ML}(S)\times\mathcal{ML}(S)$. Its image is already known by Bonahon. What's unknown is the injectivity (the main theorem of that paper).
 
What is a bending lamination?
 
It uses something I'm not quite familiar with, but I know some differential geometer I can ask so maybe I would read the paper with him in the near future.
 
@BalarkaSen have you any ideas for my question above?
 
2:39 PM
@VivaanDaga No, but "ask, don't ask to ask"
 
@BalarkaSen Bending lamination is basically a measured lamination on a surface. If you see the boundary of the convex core, because it's basically a convex hull of the limit set, it's topologically a surface but "bent" along some geodesics (it's called pleated surface). Thurston proved in his note that it's actually a geodesic lamination (Thurston called pleated surface a uncrumpled surface)
 
If someone has a response they will respond
@onepotatotwopotato Convex core of which manifold though?
A hyperbolic $S \times \Bbb R$?
 
convex core of a quasifuchsian manifold
 
I understand what a quasi-fuchsian subsurface of a hyperbolic manifold is. I don't know what a quasi-fuchsian manifold is
 
I think it's just the same. A surface group whose representative in PSL_2C is quasi-fuchsian
 
2:44 PM
So it's a surface $S$ together with a quasi-fuchsian representation $\rho : \pi_1(S) \to PSL_2(\Bbb C)$?
 
btw, I recently learned that if $S$ is an incompressible surface in a closed hyperbolic 3-manifold, then either $S$ is quasi-fuchsian or virtual fiber(!!)
 
Yes, that's true
It's believable
So what is a convex core of a quasi-fuchsian surface $(S, \rho : \pi_1(S) \to PSL_2(\Bbb C))$?
 
just as usual. Convex hull of the limit set of the image group and take the quotient
 
My guess is given a quasifuchsian rep $\rho : \pi_1(S) \to PSL_2(\Bbb C)$ there is a way to make a hyperbolic structure on $S \times \Bbb R$, namely take $\Bbb H^3/\mathrm{im}(\rho)$. Then this hyperbolic 3-manifold has a convex core
 
@BalarkaSen why it's believable? Any intuition?
 
2:49 PM
Hyperbolic structures on $S \times \Bbb R$ are in 1-1 correspondence with quasi-fuchsian reps of $S$, I believe
 
Hmm only for geometrically finite stuff isn't it?
 
oh yeah I am thinking compact surface $S$ I suppose
But in this special case I think I understand: "flow backwards" along geodesics escaping to infinity in $S \times \Bbb R$ to deformation retract to a 2-skeleton in $S \times \Bbb R$. your claim is (or Thurston's theorem is) this is a topologically embedded subsurface homeomorphic to $S$, bent along some lamination
 
Yes, even $S$ is just a closed one, I can consider a cyclic covering of a hyperbolic mapping tori but it's geometrically infinite
 
And this bending lamination contrasts the ending laminations on the two ends of $S \times \Bbb R$, which parametrizes the space of hyperbolic structures on $S \times \Bbb R$ as well (by Thurston's work)
@onepotatotwopotato Yeah that's the kind of example I have in mind
What is a non-geometrically finite hyperbolic structure on $S \times \Bbb R$ for $S$ closed?
 
@VivaanDaga Every element of $S_4$ induces an inner automorphism of $S_4$, call it $\phi$. Then we have an action $g\cdot x = \varphi(g) x \varphi(g)^{-1}$ of $S_4$ on the set $S_4$. This action has the property that $g\cdot x = x$ for all $g$ iff $x$ is in the center i.e. $x = e$. If two automorphisms $\varphi_1, \varphi_2$ determine the same action, then $\varphi_1(g)^{-1}\varphi_2(g) x = x\varphi_1(g)^{-1}\varphi_2(g)$ so $\varphi_1(g) = \varphi_2(g)$ i.e. $\varphi_1 = \varphi_2$.
 
2:53 PM
Well in that case, convex core is just a whole manifold. I'm considering only convex cocompact so the boundary is the pleated surface.
@BalarkaSen Yeah but that's not the case the conjecture is considering. Only convex cocompact case.
 
So every element of $S_4$ determines a distinct action on the set $S_4$ with the property that the set of fixed points is its center. In particular we can pick one that is neither $g\cdot x = gxg^{-1}$ nor $g\cdot x = g^{-1}xg$
 
I don't think I understand enough terminology. What is the "convex co-compact case"?
Sorry for not following
 
It's just a hyperbolic 3 manifold whose convex core is compact.
 
D S
Do you guys know how can I translate a German paper into English? Google translate doesn't work that good, and I often have to switch back and forth to understand things.
 
But how is convex core of $S \times \Bbb R$ given by infinite cyclic covering of a mapping torus "the entire manifold"? The convex core has to be some topologically embedded copy of $S$ in $S \times \Bbb R$
It is not $S \times \{0\}$ because that is not quasi-convex (it's a virtual fiber!)
It has to be $S \times \{0\}$ bent along certain lamination
 
2:59 PM
That's exactly for Fuchsian manifold
 
You agree though that this example is convex co-compact, or no?
Maybe my understand of the core is lacking.
 
@Jakobian what if we add the condition that the action is not of the form \phi(g) x\phi(g^{-1})$ where $\phi$ is an automorphism. Cause such an example is not in the spirit of the Q.
 
it depends on the context. some people exclude fuchsian case.
 
I see
 
Well for fuchsian case, isn't $S\times\{0\}$ embedded in a totally geodesic way?
 
3:05 PM
But the mapping torus example is not fuchsian
The fiber of a mapping torus is not fuchsian
its a virtual fiber.
It's horribly distorted
 
I'm not interested in answering this question any further
 
it's not even quasi-fuchsian, so maybe this example doesn't apply at all
 
@BalarkaSen well for this, if I remember correctly, the paper of Cannon and Thurston's group invariant peano curve(?) is a reference
 
OK so I think I am beginning to follow
 
3:08 PM
yeah, that's not an object the paper is considering.
 
Hyperbolic structures on $S \times \Bbb R$ come in three flavors. Where the representation in $PSL_2(\Bbb C)$ is fuchsian, where it's quasi-fuchsian, or where its a virtual fiber
In the fuchsian case $S \times 0$ is core
In the virtual fiber case, the entire $S \times \Bbb R$ is core. the information is captured by ending lamination
In the quasi-fuchsian case, there's a bent copy of $S$ inside which is the core. the bending lamination is the information
is this correct?
 
@Jakobian why isn’t it interesting? I could not accept your example because it was essentially conjugation
 
@BalarkaSen correct but for QF case, two copies usually, one up and one down
 
Ah OK, so the core is $S \times [-a, a]$ or something, where the top and bottom are bent
Thanks, this was helpful! Thanks for the patience
 
no worries! anyway if you're interested in, try reading it! seems quite advanced to me.
 
3:13 PM
if it's advanced for you it's definitely going to be advanced for me
i only began to get interested in hyperbolic geometry
the teichmuller theoretic stuff flies above my head
 
I think the paper is more differential geometric stuff less hyperbolicity.
 
oh, interesting
 
well I know you know much more deeply than I do in topology (judging by your activities). There's more change I ask something to you!
anyway I should go and take probability class lol
 
im more used to topology, yeah. geometry of three manifolds is something im just barely learning
enjoy!
 
I started using $S^1$ to describe a circle 2-3 years ago. Before that I was just saying "circle". I think that is good progress fwiw
for me it's all about making epsilon gains
 
3:41 PM
Please may I have some feedback?
in Helpful Commentary, 1 min ago, by Shaun
This answer of mine got a downvote just now. Any advice?
 
How useful to the asker do you think your answer is, considering they are not asking for a derivation but for guidance on what do assume to build a derivation? What if we ask the same question about the accepted and well upvoted answer?
 
The link in the beginning explains the situation.
 
So the useful part of the answer is the link, and link only answers are discouraged on MSE. An answer summarizing the contents of the link (which the accepted answer essentially is) would have been better
 
Okay. Thank you.
 
4:00 PM
@VivaanDaga its not interesting because there is no reason for why its interesting
You changing your question in the middle just shows your attitude
Not something I want to engage in
 
nice new profile foto jakobian
 
yep
 
Hey can anyone give me feedback on my youtube video
let me track the link donw
 
@JohnZimmerman private
 
Says unavailable
 
4:14 PM
you need to change to share only
 
okay
i wil
 
@AlessandroCodenotti I wouldn't worry about it, Shaun posts this whenever he receives downvotes, I don't think he really expects feedback
 
that link should work now
 
yeah it does
I'm not really knowledgeable about the Riemann zeta and its relation to differential topology so I'm not sure what the video is about. But this seemed to be the gist of it
maybe @BalarkaSen does
but yeah the feedback would probably be that you don't explain what you're talking about clearly enough. For example that its about the Riemann zeta function
 
yeah you got the gist
 
4:26 PM
another thing is that this shape is not really, I mean, there is no real way for someone to tell what the shape is in relation to the Riemann zeta
 
If you keep the notebook on a table and hold the camera from above then it will be easier for you to explain things as then you can see which part you are pointing at.
 
oh thanks :)
thanks for the feedback.
I will use it
@Jakobian on "R^2" in the video, we have $$\Delta_t(x)=\lim_{r\to \infty} \frac{1}{r} \sum_{n=1}^\infty e^{\frac{t\log n}{\log r \log x}}$$ which is a controlled deformation of the riemann zeta function composed with -1/lnx
then direct analytic continuation we can obtain the meromorphic zeta function on the entire complex plane aside from a simple pole and a branch from the logarithm
$\Delta_t(x)$ uniformly converges to $\Delta_t(x)=e^{\frac{t}{\log x}} $ so that one can use that as the base graph and construct a section over it with a prescribed topology. Then you have to deform the real analytic fibers on the lifted "surface" into holomorphic ones. since the $\Delta_t(x)$ is a solution to the well posed diffusion equation running forward in time $\frac{\partial^2}{\partial t^2}\Delta_t(x)=-x\frac{\partial}{\partial x}\Delta_t(x) $ it's possible to construct an anolougs pde
 
4:46 PM
well I'm not really interested in the whole Riemann zeta stuff to be able to glance over what you said and confirm it. But I see
 
It's okay
 
I don't know anything, but see Terry Tao's talk "Vaporizing and freezing the Riemann zeta function".
 
I was thinking more in terms of people who might watch the video and be confused about it
 
Yeah I saw that it was good Balarka
Well I was rushed in that video. I'll try to sit down and really be pendantic
and more professional
 
sure. Still, I'm not good audience for it
 
4:48 PM
yeah it's okay
I'll make them for myself in the future
 
its definitely good to be more precise. Not necessarily more formal, just precise
 
5:20 PM
@Jakobian When is it not okay to left/right multiply when proving something about a group?
 
@Obliv ?
 
for example, i was proving that given a group $G$ with identity $e$, $f:G\to G$ defined by $f(a) = a^{-1}$ is a bijection
i did the contrapositive so given $a_1,a_2 \in G$ and $f(a_1)\neq f(a_2)$
 
no just compose $f$ with itself
 
it means $a_1^{-1}\neq a_2^{-1}$ left multiplying by $a$ we have $e = a_1a_2^{-1}$ then right multiply by $a_2$ to get $a_2 \neq a_1$
@jakobian is it ok to just say that $f\circ f = ID$
 
yes
 
5:23 PM
idk how to denote the identity map
 
$\text{Id}_G$ for example
different people do it differently
 
kk but I do remember I did something wrong some time ago and you corrected me. if a group isn't abelian you can't left/right multiply or something?
let me see if I can find it
 
I never said that and if I did, then you certainly are missing context in which I did say that
and why would that be important anyway
 
Idk I can't find it, I just know I made a mistake I wish I could find it again but oh well if I make the same mistake I'll remember it
maybe it was about group actions
 
why is this important at all
just follow what makes sense
if I corrected you somewhere then its not like I gave you some knowledge worth remembering
it just means I corrected you
this could be not relevant at all
it most likely isn't
 
5:43 PM
How do I find the order of a permutation in a symmetric group? Do I have to write down a bunch of compositions until I get to the identity?
Or is there a way to do it in your head..
In cycle notation I feel like the number of elements that get permuted is the order
 
5:59 PM
isn't something like the lcm of the lengths of the cycles?
 
6:31 PM
@Obliv decompose into cycles
@SineoftheTime yep
 
6:57 PM
trying to think of a pithy way to say: "the only reason i spotted your mistake as fast as I did is because I've made that exact mistake many times myself"
 
7:21 PM
How can I show that if $k+m=n$, then $S_k \times S_m$ is a subgroup of $S_n$?
And then I am asked to deduce that $\frac{n!}{k! (n-k)!}$ is an integer which doesn't seem intimidating.
 
@oneofvalts Its very simple, for a pair of functions $(\sigma, \tau)\in S_k\times S_m$ consider the map $f(i) = \sigma(i)$ for $1\leq i\leq k$ and $f(k+i) = k+\tau(i)$ for $1\leq i\leq m$
 
@oneofvalts the latter is an easy consequence of the former if you use the right theorem
2
 
in other words, $\tau$ induces a permutation on $\{k+1, ..., n\}$ while $\sigma$ is a permuation on $\{1, ..., k\}$
here I used the bijection $g:\{1, ..., m\}\to \{k+1, ..., n\}$ given by $g(i) = k+i$
 
i like the intuition of string diagrams for this
tho i'm always frustrated by how i can't find a good reference on string diagrams
 
Ah I see. Although actually, it's technically not a subgroup, right? It's isomorphic to a subgroup of $S_n$.
 
7:33 PM
that's a string diagram
and the intution is that you can view that as a permutation on 3 objects
but you can also "split" the permutation into two, one acting on 2 objects and the other on the third
 
Ah, it's @Semiclassical. Maybe I am telling you this the second time, but anyways: Here I asked my first question about seven years ago. I was in high school. I think it was a question about the definition of derivative. You were very helpful and patient. Now I am in my third year in university. Thank you :)
 
ah cool
glad to hear you're doing well
 
@Semiclassical Ah, this is cool!
 
yeah, string diagrams are great
 
@oneofvalts well yes its just isomorphic, but the isomorphism is pretty canonical
 
7:37 PM
@Jakobian And this is a nice write up of the above.
 
they're especially nice for decomposing the permutation into transpositions
 
sometimes we say "X is a sub-something of Y" when X is merely isomorphic to a sub-something of Y
 
the decomposition into transpositions is then just "you can always draw a string diagram so that only two wires cross at a time"
 
so that we can find a "copy" of X in Y
there is many copies of $S_k\times S_m$ in $S_n$ as you saw (first choice we made was splitting of the set $\{1, ..., n\}$ and second is in the choice of our bijections), but the point is that one such copy can be obtained
and then once you get one copy, you get that $\frac{n!}{k!m!}$ is an integer
I suppose, bonus exercise: Calculate the amount of copies of $S_k\times S_m$ in $S_n$ using this method
 
would that be a natural isomorphism? i'm terrible with the language of category theory
@robjohn are you the mean egg right now
 
7:53 PM
@Jakobian I should start getting used to this.
 
sure, but that was a good question
 
8:34 PM
@Semiclassical Lagrange's Theorem, gotcha!
 
9:02 PM
Woah, Fraleigh's Abstract Algebra launched the 8th edition, and it's so different from the 7th edition I currently have.
The 7th chapter is commutative algebra? Nice!
 
9:13 PM
:O
 
9:45 PM
Hey! did I say you guys are quick!
 
10:01 PM
That's what she said.
 
10:15 PM
-2 C
 
Hi, I'm reading about distribution theory and I'm not understanding this: the notion of the (standard) convergence in $\mathcal D$ (space of test functions) is not compatible with any norm, but we can define seminorms.
 
and the heater doesn't even work
 
how to prove that it's not compatible with any norm?
 
@SineoftheTime we can define seminorms in any locally convex space
 
Or can someone send a link about this
 
10:19 PM
sine, this is actually somewhat trickier than just ignoring remarks like that and using those spaces
note that there is some variation in how people define 'test functions' and the relevant seminorms, but those questions/answers are wrestling with exactly that issue
 
@SineoftheTime $\mathcal{D}$ is a complete vector space, if it were metrizable then by exhausting your base set by compact sets $K_n$, we'd have that $\mathcal{D}$ is a union of closed sets $\mathcal{D}_{K_n}$ of functions with support contained in $K_n$
But $\mathcal{D}_{K_n}$ have empty interior so that would contradict Baire category theorem
 
ok thank you both, it's above my pay grade:(
 
i would mentally file this under "there is an explanation for why any analysis of convergence issues is slightly more complicated than norm convergence"
but the explanation itself is maybe not all that illuminating until you are steeped in the subject matter
 
See proposition 3.80v) in Banach Space Theory by Fabian et al.
 
10:23 PM
the meta-meta-mathematical explanation for why there isn't a norm that gives you the notion of convergence that you want is that if there were, every textbook would use it, instead of doing what they actually do
 
by the way by complete vector space I mean complete with respect to the induced uniformity
coming from the vector space structure
$x-y\in U$ where $U$ is a nbd of $0$
so it means that Cauchy nets are convergent
where Cauchy means for all $U$ that are nbd of $0$ there is $m$ with $x_\alpha-x_\beta\in U$ for $m\leq \alpha, \beta$
and its an exercise that a metrizable vector space is complete iff its completely metrizable
 
sort of an economists argument. it must be efficient because it's what everybody does, textbook writers have every incentive to arbitrage away any inefficiencies arising from the use of seminorms
for more on my unbeatable stock tips, buy my book, The Lesliecoin Mindset
 
when I read what I'm saying it really does like wizardry
 
any sufficiently advanced application of the baire category theorem is indistinguishable from magic
 
I just don't imagine most people hear "Cauchy" and "net" in a common sentence very often
and, in application to analysis too
it sounds like something from an obscure article
 
10:46 PM
@Semiclassical Yeah, I tell people to hunt for me on Easter, and then run away.
 
11:11 PM
@Semiclassical robjohn is not mean.
He's at least three sigma.
 
11:59 PM
I'm stuck at something basic. Suppose $f$ is continuous, strictly increasing and say, surjective (these are assumptions made in a video I was watching about image measures). I'm trying to show $f^{-1}([a,b))=[f^{-1}(a),f^{-1}(b))$. Here's my attempt.
If $x\in f^{-1}([a,b))$, then $f(x)\in[a,b)$. Since $f$ is strictly increasing, so is the inverse, and from this it follows that $a\leq f(x)< b\iff f^{-1}(a)\leq x< f^{-1}(b)$, which shows $\subset$.
 

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