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12:00 AM
and look at the inverse image under the squaring map
@PVAL-inactive Ask for clarification, but also say something about each possible interpretation if possible
 
Yeah I guess I think this site is poorly suited for that.
I guess if someone makes a typo or some minor mathematical mistake which confuses their question that works, but when its so vague I don't know what they are getting at I usually just vote to close and downvote.
Unfortunately here people often take that as an attack on their character.
 
There was just recently a question where I commented, thinking of one interpretation of the question, but I wasn't sure what the OP intended. (The title had orbifold, asked how to write down mathematically the space you get when you glue two sides of a square.)
 
hi chat
 
hi @Semiclassic
 
12:06 AM
Do you have maths
 
@PVAL-inactive the phrase 'not even wrong' is applicable at times.
 
@PVAL: The OP has yet to reply. I just checked.
 
I have maths I could talk about?
though right now I'm in that post-dinner yawn phase.
 
I sort of like the whole idea that question should be properly researched before asked here.
That means different things for people of different levels.
 
Yo @Semi
 
12:08 AM
Some level of 'due diligence', yeah.
 
Well, yeah, that's asking too much. And sometimes people have no idea how to search here.
 
but usually reading the definition of the objects you are asking about is a good start.
 
@AkivaWeinberger Got about 7 of them... :P
 
or specifying the definitions you mean if you mean non-standard ones.
 
@PVAL: You sound like me, complaining when students showed up in office hours for homework help, having read neither the definitions nor even the problem statements.
 
12:09 AM
oh man that's gotta be infuriating
 
@Ted I think though that in a format like that, it is much easier to help students with a "general sense of confusion" than in a site like this one.
 
Well, I still was not sympathetic when they had done neither of those. A good student does both ... indeed, has tried homework problems and has a list of specific questions. But that was relatively rare.
 
Um... What questions would you ask?
 
I had a student like that who would occasionally come to office hours alongside one other student (who was fantastic).
 
I have no idea to whom that was addressed, Demonark.
 
12:11 AM
i generally dont go to office hours for hw help personally
 
A few of my favorite students (all women, that I'm thinking of) came prepared like that, PVAL. They took numerous classes from me.
 
I told the poor student to do things before asking me questions, and answered the clearly thought out students of the other questions.
 
Well, you've used this place for OH a few times, Eric. :D
 
true true
 
To whoever could answer, like you don't know if people's confusions match up with yours so just listening in while the professor helps others isn't necessarily gonna help much
 
12:12 AM
The good student was also incidentally female, and the poor student was male.
 
Yup.
 
And you don't really have much to say since you don't yet know what confuses you
 
maybe there's a sociological effect that comes from feeling "representative of your outgroup"
 
I got a review (obviously from the bad student)saying I would give the female students preference because I was attracted to them.
 
ik a lot of women and minority students who've expressed that they dont wanna come in underprepared because they feel feelings like that
 
12:13 AM
@PVAL-inactive Oh ffs...
 
My view is that these particular women were very strong. But I observed years ago in the Calc Theory class that women don't like being frustrated, and guys just shrug it off.
LOL @PVAL ... my students knew an excuse like that wouldn't wash. I did wonder if some of the guys felt awkward because they knew I was gay, but I never could see any evidence of that.
 
Consider a regular hexagon in the complex plane, whose center (the centroid of the vertices) need not be the origin
Apply $z\mapsto z^4$ to the vertices
 
Must I, DogAteMy?
Ugh.
 
Prove that the centroid of the image is the image of the centroid
 
A lot of the very strong male students I have had seemed very uncomfortable about it. I think sort of feeling like they should be in more challenging classes.
maybe not very
 
12:16 AM
I've heard that something like that often happens bc some people frequently think "If I don't get this no one else probably does" vs "I don't get this but everyone else does" @Ted, maybe there's a gender breakdown that comes from how different genders are socialized in school
 
maybe somewhat is a better adjective to use.
 
DogAteMy: Do I care about the exponent 4?
 
Proof: Obvious
@TedShifrin I think it just needs to be less than 6
 
I gave a speech pretty much every course I taught about that one, Eric. I encouraged them to use the former logic.
LOL @ "obvious"
 
If it equals six, it fails for the unit hexagon centered at the origin.
 
12:18 AM
yeah i think that's a good thing to engender
 
I would say as a whole my female students seem to be more psychologically stable.
 
whoaaa
that's scary
 
is concerned
 
I have a dark sense of humor, but I figured I wouldn't want that joke on the permanent record here.
 
Makes sense
 
12:21 AM
I didn't even see it
 
I still don't see it, obvious or not, DogAteMy.
@PVAL: When I taught the math for future elementary school teachers course (37 women, 1 man, older and the worst student in the class), I got 10 pages of rants on evaluations [one good one, 37 horrendous ones]. But numerous women commented about how I flirted inappropriately with some of the students. They thought any sort of friendly chit-chat before class was flirting.
 
@TedShifrin Say the center is $c$. It's the same as translating the hexagon to be centered at the origin and doing $z\mapsto(z+c)^4$ to it, right?
 
Yes.
 
And that's higher term stuffs plus $c^4$
We want to show that the centroid of the image is $c^4$
 
Yes.
 
12:23 AM
You really got 38 evaluations for a 38 person class?
was it required?
I'd think I'd be lucky if I got about 12
 
No. Maybe only 35 or 36. I don't remember. But huge numbers. I shredded all that stuff before I moved.
 
But each higher term contributes nothing to the centroid, since $z\mapsto z^k\quad(k<6)$ applied to a hexagon centered at the origin results in something centered at the origin
 
I always had high response rates. I pushed the importance of them every day the last few weeks in every class. I talked about why it mattered. ... But they hated me, so I swear everyone did it.
Oh, I see, DogAteMy, 6 is special.
Hmm ...
 
So you're left with just $c^4$
 
So, wait. Is this true for every $n$-gon and $k$ not divisible by $n$?
 
12:30 AM
Well in the expansion of $(z+c)^k$ you might get terms with powers that are multiples of $n$ @TedShifrin
which would muck it up
 
Ah, right. So still $1\le k\le n-1$.
 
so I think we only have it for $k<n$.
Yes.
 
Nice question. :)
 
But we could let $n$ go to infinity and do it for a circle, and then it works for any degree!
Any power series, even
 
Group actions, now.
Weird. Really. I don't believe that the CM of $f(C)$ is $f(c)$ for any analytic function.
 
12:33 AM
$\displaystyle f(k)=\frac1{2\pi}\int_0^{2\pi}f(k+Re^{i\theta})\ {\rm d}\theta$
 
So you know that one, right, DogAteMy? If a group acts on a subset of a vector space, then the center of mass is preserved.
Hmm, you win, DogAteMy. throws in the tau
 
@TedShifrin I'm not sure I understand
What sort of actions are we allowing? Linear?
 
Oh, acts transitively.
 
I forget what that means
 
Maybe I'm still not right.
It means everyone visits everyone else.
 
12:35 AM
Ohh
 
But there's some correct statement here that I've had to use.
Today is not a good day for me :P
 
There was a similar thing I did with Daminark a while back
which I'm forgetting
Oh, it was about embedding finite groups into $\Bbb C^*$.
And I think we had the sum of an orbit of a point was zero, unless the group was embedded trivially
 
@Ted how is one to interpret the center of mass?
 
Sum over cardinality
 
Demonark: The average of the vectors.
 
12:40 AM
@Akiva I think it was that we were trying to think of the dual group of a finite abelian group
Normally you want to ask outright that the dual group consists of homomorphisms to the circle group, but in the finite case you can just say $\mathbb{C}^{\times}$ since the order of each element is finite, so similarly for its image, meaning it's a root of unity
 
@Daminark Did you know that holomorphisms preserve centroids of circles?
 
@TedShifrin And if you're dealing with infinitely many vectors, would you try to integrate somehow?
 
The image of the center is the centroid of the image
 
What's the centroid?
 
Yes, of course you didn't do that in your course. You define center of mass of a region $\Omega\subset\Bbb R^k$ by $(\int_\Omega \vec x \, dV)/\text{vol}(\Omega)$.
 
12:44 AM
Barycenter, center of gravity, average, mean @Daminark
@TedShifrin So $\int x/\int1$
 
Right.
See Chapter 7 of my book. :P
 
which of course cancels out into $x/1$, which equals $x$
 
Well done, DogAteMy :P
mr @Pedro !!!! hug
 
The integral signs cancel out!
 
pls no
 
12:46 AM
Hello there.
 
no bad cancellations pls
 
What's up?
 
I was just thinking about how it's all your fault I turned into a denizen of this chatroom, mr @Pedro.
You dragged me here to discuss a multivariable analysis question ... which I never did figure out, as I recall.
 
Haha, don't put that on my shoulders Ted! ;)
 
Too late.
 
12:48 AM
I cannot recall what the MV question was.
 
nor I.
I wonder if either of us would get it now ... :D
 
Now I am a filthy algebraist, but I enjoy looking at some geometry every now and then.
 
Yeah, I feel sad that you've sold out.
 
I actually wrote a long set of notes on complex analysis, about 200 pages.
Because I TAed complex analysis this semester.
 
It's beautiful material.
 
12:49 AM
Wait hold on now algebra is the selling out field? I thought that was econ
 
You're doing extra, not intra, Demonark.
 
I don't follow
 
Pedro, did you hear that I'm unretiring to teach high school kidlets?
external versus internal, Demonark
 
Oh are you saying like, selling out internally versus externally? I mean I guess...
 
12:51 AM
It's somewhat joking, Demonark.
 
As is to be expected, much as Soug probably wouldn't be joking about it. @EricSilva
 
what would soug be joking about
 
There are algebraically-minded mathematicians for whom I have infinite respect, but ... plenty not. ... I suppose I could be fair and say that holds for every subfield.
 
There's a great quote/insult:
 
Hush.
 
12:53 AM
"I have nothing but respect for you. And not much of that, either."
3
 
I don't like formalists, no matter what area of math.
 
At least his beer skits reputation suggests that he probably thinks algebraists have gone to the dark side
 
LOL @DogAteMy.
 
@TedShifrin You can replace "algebraically" by any other field.
 
Sold out for cake
 
12:54 AM
Oh @Daminark, probably
 
That's a manifesto of the free time I had this semester.
 
Well, Pedro, did you read my second sentence.
 
Graduating was good.
 
I'm not going to try to translate all that, Pedro. Didn't the professor write notes or use a text?
Oh, free time.
You could be teaching me more tennis :)
 
@PedroTamaroff Howcome the thing is in Spanish but the opening quote is in English
That's like how people put French quotes into English math books
 
12:55 AM
Pedro is bilingual.
Don't even start me on Hubbard, DogAteMy.
But I guess Artin did it too.
 
@AkivaWeinberger There are many opening quotes, and they are all in English.
 
@PedroTamaroff So who is your intended audience
 
Some authors translate them, but I find it bothersome.
 
LOL
 
@AkivaWeinberger Undergrad students that can read Spanish.
 
12:56 AM
french quotes make everything sound classy
 
mr @Pedro: I'm switching to a different chiropractor, so hopefully I'll be able to play more tennis :P
 
I can read this, and can pretend like I know spanish.
 
Yeah but three languages is hard enough do you expect me to learn French too @EricSilva
 
@TedShifrin What do they fix?
 
You will in college, DogAteMy.
 
12:57 AM
Sacred blue
 
if you know a romance language it's like fairly easy man
 
tension/spasms in my upper back, neck, shoulders, Pedro.
 
@AkivaWeinberger If you know English and Spanish, French is totally readable.
 
Fair @EricSilva
 
(With a proper google search every now and then)
 
12:58 AM
@Akiva I don't really know any of those languages and can still read French
 
i basically walked into french class passably thanks to portuguese
@Daminark god damn norman conquest
 
Eric, I can't make heads or tails out of Portuguese, despite knowing French and Latin (and German and some Russian).
 
But yeah I mean, I think eventually in math they'll want you to learn French/German/Russian @Akiva
French is supposedly the most useful of the three since they're a bit less inclined to translate works, though I'm not sure how accurate that statement is so it comes with no warranty
 
readable, maybe. Speakable?
 
Russian is quite a bit more difficult than anything else.
 
1:00 AM
although lots of US schools are now replacing foreign language Ph.D. requirements with a computer programming requirement :(
 
@Ted which the european kind or the brazilian kind
 
or at least the other languages you listed.
 
hell if I know, Eric :P
 
my most substantial contact with other languages is through years of choir, though.
 
i would imagine the european kind is easier
 
1:01 AM
and that isn't really the same thing.
 
I saw 3%, that makes me fluent in Portuguese probably /s
 
I commented to you ages ago about how Brazilian movies sounded like tinges of Russian.
 
g r e a t show
 
@EricSilva I know right
 
yeah i actually think the timbres of the languages have converged cause sometimes i hear russian and think im hearing portuguese till i hear the words and dont understand anything
 
1:02 AM
@Ted giving people the choice to go one way or another or straight up requiring everyone to do programming? The former sounds reasonable I guess, the latter is iffy
 
I mean, now I know how to say "Presão o botão, Joana", so I'm pretty much done
 
lol
 
(For all you know, that's correct) EDIT Wait you're Brazilian I forgot
 
Demonark, I think it depends on the schools.
Even in pure math, programming has become more and more important (that counts Mathematica programming).
 
Oh huh, in which contexts?
 
1:04 AM
@Akiva rip
 
because even pure math is more and more computationally experimental
 
The issue I had with language studies is that when I no longer was trying to use the language I quickly forgot almost everything I had learned.
 
Was that right? I feel like "presão" probably isn't right @EricSilva
 
I know of diff geo theorems that were proved back in the 80s because of seriously sophisticated computer graphics giving insight.
 
1:04 AM
Well, I tried.
 
@PVAL-inactive Ted's shocked!
 
Don't take Ted's name in vain!
 
@Akiva can you make the ão sound
that's a tricky one for non-native speakers
 
@TedShifrin Don't extend the definition of your field when it suits you.
 
TED talk opening music
 
Say what @PVAL?
 
What are you refering to?
 
minimal surface stuff ... Meeks, Hoffman, et al.
I don't do minimal surfaces, but I think that's uncalled for.
 
I was concerned you were trying to co-opt Thurston's ideas into your field.
 
I have no knowledge of Thurston's insights from computers.
 
1:07 AM
@Daminark ಠ_ಠ
@EricSilva I can try, no idea if I get it right or not
 
In seriousness, I claimed to do mostly complex geometry, so nothing belongs to me.
 
@Akiva that was the proper reaction :P
 
pressione is the correct form @Akiva if you're curious but it sounds weird to me
I use aperte
working doing computer graphics is something i was seriously interested in at some point
 
@Daminark Now that the video loaded enough for me to actually watch it - this is pretty good actually
 
OK, I have to go cook. Bye, all.
 
1:11 AM
have fun @Ted
 
It is pretty good, but like, I'm pretty sure there are only a few things out there more... I dunno, in the generic kek side of the internet or whatever
See you @Ted!
 
@Daminark The harmony is weird fairly often, I dunno anymore
Did you see "We Are Number One explained by bill wurtz"
 
I have, it's great
 
I bet it's possible to do an actual analysis of Bill Wurtz
'Cause it's clearly not unpatterned nonsense
 
O lawd
 
@AkivaWeinberger I don't think that is necessary.
 
What, Bill Wurtz?
Do you like music? (@Daminark)
 
@AkivaWeinberger all I have to do is prove the inductive step for the case that x = 12n + 3 or 12n + 7
 
1:25 AM
Oh the Collatz thing
 
yeah
shouldn't be too hard
 
Well try it I guess
@Typhon Famous last words
 
i think they have been proven before
i just don't know how
at this point I think the collatz conjecture has been proven. We just don't have all the cases in one place.
i remember reading something about 3 mod 12 and 7 mod 12 being proved.
interestingly
those are both 3 mod 4
which is a trickier case
 
Nice
 
1:28 AM
Like, more gold than the rest of his stuff
 
im going to ask a question about it
im like 99% certain those were once proven.
no point in me trying to reprove them. It's probably just something tricky.
 
i just clicked that last link and this is actually a sick jam with the harmonizing
 
tbh this belongs in a museum
 
Xam
Hello everyone
 
1:33 AM
My feeling re: Collatz is akin to this SMBC: xkcd.com/1723
 
0
Q: Cases for which the Collatz Conjecture have been proven in the past and proofs of those cases?

TyphonI thought I read somewhere once (I thought it was Wikipedia) that the Collatz Conjecture had been proven for the cases where numbers are of the form 12n + 3 and 12n + 7. Is this true? If so, could someone post a proof for those cases? I am especially curious about those cases, because I am confus...

 
1:59 AM
There is no cause for a larm
 
Eyy
 
@AkivaWeinberger hmmm?
 
oh, totally forgot this xkcd: xkcd.com/710
2
 
 
2 hours later…
3:58 AM
I need some help with measure theory...
 
 
2 hours later…
6:00 AM
I don't need help anymore
 
6:32 AM
Screw estimates
Also computation
I'm just gonna become a higher topos theorist
 
What happened pal?
 
This pset in complex is apparently horrible
I haven't gotten the chance to look at it yet because dynamics is messing with me
 
How can I show that the equation $11^x+13^x+17^x-19^x=0$ has only one real root...Please someone help me
 
But a lot of it is a ton of integral computation
And I'm just like, how about nope?
 
6:40 AM
Eh...
 
Just a joke :-)
 
Kek
 
7:31 AM
Hi
0
Q: Conjecture about arcsin and $\sqrt{\quad}$

mickLet $r(a,b)$ be a fraction depending on $a,b$ and nonnegative. For every $b$ there is an $a$ such that $r(a,b)$ is not $0$. Let $C(a,b)$ be a squarefree positive integer depending on $b$ and different for every $b$. Consider $$ S_J = \sum_j^J \sum_i^I \arcsin( r(i,j) \sqrt C(i,j) ) $$ Where $...

Any idea ??
This trig question is harder than I assumed
Hello world
 
 
2 hours later…
9:08 AM
Hello. Is there a person to discuss algebraic groups with?
 
 
1 hour later…
10:11 AM
LaTeX doubt, I need to write a row vector where every component is given by a long expression, so I want to write it with one component per row on multiple rows, sort of like a pmatrix with one column but with a small ( at the beginning and a small ) at the end, what's the best way to do that?
 
Hello, any experts on spectral methods for solving pdes?
 
Hi chat
 
hi @Astyx
I did a bit of an hack with the align environment and it seems to work well
 
10:27 AM
illustrates nicely why I like to expand polynomial looking expressions by using a table
 
10:55 AM
@AlessandroCodenotti Are these quaternions ?
 
11:28 AM
3
Q: Conjecture about arcsin and $\sqrt{\quad}$

mickLet $r(a,b)$ be a fraction depending on $a,b$ and nonnegative. For every $b$ there is an $a$ such that $r(a,b)$ is not $0$. Let $C(a,b)$ be a squarefree positive integer depending on $b$ and different for every $b$. Consider for positive integers $I,J$ : $$ S_J = \sum_{j=1}^J \sum_{i=1}^I \arc...

Any idea ?
 
11:53 AM
@mick "... a squarefree positive integer ..." looks complicated. Do you expect that your question can be answered?
 
12:07 PM
> People have very powerful facilities for taking in information visually or kinesthetically, and thinking with their spatial sense. On the other hand, they do not have a very good built-in facility for inverse vision, that is, turning an internal spatial understanding back into a two-dimensional image. Consequently, mathematicians usually have fewer and poorer figures in their papers and books than in their heads.
 
Everything to me has a relational existence, and live in a class what I called concept space. Therefore everything is like space to me, but trying to illustrate what my mental images see is often difficult, sometimes require art skills I don't have yet
(though tbh the stuff I so far illustrated that are not geometry is quite faithful to my mental imagery, except that it is of low quality)
Perhaps, I am really the space core in disguise, given how I think everything is space
 
12:27 PM
@Secret Are the rules governing space also space?
 
In what context? in terms of whether the rules governing space as we knew in physics is also space in some sense, or my thinking process on how I see everything is like space?
 
I mean ultimately whatever you call it, whether by the name "space" or not, you associate the notion with some kind of structure governed by some kind of rules. (Presumably physical space is only one instance of your idea of "space".) But the rules themselves, are they space?
 
12:43 PM
O yeah, they can be. For example, if the rules are logical statments, they can arrange themselve in some systematic structure such that you can derive and reason about things by mixing them together in certain ways. For this particular example, it is similar to categorical logic
so rules can form a space themselves
Ultimately, all philosophical concepts interact in concept space, the class that contains all possible concepts
by interaction, I mean the consideration of "what happens when you put A together with B" sort of thinking
So in the end, you can say a mind map is like space, because you can draw it on paper and then you can move between the nodes as if you are walking on it
 
Long story short, the rules are also like space to me if I understand what happens when I put them together, reason about them and predicting the outcome the the thought process
In a more mathematical context: All strutures that I can partially understand are like space and theoretically I can organise the concept neatly on a piece of paper that make it look like a network graph
So, a category is like space, the functors are like space, the mophisms and objects are also like space
 

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