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12:41 AM
10 AM and I'm already hungry.
Lunch time needs to be earlier
 
1:30 AM
debating on whether i should bump my diff eq class to honors or not. It would involve more difficult tests probably more theory & proofs or something
It's not that bad right now just doing first order linear D.E
the integrating factor was a curveball, going to have to think about this
 
I found the integrating factor easy. After seeing a few examples I thought, isn't there a general method for this? And well, it already existed in that form
 
for higher order linear d.e ?
idk what examples u mean, up until this point we only knew how to separate variables to solve a d.e
 
Talking about first order linear DEs
 
I'm still not entirely sure what multiplying an integrating factor with something of the form $(\frac{dx}{dy} + P(x)y)}$ means
and the method of obtaining it by $e^{\int P(x)dx}$
i suspect it's because I don't have a deep understanding of $e^x$
 
2:27 AM
@ペガサスSeiya it is actually quite hard
Lie group theory involved.
 
2:40 AM
What is meant by "finite arithmetic" used to prove something is finite*?
like proving some number $a$ is finite
context is you can prove tree(n) is finite only for specific values of n, not in general, using finite arithmetic.
transfinite arithmetic is used to prove it in general
 
i dunno. maybe more context is needed. is this a logic or set theory class where the answer is technical, or is "finite arithmetic" just informal code for something like "induction on the positive integers" as distinguished from induction on some general totally ordered set?
 
2:55 AM
@leslietownes I was thinking induction just based on the user still learning first order ODE's
 
It's from a youtube video lol not from class.
 
Is it generally true that if $f(x)^n < f(x)^{n+1}$, then $1 < f(x)$?
(for $f(x) \neq 0$)
I feel it should be obvious, but I am open to do the idea that there exists a function $f:\mathbb{R}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ where that is generally not true
 
3:12 AM
Forget about $f(x)$ and think just about real numbers. Is $n$ a positive integer, for starters?
 
$f(x) = \frac{1}{x}$ is $\frac{1}{x^n} < \frac{1}{x^{n+1}}$ I don't think this is true for $n>0$
 
For what $x$?
So you’re discussing the truth of what statement?
 
ohh sorry he said if
 
If then
 
@TedShifrin $(1 + \dfrac{1}{n})^n < (1 + \dfrac{1}{n})^{n+1}$
 
3:16 AM
ironically we just went over that for existence and uniqueness of solutions in D.E, being able to follow logic lol.
 
Oh, I was asking Obliv, but OK:)
@Sal You need the converse of what you originally asked
 
if $f(x)^n < f(x)^{n+1}$ is true, then you can just divide the $f(x)^n$ term on both sides to show that, yes.
 
Careful with inequalities and dividing!
 
okay what if you just show $f(x)^n < f(x)^{n+1}$ is the same as $f(x)^n < f(x)^n * f(x)$ then for $f(x)>1$ you'd have that be true?
 
As I said, Sal, just think about a powers of a number. What do you know about the number?
Yes. Inequality multiplication needs positive numbers!
 
3:30 AM
Sir I have a very simple question.
Can I ask it here?
 
you can even ask another one. :)
 
If A is proportional to B, then can we say that 'Change in A is proportional to change in B'?
Sir, is it yes or no?
 
I vote yes if we use the precise meaning of proportional.
 
4:11 AM
same
 
homology shmology
@shintuku hey
@Koro hey
I'm studying out of Weibel. I bought the paper back. Any electronic form of Weibel is really badly typeset
it was a genius move with forsite to see that at this time one is forced to order a proper copy
@Koro, @shintuku I'm at page around 10 of Weibel, if you guys would like to switch from basic AA over to applications
Since we were at the same level in AA class
I figure you would do just fine in Weibel
Homology is quite simple in its basic definition. You're just quotienting abelian groups
So it attracts me because though I don't know much of it, at least I can get the basic definitions. Unlike in Galois theory where everything is confusing
 
5:23 AM
@Obliv They (possibly) mean finite field arithmetic. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_field_arithmetic
 
5:33 AM
can i ask a question?
 
but, but, i already did
 
no you didn't
 
can i ask a rhetorical question?
 
5:48 AM
can i make statement?
 
May you, you mean?
 
I think the most amount of points that can fit inside a unit cube is 8 (each corner) if no points can be less than 1 unit away from each other. To prove this, can I imagine dividing the cube into eight 1/2 by 1/2 by 1/2 mini cubes and saying that if I had 9 points, I require 2 points to be in the same mini cube which can't be farther than $\sqrt{3}/2 \lt 1$ from each other?
 
Fundamental theorem of algebra for polynomials over C is a consequence of Liouville's theorem.
Liouville is pronounced as 'Leuvieey'?
 
Question: What’s the intersection of the unit sphere centered at one vertex with the unit sphere centered at the opposite vertsx?
 
or 'leuwill'?
 
5:52 AM
Lee-oo-ville
 
ohh
 
Ville is pronounced ville in French.
 
But he was french.
I see. I thought the 'ille' sounded like 'eey' in French.
 
I am aware, and I speak fluent French.
Eil is like ey with gutteral end.
 
@TedShifrin Is this directed toward me?
 
6:02 AM
Yes.
 
I imagine a circular cross-section in the cube, I don't know what this would mean
Can more than 8 fit? I don't see it working
 
You get a circle of radius $1/2$. Need to see how far those points are from the other 6 points.
 
6:25 AM
I guess I thought of a sphere of radius 1 since the unit circle has radius 1. I should say a 1x1x1 cube also then
 
6:37 AM
I was doing a 1x1x1 cube.
The distance between the far vertices on the long diagonal is $\sqrt3$.
 
i can but may not
 
Hii I've a doubt. What is $2024! - 1 \mod 2024$? It's 2023 but how? The actual question which I was solving is $1\cdot1! + 2\cdot2! + 3\cdot3! + ... + 2023\cdot 2023! \mod 2024$.
 
If my back of envelope computations are right, those two spheres intersect, as I said, in a circle of radius $1/2$. On that circle there are two points whose distance from $(1,0,0)$ is $1$. Of those, one is farther than $1$ from $(0,1,0)$ but less than $1$ from $(0,0,1)$; the other is vice versa. So, it would seem you are correct.
@Utkarsh Do you know anything about mod?
 
Yes
 
What is $2024! \pmod{2024}$?
 
6:40 AM
Its 0.
 
So subtract $1$.
 
I'm dumb.
 
We all are from time to time.
 
You can't speak?
 
smacks copper
 
6:41 AM
Im sorry :/
 
No big deal.
 
I'm just unable to understand how 2024! - 1 mod 2024 is 2023.
 
@Utkarsh What is $-1 \pmod 3$ ?
 
I thought it was just as simple as splitting the cube into 8, 0.5x0.5x0.5 cubes and realizing that 9 points is impossible since 2 will end up in the same mini cube putting them within 1 unit of each other
I didn't think spheres were important?
 
@copper.hat 1? or -1?
Oops 2.
 
6:44 AM
Oh, @Utkarsh, I thought you realized the answer when you said that.
 
the values $...,-6,-3,0,3,6,...$ are all equivalent. Similarly for the other numbers. By convention, when we have mod we pick the number in 0,..., 2$
 
I don't. I love $-1\pmod n$.
 
I mean that when I ask what is $-1 \pmod n$ the answer is usually $n-1$
 
You're right, @Cotton. I was trying to do it explicitly. But pigeonhole is a good approach.
@copper The answer is only that if you ask a computer/calculator, not a human.
 
@Utkarsh note that $2024*\text{anything}-1 \pmod {2024} = -1 \pmod {2024}$.
 
6:46 AM
@copper He saw that part.
I think.
 
Ohhhhh
 
We got to $0$ subtract $1$, so I assumed we had that.
Anyhow, I'm out for tonight.
 
Good night @TedShifrin!
I'm off to sleep myself
 
Night, all!
 
2024! - 1 mod 2024 = 2024! mod 2024 - 1 mod 2024. Is it right?
 
6:49 AM
not quite, you would have to wrap another $\pmod {2024}$ around the 'outside'
 
many mathy books avoid this ugliness by never making 'mod' a binary operator
 
i prefer equivalent classes, of course
 
some of the dirtier books avoid even that
 
guess what sort of magasines i prefer to read
 
gentlemens' special interest magazines?
 
6:57 AM
ohh, i thought they were lingerie advertisments
but a lot of the interesting features seem to be $\pmod 2$.
manifolds of various sorts, really
i like to watch various sports, and follow a few runners/field & track athletes.
on youtube, many of the events featuring women have a comment of the form "I salute the men of culture gathered here to witness..."
moving on...
 
7:15 AM
 
7:32 AM
It is intuitively clear to me that in a triangle T if we take any two points (on T or inside T), then the distance between them cannot exceed the perimeter of T.
But how does one prove this fact?
Is there a quick way to see this?
I require this to prove Goursat's theorem.
ohh I managed to prove it.
Take a triangle ABC. Take two points P and Q in the interior of the triangle. Join P and Q and extend the line segment to touch the sides of the triangle at say D and E. (D is on AB, and E is on AC). DE<AD+AE, whence PQ<AD+AE<= perimeter of ABC.
Similar argument works in case both the points don't lie in the interior of the triangle.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:47 AM
@Koro i guess we could do it through coordinate geometry too?
 
8:59 AM
@Koro there's an easier way to prove this by circumscribing the triangle
 
9:19 AM
@Koro How about extending the line segment between the points until it hits two sides of the triangle. Consider the triangle formed by the extended line and the two sides of the triangle. Now apply the triangle inequality.
@geocalc33 what else would one do in a LINE? where was that sign?
I'd start by mentioning how negative that sign is ;-p
 
9:41 AM
@robjohn that's what I did :).
@robjohn it appears to be from some mall.
@nickbros123 it could be done that way, but it would get lengthy.
@ペガサスSeiya the one I wrote is just fine, it only uses the triangle inequality.
 
@Koro it is from a Pittsburgh deli
 
10:03 AM
who knows why they put it...
Suppose that we have a function f from X (an open subset of C) to C, that is complex differentiable at every point of X, can we say that the image of f can't be a line?
Here X is not given to be connected.
Suppose that f=u+iv. If the image is a line, then there exist constants m and c, v=mu+c.
Differentiating and using CR equations, we get: $u_x=u_y=v_x=v_y=0$.
If X is connected, then we have f=0, hence a contradiction.
So it seems to me that the image could be a line in lack of connectedness. But I don't know any counterexample to this.
the correction in the second last line is: If X is connected, then we have f=c, where c is a constant map.
 
11:18 AM
To edge extrema (extrema on the edges of the domain), you don't say maximal turning point/minimal turning point, right?
Would you say edge maximum/edge minimum? Or would you just call them edge extrema in either case?
 
 
1 hour later…
12:46 PM
Many thanks @AkivaWeinberger I a bad programmer, this is why I was asking. Many thanks for your kind response and example with grey colours.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:22 PM
@Koro if X is not connected you should get by the same reasoning that f is constant on every connected components of X, but there can be only countably many
 
2:34 PM
hmm, so range f is countable but a line has uncountable many points.
so image f can not be a line.
Cool.
Thanks.
The three sphere considered as the subspace of quaternions is a topological group.
I don't see why this sphere is Hausdorff.
Quaternions space is Hausdorff.
Ahh, the quaternions can be regarded as $\mathbb R^4$, that's why.
 
Hey guys. Does anyone know of a nice finite sum that would satisfy:
1. $\sum a_i = 1$
2. $0 \lt a_i \leq 1$
3. $a_i \gt a_{i+1} \forall a_i$
?
Or maybe a few for that matter.
I'm trying to find a nice algorithmic way to divide time into portions that I can allocate to events based on priority of event.
So the event with priority 1 should take more time than the one of priority 2 should take more than priority 3 and so forth.
1 chosen for convenience for the value of the sum which I can multiply by a scalar to distribute over some time interval.
 
3:01 PM
Alright, I've worked out so far that based on the number of events and the simplest behavior I could have, we might have something like $\sum_i^n a_i = \frac{n-i}{n^2}$ where $n$ is the total number of events.
 
3:52 PM
$a_i=2^{-i}$
$a_i=\frac6{\pi^2i^2}$
$a_i=\frac1{i(i+1)}$
@AMDG any of those should work
 
Is there a term to refer to a subgroup with "trivial" normalizer? I.e., if $H \le G$ with $N_{G}(H) = H$, does such a subgroup have a name? Perhaps self-normalizing? Does it go by any other names?
 
4:10 PM
Evans uses two notations $B(0,1)$ and $B^0(0,1)$. Does anyone know the difference between them?
Okay may be for him $B(0,1)$ is closed unit ball and $B^0(0,1)$ is open unit ball so interior.
We generally use $B_r(x),B(x,r)$ for open and $\overline{B_r}(x),\overline{B}(x,r),B[x,r]$ for closed balls
 
4:26 PM
@PNDas sometimes there can be confusion between the closure of the open ball of radius r and the closed ball of the same radius with this notation
 
Goku beats everyone. But he couldn't beat the heart virus
 
@AlessandroCodenotti Yeah but we used those notations in functional analysis course. And in NLS they are equal.
 
4:43 PM
@robjohn Thank you! I think I found one that might work well: $2\frac{n-i}{i^2 + i}$.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:57 PM
@PNDas Surely he tells you earlier in the text ... Or perhaps in an appendix of notations at the end of the book.
 
6:38 PM
if we consider the factor group $\mathbb R/\mathbb Z$, then what is meant by 'if we give the identification topology to $\mathbb R/\mathbb Z$ (the
corresponding partition of $\mathbb R$ is that given by the cosets of $\mathbb Z$)'?
 
identification topology is just another word for quotient topology
 
I know that. What I don't understand is: we want to give $R/Z$ the identification topology. So we should be talking about partitions of R/Z and not of R, right?
Or is it to be interpreted as follows:
We consider the map p: R-->R/Z: r--> r+Z. It is onto. And we declare U (subset of R/Z) open iff $p^{-1}(U)$ is open.
Is this the interpretation that was meant above?
 
The partition of R is given by the fibers of the projection to R/Z, points in the same equivalence class are squished together in the quotient. The equivalence classes are exactly the cosets of Z in R
 
In context of quotient topologies, I think that $X/A$ quite often means the equivalence relation such that all points of $A$ are glued into one point.
 
the notation is unfortunately overloaded
 
6:51 PM
In the other words, the partition is given by $\{A, {x}; x\notin A\}$.
 
but since they're talking about cosets, they surely mean the group-theoretic quotient
 
Oh, I missed the part in paranthesis. Sorry...
So in this context, it is going to be the circle, right?
 
yeah
 
yeah, R/Z has a different meaning too (Z identified to a point).
which should look like loops connected at one point.
Suppose that G is a compact hausdorff space, that also satisfies group axioms. It is given that the group operation is continuous, then how do I show that the map $g\mapsto g^{-1}$ is continuous?
Let's call this map $F$. I should show that for any open set U in G, $F^{-1}(U)$ is open. But not sure how to proceed with this (and also it doesn't seem to be using the compactness of G).
So instead, I should consider closed sets, but still the same issue.
 
7:12 PM
Homogeneous spaces $G/H$ show up all over topology and geometry. We are not identifying $H$ to a point.
 
@AlessandroCodenotti: any hints for this topological group question?
 
What question?
Oh, what you just wrote just above.
 
oh, I didn't know this
cute
a trick is to consider the subspace $\{(g,g^{-1})\colon g\in G\}$ of $G\times G$
 
yes, this one:
25 mins ago, by Koro
Suppose that G is a compact hausdorff space, that also satisfies group axioms. It is given that the group operation is continuous, then how do I show that the map $g\mapsto g^{-1}$ is continuous?
 
A continuous implicit function theorem ...
 
7:24 PM
@TedShifrin I'll implicit YOUR function!
 
Not without permission, Xander.
 
also a trick, but I prefer mine
 
Mariano knows plenty ... Almost as much as Moishe Kohan.
Ah, so you're doing the closed graph trick, @Thor.
 
@TedShifrin hash tag me also!
 
7:27 PM
@Thorgott: Let's call that subspace S. I consider the map $(g,g^{-1})\mapsto 1$, which is continuous.
 
@TedShifrin oh, that's a very nice way of putting it
I forgot this was a thing
 
Yeah, like the standard analysis exercise of proving (with compactness and Hausdorffness for one direction) that a function is continuous iff its graph is closed.
Note to Koro: This is of course the graph of the function you want to show is continuous.
 
right, so the didactic way to do this is:
a) prove the closed graph theorem Ted mentioned
b) prove this set is closed
(b is pretty easy)
 
ohh, I think I remember having proven this theorem long ago.
 
I'm pretty sure Koro has discussed that analysis problem in here before.
 
7:30 PM
Certainly an open ball in $\Bbb R^n$ is an $n$-dimensional submanifold of $\Bbb R^n$; a closed ball is likewise a submanifold with boundary. Most often submanifolds we encounter have dimension less than that of the ambient space. — Ted Shifrin 12 mins ago
Moreover (modulo Whitney), a manifold need not even be embedded in a larger space. There needn't be an "ambient space".
 
But he was talking explicitly about submanifolds, Xander.
Data stuff lives in Euclidean space, not abstract constructions.
 
@TedShifrin Which is why I didn't leave the comment there---I think it only confuses the issue.
 
Basically, I have to show that the graph of $g\mapsto g^{-1}$, i.e., {$(g,g^{-1})$: g in G} is closed in G.
 
But I got the impression (from the question) that the asker didn't even really understand that manifolds don't have to be submanifolds of $\mathbb{R}^n$.
 
I've never consciously proven it, but it's already intuitively internalized from doing enough related topology
 
7:32 PM
Perhaps not, but I chose not to go down that path.
 
Or, really, even that manifolds could live in $\mathbb{R}^n$ rather than $\mathbb{R}^3$.
 
Oh, he is dealing with high-dimensional data sets.
 
are they asking if all manifolds have dimension 2?
 
@Thor The question to ponder is where compactness is really needed.
 
@TedShifrin Then perhaps they are using "surface" to mean something I don't understand?
 
7:33 PM
I feel like someone put cacti in my food
 
No, he is using surface to mean high-dimensional codimension > 0, I'm quite sure.
 
@TedShifrin Ah, okay.
 
@ペガサスSeiya cacti are nice plants
 
That isn't clear to me.
Hence my confusion.
 
they don't need much water.
 
7:33 PM
I'll add a comment to my comment. Good point.
 
@Koro not so nice when you bite them
 
Like I said, I am confused enough and outside my depth enough that I didn't want to comment, but there seems to be a huge gap between what this person is studying and the mathematical foundation they have.
 
@ペガサスSeiya I had them before I came to college, to keep the air around me pure.
 
@TedShifrin and also the funny little cousin, the connected graph theorem only valid for R and drastically false in most other places
 
If radii is plural for radius and cacti for cactus, then Lexii should be plural for Lexus
 
7:35 PM
Not that this is terrible---one shouldn't have to study graduate level differential topology to do big data (or whatever), but the gap is sufficiently large for me to be useless.
 
@TedShifrin I'd prefer an adjective hyper- in that acse
 
@ペガサスSeiya Prii is the plural of Prius. Convince me otherwise.
@Thorgott hash tag me too.
 
@XanderHenderson I agree with that!
 
@Thor: No, hyper- means specifically codimension $1$.
 
I'll buy 3 Prii please
 
7:36 PM
@ペガサスSeiya You seem to be flunking both logic and Latin.
 
also true
just don't call them surfaces, I guess
 
@TedShifrin Well, I haven't seen a single argument that's convincing enough otherwise
 
Just remember that Riemann surfaces are in fact curves :P
 
@ペガサスSeiya You must be quite wealthy. I am looking forward to buying my sister's Prius off of her before she goes to New Zealand.
 
Second declension in Latin (not fourth). Where are you getting the i in Lexus?
 
7:37 PM
It is 10 years old and has 100,000 miles on it, but it is still newer than my current vehicle. And has fewer miles on it.
 
@XanderHenderson yes I am. I own 3 hice, Ted knows. One for me, one for my wife and one for her boyfriend
 
There are 8 continents not 7.
 
And gets infinitely better mileage @Xander
 
@TedShifrin Not infinitely better, but much, much better.
 
@XanderHenderson 100,000 for a Prius? That's a pretty good condition if I'm being honest
 
7:38 PM
I'll be going from 20 mpg to 45+.
Really looking forward to it.
 
@Koro no there are 56. 7 times 8
@XanderHenderson why not consider an EV?
 
@ペガサスSeiya Because I live in rural America.
I had a Leaf when I lived in SoCal.
I loved that car. But there is nowhere to get a charge here.
 
Yeah Prius is gonna serve you great then.
 
There are literally no public charging stations within 30 miles of where I live.
 
New Zealand lies in that continent.
 
7:40 PM
I drive my dad's fuel hungry Tundra as a secondary ride
 
There are exactly two places to plug a car in in Winslow (at the La Posada Hotel).
 
Until I can get from LA to Mammoth without spending a long time finding a charging station along the 395 and an even longer time charging, I don't think an EV is for me
 
The next nearest places to get a charge are in Show Low (60 miles from where I live) and Flagstaff (90 miles in the other direction).
 
I was very disappointed to find out that my Civic hybrid barely gets better mileage than my 2002 5-speed Civic. On long trips, I get about 45, but around town with lots of highway, it's just 36-38. Very disappointing.
 
@Koro what about Old Zealand? And Old York?
@TedShifrin You can purchase my A7 instead
 
7:41 PM
@robjohn That's about 300 miles, right?
EVs are getting close to having enough range to do that without a charge.
 
@XanderHenderson sounds close, but the climb in altitude uses a lot of energy.
 
@robjohn Right. Of course.
 
The Audi E-tron gets close to that range on a single charge
 
@ペガサスSeiya there is/was Old Zealand, and even Old York?
 
In any event, I have always kind of figured that the "right" way to road-trip with an EV is to plan for a longish break every 200-250 miles---you can get an almost full charge in 30 minutes (if the right equipment is installed), which gives you enough time for a meal.
 
7:43 PM
I drove my uncle's Porsche Taycan, that thing accelerates like an F-16 jet
 
It is about an 8000 ft climb as well as 300 miles.
 
@Koro if we have places titled "New" then that implies there was an older version of that place before
 
@robjohn Yup. I should know that. I've driven that road a million times.
On the way to Reno.
 
haha
 
(or going the other direction)
 
7:44 PM
@XanderHenderson That would be good, but it's hard to plan such stops along the 395
 
I don't like to drive below 70 miles an hour
Too slow for me
 
@robjohn Ridgecrest?
Lone Pine?
Olancha?
Lancaster?
(or do you go out through San Berdoo?)
 
What was Obama's last name again?
 
We stop in Lone Pine, but I don't know of a charging station there.
 
Google Maps now includes EV charging if you ask it to.
 
7:46 PM
Ooh, I'll have to look
 
@robjohn Ah, okay. I see. I was answering a different question. I was thinking about where the infrastructure should be in order to make the trip possible. I wasn't thinking about where the infrastructure currently exists.
 
@TedShifrin By the way, instead of the Civic, the Honda Accord might give you better mileage
 
@TedShifrin Oh, cool!
 
A horse driven carriage has infinitely better mileage than any car
 
I just looked at your route. There are 2 Tesla superchargers along 395 and a regular charging in Lee Vining, past Mammoth.
 
7:49 PM
@ペガサスSeiya getting feed and surviving 120°+ temps for 300 miles might not be good for a horse drawn carriage.
 
I wanted a smaller car, not a 5-person sedan for mostly driving 1 person.
 
@robjohn true. But still, it consumes no gasoline. Good for environment!
@TedShifrin hey, the civic looks nice. You payed a bit extra for that too
 
I bought my car in 2015, the last year they produced the Civic hybrid. If I needed to replace it, it would have to be with an Insight. But I don't intend to buy another car.
 
So, Ted, how about a drag race? You'll be in a civic. I'll be in my A7
 
If you want to race, I'll borrow a Tesla.
 
7:53 PM
Then I'll borrow my uncle's Taycan, hope you don't mind
 
I don't do this nonsense, anyhow.
I refuse to drive with a lead foot.
 
A rapidly accelerating Tesla can actually produce a log of Gs
@TedShifrin because mileage?
 
Yes, largely, and because my reactions at 70 years old aren't what they were at your age.
 
@ペガサスSeiya I'd prefer an exp of Gs.
 
We're over 50 years apart in age, wow
 
7:56 PM
Well, I have 3 weeks to go to 70.
 
@XanderHenderson then, would you volunteer as a test pilot for my remote controlled aircraft?
 
@ペガサスSeiya Heck, no.
 
@XanderHenderson trust me I won't crash
 
1 message moved to ­Trash
 
I am perfectly happy to pull Gs, but only if I can reach the stick and rudder.
 
7:57 PM
@XanderHenderson that's the fun part. What will you do if the G force is so high you can't effectively control the control surfaces
That's what happens in flat spins
 
@ペガサスSeiya Yes, I know. Just don't do that.
 
@TedShifrin my favorite room, BTW
 
However, the solution to a flat spin is to move the center of gravity.
 
@XanderHenderson no guarantees. I've deliberately tried to flat spin jets in simulators
 
@Ted There is a Tesla supercharger in Lone Pine. Not in the area we usually stop, but it is there. I'll have to investigate on how an EV does toting a heavy load up a fairly steep incline for a good distance. There are 3 charging stations in Mammoth, which is good.
 
7:59 PM
@ペガサスSeiya You have to mess up pretty badly in most craft in order to end up in a flat spin.
 
@XanderHenderson yes, some rudder and elevator inputs. Vectored thrust is also helpful too
 
Either you messed up your weight and balance on the ground, or you did something really stupid in the air.
So, again, don't do that.
 
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