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12:01 AM
@Thorgott why is that? may you elaborate please?
 
because the summands on the RHS dominate the summands on the LHS pointwise
 
12:25 AM
@Simple pretty sure you're stuck on the reverse direction cause it's wrong
 
@Thorgott yes, I am. can you give me some advise
 
12:38 AM
@LeakyNun Sorry for the delay. I decided shortly after making my post that I would try and sleep on it. I don't actually know how to approach either implication (polynomials whose coefficients are themselves polynomials always intimidate me)
For anyone interested, I'm trying to tackle this right now: "Let $F\subseteq K$ be fields. Show that the domain $F+xK[x]$ is integrally closed if and only if $F$ is algebraically closed in $K$"
 
nevermind, actually, it isn't wrong
 
Bob
1:05 AM
Are calculators allowed on math exams? should they be?
 
depends on the exam, to both
 
Bob
How about on a probability or statistics exam?
The reason I am asking is that I am doing a statistics problem now and I am using
 
The issue is the ease of cheating because with today's calculators you can program the whole course into them.
 
Bob
SciLab for some of the calculations
so Ted did you ever allow calculators on exams when you taught?
 
yeah, that should of course be prevented
 
Bob
1:09 AM
by the way, the stock market futures are down
 
I don't see an issue with allowing a basic calculator for, say, numerical calculations though
 
Nope.
 
Bob
Ted did you ever teach numerical analysis?
 
No, I have no issue with a basic scientific calculator, although too many of today's students need a calculator to add 1/2+1/3.
 
Suppose that $\mu$ is the measure on $(\mathbb{Z}^+,2^{\mathbb{Z}^+})$ defined by $$\mu(E)=\sum_{n\in\,E}\frac{1}{2^n}$$
Prove that for every $\epsilon>0$, there exists a set $E\subset\mathbb{Z}^+$ with $\mu(\mathbb{Z}^+\setminus\,E)<\epsilon$ such that $f_1,f_2,\dots$ converges uniformly on $E$ for every sequence of functions $f_1,f_2,\dots$ from $\mathbb{Z}^+$ to $\mathbb{R}$ that converges pointwise on $\mathbb{Z}^+$.
 
1:10 AM
No, I didn't teach numerical analysis, but I taught lots of linear algebra and I taught probability.
 
the only exam I took that allowed use of a calculator was numerical analysis
 
Bob
it seems to me for a probability / statistics course
 
though I only used my calculator to double-check an integral that I manually calculated first
 
Bob
allowing a calculator makes sense
 
got stuck on show $\mu(Z\setminus\,E)<\epsilon$
 
1:11 AM
Except for the issue I raised. So unless people get just bare-bones calculators specially for exams, it's a big security issue.
 
Bob
it is my belief that in the last 30 years
professors are putting more effort on catching cheaters
and at the same time
cheating is on the rise
 
Yup, we caught a student in Calc II sending pics on his phone to someone who'd agreed to do the problem for him on the outside.
One of many reasons I'm thrilled to have retired ...
 
Bob
I do tutoring
and about once a year
I get a request to
help students cheat on an exam
 
I actually had relatively little cheating with my students, because I taught more upper-level courses and hard Honors courses. I caught some cheating on homework, and prosecuted.
 
Bob
in fact, I had one student who wanted me to do the entire course for her
 
1:14 AM
lol
 
Bob
it was taught over the internet
no work for her
 
Yeah, for a lot of distance learning courses they make students go to somewhere monitored for exams.
 
Bob
not in her case
 
Just look at all the cheating that goes on on MSE ...
And the number of people who love posting complete solutions without asking anything from the cheater.
 
Bob
is that cheating?
 
1:16 AM
I consider it cheating, yes.
 
Bob
or are people trying to learn?
 
When it's graded homework for class, what do you call it?
 
Bob
I think we cannot tell
hard to say
depends on what the rules of the course are
 
Basically, the modern world is making it so that we cannot use graded homework in courses, and in my harder courses I counted homework up around 35%.
 
Bob
brb
 
LOL, Thorgott. I actually caught some of my own differential geometry students posting their homework on here. A speech in class followed the next day.
 
Bob
it seems to me that Math Stack exchange can be very useful in learning
but Prof. don't want students to use it
 
You know, I actually come to you guys for help with homework fairly often. Should I not do so?
 
Of course. You'll notice that I engage in a lot of socratic conversations and try to get students to figure things out with my hints and responses. But typically someone interrupts by posting a complete solution. That makes me furious.
We typically engage in "office hours discussions" here rather than giving complete solutions, although Mathein and others have been known to do so.
 
Bob
the link you posted Ted
 
1:22 AM
I posted a link?
 
Bob
do you think the Prof knows who the students are?
 
So, you try to give help and direct the student's thoughts instead of just being a book of answers
 
Bob
the link you posted in this chat room
 
I didn't post that.
 
That was Thorgott, Bob
 
1:23 AM
Clearly that professor recognized her student. As I have recognized several of mine.
 
Bob
reminds me of this: math.stackexchange.com/…
oh, sorry Ted
it was not you
 
The notion that grades should be based totally on a few exams insults my notion of education. So, yes, I continue to think that graded homework is essential.
But in this world it probably can't last.
 
You know, one of my favorite professors graded homework at about 60% of the grade
 
What made it worse is that I graded all my own homeworks in upper-level courses, and that was a serious time investment.
Homework can reinforce basics but also push with harder things that take lots of time. Exams cannot do that.
 
Now that I'm a grad student, I'm taking classes where 100% of the grade is homework, and it's kind of intimidating
 
1:25 AM
Yes, but mostly grades are a joke in grad school, Rithaniel, except for first-year courses.
 
Bob
meaning everybody gets As
 
Typically. In my advanced courses, I ultimately agreed to give B's if the student attended every lecture, but to earn an A one had to do a certain portion of the homework problems.
 
This is a good observation, actually. My only fear in getting a bad grade is that it reflects on the fact that I don't really understand the material
 
Well, then it's a fair grade!
At the graduate level, there's certainly nothing wrong with discussing things in here to arrive at better understandings.
But you should also discuss with your classmates and profs.
 
Yeah, I just have a slight fear that I might not understand the matertial as well as I would like to think I do. Also, direct in-person interaction is stressful for me
 
1:29 AM
Well, in all seriousness, you should work on that. I presume you will need to do some teaching, and you need to learn to feel comfortable in that venue.
 
Yeah, I have been taking a teaching course this semester, and it's not debilitating or anything
But, if given the choice between interacting with a person and not interacting, I'll tend towards the latter
 
Bob
I am signing off now ; thanks for the chat ; good night
 
Night, Bob.
 
Cya Bob
 
@Rithaniel, I know it's difficult to get over that hurdle, but whether you continue in academia or get a real-world job, you'll have to interact with people.
 
1:33 AM
Indeed, hence why I'm working on it
 
Cool :) I don't mean to sound harsh.
Sometimes I'm harsher in here than I would be in person, in fact.
 
Nah, you don't sound harsh. You sound like a person trying to provide advice on something you've seen before. Perhaps in other grad students
But yeah, I don't usually enjoy interacting with people, but I know that it's often necessary
 
I guess I loved teaching because I do enjoy interacting and feeling like I make a difference.
 
I think I got my problem. since $\mu(Z^+)=1$, as a single integer can be a subset of $Z^+$, there exists such integer $N$ such that $\mu({N})<\epsilon$. Let $E$ be a set such that its maximum less than $N$
 
Strangely, I actually prefer to interact with people online
 
1:36 AM
what do you guys think
 
I read the problem six hours ago, @Simple, so I don't berember.
Don't we know that $\mu(\{N\}) = 1/2^N$?
You have to do a summation, don't you, so your answer doesn't seem right.
 
you are right, ):
 
That happens once in a blue moon.
 
Ted is right at least every once and a while
 
once in a while? :P
 
1:43 AM
Actually, I have to help grading an exam tomorrow. I've graded assignments before, but not exams. Is there any advice you think is important? @TedShifrin
 
("once and a while" usually being a number of minutes less than 100)
I had to grade some problems on a calculus exam, and the thing people kept saying to me was "be consistent"
 
@Thorgott: Your professor needs to give guidelines and advice. I can't do that in the abstract. Be sure to grade one problem at a time, so that your grading is consistent across the different students. Ideally, come up with a grading rubrik before your start, and modify it slightly (if the professor doesn't give it to you) as necessary. But then that means going back and re-grading to be consistent.
 
So, on the problem I posted above, I'm taking steps and trying to figure out where to go next
Heya Erico
What I have so far is "Suppose $F+xK[x]$ is integrally closed. Then let $t^{n+1}+\sum_{i=0}^nf_i(x)t^i$ be a monic polynomial, where $f_i(x)\in F+xK[x]$. Then there exists $g(x)\in F+xK[x]$ where $g(x)^{n+1}+\sum_{i=0}^nf_i(x)g(x)^i=0$. Next, we can pull the constant term out of each polynomial in this expression to attain $f+g'(x)^{n+1}+\sum_{i=0}^nf_i'(x)g'(x)^i=0$ where $f\in F$ and $g'(x),f_i'(x)\in xK[x]$"
How I go from here to claiming that $F$ is algebraically closed over $K$ is still unclear to me
 
Heya Eric.
 
1:49 AM
how is it going
 
Yeah, I think each of us grading will handle a different exercise, so that part is taken care of already. I'll try my best to stay consistent. Thanks.
@Rithaniel what does it mean for $F$ to be algebraically closed over $K$?
 
Every polynomial in $K[x]$ has a root in $F$
 
This implies that $F$ contains an algebraic closure of $K$, I think
Not sure if that's relevant here
 
At least, that's my understanding. I might be mistaken and be misplacing some symbols somewhere
 
@Rithaniel: Don't use prime unless it's derivative.
 
2:02 AM
Fair. I'll put hats or bars over the function letters, then
 
counterpoint: use the primes, bad notation keeps the mind agile
 
smacks Eric
 
bad notation makes you skeptical about notation, and is therefore healthy :P
 
smacks Semiclassic
I'm exercising the smacking muscles a lot.
 
We know $\mu(Z^+)$ converges since this is a geometric sum, there exists an integer $N$ such that $\sum_{n=N}^{\infty}1/2^n<\epsilon$
 
2:04 AM
the ancient mathematicians were so smart because they had no good notation to fall back on and instead just had to know how to do things
 
No wait, what I said is nonsense
I was thinking about $K\subseteq F$, but it's $F\subseteq K$ here
 
Yes, @Simple, that's right.
 
Evaluating a polynomial at a particular value $f\in F$ constitutes a ring homomorphism, right?
 
Yup, it's a primordial example.
Erase that last question.
 
Hi all.
 
2:11 AM
(that one?)
 
Now, we have $\mu(Z^+\setminus\,E)<\epsilon$. Because $\{f_n\}$ converges pointwise on $Z^+$. we can take $\epsilon'=\max\{\epsilon_1,\epsilon_2,\dots,\}$ for all $x\in\,E$ since $E$ is finite. Then $\{f_n\}$ converges uniformly on $E$
 
Heya anakhro
 
What's everyone up to?
 
Yes, Rithaniel. You're confusing the $a\in F$ with wanting the kernel of the evaluation at $a$.
Hi @anakhro.
@Simple. You'd better define what those $\epsilon_i$ are and put in some $N_i$ or something.
 
So, since $f+\hat{g}(x)^{n+1}+\sum_{i=0}^n\hat{f}_i(x)\hat{g}(x)^i=0$, I can evaluate the polynomial at $f$ and see that it must also be $0$ after evaluation because it's a ring homomorphism. I think that just finishes it off because the $f_i(x)$ were arbitrary
 
2:16 AM
@TedShifrin yes, I will. I just got excited that I got the problem
 
LOL, OK, Simple.
 
2:36 AM
Ah, I have a problem. Just because $f_i(x)$ were arbitrary doesn't mean that $g(x)$ was arbitrary, so this doesn't necessarily account for every polynomial in $K[x]$, right?
 
@Rithaniel I think $F+xK[x]$ being integrally closed in $K[x]$ is equivalent to $F$ being algebraically closed in $K$ (in the sense of being equal to its own relative algebraic closure)
Maybe that's what you want?
 
Indeed, that's exactly what I'm going for
 
Ok, I get it now
 
So, am I going down the correct sort of path to show this? Is the traditional proof for this different?
 
2:53 AM
Here's how I would approach it. Suppose the subring is integrally closed. We need to show F equals its own relative algebraic closure in K. Take an element of K that is algebraic over F and note constants are polynomials too.
 
3:21 AM
So, if we assume $F+xK[x]$ is integrally closed in $K[x]$, then let $k\in K$ is algebraic over $F$, then there exists $g(x)\in F[x]$ such that $g(k)=0$. However, since $F[x]\subseteq F+xK[x]$ (and this is where I lose it. $F+xK[x]$ being integrally closed means that I take any polynomial and can construct a larger polynomial out of it that ends up being the zero polynomial. That doesn't necessaily mean that I can conclude anything about the roots of these polynomials, right?) @Thorgott
 
3:51 AM
This would be much easier if I knew what to google to get the right kind of input
If only there was a term for $F+xK[x]$
Like, I've written out "Suppose $F+xK[x]$ is integrally closed in $K[x]$ and let $k\in K$ be algebraic over $F$. Therefore there is a nonzero $g(x)\in F[x]$ such that $g(k)=0$. Since $F[x]\subseteq F+xK[x]$ then there exist $f_i(x)\in F+xK[x]$ such that $g(x)^n+\sum_{i=0}^{n-1}f_i(x)g(x)^i=0$" and I'm just staring at it because there is nowhere else to go, which I can see
Then I have to do the reverse implication, and then tackle four other problems:
Let $F\subseteq K$ be fields. Show that the domain $F+xK[x]$ is completely integrally closed if and only if $F=K$
Show that $F+xK[x]$ is an HFD.
Show that $F+xK[[x]]$ is an HFD.
Show that the domains $F+xK[x]$ and $F+xK[[x]]$ are UFDs if and only if $F=K$.
Wait, I think I see it
Suppose $F+xK[x]$ is integrally closed in $K[x]$ and let $k\in K$ be algebraic over $F$. Therefore there is a nonzero $g(x)\in F[x]$ such that $g(k)=0$. Since $F[x]\subseteq F+xK[x]$ then the coefficients of $g(x)$ are polynomials in $F[x]$ and so $k$ is integral over $F[x]$ and must therefore be a constant polynomial in $F+xK[x]$, so $k\in F$. Therefore, $F$ is algebraically closed in $K$.
 
4:44 AM
@Rithaniel you're assuming what you want to prove
"$F$ is algebraically closed in $K$" means "every $k \in K$ is algebraic over $F$"
 
I thought what I was trying to prove is that $F$ is it's own algebraic closure. So if I have some $k\in K$ that is algebraic over $F$, I need to show that $k\in F$
 
ah, sorry, you're right
 
Okay, you had me panicking
 
can you post your question again?
 
Sure, yeah, I'll also post what I have on the work
Let $F\subseteq K$ be fields. Show that the domain $F+xK[x]$ is integrally closed if and only if $F$ is algebraically closed in $K$
$\implies$ Suppose $F+xK[x]$ is integrally closed in $K[x]$ and let $k\in K$ be algebraic over $F$. Therefore there is a nonzero $g(x)\in F[x]$ such that $g(k)=0$. We note that, since $F$ is a field, $g(x)$ is equivalent to a monic polynomial up to multiplication by a unit, so, WLOG, we assume $g(x)$ is a monic polynomial. Since $F[x]\subseteq F+xK[x]$ then the coefficients of $g(x)$ are polynomials in $F[x]$ and so $k$ is integral over $F[x]$ and must therefore be a constant polynomial in $F+xK[x]$, so $k\in F$. Therefore, $F$ is algebraically closed in $K$.
 
4:54 AM
I think I see the idea here (I'm just looking at the forward implication)
but the presentation is not as excellent as the idea
wait now I don't see the idea here
 
Yeah. Took me way too long to see it, myself. I kept trying to construct larger polynomials.
What would you recommend?
 
what does "$k$ is integral over $F[x]$" mean?
 
$k$ is integral over $F[x]$ means that there exist $f_i\in F[x]$ such that $k^n+f_{n-1}k^{n-1}+\ldots+f_1k+f_0=0$
 
"$F+xK[x]$ is integrally closed in $K[x]$" and "$F$ is algebraically closed in $K$" sound really similar
@Rithaniel no, as in, $k$ as an element of what
 
$k$ as an element of $K[x]$, being considered as a constant polynomial
 
4:57 AM
$F[x]$ is not a subring of $K$, so it can't be as an element of $K$
right
 
So I should clarify that, you're right
 
I guess the problem is "$k$ is integral over $F[x]$ and must therefore be a constant polynomial in $F+xK[x]$"
what is this "therefore'?
 
Well, we assume that $F+xK[x]$ is integrally closed, which means that if $k$ is integral over a subring of $F+xK[x]$, then it must be contained in $F+xK[x]$
 
oh, is that how integrally closed is defined?
that's equivalent to my definition but seeing it feels strange
 
Well, it's my understanding of it. When you take the integral closure of the ring, it has to remain inside the ring (if that ring is integrally closed). It stands to reason that the integral closure of a subring would also have to be inside the ring, as otherwise you'd arrive at a contradiction
 
5:03 AM
ok then I can see all your ideas
so I can now tell you how I would present it
$\implies$ Suppose $F+xK[x]$ is integrally closed (in $K(x)$ and therefore in $K[x]$), and let $k \in K$ be algebraic over $F$. We want to show $k \in F$. Now since $k \in K$ is algebraic over $F$, there is a nonzero $g \in F[x]$ such that $g(k) = 0$. By dividing by the leading coefficient, we can assume WLOG that $g$ is monic. Now interpreting $k$ as an element of $K[X]$ and $g$ as a monic polynomial with coefficients in $F+xK[x]$, we see that $k \in K[X]$ is integral over $F+xK[x]$,
which by assumption implies $k \in F+xK[x]$, so $k \in F$.
 
Very compact. I have a tendency to add extraneous words, maybe
 
we both wrote 5 lines (at least on my screen)
The key differences are "$g \in F[x]$" vs. "$g(x) \in F[x]$", and how to do WLOGs (saying "by ..."), and saying "interpreting"
 
I could always use pointers on how to structure proofs to be more easily understood, honestly
 
oh, not to mention "we want to show"
 
Yeah, I'm gonna add that. I always like the "we want to show" lines
It makes things clear
 
5:17 AM
I don't understand "we know all roots of this polynomial are in $F$"
 
$F$ being algebraically closed means that all roots of a polynomial with coefficients in $F$ are in $F$
 
but "$F$ is algebraically closed in $K$" doesn't mean that
 
Wait, I might have made a mistake. Darn
Yeah, I made a mistake, my proof is incorrect
 
rip
 
Well, it's just the second half, at least. If you have any insight, though, I think I could use it.
 
5:32 AM
you need a trick to show that "$g \in K[X]$ integral over $F+xK[x]$" implies the constant of $g$ being integral over $F+xK[x]$
 
My mind wants to say "evaluate $g$ at the constant of $g$"
That gives us that the constant of $g$ is integral over $K[x]$, though, because the coefficients of $g$ are pulled from $K$
Got it (I think)
Suppose $F$ is algebraically closed in $K$ and let $g(x)\in K[x]$ be integral over $F+xK[x]$. We want to show that the constant term of $g(x)$ is in $F$. We know there exist $f_i\in F+xK[x]$ such that $g(x)^n+\sum_{i=0}^{n-1}f_i(x)g(x)^i=0$ and evaluating this polynomial at $x=0$ we get that $g^n+\sum_{i=0}^{n-1}f_ig^i=0$ where $g$ is the constant term of $g(x)$ and $f_i$ are the constant terms of $f_i(x)$.
We note that this is a monic polynomial with coefficients in $F$ with $g$ as a root, and so we can immediately conclude that $g\in F$. Therefore $F+xK[x]$ is integrally closed over $K[x]$.
 
5:50 AM
nice trick!
even nicer is that this wasn't the trick I had
I guess all roads lead to Rome
 
Hehe, nice! What was yours?
 
that if $c$ is the constant of $g \in K[X]$, then $g-c \in xK[X] \subset F+xK[x]$ and so is integral.
so $c = g-(g-c)$ is integral.
 
Oh, that's clever
I love that feeling when ideas start to flow when they haven't been flowing all day
 
6:25 AM
When a mathematician is feeling dramatic: "let $\frac{\alpha}{\omega}\in K(x)$"
 
6:40 AM
Alright, current task is: Show that if $F\subseteq K$ are fields, then $F+xK[x]$ and $F+xK[[x]]$ are HFD
I might be able to use the class group to show this, actually
This would be my first experience using it, actually, so it'd be good practice
Wait, that only works in algebraic number fields. Drat
 
6:57 AM
@adeshmishra idk
 
7:15 AM
(Actually, I was apparently mistaken. It's just that the class group is most commonly used in algebraic number theory, so they usually define it on algebraic number fields.)
 
 
4 hours later…
11:15 AM
hi
From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas%E2%80%93Lehmer_primality_test I'm trying to understand $k\equiv (k\,{\bmod {\,}}2^{n})+\lfloor k/2^{n}\rfloor {\pmod {2^{n}-1}}$
It seems to me 'mod' can be used in two senses. 1) as a binary operator 2) as a arithmetic system. Is this correct? In the equation above is it used in both senses?
 
 
2 hours later…
1:19 PM
Let $D_{\infty} = \langle a,t \mid a^2 = t^2 = 1 \rangle$ be the infinite dihedral group, and let $H = \langle at \rangle$. Then it isn't hard to verify that $D_{\infty}/H \cong \Bbb{Z}_2$. Why does this entail that $D_{\infty}$ is amenable?
 
If $0\to A\to B\to C\to 0$ is a ses of groups with $A,C$ amenable then so is $B$
@user193319 (Conversely if $B$ is amenable so are $A$ and $C$)
 
Ah interesting. Is this a criterion for a sequence of discrete groups, or more generally any sequence of locally compact groups?
 
I'm not sure, I only know stuff about amenability of discrete groups
 
Okay. Thanks! This is helpful (I'm mostly dealing with discrete groups too).
 
If you want a reference for the ses result I learned about it from Ceccherini-Silberstein, Cornaeert's book on cellular automata
The thing is that amenable groups are closed under subgroups, quotients, extensions and direct limits
 
1:30 PM
Ooh! Very cool! I want to learn more about cellular automata, because there's some recent work on associating a von Neumann algebra to automata.
 
Finite and abelian groups are easily shown to be amenable. So one might ask if all amenable groups can be built from finite and amenable groups using quotients, extensions, subgroups and direct limits. Turns out that the answer is no, groups that can be built this way are called elementary amenable
I've never seen a proper proof that there are amenable groups which are not elementary amenable, I think it's an hard result
 
 
2 hours later…
3:46 PM
It's so annoying to count the number of spanning trees in $K_n$.
There's a very annoying proof by setting up a bad bijection to $[n]^{n-2}$.
 
Watch me try to explain Gödel on Reddit (again): reddit.com/r/math/comments/f8t4na/…
 
4:03 PM
@BalarkaSen what do singularities of complex plane curves look like?
(and is this knot theory?)
 
Hi @balarka
 
4:20 PM
they're links and i guess
 
4:34 PM
Prescribe a map:
$\Psi:\zeta_{\Bbb R^2} \to \Bbb T^2,$
which gives a transformation of $\zeta-$space in $\Bbb R^2,$ to the flat torus.
Let $\zeta_{\Bbb R^2}$ consist of the following integral curves in which the source is $(1,0)$ and the sink is $(0,1)$:
$ \phi_s(x)=e^{\frac{s}{\ln(x)}}. $
$x,\phi\in \Re(0,1)$ and $0\le \Re(s)<\infty.$
The integral curves $\phi_s(x)$ are solutions to the differential equation $X=\big(x\ln(x),-y\ln(y)\big).$ $\zeta_{\Bbb R^2}$ is then seen as a subregion of $X.$ How do I relate $X$ on $\zeta$ to some other vector field on $\Bbb T^2$? Is the push-forward viab
I am reading "Intro to Manifolds" by Loring Tu, Ch. 14. Vector Fields. Tu states that in general it is very difficult to push-forward a vector field from one manifold to another. The concept of related vector fields is then discussed as a way to relate vector fields on different manifolds.
 
4:53 PM
Let, $\Psi_*:T_p \zeta_{\Bbb R^2} \to T_{\Psi(p)}\Bbb T^2$
be the differential at a point
$p\in \zeta_{\Bbb R^2}.$
If $X_p\in T_p\zeta_{\Bbb R^2}$
we call
$\Psi_{*}(X_p)$
the push-forward of the vector
$X_p$ at $p.$
 
 
1 hour later…
6:09 PM
Hello everyone. I posted a question regarding some basic distribution theory but no one seems to answer. My course at university uses Kolmogorov and Fomin Introductory Real Analysis and specifically chapter 5 section 21 "Generalized functions". Is there someone available to perhaps help me with some basic questions regarding that part or perhaps point me some material so I can understand the material?
The question I posted can be found here math.stackexchange.com/questions/3556396/…
 
The functions are $\Bbb R\to\Bbb R$. I suspect being finite is a weird old way to say compactly supported, since the author obtains that they vanish outside of an interval from this property
 
6:27 PM
Thank you.
And vanishing outside this interval means that all values that are outside this interval become 0?
Let us say that the interval is [0, 3]. Outside of this the function will just be 0? Or undefined?
 
7:06 PM
Just 0
 
7:25 PM
If i want to construct a sequence of sets such that the first set lets call $A_0$ is the Naturals without the zero and the next set $A_1$ is the naturals without zero and one and the the next set $A_2$ is the naturals without 0 1 and 2 and so on and so forth, how would i write the discrebtion for it mathematically correct (the part with the removing elements like a premutation?) i cant figure it out! thanks!
 
Are you in a rush?^
 
kinda lol !!
 
Nothing to do with a permutation, @MadSpace. You're setting $A_k = \Bbb N - \{0,1,\dots,k\}$, or $[k+1,\infty)\cap\Bbb N$.
 
Hi @Alessandro
 
7:35 PM
After a long period of procrastination I officially started writing my master thesis today!
 
LOL, I'm sure you'll manage to procrastinate some more.
 
Well the other option was to study for an exam I'll have in March so I can still count it as procrastination technically
 
You bend your definitions, anyhow, like any good logician.
 
@TedShifrin Oh! its that simple? i was thinking of substracting the identity permutation! well ok then!! lol!
ThankS!
 
@AlessandroCodenotti What's it generally going to be about?
 
7:38 PM
Where are you getting permutations? You can't subtract a function from a set!
 
@geocalc33 Asymptotic dimension of metric spaces very generally
 
Yes i know! i meant the outcomes!
 
Blah.
So then you remove the whole set from the set and you have nothing.
 
Well i was thinking more elegantly. Sadly it is oft to see that elegant thinking leads to bullshit xD
 
When you're sloppy, yeah.
I wouldn't call it elegant yet.
 
7:51 PM
@AlessandroCodenotti So when Kolmogorov writes: "Let K be the set of all finite (compact supported) functions $\phi$ from the real line into the real line such that they are continuously differentiable i.e. infinitely many time differentiable." It means in modern language that the functions are smooth and finite meaning compact support i.e. the support is $supp(f) = \{ x \in X : f(x) \neq 0 \}$ a compact subset of a topological space $X$ where in this case $X = \mathbb{R}$. And according to wiki
such functions are called bump functions. But how does compact support lead to the function vanishing outside some interval?
I know that compact in metric spaces is equivalent to closed and totally bounded. In particular for $\mathbb{R}^n$ this means closed and bounded.
 
Every bounded set in $\Bbb R$ is contained in an interval
In particular the support of such a function
 
ah I see and then outside it the values are 0
thanks
 
@TedShifrin The flat torus is a torus with the metric inherited from its representation as the quotient, $\Bbb R^2 /L,$ where $L$ is a discrete subgroup of $R^2$ isomorphic to $Z^2$. This gives the quotient the structure of a Riemannian manifold. Right?
 
With the usual flat metric on $\Bbb R^2$, yup.
 
8:03 PM
Well that's why you were telling me that I needed something like this to get well-definedness for my vector field pushforward question
Just realized that lol
 
Oh, right, yes.
You need $\pi_{*a} v(a) = \pi_{*(a+\lambda)} v(a+\lambda)$ for every $\lambda\in\Lambda$.
 
hi @TedShifrin
what do singularities of complex plane curves look like?
 
@TedShifrin sorry, can you write out what that means (in words), I just began learning this stuff
Is that "the pushforward of the vector field evaluated at a point $a$ equals the pushforward of the vector field evaluated at the point $p+\lambda$ for some constant $\lambda$?"
 
8:34 PM
Hi chat!
quick silly question
we have $|xy| \leq a, |G| \leq b$
then how
$|1 + xy G| \geq (1-ab)$
 
@geocalc: Yes, as you're trying to define the vector field downstairs at $\pi(a) = \pi(a+\lambda)$.
 
$Df(\chi)(g \cdot f) = Df(\chi)(g) \cdot h(p) + Df(\chi)(h) \cdot g(p)$
 
8:49 PM
@Baymax: You need to now the reverse triangle inequality.
@JoeShmo: You have a typo. But what is the context?
 
Does that look right? Because I'm getting $Df(\chi)(g \cdot f) = Df(\chi)(g) \cdot h(f(p)) + Df(\chi)(h) \cdot g(f(p))$
differential topology I guess, $\chi$ here is a law of differentiation, $f: M^n \rightarrow N^n$
 
$|x-y| \ge \big||x| - |y|\big|$; similarly, $|x+y|\ge \big||x|-|y|\big|$. @Baymax
 
$p \in M^n$
 
First, you need an $h$ on the LHS, JoeShmo. Second
What is a "law of differentiation"? You mean a tangent vector to $M$ at $p$?
 
yeah
yes
 
8:52 PM
So, yes, it's just the product rule.
 
why are there two $f$s
 
let's see, I'm getting an extra $g(f(p))$
 
You should be writing $Df(\chi)(g)(f(p))$. $g$ and $h$ are functions on $N$.
Typo, Leaky.
 
@TedShifrin did you see my question?
 
oh yes..
$Df: T_p M \rightarrow T_{f(p)} N$
 
8:56 PM
That's an involved question. Double points (nodes), triple points, cusps, tacnodes, etc. Being over $\Bbb C$ doesn't matter much except that you can draw pictures.
 
hence $Df(\chi) \in T_{f(p)} N$
 
@TedShifrin and those are just the named singularities
 
Well, there are local normal forms ...
 
what are those?
 
You can make local (analytic) changes of coordinates to get nice equations.
For example, $y^2=x^2+x^3$ looks locally like $y^2=x^2$ at the origin.
 
8:58 PM
yeah and I'm wondering how many normal forms are there
as in, what is an explicit set of complete and mutually-inequivalent normal forms?
 
Infinitely many if degree is unbounded.
 
"how many" as in classify
 
You should look at some classic books.
Walker is one. Griffiths Introduction to Algebraic Curves is another.
 
and is it related to knot theory?
 
The link of a singularity is a knot, but the techniques are very different.
 
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