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12:01 AM
They should really teach category theory and HomAlg in junior high. Now I'm 37 and have to learn this shit...
 
I took an idea from econ and treated it topologically and it took me to an unsolved problem in mathematics which I will definitely need some homology to solve
 
Nice, then let's start studying together
 
I need to show that basically the space has no holes
 
Nice. That sounds homological
 
yeah
 
12:03 AM
Well, do you know what a vector space is?
 
Yeah it's a space equipped with the usual axioms of a vector space
 
We say that $V$ is a vector space over the field $k$ if you can scalar multiply vectors in $V$ by $\alpha \in k$. A module is the same thing except generalized. They've replaced field with ring. A ring is a field without the multiplicative inverse requirement. In other words every vector space is actually an example of a module. So any thing you prove in module theory applies to vector spaces.
When you delete an axiom, in this case the axiom(s) of invertibility of elements of $k$, you end up generalizing a theory. What can you prove without inverses, etc.
If you delete any more axioms from ring axioms, you end up with more exotic structures that are hard to find information about.
e.g. Semiring
@geocalc33 does that make sense?
Sometimes there are math questions that require a ring over a field. E.g. diophantine equation solving. However they sometimes map over to associated fields like the field of fractions of $\Bbb{Z}$ is just $\Bbb{Q}$, and answer all they can there as well.
 
@DLeftAdjointtoU Yeah
 
Okay, so we have a category then of (left / right) $R$-modules.
We also have the category of just $R$-modules which are both left and right scalar multipliable.
@geocalc33 quickly peruse this Q&A: math.stackexchange.com/questions/144518/…
The category of $\Bbb{Z}$-modules is actually consider equal to the category $\textbf{AbGrb}$.
Because every abelian group has repeated addition or $n z = z + z + \dots z (n \text{ times })$.
That's exactly the same thing as saying that $A \in \textbf{AbGrp}$ is closed under scalar multiplication by $n \in \Bbb{Z}$ above so defined.
Thus every abelian group $A$ is indeed a $\Bbb{Z}$-module. The converse: every $\Bbb{Z}$-module is an abelian group. Please prove that for me.
A $\Bbb{Z}$-module is like vector space over $\Bbb{Z}$ essentially, but your scalars are integers
Need a hint?
You can just say every $\Bbb{Z}$-module is an abelian group by definition (given its axioms).
Since they axioms of a $\Bbb{Z}$-module subsume those of abelian group.
as in the finite set of the module axioms contains the finite set of the abelian group axioms
If they don't match exactly, they are at least equivalent to some subset
Okay, that covers that. It's really just a remark
@geocalc33 Tell me some property about vector spaces.
And I'll try to google and see if it's also true for more general modules
 
12:30 AM
@DLeftAdjointtoU Vector spaces. So much you could say about them! Where do I begin?
 
 
2 hours later…
2:10 AM
where indeed
 
@geocalc33
The first step is to google around for a copy of Weibel or purchase it
Not the shitty print kind
I'll have to inspect your copy to make sure it matches mine
Then the first page talks about vector spaces and measuring the defect that $f(x) = 0$ but there exists no $y$ such that $g(y) = x$. I.e. $X \xrightarrow{g} Y \xrightarrow{f} Z$ forms what's called a sequence or chain complex of length $2$ or $3$ depending upon how you count length
And some times $f(g) = 0$ the 0 $R$-module map, which means by definition that $\text{im g} \subset \ker f$.
Those two things on either side of $\subset$ are vector spaces themselves!
So to measur this defect in exactness we'll call it, you simply take $\ker f / \text{im g}$ a quotient of the $R$-module $\ker f$.
That quotient is called Homology, but usually you deal with SES (short exact sequences of a certain form) or infinitely long sequences.
When they're infinitely long you get what's called chain complex. The finite length ones are sometimes simulateable in an infinite length one by filling in the rest of the module entries with $0$ the $0$ module.
 
2:32 AM
@geocalc33 there was a proof in the book (Weibel). I didn't understand their method of proof. I made an alternative proof that I've never seen anywhere. Not of the whole theorem, but just one small part. It involves pasting commuting diagrams along a common subdiagram (last step). Then everything commutes. It's for showing existence of a lift of a first map between two projective resolutions.
Into a chain map. So everything in Homological Algebra recurses.
We have Chain complexes, but also maps between those, and even chain complexes OF chain complexes!!!!!
A family of maps between two chain complexes such that all the squares formed commute is called a chain map. I will teach you this stuff to get you up to speed.
 
@leslietownes At the end, of course.
 
i prefer to begin at the beguine
 
 
1 hour later…
3:51 AM
@leslietownes Letโ€™s keep the bedouins out of this.
 
4:13 AM
 
4:26 AM
Is this inequality $\cosx\leq x$ for all $x\geq 0$ true ? (as is incase of sines $\sin x\leq x,\forall x\geq 0$ )
 
@robjohn That goes without saying.
@Franklin Aw come on!
 
I think the cos inequality analogous to the sine one, is valid as well ?๐Ÿค”
 
@Franklin no, for $x$ sufficiently close to $0$
$\cos(0)=1$
$\cos(0.1)\approx0.995\gt0.1$
 
@robjohn Ok, that's a loophole, indeed!
Actually, I stumbled upon this : If 0 < x < ฯ€/2, then
(a) cos(cosx) > sinx
(b) sin(sinx) > sinx
(c)sin(cosx) > cosx
(d) cos(sinx) > sinx
@robjohn You might want to look at it...
I know, options B and C are invalid, since $\sin x\leq x,\forall x\geq 0$ is true
But what about A and D ?
 
I vote theyโ€™re all wrong.
 
4:37 AM
(a) is false for $x=\frac\pi2$
 
 
1 hour later…
6:01 AM
13
Q: Evaluating $\int_0^\infty \frac{dx}{1+x^4}$.

Tamim AddariCan anyone give me a hint to evaluate this integral? $$\int_0^\infty \frac{dx}{1+x^4}$$ I know it will involve the gamma function, but how?

@robjohn is it possible to do it using complex analysis?
 
@robjohn but $x\in (0,\frac\pi2)$
@TedShifrin how do you vote the incorrectness of $A$ and $D$ without a calculator ?
@TedShifrin I mean a reason to find or reason out their incorrectness in an mcq exam where calculators are not allowed?๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
 
@JackRod see the second answer here: math.stackexchange.com/questions/992436/…
or if you want it from robjohn, math.stackexchange.com/questions/110457/… :)
franklin: (d) can be seen to be false because of what happens as x goes to pi/2 (left hand side approaches cos(1), which is strictly less than 1, while the right hand side approaches 1). if you trust that the problem has a solution, then it must be (a)
 
6:16 AM
I was forced into closing my question. sob!
 
@leslietownes but the statement you made "(d) can be seen to be false because of what happens as x goes to pi/2 (left hand side approaches cos(1), which is strictly less than 1, while the right hand side approaches 1)."- this is just a risky guess without a caculator isn't it? We know, those things approaches to them, as you mention, but we really don't know how fast they approach to a value?
I think this a question of the type " do the guess and see how lucky you are( intuitions might not lead you that far you have to take risks) "-what do you think ?
 
uh, i'm very much using that cos(1) is strictly smaller than 1 up above, but other than that, no, it's not a guess. see if you can prove: "if f(x) and g(x) are continuous on [a,b] and f(x) > g(x) holds for all x in (a,b), then f(b) >= g(b)"
the fact that cos(1) < 1 thus tells us that the inequality (d) cannot be true
 
@leslietownes Hmm...but "if f(x) and g(x) are continuous on [a,b] and f(x) > g(x) holds for all x in (a,b), then f(b) >= g(b)" is true, then the reasoning you stated is completely valid in all sense!
 
that sort of analysis would be inconclusive if the values of the LHS and RHS happened to be equal at the endpoint pi/2, but at least in (d), they're not
 
6:32 AM
@leslietownes Again, a nitpick seems to be there in my case: If we use, the definition of continuity and limits as: the Left hand limit at a point must be equal to Right hand limit at that point and those limits should be vary well, equal to the value of f(at that point itself) . But, then, this implies that f can never ever be continuous at the end point of a closed interval unless defined or stated otherwise?
 
what are you talking about? cos(sin(x)) and sin(x) are continuous everywhere
i could imagine some hypothetical problem where maybe you don't know the LHS and RHS are continuous, or the continuity is hard to analyze, but that's not this problem
you often seem to want to generalize far beyond whatever is in front of you, as if it will make what is in front of you simpler
it won't
 
@leslietownes that's more than correct...
 
i agree that a different and more complicated problem would be different and more complicated
 
@leslietownes yes that's an annoying and a bad habit of mine ....
I admit๐Ÿ˜…
 
it is a common condition :)
 
6:38 AM
@leslietownes "if f(x) and g(x) are continuous on [a,b] and f(x) > g(x) holds for all x in (a,b), then f(b) >= g(b)" -is indeed an useful assetion/lemma as one might call it. I will keep this in mind! This conclusion, might be helpful in my case
@leslietownes But one thing, how did you come up with it? Was that a standard fact ? Or was it an intution then you verifies it to be true?
If the later is the case, then that sort of intuition is completely lacking in me at this stage
 
Intuition is a funny thing, it really just refers to what you already know.
 
(In my opinion I would never think it like that in an mcq test)
@Ajay but hits you unknowingly, that's the funny thing!
 
the intuition is that the graphs of continuous functions don't abruptly swap places with one another. if the graph of f(x) is strictly above the graph of g(x) for all x right up to b, the graph of f(x) isn't going to somehow jump under the graph of g(x) right at x = b. the graph of f(x) couldn't do that without crossing the graph of g(x) at some point before b, which it can't, by the assumption that it doesn't
i dunno
it's great to look at consequences of continuity, such as the intermediate value theorem, as things that need to be proved, but don't get so wrapped up in abstractions that those consequences seem counterintuitive
 
How to find determinants related question in approach 0 search?
 
6:51 AM
@leslietownes so that lemma i.e "if f(x) and g(x) are continuous on [a,b] and f(x) > g(x) holds for all x in (a,b), then f(b) >= g(b)" is a standard known fact, right ?
 
i think you are focusing way too much on formalism and/or the status of a formalized statement as a "standard known fact"
i think that someone familiar with limits and continuity should be able to convince themselves that that's true, whether or not they have a proof in mind
but i wouldn't assign any particular importance to that specific set of hypotheses
this is like something from a while ago (maybe even your question), that if a sequence of nonnegative numbers has a limit, that limit is also nonnegative
i see that statement and this one as manifestations of the same thing
 
@leslietownes you wont believe this maybe: but after reading this I tried up to picture some continuous graphs of cos and sin intutively and now, it seems, crystal clear that this is indeed true!
@leslietownes this makes more sense to me, now :)
@leslietownes It's true that I really dont have a proof in mind, but I can see that this might be true. Or rather seems kinda obvious about the truth of the assertion you made
I think the only need that requires in me : is to focus more and use mathematical intuitions deeply and carefully while solving problems of these sort.
I feel that's the only possible solution...
Consider the function f(x) = max{x, 1/x}/min{x, 1/x} when x
โ‰  0; f(x) = 1 when x = 0. Then
(a) lim f(x) = 0 as x -> 0+
(b) lim f(x) = 0 as x -> 0-
(c)f(x) is continuous for all x โ‰  0
(d) f is differentiable for all x โ‰  0.
Can anyone please validate this: I found that options B,C,D are correct.
Are my conclusions correct ?
 
7:14 AM
@Franklin okay itโ€™s true in that range
And itโ€™s true for anything but $\frac\pi2$ mod $2\pi$
 
7:51 AM
Relation between representable functor and universal properties...
 
8:11 AM
Page no. 50,1st paragraph, Hatcher's: Why is $\gamma_a \phi_a \bar \gamma_a$ nullhomotopic after attachment of 2 cells?
 
8:30 AM
well because after we attach a $2$-cell, a loop $\phi_a$ can be contracted to a base point
 
8:48 AM
@onepotatotwopotato yes, that is true. But why is the conjugation nullhomotopic?
 
because $\gamma_a\overline{\gamma}_a$ is nulhomotopic
 
$\gamma_a$ is not a loop.
 
But with $\overline{\gamma}_a$, it's a loop
 
Yes. But we are not given that X is simply connected.
If it were simply connected then every loop at x_0 shall be homotopic to a constant loop at x_0.
 
Why do you need simply connectivity?
 
8:52 AM
Because if simple connected, then $\pi_1=0$ so it has only one class - class of constant loop.
 
You don't need simply connectivity
 
But then why is the loop nullhomotopic?
It may be that something else is happening here. But I don't understand what's going on.
That is, the loop $\gamma_a\bar\gamma_a$.
It is given that X is path connected so let's assume that X is NOT simply connected.
What a very nice question! +1
4
Q: Understanding Hatcher's Proposition 1.26

one potato two potatoFirst, let me state the proposition in Hatcher's textbook (a) If $Y$ is obtained from $X$ by attaching 2-cells as described above, then the inclusion $X\hookrightarrow Y$ induces a surjection $\pi_1(X,x_0)\to\pi_1(Y,x_0)$ whose kernel is $N$. Thus $\pi_1(Y)\simeq\pi_1(X)/N$ Note that $N$ is a n...

But I still don't understand why the loop is nullhomotopic.
Unrelated, does one need a language to think?
I think no. I think one can think even if they know n=0 languages.
 
9:41 AM
On page no. 51,last paragraph, Hatcher:can anyone please explain to me why $N_1$ is $RP^2$
 
9:59 AM
The quotient of $\Bbb D^2$ with antipodal points of $\partial\Bbb D^2$ identified.
 
How is the concatenation $a^2$ doing that?
How is the loop identifying points? @onepotatotwopotato
 
10:15 AM
You can think of it as a loop or a rule of identification.
 
Can I think of $a^3$ also as doing the same thing?
 
No. Then you're identifying three arcs of $S^1$.
 
In this answer, why is the author multiplying $(2n+1)$ with $2^{-n}$. Isn't it enough with just $2^{-n}$?
 
You're basically attaching $2$-cell on $S^1$ by $\partial D^2\cong S^1\to S^1,z\mapsto z^2$.
 
In other words, why is the author constructing the sum $\sum_n (2n+1)2^{-n}$ and not just $\sum_n 2^{-n}$?
 
10:23 AM
Can anyone please help me with this : math.stackexchange.com/questions/4671818/… ?
 
11:09 AM
Never mind my question. I have another. Consider the function $f(x)=\frac{\sqrt{x}}{\ln{x}}$. Apparently it is increasing for $x>e^2$ according to this comment. How can you conclude that?
 
11:44 AM
Never mind my question again. It's just a simple matter of studying the derivative of the function.
 
is it possible to solve it using contour integration if modulus of z=3 is contour any hint?
 
12:06 PM
@Koro $\varphi_a$ becomes nullhomotopic after the disk is attached, so $\gamma_a\varphi_a\overline{\gamma}_a$ is homotopic to $\gamma_a\overline{\gamma_a$ and this is nullhomotopic (even though $\gamma_a$ is not a loop, this is the exact same argument as showing that $\pi_1$ has inverses)
 
so we can say that $\gamma \bar \gamma_a$ has an inverse. Fine. But why is it nullhomotpic?
 
no, that's not what I mean. I'm saying you prove that $\gamma_a\overline{\gamma}_a$ is nullhomotopic as a loop even when $\gamma_a$ is not a loop in the exact same way that you prove $\eta\overline{\eta}$ is a nullhomotopic loop when $\eta$ is a loop (and that's what you did when proving the existence of inverses)
it's the same argument word for word
a homotopy can be constructed like this: at time $t$, you follow $\gamma$ from $\gamma(0)$ up to $\gamma(t)$ and then you walk the same path backwards. for $t=0$, this is the constant path at $\gamma(0)$, for $t=1$ it is $\gamma\overline{\gamma}$.
 
Given a set $A$ with an equivalence relation $\sim$, we can consider the quotient set $A/\sim$. Given a $n$-dimensional closed ball $B^n$ and the sphere $S^{n-1}$, what does $B^n/S^{n-1}$ mean? What is the implied equivalence relation?
 
12:21 PM
It means that boundary of $B^n$ is identified to a point.
 
Alright, thanks
 
@Thorgott thanks :-).
 
1:21 PM
@JackRod Do you mean $|z|=3$?
Yes, it doesn't matter what the modulus is
The problem there is that they don't put enough parentheses to know what $\sin\pi z^2+\cos\pi z^2$ is.
It could simply be $1$.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:56 PM
Why do some of the simplest games lead to unusually fun math problems?
 
3:07 PM
$\sqrt{\frac{\sum(x-\overline{x})^2}{n-1}}$ becomes $\sqrt{\frac{n[\sum x^2-\sum x{\overline{x}} +\sum \overline{x}^2]}{n(n-1)}}$ I'm having trouble seeing how this reduces to $\sqrt{\frac{n(\sum x^2)-(\sum x)^2}{n(n-1)}}$
Unless my intermediate step doesn't make sense
 
3:23 PM
I encountered a strange question:
A collection of geometric figures is said to satisfy Helly
property if the following condition holds :
For any choice of three figures A, B, C from the collection satisfying
AโˆฉB โ‰  ะค, BโˆฉC โ‰  ะค and CโˆฉA โ‰  ะค, one must have AโˆฉBโˆฉC โ‰  ะค.
Which of the following collections satisfy Helly property?
(a) A set of circles
(b) A set of hexagons
(c)A set of squares with sides parallel to the axes
(d) A set of horizontal line segments.
My thoughts: drawing figures I eliminate, a and b
Also d
I am only left with c. What do you all think on this?
I eliminated a and b by using these figures:
No, I am sorry, option d couldn't be eliminated
I am vouching for options c and d
How to know that it's true?
 
Think about a diagonal chain for option C
 
@Rithaniel I am unable to see how is it helping ?๐Ÿค”
AP, PB and BQ are the diagonal chains ?
But they dont satisfy the suppositons in the problem. (Excuse me for the bad drawing )Am I missing something?
 
@Franklin You don't have $AP \cap BQ \ne \varnothing$.
 
@XanderHenderson that's what my point is...
A diagonal chain if means something like this, it is not satisfying the hypothesis of the problem
 
@Franklin Well, that doesn't prove that you can't come up with something that works. You've only shown that there exists a configuration which doesn't satisfy your hypotheses.
 
3:38 PM
@XanderHenderson yes...indeed!
@XanderHenderson I think we really can't come up with something that works for d otherwise. But I feel that's not the case. Any ideas how to approach this sort of weird problems?
 
@Franklin Suppose that you have three intervals $A = [a_1, a_2]$, $B = [b_1, b_2]$, and $C = [c_1, c_2]$ such that all of the pairwise intersections are nonempty. What can you say about the three way intersection?
 
@XanderHenderson Didn't you just rephrased the problem with algebraic formality ?๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚...
 
@Franklin Yes. It is often very helpful to rephrase things in the language of another field.
That is kind of the entire point of analytic geometry.
 
In my opinion the three way intersections might be empty or non-empty
 
@Franklin I didn't ask about your opinion. Prove it.
 
3:44 PM
@XanderHenderson I see...
@XanderHenderson The thing I have in mind is :$-( AโˆฉBโˆฉC) =A+B+C-AโˆฉB-AโˆฉC -BโˆฉC -(A\cup B\cup C )$
But I dont get how this will simplify it down ...
The above expression is considered in terms of cardinality
 
@Franklin Again, I would suggest that you look at the algebraic reframing. Use some inequalities.
 
(My chain suggestion was intended as a counterexample to the squares with sides parallel to the axes, unless those sets include the interiors of the squares)
 
What is the sphere packing problem about?
 
@XanderHenderson I approached your rephrasing with some pictures. I think I got a counter example. Just a sec, please!
 
@MatsGranvik It is about packing spheres.
 
3:53 PM
Yes but. If I have constructed a set of coordinates that are all at distance 1 in any dimension and at angle 60 degrees to each other, does that mean anything? @XanderHenderson
 
It's about finding a way to arrange sphere such that you "waste" minimal space
 
Given some set $E \subseteq \mathbb{R}^3$, and spheres of fixed diameter $d$, how many such spheres can you pack into $E$ so that any two spheres are disjoint (except maybe they touch at a point on their boundaries), and each sphere is contained entirely in $E$?
What is the most you can pack in there?
 
But people have known how pack oranges before Thomas Hales. Why should it be any more difficult in higher dimensions?
(*Mathematica*)
(*start*)
TableForm[
coordinatesForEquidistantSpheresWithDiameterEqualToOneInNdimensions =
Table[Table[
If[n == 0, 0,
If[n >= k,
If[k == 1, 1, -1]*
If[k == n, Sqrt[(n + 1)/(n)/2], 1/2/Sqrt[((k + 1)*k/2)]],
0]], {k, 1, 8}], {n, 0, 8}]]
N[Table[EuclideanDistance[
coordinatesForEquidistantSpheresWithDiameterEqualToOneInNdimensions\
[[m]], coordinatesForEquidistantSpheresWithDiameterEqualToOneInNdimens\
ions[[m + 1]]], {m, 1, 8}], 50]
Table[VectorAngle[
coordinatesForEquidistantSpheresWithDiameterEqualToOneInNdimension\
 
There is also generalized sphere packing problems, where the spheres are $n$-dimensional hyperspheres and $E\subseteq\mathbb{R}^n$
 
@MatsGranvik You seem to think that because people have been packing oranges for centuries, the problem is somehow trivial...
 
3:56 PM
@XanderHenderson Kind of, yes.
 
@XanderHenderson I think after getting exhausted with attempt to give counterexamples, rather than unsuccessful attempts, I conclude c and d as answers. I think this sort of reasoning (intutive) is used in solving mcqs
As it seems, the answer key suggests them as the answers!
 
It's also a question about the specific geometry of $E$. Like, suppose $E$ is a prism that is a hexagon with side length 1 on one one end and a triangle with side length 3 on the other. What is the maximum number of oranges of radius 1 that you can fit inside that prism?
 
@Rithaniel But why start with that way with a surrounding shape, why not just add oranges for each new dimension as you go along? n+1 oranges for n dimensions.
 
@MatsGranvik Because that is how the problem is defined.
Given some set $E$ and a fixed diameter $d$, how many $n$-spheres of diameter $d$ can you pack into $E$?
That is the sphere packing problem.
 
Couldn't one just say that staple your oranges in any dimension and then find the shortest path through the centers of the oranges?
Shortest path = densest packing
 
4:03 PM
@MatsGranvik I have no idea what that means.
 
Yeah, that's what makes the puzzle difficult. Like, if you have a collection of oranges, you can define an $E$ that is optimally filled by that arrangement (just take $E$ to be the oranges themselves), but the reverse direction is the interesting one
Like, start with an $E$ that we get from something else, and then try to pack oranges in
 
D S
I just observed that $A(kB) = k(AB)$ where $A$ and $B$ are matrices and $k$ is a scalar. Is this true?
 
red triangle = shortest path
=densest packing
 
@MatsGranvik What is the containing set?
 
@XanderHenderson Like a power set?
 
4:15 PM
@MatsGranvik No. What are you packing the balls into?
 
I don't know, any shape I guess.
 
@MatsGranvik Then you are missing the entire point.
The point is not to simply find an way of arranging balls in a void, but to pack balls into a prexisting, given set.
For example, consider trying to back spheres into a box with a square base that is big enough to pack in four balls (but no more), but a little too short to pack in another layer using your scheme. But maybe you can spread out the bottom layer a bit to pack in a second layer.
 
There you go. If your set is the triangle bounded by the x-axis, the y-axis, and the line $x+y=\frac{11}{2}$, then your left arrangement is (I believe) optimal: desmos.com/calculator/ev0p8jyhfy
 
@Rithaniel Or even sillier: take the set to be precisely those disks. :D
 
@XanderHenderson Lol, yeah
 
4:28 PM
Another example, in 2D: imagine a rectangle with width $4+\varepsilon_1$ and height $2+\sqrt{3}-\varepsilon_2$, where $\varepsilon_1$ and $\varepsilon_2$ are small. How many balls of radius 1 can you pack in there?
 
5:02 PM
the number of linearly independent rows in a matrix $A$ is the same as the number of linearly independent rows in its reduced row echelon form
no i'm trying to formulate a question
@DS yes its true
 
How about formulating with thinking before you type?
 
i've got it: is it true that $A^T\vec x = 0 \iff U^T\vec x = 0$, where $U$ is the reduced row echelon form of $A$?
 
No. This is not at all equivalent to your unremoved sentence, is it?
 
hm, thank you. it might not be, i will return
 
This is all dealt with carefully in the proof you said you really liked in my book.
 
5:16 PM
let me reread that
 
a few times
 
5:36 PM
Fundamental group of a 2 sphere with north and south poles identified is Z.
 
Ah, a sausage bent over with its ends touching. Love that space.
 
Because such a space is homotopically equivalent to $S^2\vee S^1$. So $\pi_1 (S^2\vee S^1)=0$* $Z=Z$
* means free product
 
alright i found the formulation i want: i want to prove that we can pick row vectors of $A$ to form a set of at most $n$ linearly independent vectors if and only if its reduced row echelon form has $n$ pivots
 
You should see the $\pi_1$ geometrically without being so fancy.
 
You mean by giving a cell structure to the space?
 
5:39 PM
No, by looking at it. :)
What is the generator of $\pi_1$ if you think of the sausage link with its ends touching?
 
@TedShifrin do you know about continued fractions?
 
@shintuku What is the meaning of rank? It's impossible to know what you're acknowledging exists and what you are not.
@user123234 Very little.
 
ah okey because I have a question how to prove some statement but as I understand you it would be better to ask it directly on MSE?
 
rank is defined as number of pivots, i avoided it above because what i'm trying to do is prove row rank understood as number of linearly independent vectors is the same as row rank understood as number of pivots in reduced row echelon form
 
I don't understand how to relate the space with Sausage link. This is the closest food that comes to mind (assuming the central hole to be a point at which north and south poles of the sphere are being identified.)
But I think I understand the spirit of what you mean: I take the 'centre' as basepoint and consider a loop which is a circle.
 
5:45 PM
The row spaces of row-equivalent matrices have the same dimension, obviously, @shin.
No, wrong picture, Koro.
Bend the sphere so that its north and south poles touch. You can draw that easily.
There is a "fattest" waist in the middle somewhere and then it gets thinner and thinner as you approach the touching ends.
 
yeah that much is clear Ted, but that tells us something about the size of the basis, not the maximal number of linearly independent rows of $A$, since we can make a row space basis that contains no rows of $A$
 
@user123234 I'm not the only person here, so someone who happens by might be able to help, but if you have a good question including some efforts and context, you should indeed post it on the main site.
 
no idea how to do it without using the approach I said above.
 
okey thanks
 
anyways, I think that proof of complement of finite points in R^n, n >2 is simply connected does not really need Van Kampen.
 
5:49 PM
@shintuku True enough. Indeed, unlike the column space situation, there's no algorithm for saying which particular rows are guaranteed to give a basis.
I think van Kampen is easy enough on the picture I'm saying. Cut it into two pieces (one containing the pinched point, the other a plain cylinder). The pinched point piece is contractible, the overlap is two circles.
 
Deformation retraction argument and knowing wedge of spaces (path connected) has fundamental group =free product of their fundamental groups does it too.
 
Sure, I just am encouraging you to develop some better intuition experience.
 
yeah so i'm wondering, which way would we proceed if we wanted to prove the equivalence of maximal linearly independent set of rows and number of pivots
 
Sliding the two points along an arc to be at the same point is perfectly fine.
 
yeah, I know, thanks. I am trying to understand.
 
5:53 PM
@shin Prove inequality both ways? Any linear combination of one set of vectors is a linear combination of the other set of vectors.
 
@shintuku: if you ever study algebraic topology, I recommend Pierre Albin's videos on the subject.
 
@TedShifrin ah!!! this is it!!
@Koro noted koro
 
@TedShifrin Ah, I think I understand this picture now.
I see how it looks like sausage bent such that its ends meet.
 
Perfect. :)
 
or a torus pinched at a point.
 
5:57 PM
So VanKampen is essentially trivial, since you have $\Bbb Z\star\{1\}$.
You mean a torus with no hole?
That I do not see, actually.
I see the cylinder with its two ends identified to a point.
 
@TedShifrin but two circles are not path connected so the two pieces should be reconsidered?
 
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