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12:00 AM
So I'm trying to prove that $SO(2)$ is connected, it does make sense that given two matrices $A,B \in SO(2)$, we express each as a rotation and change one angle into another, thereby getting a path between them, right?
 
So in one we have (x-e,x+e) a subset of {x} but not the other?
 
My favorite way to do it is Gram-Schmidt
 
Well, that notation doesn't make sense, @Gridley, in general, but basically right. In one case you have an open ball $B(x,\epsilon) = \{x\}$.
 
I feel like Ivan Niven's one-page proof of pi's irrationality might actually be more complicated than it needs to be. (My guess is that I'm wrong, though)
 
@Balarka Which of us were you talking to?
 
12:01 AM
To you :)
 
OK, I'm outta here. My back is killing me.
 
Yeah sorry. I thought singleton's were always closed
 
Hmm, I don't see just yet how that'd work

See you @Ted
 
@GridleyQuayle Things can be both open and closed at the same time
 
Thanks for your help.
 
12:02 AM
Especially in disconnected spaces
(Are you doing metric spaces or general topological spaces?)
(In the former, singletons are always closed.)
 
We started we metric's and have moved to the general case
 
@Daminark Pick a path in SL_n and then Gram-Schmidt it to fit in SO(n)
 
Another question I had is: when is frechet differentiable the same as gateaux differentiable?
 
Has anyone in here studied oodle theory?
 
mt3
i wish ams notices go back to the old webpage design
 
12:04 AM
Ah, well, we don't yet have that $SL(n)$ is connected :/
 
You can definitely prove that!
 
In the lecture where we proved the MVT for higher dimensions I think my lecturer said that it they were equivalent for the purposes of the theorem
 
12:16 AM
Hey guys! Can someone explain a little bit of functional basics to me in this example?:
I don't understand why the integral just vanishes here.
is it because we are evaluating at one of the specific slices of the integral?
and the constants get dropped outside of the integral?
 
Xam
Hello guys, does anyone know about primal sets?
 
@Balarka I will definitely attempt that at some point soon, it sounds neat
For now, though, is it true that everything in $SO(n)$ can be written as $\begin{pmatrix}\cos(\theta)&-\sin(\theta)&0\\ \sin(\theta)&\cos(\theta)&0 \\ 0&0&I_{n-2}\end{pmatrix}$?
Well I only need it for $SO(3)$
But is it true in general?
 
Then rotate the rectangle and repeat infinitely
 
12:40 AM
@SimplyBeautifulArt Ha. The trouble is in assuming that the removed triangles are isosceles (they aren't).
 
Hehehe
:D
Love the little brain teasers
 
12:55 AM
hey
just a quick question.
verification I guess not a question
 
hi
everyone
 
@Adeek Yes?
 
@Adeek Please ask
 
@Akiva what studies pertain to symmetric polynomial and that stuff
algebraic geometry?
 
Galois theory, I think
And perhaps ring theory
I'm not an expert in either of these, though.
 
1:02 AM
:|
But oodle theory
 
Actually, Wikipedia offers this:
> Symmetric polynomials are important to linear algebra, representation theory, and Galois theory. They are also important in combinatorics, where they are mostly studied through the ring of symmetric functions, which avoids having to carry around a fixed number of variables all the time.
@ZachHauk
 
i didnt get above the AIME cutoff
which im glad for, because that means i can study for another year
 
I don't know yet if I did
I suppose we're probably not allowed to discuss the problems yet.
Which one did you take? AMC 12 or 10?
 
10
 
1:06 AM
the only reason i was able to take it is because i got the highest school grade for amc 8
and so they send the highest scorer from the middle school to the public high school near me
to participate in the amc 10
 
What grade are you in, again?
 
so i didnt have much choice in the matter
8th.
and i feel like wasted potential.
 
Ah. I thought you were in high school for some reason.
"Wasted potential"??
 
nope, almost.
yeah, i spend most of my time doing other stuff
when i could be studying a lot harder, as i did in past years
 
You have three more years to try at the AMC 10, you know
 
1:08 AM
yeah, i know
well two now
and then two more for AMC 12
 
Oh, right
 
AMC 12 cutoff is a bit more lenient, right?
 
I think so.
 
hm, if you dont mind me asking
 
Well, fewer points, but also a smaller percentage of those who take it (IIRC)
 
1:08 AM
what scores have you gotten in previous years?
 
Perfect score on the AMC 8. Enough to pass to the AIME when I took the AMC 10 in 9th grade.
In 10th grade they made me take the AMC 12 instead of the 10, and I went to the AIME again
(I didn't pass the AIME either time)
And then 11th grade AMC was this morning.
 
yeah, it was this afternoon for me
i didnt do so well, only started studying for this like 4 days ago lol
i think my maximum score for amc assuming the ones i put down are correct is 105
 
How was it @AkivaWeinberger ?
 
which is pretty garbage
because im trash :v
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt I wasn't able to do five questions (#17 and #22-25) since I ran out of time
but I'm pretty confident about the others?
 
1:12 AM
D:
what is the AMC?
 
american mathematics competition
 
qualifies you for a series of exams leading to the USA IMO team
 
WHOA WHOA, WAIT A MINUTE! HOW DO I SIGN UP?
and what's it about?
 
well
howq old are you?
 
1:13 AM
@SimplyBeautifulArt Are you from the US?
He's high school, I think
 
AH everyones smarter than me
 
anyways just ask your school to order copies
next year
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt So my age ^_^
 
^_^
Woo hoo
:D
What kinds of questions @AkivaWeinberger
 
1:14 AM
geometry, algebra, probability
are the main ones
 
You can look up past ones on the aops website
They're multiple choice. Nothing needs calculus.
 
except you can use calculus of course
 
You can, you don't need to
 
i didnt get any of the #20-25
 
1:16 AM
its weird
last year the highest amc 10 score at the high school was like 87
but the highest amc 12 score was like 130
 
Hm
I hate geometry and probability
except some geometry
but too many annoyingly unintuitive formulas IMO
 
most of it isnt formulas...
some common theorems are like
power of a point
angle bisector theorem
 
It's out of 150 points, if I remember correctly. 6 points for right answers, 1.5 for skipped, and 0 for wrong answers. (So the expected points obtained by guessing randomly from the five choices is the same as the points you get by skipping EDIT: no)
Wait
 
uhh
wouldnt it have to be
1.2 for skipped
 
I assumed it was true without double-checking that
 
1:19 AM
in order to be the same
 
Huh, so skipping is actually more than guessing randomly
Weird.
It would be the same if there were only four choices per question.
 
@AkivaWeinberger I guess they'd prefer an admission of a lack of knowledge over an attempt to bold-faced guess.
 
@AkivaWeinberger does that mean we can talk about it at 12:00am?
 
I dunno
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt The first few problems are always ridiculously easy.
 
@AkivaWeinberger where do you go for AIME?
 
They just set me up in a random room in my school the last two times
I don't know what they usually do
 
DogAteMy: You still inside-out and upside-down? :)
 
1:27 AM
I assume no calculators?
 
@Simply: Yes. @Ted: What?
Uh, maybe?
 
hey @Ted
 
hi Zach
 
Which of the following functions is a solution of
some differential equation of the form
y’=f(y),
where f is continuously differentiable for all real y?
 
i didnt do well on the AMC10 but i have 4 years
left
 
1:30 AM
Can i have some hints to this problem
 
Zach: I've never been a very good tricky competitive test taker, either.
Turns out I can write them pretty well, though :P
 
Ted's Geometry Test

1. Prove that there are infinitely many inscribed triangles of maximal area in an ellipse
 
of greatest area
 
Our high school competition tests were all multiple choice (or short answer for the ciphering questions).
 
yeah they are multiple choice
 
1:33 AM
actually, Zach, we had questions like you were practicing yesterday with roots of polynomials
 
There was a polynomial question on this year's AMC 12 but I didn't know how to do it
 
Goodness, these problems aren't necessarily hard, I just keep making stupid mistakes
(>.<) I need sleep probably
 
Someone have a tranq dart
 
me neither
it was like question 24
a polynomial question, that is
i didnt know how to do it cuz i cant math
 
You were taking the AMC 10, it was a different question
 
1:37 AM
i know
im just saying
maybe it was the same one?
because they copy questions
(did it have to do with some polynomial that has the same roots as another except one more?)
 
Oh. So maybe it was that one.
I guess we'll see.
 
i didnt know how to do that one
 
Goodnight
 
hi @ted
 
2:00 AM
@Akiva well i guess well wait and see
 
2:33 AM
Hello all, i need help for the following ODE question,
Which of the following functions is a solution of
some differential equation of the form
y’=f(y),
where f is continuously differentiable for all real y?

I was given multiple choices to pick from. How do i approach such a question?
 
@yh05 y is the inverse function of the antiderivative of f(x)
 
for instance im given a choice of y = sin(x)
the inverse function would be arcsin(x)
 
wait, you're given y=sin(x) as an option, but you're not told what f(y) is?
that makes no sense
 
im only given 5 functions
i mean 5 solutions
 
why don't you just tell us the problem?
 
2:43 AM
Which of the following functions is a solution of some differential equation of the form
y’=f(y), where f is continuously differentiable for all real y?

a) y = sin(t)
b) y = t^2
c) y = t^3 - t
d) y = cosh(t)
e) y = tanh(t)
f) all of the above
 
aha
 
i find it really difficult because f(y) is unknown
 
so find y' for each option and see if you can get it in terms of y (in a way that is true for all t)
for instance if y=sin(t) then y'=cos(t). can you write cos(t) in terms of sin(t)?
you could try: cos(t)=sqrt(1-sin^2(t)), however because of sign changes this isn't always true
 
i see
 
indeed, cos(t)=f(sin(t)) is not possible, because you can pick two values s and t for which sin(s)=sin(t) but cos(s)=/=cos(t)
 
2:48 AM
thanks so much
im trying out the other choices now
Im curious what does "f is continuous differentiable for all real y" have to do with the problem?
 
when it asks you if there is an f with y'=f(y), you are specifically to see if there is an f which is continuous and differentiable everywhere
 
3:41 AM
anyone here know numerical methods?
 
4:11 AM
Is there a name for mapping the alphabet to the numbers 1 through 26 in an order-preserving manner?
Like, A is 1, B is 2, C is 3, etc.
 
4:25 AM
alphabetical order or total order?
 
4:37 AM
I would say alphabetical order is exactly that
but when you're talking to your friends outside of math you aren't going to write down an embedding of the alphabet into the integers
 
4:52 AM
@MikeMiller Apparently in his book Partial Differential Relations, Gromov constructs an isometric (real analytic) embedding of any smooth surface into $\Bbb R^5$. There's lots of related stuff here. mathoverflow.net/questions/37708/… (for instance I think the 1939 result shows no isometric immersion of the flat Klein bottle into $\Bbb R^3$)
 
@Secret @SamuelYusim Alphabetical order is an order. I'm thinking, what would you call the one-to-one correspondence, if there is such a name
 
I would call the correspondence alphabetical order as well as the order
I feel like people do that sometimes
where like, X is Y, but X is naturally associated to Z, so we say Z is Y
 
OK. So, I'd say, for example, "All of the letters of the word 'geek' correspond to prime numbers in the alphabetic order"
or maybe "All of the letters of the word 'geek' are in prime-number positions"
or what
 
either sounds good to me
 
(7, 5, 5, 11)
@SamuelYusim 20,8,1,14,11,19
 
5:03 AM
I did the first letter there and was like, it probably says thanks
and then I noticed the third letter was a so I'm gonna go with that
 
25,21,16
 
a friend gave me this dumb problem a while ago: consider the linear diophantine system given by
$O+N+E = 1$, $T+W+O = 2$, $T+H+R+E+E = 3$, ..., $F+O+U+R+T+E+E+N = 14$. Can this system be solved? If so, how many equations can you have before there's no solution?
 
So $(F+O+U+R+T+E+E+N)-(F+O+U+R)=T+E+N$?
That means $E=0$.
 
yep
teen = ten
=tn
 
5:09 AM
Can the variables be negative?
 
sure
actually just say they're positive
 
No, you need negatives.
 
well fine, say they can be negative then
 
$(O+N+E)+(T+W+O)=3$, but the left-hand side would be greater than $T+E+N$.
 
true
 
5:10 AM
@PVAL-inactive Interesting. That's a book I'd like to understand, ever.
 
We don't need to worry about $S+I+X$ and $E+I+G+H+T$ equalling the right numbers; we can just set $X$ and $G$ to what they need to be @SamuelYusim
 
anyway, have fun with this bad boy. I'm gonna go to sleep on account of I have a class in like 8 hours
 
$I=0$ also
@SamuelYusim A solution does not exist.
$N+I+N+E=9$, but $E=0$ and — as I'll show in a bit — $I=0$. This makes $2N=9$, contradiction.
$I=0$ follows from $T+H+I+R+T+E+E+N=(T+H+R+E+E)+(T+E+N)$
We get $I=E$, and thus $I=0$.
QED.
 
so can you do it up to 12?
 
Dunno
The "teen" stuff made it a lot easier
 
5:19 AM
I just realized that for any language you can do this, and get a constant which is the maximum number of equations before you can't solve the system
 
 
4 hours later…
8:50 AM
Hey everyone, quick question
I'm trying to prove $\bar{A} = \Int(A) \cup Bd(A)$
I've proved that $Int(A) \cup Bd(A) \subset \bar{A}$, which is quite trivial
But proving the converse doesn't seem as easy
I've seen a proof that says "take $x \in \bar{A}$ and assume $x$ to be an exterior point of $A$", but how can an exterior point of $A$ be contained in $\bar{A}$?
Because $\bar{A} = A \cup A'$ where $A'$ are the limit points of $A$, if $x \in A$ then every neighborhood of $x$ intersects $A$, the same applies if $x$ is a limit point of $A$
But if $x \in \bar{A}$ and $x$ is an exterior point, then no neighborhood of $x$ intersects $A$, a contradiction...
Here's a link to the proof for the converse : math.stackexchange.com/a/704402/266135
 
9:36 AM
@Perturbative He's proving that if a point is an exterior point, then it's not in $\overline A$
And the uses the contrapositive
Thus if $x\in \overline A$, it's either in the boundary of the interior
 
10:01 AM
or*
 
10:47 AM
please anyone guide answer for this question
0
Q: Mixture and Alligation question:

elavarasanThere is a Vessel holding 40 litres of milk.4 litres of Milk is initially taken out from the Vessel and 4 litres of water is then poured in .After this 5 litres of mixtures of Mixture is replaced with the six litres of water and finally six litres of Mixture is Replaced with the six litres of wat...

@Ramanujan guide me
 
 
1 hour later…
11:54 AM
Hello!!

How could we check if the integral $\int_0^{\infty}\sqrt{x}\cos (x^2)dx$ converges?

I tried to use the direct comparison test, but it wasn't helpful... Coud you give me a hint?
 
12:30 PM
yesterday, by Simply Beautiful Art
If anyone is interested, I'm hosting a big number contest. Code your number in any language (no experience needed), maximum of 256 characters, not including spaces, and try to reach the largest number you can. First submissions due Saturday. :-) http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/51337/this-is-the-realm-of-simply-beautiful-‌​art
 
@Astyx Okay thanks for pointing that out!
 
@MaryStar I'm not entirely sure on convergence, but it's possible to solve that integral in terms of the Gamma function
 
12:45 PM
@SimplyBeautifulArt To check the convergence it is not neccesary to calculate the integral. Do you have an idea how we could check the convergence?
 
@MaryStar make the substitution $x=u^{2/3}$, then Dirichlet test
Aha! I can test for convergence!
XD
 
Hiya
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt Using that substitution we get the integral $\frac{2}{3}\int_0^{\infty}u^{-1/6}\cos (u^{4/3})du$, right?
 
@MaryStar the cosine should be the only thing remaining
 
1:03 PM
Ahh... I tried that again:
For $u=x^{3/2}$ we get $du=\frac{3}{2}\sqrt{x}dx$.
Therefore we get the integral $\frac{3}{2}\int_0^{\infty}\cos (u^{4/3)du$.
Is this correct now? @SimplyBeautifulArt
 
Yup
Now split it via the period of cosine and use alternating test
 
So I guess the crux of Niven's proof is that $\int_0^\pi x^n(\pi-x)^n\sin(x)\operatorname d\!x$ is a multiple of $n!$ (in $\Bbb Z[\pi]$).
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt Do we write the integral $\frac{3}{2}\int_0^{\infty}\cos (u^{4/3})du$ in the form $\frac{3}{2}\sum_{n=0}^{\infty}\int_{n\pi}^{(n+2)\pi}\cos (u^{4/3})du$ or $\frac{3}{2}\sum_{n=0}^{\infty}\int_{n\pi}^{(n+1)\pi}\cos (u^{4/3})du$ ?
 
Yeah basically. I'm reading the raw LaTeX, so yeah
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt In the sum the integral goes from $n\pi$ to $(n+1)\pi$ or to $(n+2)\pi$ ?
 
1:15 PM
No. You need to choose the bounds so that $cos(u^{4/3})=0$ at the bounds
 
Ahh
 
Then we have a positive hump
Then a smaller negative hump
 
Hi chat
 
And then slightly smaller positive hump, etc.
And thus we may apply the alternating test
@Astyx o/
 
Do we have to take the integral is the sum from $(n\pi)^{3/4}$ to $((n+2)\pi)^{3/4}$, where $n$ goes from $0$ to infinity? @SimplyBeautifulArt
 
1:36 PM
To get an alternating series do we use again a substitution? @SimplyBeautifulArt
 
First, good
@MaryStar second step, just show each hump is smaller than the previous
And sum up all the humps
Sum = alternating test
 
What exactly do you mean by hump? @SimplyBeautifulArt
 
@MaryStar quick sketch the graph of $\cos(u^{4/3}$
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt We have the following graph:
 
So you see the humps?
 
1:50 PM
@SimplyBeautifulArt Yes
 
Show that the area of each hump goes to zero and apply alternating test
 
How could we show that the area of each hump goes to zero? Could you give me a hint? @SimplyBeautifulArt
 
Uh...I just have an intuitive understanding on how to do things. I try to avoid getting my hands dirty. Perhaps someone can help?
 
What are we doing ?
 
2:06 PM
Determining the convergence of an integral
 
I want to check if the integarl $\int_0^{\infty}\sqrt{x}\cos (x^2)dx$ converges.
Using the substitution $u=x^{3/2}$ we get $du=\frac{3}{2}\sqrt{x}dx$.

Therefore, $$\int_0^{\infty}\sqrt{x}\cos (x^2)dx=\frac{3}{2}\int_0^{\infty}\cos (u^{4/3})du$$

We can write the last integral as $$\sum_{n=0}^{\infty}\int_{(n\pi)^{3/4}}^{((n+2)\pi)^{3/4}}\cos (u^{4/3})du$$
How could we continue from here to check the convergence? Do you have an idea?
 
hello everyone can anyone guide me in the following question math.stackexchange.com/questions/2134041/…
 
2:24 PM
$$\lim_{n \to \infty} \left(1 + \frac{1}{n^2}\right)^n = 1$$ why??
Nevermind
0
A: Computing $\lim\limits_{n\to\infty}(1+1/n^2)^n$

Paramanand SinghYou can do this without knowing anything about $e$. Using Bernoulli's Inequality we have $$\left(1 - \frac{1}{n^{4}}\right)^{n} \geq 1 - \frac{1}{n^{3}}$$ and clearly we have $$\left(1 - \frac{1}{n^{4}}\right)^{n} \leq 1 - \frac{1}{n^{4}}$$ so that $$1 - \frac{1}{n^{3}} \leq \left(1 - \frac{1}{n^...

 
@Ramanujan, could you help me?
I want to ask a math question
 
2:40 PM
@MaryStar Shouldn't it be $n+1$ ?
 
@Astyx The upper bound of the integral?
 
Yes
 
@Astyx Ah ok
 
And first equality should be $2\over3$ I think
 
@Astyx You mean the constant term or the power?
 
2:45 PM
Constant term
@MaryStar Maybe doing the variable change $u = x^2$, then integrating by part is a better idea ?
 
@Hey-men-whatsup ask man,if I could then I will help :)
 
3:05 PM
thanks man
here, kinda dumb Question, but eh..
0
Q: Choosing lowest value of a class group

Hey-men-whatsupI'm studying frequency distribution, but I found that the lowest value taken is varying. For this data (Has minimum value = 71): after it gets arranged in a table : The lowest value taken is 70 While for this data Has minimum value = 7.1: after it gets arranged in a table: The lowe...

 
3:27 PM
@Hey-men-whatsup you question got deleted?
 
4:25 PM
Im doing a project on modeling ODE for my first course in ODE.

Anyone has a cool suggestion on the topic?

I thought of modelling love between characters in a movie.
 
@Ramanujan, I've moved it math se..
 
@Hey-men-whatsup you can notice that in second case maximum value is 9.1
And in first case maximum value is less than 90
I don't think picking different lowest values will affect/effect anything
 
@Ramanujan, Exactly that's in my head now, I don't think picking different lowest values will effect anything, maybe it's just matter of a choice
 
@Hey-men-whatsup and how are you computer classes going?
 
4:43 PM
Can someone post the LaTeX link
 
@Ramanujan, fine.., how about your?
 
Fine @Hey-men-whatsup
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt tinyurl.com/cfqcvpc
 
@Ramanujan, nice, do you like hiking?
 
4:48 PM
Anyone here read the FB page "Mathematical theorems you had no idea existed, 'cause they're false"?
 
I'm going to do it, this weekend, very tired of learning hard for these couple months
 
Today's was submitted by me (I apologize if it's too easy):
 
@Hey-men-whatsup no
 
@AkivaWeinberger yep
 
> [False theorem:] A subgroup of a finitely generated group is finitely generated.
 
4:49 PM
I haven't seen today's theorem though
Ah, commutator's subgroup of a free group
 
That's one, yeah
$\langle a^nb^n\mid n\in\Bbb Z\rangle$ works, too
(Kernel of $ab\mapsto1$, aka, the ones with an equal amount of $a$s and $b$s)
 
@Ramanujan, I mean not in the sense of 'climbing' but just for walking around
 
$\langle a^nba^{-n}\mid n\in\Bbb Z\rangle$, the kernel of $b\mapsto1$, also works.
 
That's an interesting example
 
(Aka the ones with zero total $a$s.)
 
4:52 PM
@AkivaWeinberger you submitted on that page
 
@Ramanujan Yeah, about a month ago (there's a long queue)
 
Posted 8 minutes ago
 
Right
I submitted it about a month ago, they accepted it and added it to the queue, and they posted it now
 
hi everyone
 
Hi @Adeek
 
4:56 PM
hi
 
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