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00:03
$\newcommand{Hom}{\operatorname{Hom}}$$\Hom(\Bbb Z_p, S^1) = \Hom(\varprojlim \Bbb Z/p^n\Bbb Z, S^1) = \varinjlim \Hom(\Bbb Z/p^n\Bbb Z, S^1) = \varinjlim \Hom(\Bbb Z/p^n\Bbb Z, S^1) = \varinjlim \Bbb Z/p^n\Bbb Z = \Bbb Z\left[\frac1p\right]$
00:36
Whoa! :D
Math is beautiful
I need to understand inverse and direct limits more myself, before I can tackle those equalities
@LeakyNun I think there's a repeated object there 2nd & 3rd from last
01:35
$\Hom(\Bbb Z_p, S^1) = \Hom(\varprojlim \Bbb Z/p^n\Bbb Z, S^1) = \varinjlim \Hom(\Bbb Z/p^n\Bbb Z, S^1) = \varinjlim \Bbb Z/p^n\Bbb Z = \Bbb Z\left[\frac1p\right]$
 
6 hours later…
07:56
Morning all
08:09
morning
08:54
Greeting! o/
0
Q: Learning Math as a Med student (Self-Learning Undergraduate Mathematics).

paracetamolI'd like to learn mathematics at a (semi-?)professional level. I'm a studying Undergrad Medicine in South Asia. I'm looking to build up on my understanding of mathematics from scratch. This is to help me better comprehend the Physics and Chemistry that makes up much of Medicine (besides, I've t...

Would appreciate it if you guys could give this a look O:-)
morning
09:40
Lets say I have a group $G$ acting on $\mathbb{R}^2$ so that the orbit space $G \backslash \mathbb{R}^2$ is compact. Clearly, I can find an element $g \in G$ that acts nontrivially on $\mathbb{R}^2$. But can I also find an element that acts nontrivially in each component?
09:53
@abenthy what is a component?
10:40
Geometry: Let R, then for all points a,b in S, aRb such that
For any R', there exists some T such that RTR'
In other words, geometry is relation plus the existence of a transformation such that the relation is preserved under it
10:53
Hi chat
If I have vector space of polynomials is inner product for this vector space always defined as $\langle f , g \rangle = \int_a^b f(x)g(x) dx$ ?
There are many types of inner products, some of these may have a weighting function $w(x)$ in them
and some may have different limits of integration
I have vector space of consisting of these "tentfunctions" $$ e_i(x) = \begin{cases}
\frac{x-x_{i-1}}{h}, & x \in [x_{i-1},x_i] \\
\frac{x_{i+1}-x}{h}, & x \in [x_i,x_{i+1}] \\
0 & \text{otherwise}
\end{cases}. $$ where $V_d = span(e_1,\dots,e_n)$
Then I have function $f(x)=-x^2+1$, then I need to project this to subspace $V_d$
Using tent functions as basis vectors
Example using two tent functions as basis $$ \text{proj}_{V_d}=\frac{ \langle f , e_1 \rangle }{\langle e_1, e_1 \rangle} e_1 + \frac{ \langle f, e_2 \rangle }{\langle e_2 , e_2 \rangle}e_2 $$
I need to somehow compute these inner products but Im not sure how the inner product is defined in this case?
The excercise one before this was show that $\langle f , g \rangle := \int_a^b f(x)g(x) dx$ is inner product
Yes probably should use this
11:24
Each of these inner products should consist of two integrals since tent function isn't continuous right?
11:44
how are tent functions not continuous? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_function
yeah, I think the projection is basically $\sum_{i=1}^n\frac{\langle f, e_i\rangle}{\langle e_i, e_i\rangle}e_i$ because all tent functions are pairwise orthogonal in the above definition
Well I mean it has point where derivative isn't defined
doesn't mean it isn't continuous though
but how does integrating from $\int_{x_{i-1}}^{x_{i+1}} f(x)e_i(x) dx $ work exactly?
tent function is defined in parts
which means I need to split the integral into parts too?
yeah, the ascending half and the descending half, it's like computing areas
$$ \langle f , e_i \rangle = \int_{x_{i-1}}^{x_i} f(x)e_i(x) dx +\int_{x_i}^{x_{i+1}} f(x)e_i(x) dx $$ like this?
yup I will do it that way
right right
11:54
for orthogonal basis, inner product basically measures how much two functions overlap
thus $\langle f, e_i\rangle$ is the contribution of the ith basis element in $f$
12:16
Hello. I am pretty much confused with the concept of geometric interpretation of gradient, whether it points to normal of the surface and to the direction of steepest accent, throughout the internet I am getting both view?
@AjayMishra what you mean by "it points to normal of the surface" exactly?
Actually, In today class, my math prof told me that gradient points to the normal of the surface, but I had read earlier thing like gradient descent, which assumes that gradient points to the direction of steepest accent, how this descrepancy can be resolved. I told my prof that about this but he seems to not even heard of this idea of gradient pointing to the direction of steepest accent. What to do?
Gradient always point to the direction of steepest descent, which is always normal to the level curves or surface at that point
@Tuki "Gradient vector is the scalar multiple of normal vector"
@Secret I know that, how to convince the prof? :)
hmm is gradient vector scalar multiple of normal vector?
12:21
He is perfectly fine with $ \nabla f = f_x \hat i + f_y \hat j $
Draw a 2D picture of a countour map, map some arrows for your gradient, note those arrows always make 90 deg angles to the curves
@Tuki May be in some cases.
yes might be but it sounds to me that this isnt the case in most of the cases
@Secret Yes to the contour lines but not surface right?
12:24
The level surfaces are for the function f(x,y,z), the gradients are always perpendicular to the level surfaces in the same manner as it is perpendicular to the level curves for a function f(x,y)
So gradient is normal to level surface
yup
The term level surface wasn't just clear to me which caused the confusion
it's basically a 3D version of a level curve
Please wait, lemme finish :) .
12:27
had we can see 4 spatial dimensions, we would have recognise they are analogous concepts
He is perfectly fine with the idea that $ \nabla f = f_x \hat i + f_y \hat j $ , but for this case If I say what is the interpretation, he replied that there are no interpretation and you cannot plot that. Now If I bring $z$ into the picture like $ z = f(x,y) $ and
say him to compute the gradient he do like that : $z - f(x,y) = g(x,y,z)$ and then compute the gradient, like $ f_x \hat i + f_y \hat k + f_z \hat k $ and if I ask him to prove this, he show me the equation of tangent plane, where indeed the normal vector is that gradient
@Tuki So Can you please give me the conclusion in one message?
Well, what your professor did there is expressing z=f(x,y) as a function of three variables, thus pulling the 2D function into 3D. The normal vectors thus show the gradient of that 3D function
Okay, what about my view?
in particular, you should find, other than the z component (which should become -1 or 1, I forgot which) of the normal vector for the surface 0=f(x,y) is identical to the gradient you calculate in the 2D case
and these normal vectors are indeed pointing to the direction of steepest descent of each of these functions, as one can check using the proof I linked earlier
To see this geometrically, find two level surfaces, say 0=g(x,y,z) and 1=g(x,y,z). The normal vector at 0=g(x,y,z) tells you which direction you should travel to 1=g(x,y,z) in order to maximise the change in the function value g(x,y,z)
@Secret how you can prove that?
12:37
this
all gradients are perpendicular to the tangents to the level surfaces
Not that, this
The normal vector at 0=g(x,y,z) tells you which direction you should travel to 1=g(x,y,z) in order to maximise the change in the function value g(x,y,z)
2) What is difference between plot of 2D function and the plot of level surface like $f(x,y,z) = c$
$g(\mathbf{x})-g(\mathbf{x}_0)$ is maximised if $\frac{d}{d\mathbf{x}}(g(\mathbf{x})-g(\mathbf{x}_0))=0$,
Using the chain rule this becomes:
$\frac{d}{d\mathbf{x}}(g(\mathbf{x})-g(\mathbf{x}_0))=\frac{d}{d\mathbf{x}}g(\mathbf{x})-\frac{d}{d\mathbf{x}}g(\mathbf{x}_0))=$
$\frac{d}{d\mathbf{x}}g(\mathbf{x})-\mathbf{0}=$
$(\frac{d\mathbf{x}}{dx}\frac{d}{dx}+\frac{d\mathbf{x}}{dy}\frac{d}{dy}+\frac{d\mathbf{x}}{dz}\frac{d}{dz})g(\mathbf{x})=$
when i write my projection open it becomse something like this
$$
\text{proj}_{V_d}(f) = \left (\frac{\int_{-\frac{1}{3}}^{0}(-x^2+1)(3x+1)dx}{\int_{-\frac{1}{3}}^{0}(3x+1)^2dx } \right)(3x+1)
+ \left(\frac{\int_{0}^{\frac{1}{3}} (-x^2+1)(1-3x)dx }{\int_{0}^{\frac{1}{3}} (1-3x)^2dx } \right) (1-3x)
$$
$$
+ \left (\frac{\int_{0}^{\frac{1}{3}}(-x^2+1)(3x)dx}{\int_{0}^{\frac{1}{3}}(3x)^2dx } \right)(3x) +
\left (\frac{\int_{\frac{1}{3}}^{\frac{2}{3}}(-x^2+1)(2-3x)dx}{\int_{\frac{1}{3}}^{\frac{2}{3}}(2-3x)^2dx } \right)(2-3x)
$$
$(\frac{d\mathbf{x}}{dx},\frac{d\mathbf{x}}{dy},\frac{d\mathbf{x}}{dz}) \cdot (\frac{dg}{dx},\frac{dg}{dy},\frac{dg}{dz})=$
any idea what that doesn't render?
there we go
12:53
ok nvm, I screwed up the chain rule
But the basic idea is the same. You try to maximise a scalar function. A scalar function is maximum at the stationary points, thus its derivative there is zero. Compute and then expand the algebra, you recover the relation that the gradient is normal to the tangent vectors hence the level surfaces, thus proving what I said about the level surfaces
@Tuki looks fine
Any idea how I can compute something like this easily?
You can probably use as many basis vectors as you wish
but computing them by hand is impossible
uh, those integrals are quite easy to compute, I don't think there is any shortcut
yes they are easy indeed
you could write script for something like this
$(\frac{d x}{d\mathbf{x}}\frac{d}{dx}+\frac{d y}{d\mathbf{x}}\frac{d}{dy}+\frac{d z}{d\mathbf{x}}\frac{d}{dz})g(\mathbf{x})=$
$(\frac{d x}{d\mathbf{x}},\frac{d y}{d\mathbf{x}},\frac{d z}{d\mathbf{x}})\cdot (\frac{d g}{dx},\frac{d g}{dy},\frac{d g}{dz})=$
$\begin{pmatrix} 1 & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1\end{pmatrix} \nabla g =0$
13:24
O great, I am writing strange forms of 0=0 again
This always happens whenever I tried to prove something I forgot how to prove
14:02
@Secret rofl
14:33
@LeakyNun I think you want to say Z[1/p]/Z there
The set of p-torsion in the circle
14:57
Consider the group of automorphisms on manifold embedding
ie for some embedding $X : \Sigma \to M$, $X \in \text{Emb}(\Sigma, M)$, consider the automorphism group $\text{Aut}(\text{Emb}(\Sigma, M))$
Are there any other transformations outside of diffeomorphisms on $\Sigma$ and $M$?
15:13
Hello, I'm sure at least one of you is familiar with the Vandermonde determinant/matrix
I'm looking at something that's almost the same and I'm trying to figure out what my options in terms of writing something as a determinant
What I have is the expression $\prod_1^N \prod_{j\neq i} (\lambda_i - \lambda_j+ic)$
The expansion for low $N$ appears to be related to the symmetric polynomials, but I have two indices instead of 1 and so far my research has not been conclusive as to whether this can be written as a determinant
The dream is that this can be written as a single $\operatorname{det}$, but I don't think it's possible :-(
The context allows me to go to $((\lambda_i - \lambda_j)^2+c^2)$, so if I could write this as a det instead that would also be nice
I've also skimmed through the Krattenthaler techniques to write it as a determinant but to no avail
Wait I'm stupid, 2.10 from Krattenthaler gives precisely the answer
@Slereah what does an automorphism mean here
15:32
An excellent question
I'm trying to find the possible transformations of an extended object in physics, so all transformations of a submanifold to a submanifold of the same topology
But I'm not 100% sure what the reasonable restrictions on such things should be
Can I transform the path of a point-particle into an extendible curve???
Really unsure what the last sentence means
I mean in the case of point particles, I guess the expectation is that the transformations on a point particle as an embedding in spacetime should have the same set as the transformation as a point particle as an $\mathbb{R}^3$ bundle over $\mathbb{R}$
Sorry, I really don't understand what that means, and if I did I would be skeptical because you have an extra degree of freedom in the latter case
shouldnt hte sapce of embeddings be infinite dimensional? do you want "automorphisms of an embedding $X$" or "automorphisms of the space of embeddings"?
It sounds like the latter
15:37
@MikeMiller Well consider the curve $\gamma = \{ (x, 0, 0, 0) | x \in \mathbb{R}\}$ versus the curve $\gamma = \{ (x, 0, 0, 0) | x < 0 \}$
You can easily transform one in the other but I'm not sure that's a physically reasonable transformation to make
How could you possibly transform one into the other? One is a closed set and the other is not
The most natural geometric construction that produces automorphisms of the space of embeddings is pre- and post-composing with diffeomorphisms; that is, Diff(M) acts on Emb(M, N) on the right and Diff(N) acts on the left, $$(g \cdot i \cdot f)(m) = g(i(f(m))$$
Yeah that is what I suspected
Was wondering if there were possibly larger transformations to consider
There are surely many many many more homeomorphisms of Emb(M,N) but these are the ones that come automatically from the geometry of the manifolds
There is no way to trace out your second curve so that the two are equivalent under one of these motions
The action of Diff(-) preserves closedness of sets
Alright
Not 100% sure I want all possible embeddings though because some are probably not reasonable
ie just having curves switching time orientation in a Lorentzian manifold or stuff like that
Hopefully those can be ignored on account of not beying symmetry of the action functional
Well if you have some extra structure that your embeddings are supposed to preserve then you won't be using the entire diffeomorphism group
For instance if you're trying to preserve timelike curves you should work with diffeomorphisms that send light-cones into light-cones
But I have no idea what you're trying to do so it's hard for me to give any guidance
15:47
Just trying to find some general notion of the transformation of a physical system
Not easy because you basically have the fields and extended objects at least to contend with
And transformations don't seem to quite work out the same on both of them
Fields seem to have a pretty good theory for this already but extended objects not so much
I'm guessing those diffeomorphisms can't map two curves which aren't homotopic?
16:07
@Slereah It's hard to say what I'd suggest, to a large degree you'd be better off trying to do the math here if you had some background in diffeomorphism groups --- your question is something I'd hope you could resolve by thinking about the circle or surfaces
GL_2(Z) acts on the torus by diffeomorphisms (act on R^2 and descend to R^2/Z^2), and the action of A in GL_2(Z) on pi_1 = Z^2 is what you think it is
In other words, there's a diffeomorphism taking some homotopy classes to others, but not all --- the null curve cannot be taken by a diffeomorphism to (1,0)
Nor can (1,0) be taken by a diffeomorphism to (2,0)
16:19
Hi. What does PSD mean in the context of a spectogram? I'm using a library that computes a spectogram for me, but it has several "modes", default one being PSD. From what I understand these modes refer to some sort of functions that modify the result from the short-time fourier transform before being returned.
Other modes are "complex", "magnitude", "angle", and "phase". Does anyone know what PSD means and could explain it in a simple manner? Ultimately, all I'd like to know is which mode I should use in order to extract note data from audio files.
17:23
@Cosinux power spectral density? I'm just guessing based on google tho
there's really no replacement for your library's documentation
You're right, that might be it. I've noticed that term now, but wasn't sure.
17:45
@user170039 hey, it's been a while since I've been busy, but it's finally up, with part 2 being in the works: wlou.blog/2019/09/02/…
17:58
@MatheinBoulomenos hier?
@LeakyNun ja
@MatheinBoulomenos if X=Spec(A) then O_X is an acyclic O_X-module?
@LeakyNun yes, by Serre vanishing
is it hard?
not something I'd come up with a proof by myself
 
1 hour later…
19:28
How do I know if my projection is orthogonal?
I have a polynomial projected onto some other vector space
@Tuki: A polynomial won't tell you anything. You need to know the kernel (nullspace) of the projection is orthogonal to the image (the subspace onto which you're projecting).
I have inner product defined as $\langle f ,g \rangle := \int_a^b f(x)g(x)dx$
hmm okey
Or if you have a matrix representation with respect to an orthonormal basis, you can check to see if the matrix is symmetric.
I'm using "tent function" as orthogonal basis $$ e_i(x) = \begin{cases}
\frac{x-x_{i-1}}{h}, & x \in [x_{i-1},x_i] \\
\frac{x_{i+1}-x}{h}, & x \in [x_i,x_{i+1}] \\
0 & \text{otherwise}
\end{cases}. $$
this is what I'm trying to project $f(x) = -x^2+1$
Project onto what?
Are the $x_i$ all evenly spaced, I assume?
19:38
to subspace formed by these tent functions
yes $x_i$ are evenly spaced
So we've talked about this before a few times. If you have an orthogonal basis for your subspace, you project onto the subspace by taking the sum of the individual projections onto those basis vectors.
You use the inner product to compute these projections, of course.
yes
I don't know how many $i$s there are. This is likely to be a computational mess.
I computed the projection by hand using only two basis vectors
for $e_1,e_2$
You told me the subspace was "formed by these tent functions." Be very specific.
How many $i$, where are $a$ and $b$, etc.?
19:41
my subspace is $V_d=span(e_1,e_2,\dots,e_n)$
$n\in \mathbb{N}$
It's bit of a mess
And what are $x_i$, $a$, $b$? So $n$ can be an arbitrary integer. This is a huge mess.
But you only have to do the computation for $i$ fixed and then write a sum.
My vector space is $\mathcal{F}([a,b],\mathbb{R})$ where $V_d$ is subspace of this
I assume $x_0 = a$ and $x_{n+1} = b$.
You're still not answering my questions.
and $[a,b] \subset \mathbb{R}$
$\subset$ not $\in$
Of course.
19:44
yes sorry about that
These are not orthogonal functions.
hi @Mathein
well if basis vectors in this projection aren't orthogonal then the projection shouldn't be orthogonal either
That is wrong.
my advisor recommended that I apply to a conference at Oberwolfach aimed at junior researches and non-specialists
19:49
The orthogonal projection on the subspace is the orthogonal projection on the subspace.
That's exciting, @Mathein.
@TedShifrin yes, I wonder if I get accepted without any publications
I have no knowledge. Is your adviser suggesting you try to give a 10- or 15-minute talk? You can write an abstract on work in progress without having a publication.
I assume he would write a note of support.
you have to volunteer for talks if you want to apply (but not necessarily actually give a talk, just be able to give one in theory)
You lose nothing by applying.
19:52
And get an email or letter of support from your adviser.
yes, will do. Thanks for the help
Can I list conferences in the CV where I just listened, without giving a talk or poster presentation or anything?
it looks better than nothing I guess
Yes.
Just put Conferences Attended (as opposed to listing talks given).
Something related to my problem I think math.stackexchange.com/questions/1244272/…
I don't see how it's related, @Tuki.
If you draw pictures, you can see that $e_i$ and $e_j$ are orthogonal if and only if $|i-j|\ge 2$.
You still never told me what $a$ and $b$ are, how the $x_i$ are related. It's annoying.
should I include my personal blog in the CV?
19:57
I can try to explain
You mean the URL, @Mathein? Sure.
With a one-sentence summary of its contents :)
yeah the URL. The whole contents would be a bit excessive, lol
that's a good idea, thanks
We have a interval $[a,b]$ which is divided into $h$-length segments, which we have total of $n-1$ and which "border points" form set $ \{x_1,\dots,x_n\}$
so $x_i$:s are the points which divide interval $[a,b]$ into these length-h segments
There are a lot of things which are defined which make this a big mess when I'm trying ask something
It would be great to just show the whole paper but unfortunately it's in different language
When these are plotted, it should look something like this
each grid is 1/3 by 1/3
a = 0, b = 1
20:21
hi @Semiclassical
 
1 hour later…
21:31
Can one consider that the infimum of the power set of any set X to be the empty set? (with the normal inclusion order)
Bob
Bob
22:14
That sounds right to me
22:59
@MadSpaceMemer it is actually the empty set
Is $SO(n)$ homeomorphic to $\Bbb{R}P^n$?
23:24
Find all $a, b, c, d \in \Bbb Z$ s.t. $(a,b,c)$ and $(b,c,d)$ are Pythagorean triples
lolol
Bob
Bob
23:41
is this problem useful?
it's useful in the sense that I use them for fun/self-harm
@user193319 the Lie algebra of $SO(n)$ is the skew-symmetric matrices ($A+A^T=0 \implies e^A (e^A)^T = I$) with trace zero ($\det(e^A) = e^{\operatorname{tr}(A)}$) (but trace zero is redundant), so the dimension is $\frac12n(n-1)$
yet the dimension of $\Bbb{RP}^n$ is, you've guessed it, $n$
@LeakyNun I'm not sure I follow. What is the relevance of looking at the Lie Algebras? $\Bbb{RP}^n$ isn't a Lie group, so it doesn't have an associated Lie algebra.
SO(n) is a Lie group
its dimension (as a manifold) is the same as the dimension (as a vector space) of the Lie algebra
Oh, very interesting.
23:51
that is because exp is a homeomorphism near the identity
Oh, I haven't learned this yet. Very beautiful.
Is there any simple argument to show that $SO(n)$ is path-connected? I'm trying to prove this show that I can show that $\det^{-1}(0,\infty)$ is path-connected.
@ÍgjøgnumMeg I think you can reduce that to $x^4-y^4=z^2$ which you can solve by descent
@Mathein orly
$a^2+b^2=c^2$ and $b^2+c^2=d^2$ implies that $c^4-b^4=(c^2+b^2)(c^2-b^2)=(ad)^2$
hahahahahahaha
brilliant

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