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12:00 AM
be careful what you do with C
thank you!
 
Why is it their fault?
Pay attention to algebra detail.
 
i couldn't bear the crushing guilt, the fault for failing to solve this problem
now i understand
 
Cool.
 
12:15 AM
Let $P$ be a finite $p$-group and $\Phi(P)$ denote the intersection of all the maximal proper subgroups of $P$. Show that $P/\Phi(P)$ is abelian.
 
I like to write $-C$ instead of $+C$
@TedShifrin see? I'm not alone in feeling bad about making really minor mistakes. Even @shintuku feels that way
 
it was not feeling bad, it was questioning the fabric of reality, my place in the world. the logical connection between the social structures that gave birth to my understanding
it was the birth of a revolutionary passion
which would have burned for years to come
but thankfully it was just a minor mistake and the fervor quickly went away
 
I felt so bad that day that I couldn't watch where I was going and walked into the closed door of a manga store slamming my face against it and hurting my nose
 
LOL @shin
 
12:30 AM
@TedShifrin did you have to take non-math electives in your uni days? How'd you do in those?
 
Zillions.
More than 60% of my courses were non-math.
2
I loved almost all.
 
@TedShifrin I'm not talking about physics classes, if that's what you meant. Of course you'd love them
 
ted was there under court order. anger management, driving tests, firearms requalification, you name it, he had to take it
 
7 semesters of German & Russian, 9 advanced French literature courses, 3 physics, 2 physical chem, 2 philosophy, 1 econ, 1 biology ….
PE, of course.
2 or 3 American literature
 
Yeah okay, I just suck that means heh. I do great in physics and PE though. I get hammered in any language class
 
12:35 AM
A lot more language/literature than anything else
Writing well is very important for math …
2
 
@TedShifrin advanced French literature though? Isn't that stuff supposed to be for purely humanities majors?
 
I did a French major, except for the thesis.
 
And here I am struggling to speak the language of the country I'm in right now
 
Leslie will agree that most mathematicians write poorly.
 
@leslietownes bet he failed the firearms test
 
12:37 AM
Well, I would struggle in Japan or China.
 
@TedShifrin why's this such a recurrent pattern? When I look at my own lab report and writing, as well as my peers' who are also STEM majors, its usually pretty mediocre at its best. Then you look at the written work on language or literature majors and its completely out of this world
 
For one thing, STEM students in their nerdiness don’t think clear writing is important. They are wrong.
2
I graded upper-level homeworks in part to criticize/improve the writing of my students.
 
@TedShifrin yeah it comes back to bite me later on, when I don't write down proper steps and a bit of explanation on what I did, especially in math problems and while writing code (i.e. leaving comments)
I look at code I wrote a week ago and wonder, why did I do this?
 
CS students are graded harshly, I’m told, if they don’t do a good job of commenting.
 
Coding classes are graded harshly yes, and yes I pay for it by losing points if I don't leave comments
 
12:46 AM
i agree with ted that most mathematicians write poorly. i would not agree that the written work of lit majors is out of this world.
 
@leslietownes out of this world compared to what I read on the daily. I mean, of course its still nothing compared to, say, a manga I'm reading. But that manga is written by an extremely gifted author so, that's an unfair comparison I think
 
at least, not anymore than any other majors are likely to lead to such writing.
they are more comfortable with putting sentences together, and you can often definitely tell that.
i agree with you that far.
 
That's basically what I'm trying to get. They aren't "afraid" of speaking, if that makes sense
I'm afraid of speaking
 
ted, you would like this. i took a deposition today, remotely, and it was interrupted by a cat who wasn't livvy.
 
@leslietownes speaking of cats, I saw a shiroi neko today, with blue eyes
Shiroi neko=white cat
 
12:51 AM
i see a kuro neko every day.
 
A black cat huh
 
if she is a neko and not a bakeneko or nekomata.
the jury is still out on that
 
@leslietownes what if its a bakemono instead?
 
it's possible.
 
Ore wa bakemono? Chigau, ore wa Akuma da!
@leslietownes make sure its not a purple cat, that'll be problematic
That means it'll be Beerus the God of Destruction
 
12:59 AM
You call showing $\frac{x^p}{p} + \frac{y^q}{q} \geq xy$ a challenge problem?....I laugh at thee....I do actually see why you would make $xy = c$ a constraint....interesting...
 
Find a filtration $1=M_0 \leq M_1 \leq \cdots \leq M_{n(n-1)/2}=U_n(\FF_p)$
so that $M_i \trianglelefteq M_{i+1}$ and $M_{i+1}/M_i \tilde{=} C_p$ (the cyclic group of order $p$). Any hints.
 
dc: sure hope there is some restriction on p, q, x, y there, or it definitely is a challenge problem
 
@leslietownes I can have Screech interrupt you whenever you'd like (or not like).
 
this is near the anniversary of that classic 'i'm not a cat' court video.
 
@D.C.theIII Certainly not a challenge problem. What makes you call it that?
 
1:12 AM
Your right, I just glanced at the sheet again......this is why one should never be boastful....lol
 
My memory may be failing, but it is still not dead :P
 
@leslietownes plenty of restrictions, but I was feeling myself and got carried away........now the next question which involves geometry has me quite humbled on the other hand.....
 
Ah, the quadrilateral area problem?
Not much geometry until the final conclusion.
 
@TedShifrin Yes, but I went back to the reference question 1.2.14. I hadn't done it so I'm working on it now to get a grasp of things.
 
I'm not even sure why I referred to that. It's a very obtuse reference. At the end you need to think about the geometry of angles inscribed in a circle.
 
1:19 AM
Fair enough. The question itself is actually interesting anyways.
 
But, yes, the geometry in 1.2.14 is one of my favorites, and it does show up when you want to know the polar coordinates equation of a circle like $(x-a)^2+y^2=a^2$.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:35 AM
So working on the quadrilateral question I've arrived at some intermediary questions that I have to work out to gt to the final result. Right now I have to find the quadrilateral which provides maximum area. Just based on experience I'm assuming it is the square, but I want to prove this.
Right now I'm thinking of an idea of showing that the area of the triangles from a square would be larger than the area of triangles from any other quadrilateral. But I'm having trouble relating the lengths of all quadrilaterals.
 
2:47 AM
@D.C.theIII impossible. The side-lengths are given to you, fixed.
 
3:09 AM
This feels like it should have a nicer answer for how old it is: math.stackexchange.com/q/1622725/137524
 
3:22 AM
got it
 
well, that’s just the determinant of the matrix representation of the Riemannian metric induced on the image of the parametrization
 
for the autonomous d.e $\frac{dP}{dt} = P(a-bP)$ how do we know that between $0<P(t)<\frac{a}{b}$ the solution is increasing/decreasing? I'm confused
it's to draw a phase portrait
 
what is the sign of $P(a-bP)$?
 
$aP - bP^2$ negative?
 
why
are a,b both positive?
 
3:33 AM
yes
 
then recheck your inequality
 
this is the part it's from i.imgur.com/mncFZi2.png
 
@peek-a-boo Otherwise known as the Gram determinant :)
 
doesn’t matter where it’s from. I’m asking you to check simple inequalities. $0<P<a/b$ says what about $P$? Says what about $a-bP$? Hence…
 
It says it's positive. But $aP - bP^2$ would mean positive minus negative of higher degree
 
3:36 AM
answer my three prompts
else you’ll be stuck and never figure it out
@TedShifrin well, I like unpacking things, just like my presents :)
and Gram reminds me too much of grams and kilograms
 
Well, that’s your failing :).
 
even though as a math student it should remind me of Gram-Schmidt
 
watch out for the kilogram matrix
 
Maybe it’s microgram.
 
you’re right!, that’s why we write $\mu_g$.
 
3:42 AM
What condition on angles is necessary and sufficient for a quadrilateral to be inscribed in a circle? Why? ......Clearly it must be that the angles sum to $2\pi$?
 
Huh? Clearly what?
 
the condition for the quadrilateral to be inscribed in a circle.
 
@peek-a-boo thank you i understand now. I got confused because I thought the table was talking about the D.E. decreasing/increasing. Makes more sense now
 
You’re being silly. What do the angles of any quadrilateral add up to?
 
360 degrees or $2\pi$
 
3:47 AM
oh my this is giving my flashbacks to my middle school days
 
So your “clearly” is nonsense.
 
I gave you the major hint earlier.
 
fixed side lengths
the other hint in the book use as variables a pair of opposite angles
 
Fixed side lengths was no hint. It was correcting your blindness. I said something about inscribed angles.
 
3:53 AM
geometry of angles inscribed in a circle
 
what happens to opposite angles in a square (which you know can definitely be inscribed in a circle)? taking a huge leap of faith, what would you dare to guess?
 
I was just rereading stuff about that with regards to arc lengths and the relationship of an inscribed with the central angle
 
What does one know about inscribed angles? And what will be true about opposite angles of the quadrilateral if it’s inscribed?
 
why cant autonomous D.E. be oscillatory in bounded solution values assuming it has unique solutions within the area
this part of txt is saying without solving the autonomous d.e we can basically ascertain that within specific solution regions it's monotonic
 
@TedShifrin well from pictures and recollection those opposite angles would have to be equal.
 
3:58 AM
ah nvm the chosen solutions are critical points so obviously between critical points you cant have more critical points unless specified
 
@D.C.theIII Then you draw very special pictures.
 
well the sum of opposite angles will be $\pi$
 
you know whats weird, inscribed angles are transcendental
and I guess the arc length would be too
 
@D.C.theIII Sounds good.
 
@TedShifrin So that is how to characterize the constraint. I'm going to have to ponder more on the reasoning of it, but it makes sense. Now I have to figure out the area of a quadrilateral using the idea of angles.
 
4:08 AM
are there higher degree analogues of a circle other than $x^2 + y^2$
or do they all just reduce to that
I tried putting in really high even degreed polynomials and they all just resemble squares
 
disregard what I said there. I'm rethinking things and what I said may not make sense
 
 
1 hour later…
5:17 AM
Is 2n choose n even for all positive integers n?
 
yes
 
5:40 AM
this is perhaps a not well enough defined question, but is graph theory useful in finite degrees of freedom settings?
say I want to map connections between an infinite number of nodes (for simplicity represent each node by a distinct natural number); does graph theory have the machinery to meaningfully work in this situation?
 
6:09 AM
@Astyx why?
 
what's the context?
 
combinatorics
 
can you find a induction satisfied by this sequence?
 
what sequence?
 
isn't range a redundant concept when we have the concept of image?
image of the domain is the range
image of a subset is the image of that subset
 
6:22 AM
for some people range and image are synonymous and there is no difference
for these people, "codomain" is sometimes used for what you might be thinking of, roughly, the declaration of the set that the function is regarded as a function to
 
but even if you don't do that what is the justification for keeping range around
 
whether you care about any difference between the codomain and the image depends on context, in a lot of contexts you might not
 
or i guess my question is: in all circumstances is the range of a function not the image of the domain?
 
it's up to you whether you care. sometimes it's helpful to be able to define a function without having to figure out its image.
if f(x) = x^4 + x^2 + x, what is the "range" of f?
wouldn't it be simpler to regard it as a function from the reals to the reals, then to actually figure out what its image is
and for many purposes, would you even care what its image is
 
hm i guess i thought you must specify the domain and codomain of a function
 
6:26 AM
up to you but yes, many people regard that as a good idea
 
i see
 
for example because you can then define precalculus functions on any domain that you want without figuring out their maximum and minimum values
which you'd need to do if you only had the concept of {f(x): x in domain}
 
so you're saying range is a concept that depends on the domain of a function
thus you can specify just the function and its domain
is an alternative definition?
well i guess you'd need some way to tell to where the elements are going or with what operations you manipulate things with
 
can you say what you mean by "range"? do you mean codomain, or do you mean the set {f(x): x in domain}? i'm not trying to be annoying. both definitions are in use, and the first is fairly common in a lot of calculus books
the set {f(x): x in domain} absolutely does depend on the domain
 
oh i see i mean range as defined in rudin: given a function f(x), all such values f(x) where x \in domain
 
6:28 AM
the codomain might not
OK, so rudin separates the concept of codomain and range
 
yes yes
 
figuring out the range of a function, in rudin's sense, can involve a whole lot of work that might be unrelated to what you want to do with the function
for continuous functions from [a,b] to R for example, it requires computing the maximum and minimum values of f on [a,b]
many people find it preferable not to build that into the definition of a function, and use the codomain concept instead
so you can say "here is a function f from [a,b] to R, and its range is [something that might be smaller than R]"
instead of "here is a function on [a,b] and we just don't know what its range is until we do a bunch of work"
 
are you saying to just define the codomain as the range?
 
no. it is to separate the concept of "the set that you define as part of defining a function, that you regard the function as taking values in" from the concept of "the set of the values taken by a function on its domain"
it is to say "hey, it might be useful to distinguish these"
instead of to say "we only have one concept, range, and codomain is redundant"
again, whether you care at all about any of this depends on what you're actually doing or hoping to do with a function
which may be why calculus books don't always introduce the concept of codomain or distinguish it from the range
 
> The term range is sometimes ambiguously used to refer to either the codomain or image of a function.
> A function f from X to Y. The blue oval Y is the codomain of f. The yellow oval inside Y is the image of f, and the red oval X is the domain of f.
 
6:40 AM
okay so tthose are the definitions i agree with
other than range XD
but okay i see
 
Yeah, range is a bit ambiguous. So you need to either define it explicitly, or avoid it.
 
6:57 AM
Why are integrals important in calculus/real analysis?
 
many reasons. they relate a function and their derivative, Fourier series, bounds on summations, etc
 
 
1 hour later…
8:30 AM
3D graphs that don't contact the plane in the closure area may proceed as scheduled, but be alert for possible collisions with 2D graph lines that reach the hole and unexpectedly enter 3D space.
4
 
i know that this question has been asked and answered many many times on this site :P but i've read several answers to no avail. does anyone have an explaination for rudin's proof of theorem 2.12 (countably infinite union of countable sets is again a countable set)
I don't understand at all how to create a bijection from $\mathbb{N}$ to the sequence (17)
and also how to understand if this proof is rigorous or not :P it doesn't really seem that rigorous at all
 
8:48 AM
@SillyGoose If you can read Python, my second solution here may help: stackoverflow.com/a/40309089/4014959
 
is there an explanation that only refers to the concepts mentioend by rudin in that post :P
though thank you for the link
 
I'll try to make something that's closer to what you want. Give me a little while, I'm having a slow brain day...
We're doing a triangular scan through that array, and we can do that via triangular numbers, $T(n)=n(n+1)/2$. The core trick is to invert that quadratic.
Rudin's saying we can make a bijection from the naturals to the cells of the array, by traversing it on those diagonals, since we know that each diagonal has finite length. But we may need to drop some cells because they contain elements that we met earlier in the scan.
 
9:07 AM
xD what the heck
how is this called a proof
 
9:17 AM
It's called a proof by an argument known as Cantor's Diagonal Argument.
 
@SillyGoose Here you go:
I was talking about this yesterday when I said that Cantor used a simple diagonal pattern.
@SillyGoose What's wrong with it? Dropping cells is ok because it can't increase the size of the set. But if we were adding items to the set, that would be bogus, because it might make the set uncountable.
 
9:34 AM
@SillyGoose the "rigor" of the argument comes from the one-to-one pairing of the members of the sets. Afterall, that is how counting evolved.
 
This version also has the inverse function, to convert a (u, v) pair to an i index. I guess I should've written that function first. ;)
If you're not familiar with Python, // does floor division. And when you apply it to integers (like my code does), the result has integer type.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:28 AM
@D.C.theIII No, for a quadrilateral to be inscribed in a circle, its opposite angles must sum up to $\pi$
 
 
2 hours later…
1:00 PM
Is it correct to say that a contravariant functor is not a functor?
because in the definition of a functor T, we have T(fog)= (Tf)o (Tg).
But in case of a contravariant functor, this order reverses.
 
1:35 PM
If I have a vector field and I take an integral transform of the solutions (where the transform exists), could I obtain a new vector field?
 
2:05 PM
@Koro that's not a very defined statement
 
2:19 PM
Thor: why not?
Do you want me state the definition of contravariant functor that I am referring to above?
Suppose that $C$ and $D$ are categories. Suppose that $T: C\to D$ is a function which does the following: 1) For every c in obj C, Tc is in obj D. 2) If f is a morphism in Hom (a, b), a,b are in obj C, then Tf is in Hom (Ta, Tb). 3) Suppose fog is defined, f is in Hom (a,b), g is in Hom(c,a), then T(fog)= Tg o Tf, 4) identity goes to identity. Such T is called a contravariant functor.
3) does not appear in the definition of a functor.
 
2:59 PM
to say something is/isn't a functor, you want to define a source/target
it's true that a contravariant functor C -> D is not necessarily a functor C -> D (but it could be)
it's arguably inaccurate to say a contravariant functor is not a functor, because a contravariant functor C -> D is a functor C^op -> D or C -> D^op
 
3:20 PM
@TedShifrin yeah!
(also, thanks everyone :) )
 
 
2 hours later…
5:41 PM
Can anyone please help me with this math.stackexchange.com/questions/4613387/… ?
 
6:05 PM
$\frac{dy}{dx} = xy^{1/2}$ solving gives us $y=\frac{x^4}{16} + C$ why is there a singular solution $y=0$?
I dont understand where that comes from
 
How do I prove that an infinite dimensional NLS has a maximal subspace which is not closed?
 
Like it requires c=0 at x=0, but why is that considered a singular solution and not particular? In general are singular solutions specific values of x,c, and particular solutions are functions with specific values of c?
 
I found proofs of "an infinite dimensional NLS has a infinite dimensional subspace which is not closed"
@Obliv Because $y=0$ solves the ODE
 
6:20 PM
am i talking out of my butt here: math.stackexchange.com/a/4637240/137524
writing an indefinite integral as $F(x)=\begin{cases} F_1(x), & x>a \\ F_2(x), & x<-a\end{cases}$ feels 'morally' wrong to me
 
pndas: for particular examples of normed spaces you might be able to give an example without the axiom of choice (or something equivalent) but for an arbitrary infinite dimensional normed space you will need something like AC
pndas: its equivalent to showing the existence of a nonzero linear functional on the space that is not continuous (given such a functional, f, then ker(f) turns out to be a maximal subspace that is not closed, and given such a subspace, S, the canonical map into the quotient of your space by S turns out to be such a functional)
 
@SemiClassical what is the alternative, though?
 
@Obliv better check your integration carefully
 
saying there's two functions, one for each domain?
not writing a piecewise function as though there's a global antiderivative to begin with
 
@leslietownes Do you have any idea how to prove it?
 
6:27 PM
What about if you wrote the original function as a piecewise, then it seems less morally wrong, no? @SemiClassical
 
it's fine if you use it to evaluate an integral whose endpoints are in one region or the other, of course
 
@TedShifrin did I do something wrong?
 
sure. using the axiom of choice as needed, convince yourself that there's a countable linearly independent subset (c_n) of unit vectors in the space and a functional f satisfying f(c_n) = n for all n
 
@Obliv no? it's the same function for $x>a$ and $x<-a$
 
@Franklin I've added an anwer, take a look and ask if something is not clear
 
6:28 PM
that's more of a hint than a full proof, but that's the idea. for some reason i find it easier to think in terms of linear functionals than subspaces
 
it's the fact that $F(x)-F(y)\neq \int_x^y f(t)\,dt$ for $x>a$ and $y<-a$ that bugs me
 
@Obliv why would I comment?
Semi, I don’t see what’s wrong except for the issue of an IVP … on a disconnected domain we need two
 
Oh, because it's $\pm$ so the constant cancels out? @TedShifrin
I need to pay attention to square roots more
 
eh, fair enough @ted
 
huh? Your integration is plain wrong.
 
6:30 PM
my own preferred solution would be to write $F(x)=\int_a^x f(z)\,dz$ for $x$ on an appropriately-cut domain
 
no way jose, it's $\frac{dy}{dx} = xy^{1/2} \to \frac{dy}{y^{1/2}} = x dx$
 
You can’t integrate on a disconnected set.
 
integrates to $2y^{1/2}=\frac{x^2}{2} + C$
 
i'll stop here, b/c having two integration conversations at once is confusing :P
@Obliv yeah, but that's not equivalent to $y=x^4/16+C$
 
Oh, Obliv, I misread, but your solution is wrong based in what you just typed.
 
6:32 PM
$(x^2+1)^2\neq x^4+1$
 
Same 6th grade algebra error shin made yesterday.
 
I didn't know we kept track of constants like that.
 
constants are numbers
$(x^2+C)^2=x^4+2Cx^2+C^2$
 
You can’t just slap a +C wherever you feel like it.
 
in calc 1 we never cared about preserving constants
but I guess in diff eq we start to care
 
6:34 PM
Try $dy/dx=y$, for example.
 
because you never had to do anything other than +C
you can modify $C$ to some extent, e.g., replace $e^C$ with $A$ to perhaps get a nicer formula
 
$e^{y} + C = x$
wait
 
Precisely my point! That is garbage.
 
$y = e^x + C$ dang I just did it again
 
@leslietownes I'm sorry. But I don't see why the existence of non-zero unbounded linear function would imply that ker(f) is not closed. Does ker(f)= closed imply that f is continuous?
 
6:36 PM
Still very wrong.
 
backwards
still wrong
do it slowly
 
fine ill use paper
 
✍️👏
 
$e^{\log y + C} = e^{x+C}$ final answer.
 
show the work here
 
6:39 PM
No.
If you use two constants, they cannot be the same.
 
$\frac{dy}{dx} = y \to \frac{dy}{y} = dx \to \int \frac{dy}{y} = \int dx \to \log y + C_1 = x + C_2 \to e^{\log y + C_1} = e^{x+C_2}$
so it was just the constants?
 
mostly. there's no need to have two integration constants here: it's enough to have $\log y = x+C$
 
so $y = \frac{e^x e^{C_2}}{e^{C_1}}$
 
So what is the general solution, in simple form?
 
$y = e^{x+C}$
 
6:42 PM
yep. or, invoking my comment earlier, we can let $A=e^C$. therefore $y=Ae^x$.
whether that's better is a matter of taste
 
isn't it more precise to keep track of EVERY constant of integration when developing a family of solutions?
or it doesn't matter because they're of the same order
 
well, if you have $F(y)+C_1 = G(x)+C_2$
 
pndas: yes
 
then you can rewrite that as $F(y)=G(x)+C$ where $C=C_2-C_1$
and if $C_2,C_1$ are arbitrary constants, then $C$ is just as arbitrary
so you don't actually get any additional freedom by including both
 
@Semiclassical Here we get that $y=Ae^x$ is a solution of ODE with $A>0$. But even if the constant is negative or 0, its still a solution
 
6:45 PM
pndas: the main site has all of this stuff (you do have to watch out for answers that unwittingly use finite dimensional results that dont hold in the infinite dimensional setting). see e.g. math.stackexchange.com/questions/2327189/…
 
you're not wrong to be worried about it, though. there's an analogous technique for partial differential equations (i.e., more than two variables), and there you would get more than one integration constant
there actually is one sorta weird thing with this example: @PNDas is right to point out that, for isntance, $y=-e^x$ is a solution
but in that case we'd seemingly need $\log y=x+\log(-1)$
i forget what the best way to deal with that is tbh
 
i guess it's probably to remember that, strictly speaking, it's $\int dy/y=\ln |y|+C$
which in retrospect cuts against my kvetvching about piecewise antiderivatives
 
@Semiclassical so a singular solution is one that cannot be obtained simply by changing those arbitrary constants?
 
strictlier speaking you may even need different C's for positive and negative y
that's not an issue that the absolute value solves
 
6:50 PM
@leslietownes yeah, though that can only really bite you when you want to do an integral from negative to positive y. which you shouldn't for the $\int dy/y$ example
@Obliv well, lets consider the case of interest to see what goes wrong
ignoring the singular solution for now, you correctly had that $2y^{1/2}=x^2/2+C$ is the general solution
 
yeah, i wasn't paying attention to the actual context of your problem, just being persnickety about antiderivatives for no reason
 
suppose we evaluate this equation at $x=0$. if we write $y(0)=y_0$, then the equation becomes $2y_0^{1/2}=C$. so you can write $y^{1/2}=x^2/4+y_0^{1/2}$.
if you now try to take $y_0\to 0$ from above, this is $y^{1/2}=x^2/4\implies y=x^4/16$. but the singular solution $y=0$ has $y(0)=0$ as well
so the "general" solution doesn't include $y=0$
which is to say, yes: your singular solution is one which cannot be obtained by varying the integration constant
 
ohh
 
@leslietownes We were earlier discussing the need for different constants for different components of the domain.
 
hmm, i forget if what i quoted just now is an example of this or something else
 
6:57 PM
even not-very-good ODE books will sometimes slip examples of this kind of stuff around their statement of existence and uniqueness results, even if they don't include the proofs of those results
 
i know $r''(t)=r^{1/2}$ for $r\geq 0$ has some funny business
 
Most calculus teachers do not warn their students that the solution of $dy/dx = 1+y^2$ has a countable number of constants in it. :)
 
gross
okay, the one i quoted is an example but it requires a little effort to see it.
 
Well, when your domain is a countable collection of disjoint intervals, these things happen.
 
let $v=dr/dt$. then $r''=dv/dt=(dv/dr)(dr/dt) =v dv/dr=r^{1/2}$, which yields $v^2 = (4/3)r^{3/2}+2C$
 
7:01 PM
More directly, what is $\int \sec^2 x\,dx$?
 
@TedShifrin yeah
 
So, think about that in the context of your "cases" discussion earlier.
 
fair enough
continuing: if i require $r=R$, $v=0$ at time $t=0$, this yields $C=-(2/3)R^{3/2}$. hence $v^2=4/3(r^{3/2}-R^{3/2})$. in particular, as $R\to 0$ this is $v^2=(4/3)r^{3/2}$
but $v=0$ is also a solution
this arises in the context of "Newton's dome": sites.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/Goodies/Dome
and gets termed a weird example of indeterminism in Newtonian mechanics
 
Oh, this is a standard phenomenon. Look at $y'=\sqrt{|y|}$.
 
7:24 PM
Did some reading on the quadrilateral problem @TedShifrin and I think I almost have the setup. So given our fixed sides I was going to use Bretschneider's formula as the function to maximize. But I'm having trouble creating a constraint. What I expect to happen is based on the correct constraint I will get values $\theta$ and $\gamma$ for my opposite angles and those values I could sum together to show that the quadrilateral of maximum area is inscribed in a circle.
 
What or who is Bretschneider's formula?
 
this, apparently:
In geometry, Bretschneider's formula is the following expression for the area of a general quadrilateral: K = ( s − a ) ( s − b ) ( s − c ) ( s − d ) − a b c d ⋅ cos 2...
 
was just going to post that
 
Oh, hell no.
 
it's neat that a formula like that exists, but if i ever have to use it i think i've failed somewhere
 
7:30 PM
I agree.
 
So to at least explain how I came to that idea. I was asking myself "if a general expression for the area of a quadrilateral exists?" and so happens this did that corresponds to my opposite angles
 
So, yes, having a pair of opposite angles, how do you find the area?
 
calculating the areas of triangles
 
Two triangles, yes.
So, in terms of our two angles and $a,b,c,d$, what is the constraint in the problem?
 
Because I don't rememebr exactly if it is fact, but do opposite angles bisect?
 
7:33 PM
Huh?
I would suggest using one angle with $a,b$, the other angle with $c,d$.
 
That sentence sure didn't mean that to me.
You're looking at the wrong triangles, as I suspected.
 
I tried to draw all the sides as "uneven" so I'm assuming they are different lengths. How should I rectify my picture?
the main angles are in blue the black ones were just an idea
 
Use included angles. I already said to group $a,b$ and now $\theta$, then $c,d$ and $\gamma$.
 
8:00 PM
Huh.....law of cosines.....and I actually have two constraints
 
8:14 PM
How two?
 
one for $\theta$ and one for $\gamma$
but looking now they both equal the third side....
 
The third side is unknown.
So one constraint!
 
correct. So instead of what I drew in the pic above imagine me "splitting" the quadrilateral the other way
so with some manipulation I have $e^2 = \frac{a^2+b^2 - c^2 - d^2}{2} = ab \cos(\theta) - cd \cos(\gamma)$
Now I have to express the area of a triangle in terms of $\theta$ and $\gamma$ for the respective triangles
 
8:37 PM
No $e$, or you have introduced an unwanted new variable.
 
So is it fine for me to use $\frac{a^2+b^2 - c^2 - d^2}{2}$ as the constant?
 
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