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12:02 AM
@PMM apply a reflection along the y-axis if you want your orientations to agree.
 
PMM
@PVAL-inactive Wait, first can I clarify something. Is $\{ (x, y) ; -1\leq y\leq 0 \}$ open in $H^2$? So that plus the map $f(a,b) = (\sin a, \cos a, b)$ is enough for a chart?
 
That set isn't in H^2
H^2 is y\geq 0
 
PMM
Sorry we are using different conventions.
I mean bottom half plane by $H^2$
But is the set open in the bottom half plane? It's not right?
 
then no
 
PMM
So what did you mean by us the same chart?
 
12:08 AM
I meant the same map $(\theta,z) \mapsto (cos(\theta),sin(\theta),z)$
or whichever trig functions you chose.
 
PMM
Yes, but then what open sets in $H^2$ do you use with that map?
That was my problem
 
You can use the four you use
You just have to precompose with a reflection across the y-axis, if you want the orientations to agree.
So the transition functions become $(\theta , z) \mapsto (-\theta, -z-1)$.
instead of $(\theta, z) \mapsto (\theta, -z-1)$
I mean z axis
if my coordinates in R^2/H^2 are (\theta ,z)
 
PMM
You lost me. So what are the charts supposed to look like?
 
In the imgur link
if you replace two of the h_i's with themselves precomposed with a reflection your golden.
 
PMM
In the z-axis?
 
12:15 AM
i.e if $h_i(\theta, \phi)= (sin(-\theta),cos(-\theta),\phi))$ for i=1 or i=3
There's really only one axis you can reflect along that stays in H^2
 
PMM
OK, so that changes nothing in terms of covers, so I should be fine there, but then it should help with the transition functions, right?
 
PMM
OK, I see it now. One last thing. Was this the easiest cover? Or were you alluding to something easier?
Before, I mean
 
This is essentially what I was alluding to.
 
PMM
OK, you have been such great help. Thanks a lot.
 
12:35 AM
hi @MatheinBoulomenos are you here ?
 
1:05 AM
hm
I would like to discuss the intuition of order of vanishing of a function along a variety
any takers ?
 
nope, sorry... sheaves scare me
 
okay :P they shouldn't be scary
sheaves are actually like humans
i.e, humans take local information and we use homological algebra to get global informations sheaves are the same thing @XanderHenderson
 
1:20 AM
"homological algebra" scares me
WHERE IS THE EPSILON?!
it isn't math without epsilon!
 
I like all analysis/geometry/and algebra :P
 
that being said, I am working on a paper, and fear that I might have to read up on algebraic geometry a bit to figure out how you folk define the term "dimension"
@Adeek I'm too old to learn new tricks
homological algebra will always and forever remain dark voodoo magic to me
you youngin's can figure it out
 
learning is nice @XanderHenderson
 
if I can learn everything and have 200 years to live I would :D
 
1:24 AM
I think that you are taking me seriously
you shouldn't do that
 
no I am not :P
 
ah
okay
text sucks :)
 
anyway I am gonna go back to work cya l8er :P
yeah
 
1:53 AM
@XanderHenderson I keep trying to ditch the epsilons and they keep coming back
I think my continually taking analysis courses might be went but still
I should just change my major from math to Homological algebra
 
2:47 AM
homological algebra is a form of devil worship created by Grotendick (or however the hell you spell that man's name)
 
hahaahah
 
that being said, my advisor is under the delusional notion that there should be a form of fractal cohomology
which would be some kind of graded group or ring
 
grothendieck* fwiw
 
but instead of integer grading, we should have real grading
fml
 
that sounds pretty cool
your advisor is lapidus?
@XanderHenderson I actually encountered you at the Cornell fractals conference, if I'm not mistaken.
 
2:53 AM
really?
I was there!
 
this past summer.
I kid you not, I recognized you by your avatar on here.
 
but I am terribly bad with names and faces
and yes, my advisor is Lapidus
 
We didn't speak, I don't think. I was actually just in town to see a friend, but I snuck in :P
 
as to the avatar, HA!
 
Each day hahaha
 
2:54 AM
it is pretty good, no?
 
Morning everyone
 
The avatar is spot on hahaha. I immediately knew, somehow.
hi @Faust
 
and now I need to read to my daughter
g'night, all
 
see you @XanderHenderson
 
3:09 AM
can some one help i am trying to learn polynomial long division but i don't understand the calculations going on in these workings: i.imgur.com/wh8KJHz.png why isn't it -x-3 after applying x to cancel x^2
im also not sure i understand where the -9 came from
 
why isnt it $2x^2$?
@WDUK
 
? because there is no 2x^2 ?
not sure i understand your question
oh do you mean when adding the two lines together
 
well how come $x^2 -x^2 =0 $ but $0-(-3x) =-3x$
 
oh actually thats just explained why its 3x
ok i understand why its 3x now
 
that was the point
^^ good
 
3:17 AM
so why do they use +3 though
for the final term of the quotient
 
same reason they used +x for the first term
u need to subtact 3x
 
but isnt that 3x-3 - (3x+3) so i get -6
 
if you used -3 then you would subtract (-x)
(x-3) (+3) = 3x-9
so your subtracting 3x-9
so your subtracting 3x and adding 9
 
ohh okay i get it now
 
its a weird way to write things but it actually makes sense once your used to it.
 
Jan
3:20 AM
Hi it may sound weird but I wanna ask about when I have to fix matrix for calculating equation
 
then ask
 
Jan
Like in the example for matrix differentiation: $0 &= \frac{d}{dH_{kj}}[\sum_{ij} (-V_{ij} \sum_{k} \pi_{ijk} log \frac{W_{ik}H_{kj}}{\pi_{ijk}} + \sum_{k}W_{ik}H_{kj})$
after this, it said "for fixed k,j" and then moved on to do differentiation
I want to know how do I know I have to do "fixed k, j"
 
you have a latex error in there it looks like gibberish
 
Jan
ok let me fix a moment
$0 = \frac{d}{dH_{kj}}[\sum_{ij} (-V_{ij} \sum_{k} \pi_{ijk} log \frac{W_{ik}H_{kj}}{\pi_{ijk}} + \sum_{k}W_{ik}H_{kj})]$
 
it seems to be just saying for an individual term they are doing term by term differentiation
btw that looks as bad as a christaweful symbol so congrats
 
Jan
3:28 AM
sry what is christaweful symbol?
 
its just a really nasty thing to calculate involving matrix's and lots of derivatives, they are nicknames christaweful symbols for being so terrible to compute
 
Jan
oh ok lol
 
it looks like you just do it for each term of the matrix and sum them together on term at a time
 
Jan
for the term by term differentiation, how do I know which dimension I have to fix to go on?
 
you appear to be counting up the k
so set k =i do that one k=j do that one
unless i am completely misunderstanding the context
 
Jan
3:37 AM
ah I think I get it now
thanks a lot
 
out of curiosity where did you find that abomination?
 
Jan
You mean this example?
 
yea
 
Jan
Kullback–Leibler divergence
 
looks like something from a dif geo book with a log in it
 
3:42 AM
@Faust christoffel symbols arent bad tho
 
ok, take the mobius strip
calculate the gaussian curvature for it
then tell me they arent bad.
 
ive computed way more complicated christoffel symbols than for a mobius strip
 
well it took me 12 pages
was fking terribru
 
i definitely think it can be done in way less
 
my prof thought it was reasonable too when he put in on our hw assingment
until he put it into his computer and asked it to calculate it a couple hours before it was due and the computer was still running it when he got to class
i was the only person in the class who actually finished the question
 
3:46 AM
you just have to make good choices to save time
 
i write big admittedly
i used a decent number of half angle identies
 
that's the point of christoffel symbols, you can choose appropriate coordinates to make them nice
they'll always be bad on some level i guess, even for simple things
 
i agree but there wasnt very good options for it at least not that i could find
 
ellipsoids suck for ex
but i would never call the christoffel symbols bad, they're an important tool and i dont try to avoid them
 
oh agree they are an amazing tool
but i hadnt done math in 4 years and was an 2nd year undergrad when i took the class
i still have nightmares about them
just being able to read what the notation actually said took me like days...
 
3:50 AM
fair they're not easy to deal with
 
very intresting topic area though once i more equipped to handle it im going to go back n kick the shit outa dif geo :p
defiantly the most interesting class i have ever taken or sat in on
 
diff geo is my favorite subject (and i have a soft spot for classical diff geo especially) so cheers to that
 
is dif topology similarly interesting?
 
very different but still high quality i think
 
ic ill look forward to that as well then =)
 
3:55 AM
I have come to the conclusion recently that I need to learn more differential geometry :\
the "distance zeta function", an object that is of interest to we fractal geometry-type people, supposedly picks up on thing that are of interest to diff geo-type people, such as some strange thing called "curvature"
who'd'a thunk that fractals had curvature?
 
why are there so many different zeta functions
 
@XanderHenderson runs away
 
@XanderHenderson nice
My hope is one day learn all geometry
 
yo @Daminark remember to hmu w that hyperbolic geo tmr
 
4:11 AM
Tru dat
 
ill meet you at 308 for the handoff
 
Will do
 
do you guys know each other ?
sme uni ?
 
@EricSilva If it helps any, the Riemann zeta function is a special case of the distance zeta function
 
yeah
 
4:18 AM
which is the same as the tube zeta function (up to the addition of an entire function)
 
@XanderHenderson it would help if i knew what the distance zeta function is
 
and which is off from the geometric zeta function by a constant
@EricSilva Roughly speaking, if $A$ is a bounded subset of $\mathbb{R}^n$, then the distance zeta function associated to $A$ is defined by the integral $$ \zeta_A(s) := \int_{A_{\delta}} d(x,A)^{s-n}\,\mathrm{d}x $$
 
hmmk
the name seems appropriate i guess
 
where $A_\delta$ is the delta neighborhood of $A$, given by $A_{\delta} := \{ x : d(x,A) \le \delta \}$.
it looks like this function depends on $\delta$, but this dependence is utterly meanlingless
SO THERE!
 
i believe you
 
4:22 AM
heh
it turns out that if the upper Minkowski dimension of $A$ is $D$ and the lower Minkowski content of $A$ is positive, then $\zeta_A(s)$ has a singularity at $D$
otherwise, it converges on the right-half plane $\{ \Re(s) > D \}$
and if $\zeta_A$ can be extended to a function that is meromorphic on a strictly larger domain, we refer to the poles (and maybe other singularities?) as the complex dimensions of $A$
w00t
 
what makes it a generalization of riemann-zeta
 
it isn't a generalization of the Riemann zeta, exactly
but there are subsets of $\mathbb{R}$ that possess the zeroes of the Riemann zeta function as complex dimensions
or, rather... strike that
the Riemann zeta function can be recovered as the zeta function corresponding to certain subsets of $\mathbb{R}$
I'm being dyslexic... zeroes and singularities are not the same thing :)
BUT THEY ARE ALL FACTORS!
 
lol ok
 
something something Riemann sphere something something something
 
5:21 AM
@XanderHenderson "if you can read this I'm never going to give you up I'm never...lost interest after that"
 
 
3 hours later…
7:58 AM
How do I solve this problem? help pls math.stackexchange.com/questions/2607375/…
 
@Annelise this is something that you want to think about geometrically. You draw a disk around the origin and take some point outside of it. The closest you'll get is by drawing a line from the point to the origin and finding where it intersects the disk
Now, to formally prove that you can probably make some kind of convexity/symmetry argument?
Like, assume you have some $y\in S$ such that $y \ne tx$
Reflect that point across the line $tx$, draw a line segment there, intersect that line segment with the line $tx$, and the point of intersection should be closer to $x$ than $y$
 
8:32 AM
@Daminark You? Geometry? What is this black magic?
3
 
Desparate times call for desperate measures
Ideally Borel measures but we can do without if necessary
 
good joke
 
:D
 
9:34 AM
sees @Mathein
Crap.. Uh.. I can explain, I know I... sweat talked about geometry for a second there
It was a prank I swear
 
Daminark seemed to have become one with geometry lol
 
No no stahp
 
@Daminark you forgot to add the parenthesized (gone wrong gone sexual)
 
Kek
 
gotta love the pranknation
 
10:17 AM
helo
 
10:27 AM
Someone here happened to know something about physics ?
related to measuring things / relative error
 
 
1 hour later…
11:32 AM
Sanity-check: If $f$ is a nondecreasing homeomorphism of $[0, 1]$ such that $0$ and $1$ are the only fixed points of $f$, then $0$ is repelling and $1$ is attracting, yeah?
Take a point $x \in [0, 1]$ and look at the iterates $f^k(x)$. That's nondecreasing and bounded by $1$, so converges somewhere
But that point of convergence is a fixed point of $f$, so it has to be $1$
Forward iterates of $f$ converges to $1$ and similarly negative iterates of $f$ converge to $0$
Ok, I'm happy
I guess this means if $f$ is a (orientation preserving) homeomorphism of the circle so that $O_z$ is the one and only periodic orbit of $f$ for some $z \in S^1$, then for any $z' \in O_z$, given a small arc $A = [-\epsilon + z', \epsilon + z']$ around $z'$, $f$ is repelling on the negative side and attracting on the positive side
aka $O_z$ is a semistable orbit
(Because if $z$ is $q$-periodic, it's a fixed point of the homeomorphism $f^q$ of that circle. Cut along $z$ to get a (oriented) homeomorphism of the interval fixing the endpoints: invoke the previous thing)
 
12:00 PM
@BalarkaSen Take $f(x)=x^2$? $0$ attracts and $1$ repels there
Nondecreasing doesn't mean $f(x)\ge x$, it just means that $x\ge y$ implies $f(x)\ge f(y)$.
 
@Akiva Good point. I guess I just mean one of the endpoints is attracting and one of the endpoints is repelling
That's all
My proof works, except $\{f^k(x)\}$ converges to $0$ or $1$ depending on $f(x) \geq x$ or $f(x) \leq x$
 
@BalarkaSen lemma: either f(x)<=x for all x or f(x)>=x for all x
then your theorem becomes trivial
 
It's trivial; I just gave a trivial proof
The semistability is pictorially intriguing, however
In the foliation on the torus given by suspending $f$, the leaf $L$ corresponding to $z$ is semistable: every leaf on one side of $L$ accumulates to $L$ and every leaf on the other side of $L$ repels from $L$
 
@LeakyNun What? I don't understand. This is clearly false
Take $\frac12((2x-1)^3+1)$
which has an inflection point at $(\frac12,\frac12)$
 
Yeah that's false; take something which is half above the diagonal on the square and half below
I think he just meant f(x) <= x or f(x) >= x for any x in [0, 1] :P
 
12:12 PM
Oh, I thought you were calling it trivial
I see
 
@Akiva I was calling what I wrote down is trivial
I didn't pay attention to leaky very much
Once upon a time I knew a theorem called Dippolito semistability theorem which I cannot remember anymore
Nah it's not about this. It's about leaves which accumulate to itself on one side
 
@AkivaWeinberger if you follow my arrow, it clearly says “homeomorphism of [0,1]”
 
It's easy to come up with homeomorphisms of [0, 1] which are neither > Id nor < Id.
What Akiva wrote down is an example
 
12:29 PM
@LeakyNun I know
 
You can even make it a diffeomorphism (here the inflection point is a critical point; it need not be)
 
@BalarkaSen 1/2 is a fixed point
 
Easy to fix that by putting the inflection point somewhere else
 
show me
also I wrote <= not <
 
No. You were wrong twice. Figure out why you're wrong now.
I have other things to be doing
 
12:37 PM
consider f(x)-x. it is continuous, has 0 and 1 as roots, and has no other roots in between
if f(a)<a and f(b)>b where 0<a<b<1, then f(a)-a < 0 and f(b)-b > 0
by ivt there is another fixed point in the middle
@BalarkaSen
 
i suppose that is right
its really more work than the proof i wrote down for my original thing :P
 
not really, since you (wrongly) assumed that the sequence of repeated iterates is non-decreasing
 
if it is not it's increasing. in both cases it converges somewhere.
1-line pf
 
you just used my lemma
 
no, i used the fact that for every x either f(x) >= x or f(x) <= x :P
which is "A is true or A is false"
basic logic
 
12:43 PM
that isn’t enough to assert that your sequence is either increasing or decreasing
wait, it is enough
but it isn’t enough to assert that every sequence points at the same direction
 
It does prove for every x in [0, 1] either the forward orbit of x converges to 1 and the backward orbit of x converges to 0 or vice versa. I suppose it is not enough to ensure that the roles are the same for every x
potato tomato
 
12:59 PM
@LeakyNun Oh sorry I forgot that 0 and 1 were supposed to be the only fixed points
 
$z^4=1 \implies z\in \{1,i,-1,-i\}$
Is it true?
 
2:03 PM
Hi chat
@CRYPTONEWBIE those four values are distinct roots of z^4-1, so what does the fundamental theorem of algebra tell you?
@BalarkaSen I’m going to this talk today: ima.umn.edu/2017-2018.3/W1.16-20.18/26544
Fingers crossed that I understand it :P
 
Mmm. Is that about crystal defects and so on?
 
2:32 PM
Liquid crystals in this case
 
I see
 
3:13 PM
hi, suppose $f$ is analytic function s.t $f'$ has zero of order $k$ at $z_0$, i need to show that $f$ can be written as $f(z) = f(z_0) + [g(z)] \ ^ {k+1}$ , someone can help? i managed to show that if a function $h$ has a zero of order $k$ then $h(z) = [l(z)] \ ^ k$, not sure how to continue..
 
3:51 PM
Hello
If I have a set in which every point is a limit point can this set be a closed interval $[a,b]$?
It is not specified if the limit points are "right" limit points or "left" limit points. Therefore I assume any interval of the form $[a,b] \in \mathbb R$ is such a set. Is this correct?
 
there's no such thing as "right" or "left" limit points
 
@EricSilva We have made the distinction in class though.
 
that's weird lol
 
hey @Eric
 
It was in the context of derivatives
 
3:55 PM
that's a different thing then
left and right limits make sense for functions
not for limit points of sets
@BalarkaSen yo dawg
 
@EricSilva But two define a limit you need to have the point to be a limit point!
 
so?
 
so a right limit can be defined on a "right" limit point. Same for left limit. And a "normal" limit point (i.e. right and left limit point) can be used for a "normal" limit.
Anyway back to my question. A set in which every point is a limit point can be a closed interval?
 
@EricSilva Think I'm going to study more symplectic stuff now
 
a right limit for a function is something like $\lim_{x \to a^{+}} f(x)$, but a limit point for a set is just a point for which any neighborhood contains other points of your set, there's no meaningful notion of left vs right in the latter but there is in the former
 
3:58 PM
I have about an hour to spare
 
Yes that is an example a set with only limit points
@BalarkaSen fun fun fun
 
@EricSilva Alright. Thank you.
 
i have to run skip classes and run home in the snow @Balarka
tis a nightmare
 

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