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12:00 AM
@Eric Yes Principal ideal domains are commutative
 
He didn't say principal ideal domain though
 
Yes you are right
 
Yeah, I wanted to know if it's true without assuming we have a domain.
 
There are noncommutative examples when its not two sided
 
You can look for simple rings, which have no ideals other than the trivial, there are non commutative examples try to come up with one.
 
12:08 AM
Ok will do.
 
@PaulPlummer Division rings?
 
WHOOPS
 
While looking around stack exchange I noticed this: ∀x∈U:q(x)≡∀x:[x∈U→q(x)]
http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2124099/simple-question-about-universal-quantifier
what is the meaning of the ":" in that formula?
they seem to replace the $\rightarrow$
 
12:24 AM
@user400188 Some people use a comma instead. It just means, "for all x in U, the property q(x) holds"
and "for all x, if x is in U then q(x) holds"
 
are not they different statements though? "if x is in U" does not seem the same as "x in U,"
for instance X$\rightarrow$Y=$\bar X+Y$
 
@user400188 Compare: "All multiples of ten end in zero" and "For any number you give me, if it's a multiple of ten then it ends in a zero"
 
@AkivaWeinberger do you want to discuss something in algebraic topology ?
 
for a random example
@Adeek Sure, what?
(Train arrives in 3 min and then I'll lose internet connection a bunch of times, though)
 
I have an idea how to solve it so I would like to discuss it with you. Show that $\mathbb{I} \times D^n$ has $\{0\} \times \mathbb{D}^n \cup \mathbb{I} \times S^{n - 1}$ as deformation retraction
So I consider the point $(2,0) \in R \times D^n$
okay ?
I project it onto the cylinder and I get the required homotopy.
 
12:29 AM
I'm not sure how to represent "All multiples of ten end in zero" in FOL
except ∀n M(N) ends in zero
 
so the way I am thinking about this is first given a point $(s,x) \in I \times D^n$ I want to determine the end point for which the ray goes to in $I \times D^n$
with me so far ?
once I have an end point for each (s,x) I can use straight line homotopy to get the required deformation retraction.
 
Can an almost everywhere continuous and bounded function from R^n to R^n be aproximated by a sequence of C^\infty functions?
 
approximated in what sense
 
ah yea, in the sense that it goes to it pointwise almost everywhere
 
can't you approximate in that sense with functions that are almost everywhere constant?
in any case, let $\chi_r$ be a bump function that's 1 on $B_r(0)$ and 0 outside of $B_{r+1}(0)$. then clearly $\chi_r f \to f$ in your sense
now one may take a smooth approximation to the identity $g_t \to \delta_0$, and consider the convolution $g_{1/n} * (\chi_n f)$
 
12:43 AM
ah and so the convolved functions will go to the target function a.e
 
yeah
the \chi_n is just an annoying trick to make sure the convolutions are good
 
yes, thanks, it was easier than i thought
 
1:22 AM
@AlessandroCodenotti That would work. I was thinking about some ring of matrices
 
 
1 hour later…
2:34 AM
Hi, is it true that $\frac{\partial}{\partial q} = \frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}t} \frac{\partial}{\partial \dot{q}}$, where $\dot q = \frac{\mathrm{d}q}{\mathrm{d}t}$?
 
what would you consider $\frac{\partial}{\partial\dot{q}}q$ to be?
 
@AkivaWeinberger Then into what?
 
@arctictern Well, intuitively it's 0, since $q$ doesn't depend on $\dot{q}$. But it may be that my intuition may be wrong because I think about Classical Mechanics, where $q$ is a generalized coordinate and $\dot{q}$ is a generalized speed. Is this answer correct?
 
sometimes we have some multivariable function F(-,-) we want to evaluate at q and q' (and t), in which case to consider a partial derivative of F evaluated at q and q' you have to pretend q and q' are independent
(e.g. lagrangians, as semi said)
@mikeonly okay, so what happens if we apply both sides of your quality to $q$?
 
$\displaystyle \frac {\mathrm d} {\mathrm d\dot{q}} q = \frac {\frac {\mathrm dq} {\mathrm dt}} {\frac {\mathrm d\dot{q}} {\mathrm dt}}$, and don't ask me about $\partial$
 
2:45 AM
Fun fact: if $f(x,y,z)=0$ then $\displaystyle\frac{\partial x}{\partial y}\frac{\partial y}{\partial z}\frac{\partial z}{\partial x}=-1$.
 
Fun with partial derivatives.
 
@arctictern what if $f(x,y,z) \equiv 0$?
 
@arctictern That's would be a contradiction, since $\frac{\partial}{\partial q} q = 1 \neq 0 = \frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}t} \frac{\partial q}{\partial \dot{q}}$, right?
 
@mikeonly right
 
Hm. That's bad. I wanted to use that fact to prove one generally correct fact from Classical Mechanics about the Lagrangian.
 
2:48 AM
@DHMO $f$ should define a smooth surface around the point under consideration, of course
 
I'm trying to think if there's a thermodynamic application of that identity. It wouldn't shock me, given how much that subject loves partial derivative relations.
 
@mikeonly well, chain rule seems to give $\frac{{\rm d}}{{\rm d}t}=\frac{\partial}{\partial t}+\dot{q}\frac{\partial}{\partial q}+\frac{{\rm d}\dot{q}}{{\rm d}t} \frac{\partial}{\partial \dot{q}}$
 
Can someone explain to me intuitively why there are $2^\Bbb Q$ possible partitions of $\Bbb Q$?
 
@DHMO any function $\Bbb Q\to\Bbb Q$ partitions $\Bbb Q$ into fibers, so that gives an upper bound.
 
@arctictern fibers?
 
2:51 AM
@arctictern But is that true that $\dot{q}$ doesn't depend on $q$? It's physically sounds right, but mathematically we can express coordinates in terms of speed.
 
fiber means preimage of singleton set
@mikeonly of course $\dot{q}$ depends on $q$, you just temporarily pretend that $\dot{q}$ and $q$ are different letters of the alphabet when partially differentiating whatever expression you have for $F(t,q,\dot{q})$
 
@arctictern ok and then?
 
It's been a while, but I suspect it comes from the fact that the Euler-Lagrange equations express a variational principle.
 
@Semiclassical suspect what comes from EL?
 
Can someone explain to me intuitively why there are $2^\Bbb Q$ possible partitions of $\Bbb Q$ into two sets?
 
2:53 AM
The fact that $\dot{q}$ is independent of $q$ in Lagrangians.
 
@DHMO I understand it so that for each $q \in \mathbb{Q}$ you can decide whether it belongs to a set or not, so you get $2^{\mathbb{Q}}$ of sets.
 
@Semiclassical that's just an algebraic trick to actually apply the chain rule
@mikeonly huh?
 
@mikeonly but there are only $100$ ways to cut $100$ objects into two sets
 
@DHMO huh?
 
2:54 AM
@arctictern So each set can be expressed by sequence of 1's and 0's depending on whether it gets to a set or not.
 
@DHMO then $|\Bbb Q^{\Bbb Q}|=|2^{\Bbb Q}|$ might be your next thing, not sure if you consider that intuitive
 
@arctictern no, we have a misunderstanding
 
A binary number of 100 digits can represent a lot more than just 0-100 !
 
@Semiclassical that isn't what I'm asking
 
hi @ted
 
2:56 AM
howdy
 
We arrange the rational numbers in a line. Then, we choose a position to apply a cut in the middle, so that everything left of it is a set and everything right of it is another set. Then, there are $2^{\Bbb Q}$ possible cuttings.
 
so, you're talking about dedekind cuts?
yeash
 
Cool
 
@arctictern yes
 
How do you get $2^{\Bbb Q}$?
 
2:57 AM
the word "partition" has actual meaning in math, and it doesn't mean "dedekind cuts"
@TedShifrin dedekind cuts = real numbers = continuum
 
@TedShifrin they're essentially real numbers.
 
@DHMO For one arrangement of rationals you get only $\mathbb{Q}$ choice of where to place a cut.
 
@mikeonly that's intuitive. However the result is actually $2^\Bbb Q$ not $\Bbb Q$, which is unintuitive.
 
Yes, I know that ... But thinking about the problem as posed doesn't seem to give that, does it? If you didn't know the answer, how would you get it?
 
@TedShifrin exactly
@mikeonly you'll find that when dealing with infinities you get a lot of unintuitive results
 
2:59 AM
The point is that bounded sequences of rationals have cardinality $2^{\Bbb Q}$.
 
(and pretty much with anything also)
@TedShifrin why?
 
Why not? :)
 
@DHMO Yes, but in the case of placing cuts along the given line, result is not $\mathbb{Q}$.
 
@TedShifrin you mean the set of bounded sequences of rationals? are you sure that has cardinality $2^{\Bbb Q}$?
 
3:00 AM
@mikeonly how do you explain it?
 
Modulo an equivalence relation, I'm sure.
 
@TedShifrin So basically proof by appeal to Shifrinity
 
proof by intimidation
 
@arctictern why not? You can inject the reals into the set
 
@DHMO I can inject {0} into that set, doesn't mean it has cardinality 1
 
3:01 AM
(maybe unrelated) how do you prove that there is no injection from $5$ to $4$?
 
suppose there was
 
@arctictern well that's a response for if you think it has cardinality smaller than $2^\Bbb Q$
 
@DHMO huh?
 
@DHMO Well, given a sequence of $N$ elements, you can place a cut in $N$ different spots. But that doesn't give you all partitioning of $N$ elements, since by rearranging them you get different partitioning. Say, for a given line and all possible cuts there are no such sets, where the first and the last elements are together, if cut is not at the very beginning, or at the very end.
 
@arctictern you are doubting if it has cardinality $2^\Bbb Q$. What do you think instead?
 
3:02 AM
This conversation is why I stay away from set theory. Too many headaches.
2
 
@Semiclassical set theory is bae
 
@DHMO I am doubting if the set of all bounded sequences of rationals has cardinality $2^{\Bbb Q}$
 
LOL ... Headaches in everything you do mathematical, @Semiclassic. Go back to physics.
 
point.
 
@arctictern and what should be the cardinality instead?
 
3:02 AM
Oh, btw, I may be asked to be a physics tutor — so I might need help, @Semiclassic.
 
Neat.
 
I still think that by going through $\mathbb{Q}$ and choosing whether an elements belongs to $A$ or to $B$ (where $A$ and $B$ partition the rationals) you get $2^\mathbb{Q}$.
 
a 2-tor, if you will
 
@mikeonly I'm only choosing one arrangement...
 
@tern: I won't.
 
3:03 AM
lol, but I love set theory @Semiclassical
 
I just did my first real intro physics lab session of the semester this afternoon.
I always forget how exhausting that first one is.
 
Not as exhausting as spending 7 hours with 4th graders ...
 
I don't doubt you there.
 
Oh, only 6 hours.
 
@DHMO I suspect bigger. Note that you are talking about the set of dedekind cuts, which is not the set of bounded sequences of rationals. (And Ted amended his comment to now mean set of bounded sequences of rationals, modulo an equivalence relation.)
 
3:04 AM
@TedShifrin any minute is a headache
 
I do miss teaching, though.
 
@arctictern I think each element in the set can be represented by an element of $\Bbb R \times \Bbb R$, namely the infimum and the supermum, so it has cardinality $\Bbb R$, but I might as well be using my intuition badly
 
On the note of headaches, I did see your comment re: degree-genus.
 
@DHMO Well, if you ask about possible partitioning of $\mathbb{Q}$, you need to take all possible arrangements.
 
@DHMO you can have distinct bounded sequences that have the same infinimum and supremum
 
3:05 AM
Yeah, everything we (=I) were (=was) thinking I believe applied to irreducible curves in the first place.
 
Right.
 
@mikeonly I'm only talking about one arrangement. The result is that you have $2^\Bbb Q$ possible cuttings in the usual arrangement.
 
Indeed, @tern: uncountably many such.
 
@arctictern oh, I see
 
@DHMO Well, then it's indeed counterintuitive! Sorry for misunderstanding. I need to think about it now.
 
3:06 AM
BTW, tomorrow is a field trip to the wetlands for the kidlets to look at birds, among other things. But I don't think they see any terns.
 
10 mins ago, by DHMO
We arrange the rational numbers in a line. Then, we choose a position to apply a cut in the middle, so that everything left of it is a set and everything right of it is another set. Then, there are $2^{\Bbb Q}$ possible cuttings.
5 mins ago, by DHMO
(maybe unrelated) how do you prove that there is no injection from $5$ to $4$?
 
I did see an answer re: degree-genus for reducible curves, but the notation doesn' t make sense to me. math.stackexchange.com/a/743339/137524
 
@DHMO I thought you made a mistake there and tried to explain why. Where did you get this result from? Do you have a reference?
 
@mikeonly they're basically Dedekind cuts...
 
If $K$ is a canonical divisor, then what is $2g_a-2=C(C+K)$ supposed to mean?
 
3:08 AM
@Semiclassic: Yeah, I was too lazy to work that sort of thing out. But if you really care, I can explain the notation at some point.
 
@arctictern and then?
 
@DHMO Oh my.
 
I guess I'd just like to know what is actually meant there. I presume the implicit product $CK$ has some specific meaning.
Because otherwise wtf
 
@Semiclassic: We're intersecting two divisors (= sums of formal curves) in a surface. The curve $C$ with itself, and then $C$ with the canonical divisor (for which we have a formula, depending on the surface — in the case of $\Bbb P^2$, it's $-3$ times a line).
 
@mikeonly maybe you can deal with my second question in the meantime?
 
3:10 AM
I would write the formula with a dot: $C\cdot (C+K)$.
 
Okay. They do that in the final statement they give, but not before that.
Which is annoying.
 
@DHMO A bit later — definitely. Do you mean $\{4\} \rightarrow \{5\}$?
 
So the arithmetic genus of two $\Bbb P^1$'s, crossing with an ordinary double point, is still $0$, which is not what I was expecting.
 
@mikeonly no, $5 \to 4$.
 
I guess when I have time (in a few days) I'll work it out for three.
 
3:12 AM
Okay.
 
@mikeonly $5$ is a shorthand for $\{0,1,2,3,4\}$ and $4$ for $\{0,1,2,3\}$.
 
I remember seeing an answer somewhere that claimed the disjoint union of two P^1's to have arithmetic genus -1.
 
You're predicting the answer is $1$. (Originally, I thought it had to be $3$ because of the three nodes.)
 
@TedShifrin Linear algebra, topology... how many specialties do you have?
 
Well, I guess I need to work through the argument in that answer to be sure.
@DHMO: Basic undergraduate topics do not count.
 
3:13 AM
Let me find it. It was given as a simple example of arithmetic genus < 0.
 
@DHMO: You can start by looking at the titles of the 4 books I've written :P
 
@TedShifrin ...
 
It's the example at the end of the answer.
How many years were you teaching?
 
@TedShifrin what are some unintuitive results on linear algebra?
 
3:15 AM
Vector itself is a linear transformation? @DHMO
 
@Semiclassic: Hmm, Georges does not make mistakes. So the two formulas are at odds. I'll have to check that the formula your first post starts with is consistent with the one Georges starts with. I'll try to get to this on Friday.
 
@N1ng eh, vector can also be a matrix, so yeah
 
Right.
 
@DHMO: I think all of linear algebra (at least in finite dimensions) is totally intuitive.
 
I learn that from 3blue1brown's videos.
It's not intuitive for me. lol
 
3:16 AM
To me, that's a stooopid observation.
 
It depends on one's definition of intuition, of course.
 
Oh, @Semiclassic, Georges's example was two disjoint lines. Not the same.
 
@TedShifrin I don't think every vector has a dimension...
 
Sure, I was about to say. One has the double point, the other doesn't.
 
Every nonzero one does, @DHMO. What's the definition of direction?
 
3:17 AM
@TedShifrin sorry, typo
 
@Semiclassic: The other post's formula gives $-1$ in that case.
 
@TedShifrin classify triples of subspaces of V up to application of GL(V) :P
 
We could do the calculation in $\Bbb P^2$ blown up at a point (which is how we pulled our crossing lines apart in the first place).
 
Is that because $C_1\cdot C_2=1$ if there's a double point, but 0 if there isn't?
 
@tern: Well, that gets beyond elementary linear algebra.
@Semiclassic: Yes.
 
3:18 AM
Wedge sum versus disjoint sum, I guess.
 
@TedShifrin do you have vector spaces apart from $\Bbb R^n$?
 
@Semiclassic: The point is that the canonical bundle $K$ is different for $\Bbb P^2$ and $\widetilde{\Bbb P^2}$.
 
$\mathbb{R}[x]$.
 
Indeed, @DHMO.
For physics and most of math, $\mathscr L^2$ is super important.
 
@TedShifrin what is that? Please insult me by giving me a wiki link
 
3:20 AM
Square-integrable functions.
 
look up L^p space
 
ignoring technicalities, the vector space of square-integrable functions.
LOL ... I'd happily insult you, @DHMO, if I had one at my fingertips.
 
It's basically the workhorse of Fourier analysis (and a lot of quantum mechanics as well, for that matter).
 
In mathematics, a square-integrable function, also called a quadratically integrable function, is a real- or complex-valued measurable function for which the integral of the square of the absolute value is finite. Thus, if ∫ − ∞ ∞ | f ( x ) | 2 d x ≠ ∞ ( ...
@TedShifrin ^
 
There are probably better pages, with more complete info.
 
3:22 AM
@TedShifrin how can one prove that $[\Bbb R:\Bbb Q]=\aleph_0$? (Is it even true?)
 
And the stuff in quantum mechanics that isn't L^2 is mostly stuff about finite-dimensional vectors spaces---i.e., linear algebra :)
 
@TedShifrin I hope I didn't reverse the two sets
 
@DHMO: Why do you think that's true?
 
@TedShifrin I thought the rational basis of the reals is uncountable, oh wait that means it is $2^\Bbb N$
 
(At least, but, yes, right.)
 
3:24 AM
@TedShifrin I'm trying to remember. Did we say somewhere that arithmetic genus doesn't change if we smooth double points away?
 
and then how does one go about proving it?
 
That's what led me to all the problems, @Semiclassic. But, yes, in a family, arithmetic genus shouldn't change.
 
Okay. By contrast, it can change under blowing-up?
 
Yes, because under blowing-up to a smooth curve, the arithmetic genus becomes the geometric genus.
So a nodal cubic (which is the "pinched torus") has arithmetic genus $1$ but geometric genus $0$.
When we blow up the nodal cubic at its singular point, we get a $\Bbb P^1$.
@DHMO: I don't know offhand. There are uncountably many real numbers that are algebraically independent.
 
@TedShifrin you basically repeated the statement...
 
3:28 AM
Transcendentals are uncountable. The ones that are algebraically dependent upon one of them is a countable set. So it follows ...
 
@TedShifrin "The ones that are algebraically dependent upon one of them is a countable set"?
 
Yeah, because polynomials with rational coefficients form a countable set.
@DHMO: $\bigcup_{n=0}^\infty \Bbb Q^n$ is countable.
 
oh, ok
@TedShifrin How do you know that $5$ does not inject to $4$?
 
I look at my right hand and see my thumb.
 
hello, i'm new to graph theory, i'm learning basic things, eular circuit, path ,hamiltonian path, isomorphic graphs , can anyone please suggest me which books should i follow for practice problems with solutions
 
3:35 AM
Could 4 surject to 5? :P
 
?
 
@TedShifrin how does one prove that $4$ does not surject to $5$?
 
@DHMO: Proceed inductively. Surely you can prove 2 doesn't inject to 1.
 
@Semiclassical if only set theory is that intuitive
 
For finite sets it really is. You give a one-to-one mapping and show that there are elements left over.
 
3:36 AM
@DHMO: I dare you to count to 5 using just 1,2,3,4.
 
@TedShifrin so I need to prove that "5 injects to 4" implies "4 injects to 3"?
 
You could do that, yes.
5 goes somewhere. Remove both 5 and that number.
 
@TedShifrin 5 doesn't contain 5
 
Oh give me a break.
 
I suppose 1 does not inject to 0 because...?
 
3:39 AM
We're not doing a mapping to the empty set.
 
I suppose we are doing induction?
 
I suggested you start with 2->1, not 1->0.
 
@TedShifrin I thought 1->0 would be easier
 
Anyhow, I'm out of here. Dinner to go to elsewhere. Have fun.
No, 2->1 is immediate.
Try writing down the definition of injection.
 
@TedShifrin Night.
 
3:42 AM
ok thanks
 
Hi and bye @Ted
 
Deja vu!!
 
Suppose $f:2 \to 1$ is injective.
From the definition of $1$, $x \in 1 \equiv x = 0$.
From the definition of injective, $f(0) \ne f(1)$.
However, $f(0),f(1) \in 1$.
Therefore, $f(0) = 0$ and $f(1) = 0$.
Contradiction.
Suppose $f:1\to0$ is injective.
From the definition of $\to$, $f(0) \in 0$.
However, $\not\exists x:x\in0$.
Contradiction.
 
4:06 AM
can someone give me a tad bit of help in filling a particular form?
 
4:20 AM
@TedShifrin I'm having a bit of trouble proving that $k^{++}$ injects to $k^+$ implies $k^+$ injects to $k$...
 
4:32 AM
@DHMO What if you assume that $k^+$ injects into $k$, but $k^{++}$ doesn't inject into $k^+$?
Or by induction, from your previous argument you want to show that since there is no injection from $k^+$ to $k$, then $k^{++}$ does not inject into $k^+$ either.
 
@mikeonly a contradiction can prove that k+ injects to k => k++ injects to k+, but not the other way round...
 
Right. :)
What if $k^+$ injects to $k$, but $k^{++}$ does not inject to $k^+$? Would this work?
Anyhow, I think induction would be a more direct proof,
 
@mikeonly you just asked the same question...
 
Oops, sorry.
I meant the other way around.
 
then you just asked the question that I asked
 
4:44 AM
If you assume that $k^{++}$ injects into $k^+$, then take any $x \in k^{++}$ and remove it from $k^{++}$. Do you $k^{++} - x = k^+$?
At least you can permute $k^{++} - x$ and get $k^+$.
 
@mikeonly how do you prove this statement?
 
@DHMO Do you know the number of elements in $k^{++}$?
 
@mikeonly any appeal to "cardinality" will be circular if not difficult to prove
 
any moderators in here?
 
@copper.hat I'm afraid not
you can always flag for moderation though
 
4:50 AM
@DHMO: Thanks!
 
Is $k = \{n \in \mathbb{N} : n < k\}$?
 
I'm just curious about a bunch of recent downvotes and have a suspicion about it and was wondering if I could verofy :-).
(And if I can spell :-)).
 
@mikeonly basically
 
Or is 0 included?
So then you now there is $k-1$ elements in $k$ if 0 is out and $k$ elements with 0.
 
@mikeonly yes
3 mins ago, by DHMO
@mikeonly any appeal to "cardinality" will be circular if not difficult to prove
 
4:53 AM
In this case there is no cardinality yet, I think.
 
alright, continue
$0 \in \Bbb N$ here
 
Well, let $k^{++} - x$ be such a set after you removed a point from this set. Since you assume that $\exists f$ injection, $f: k^{++} - x \rightarrow k^{+} - f(x)$ is still an injection.
 
Another way to formulate the question, motivated the von Neumann construction of ordinals: Can there be an surjection from a set $S$ to $S\cup \{S\}$?
(The second set is how the successor of S is defined in that context.)
 
@DHMO Now, take a bijection from $k^{++} - x$ to $k^+$ and do a similar thing with $k^{+} - f(x)$. Now, by induction hypothesis, there is no injections from $k^{+}$ to $k$, but composition of bijections and $f$ gives you an injection. Therefore, contradiction.
 
@mikeonly how you prove that $k^+ - f(x)$ bijects with $k$ is another problem
 
5:03 AM
@DHMO Well, you know that $\text{card}(k^+ - f(x)) = \text{card}(k)$. By definition it implies existence of bijections.
 
Woops, need $S$ to be finite for the above to be sound.
 
14 mins ago, by DHMO
@mikeonly any appeal to "cardinality" will be circular if not difficult to prove
@Semiclassical that is indeed equivalent to finiteness
 
guys I just completed an application to a university and I was 4 minutes later than the deadline, should I be too worried about it?
 
What is, the existence of such a surjection?
 
@DHMO You need to start somewhere! If two sets have the same number of elements, than there is a bijection.
 
5:05 AM
That's not a good starting point for infinite sets.
 
But that's how infinite cardinality is defined, as I understand.
 
@mikeonly now that is circular. We say that the cardinalities of two sets are the same if there is a bijection.
 
@mikeonly Wouldn't the definition be the converse of that?
That is: If there's a bijection between two sets, then they have the same cardinality.
 
Headache. So soon.
 
@Semiclassical I didn't say that it is a definition, I just said that they are equivalent.
 
5:07 AM
Wasn't replying to you there, to clarify.
 
I am actually taking a class with this things this term.
@Semiclassical I guess you are right.
Let me see.
 
@mikeonly then you should clarify your concept
 
Upvote dat chit, pls
It is the culmination of my work ._.
 
Simplest way to avoid circularity is to work with mappings and only talk about cardinalities at the end.
 
So we want to show that there is a bijection from $k^+ - f(x)$ to $k$, right?
 
5:10 AM
yes
 
@DHMO Going back a bit: I can definitely believe that "$S\cup \{S\}$ injects into $S$" is equivalent to "$S$ is not finite."
But am I correct in thinking that that's just the same problem you're working on now, i.e. how to prove that?
(or at least one direction of it.)
 
@Semiclassical perhaps
 
If $S\cup\{S\}$ injects into $S$, then $S$ is not finite" is a rather nice sounding statement, I think.
 
yes it is
 
Particularly since it doesn't assume anything about the cardinality of $S$.
As to whether it's easier to prove than what you're doing...Oh hey, look over there! flees
 
5:21 AM
Can we prove that there is no set between 0 and 1?
 
I'm not even sure what that would mean.
 
"there exists set S injective to 0 surjective to 1 but bijects with neither"
swap injective and surjective, my typo.
 
I mean, the Von-Neumann definitions of 0 and 1 are $\{\}$ and $\{\{\}\}$.
 
yes they are
 
And, well, I'm not sure how you define bijections on the empty set :/
 
5:24 AM
just like how you define bijection with any set
 
@DHMO What if you enumerate all elements in $k^+ - f(x) =k^+ -1$ and $k$ by order? Assume there is such $k_0 \in k$, which is not in $k^1 - 1$. Then for each $k < k_0$ you can map bijectively from $k^+ - 1$ to $k$. Map all $k \geq k_0$ to $k + 1$, which will also give you a bijection. Will the second map work from the definitions of those sets $k$?
If there is no such $k_0$ in $k$, then you can map to $k^+ - 1$ just by identity.
 
A simpler question which doesn't mention 1 at all. Show that the only set that bijects with the empty set is itself.
 
@Semiclassical a weaker formulation: the empty set surjects only itself
 
Yeah.
 
I had to sanity check myself super hard earlier on whether there can exist a function $f : A \rightarrow \emptyset$ if $A$ is nonempty. (No.)
Mostly because I was like, "I know $\emptyset$ is initial in Set, but why isn't it final like the singletons, with the unique morphism as the empty function?" (Because.)
 
5:45 AM
$\forall a: a \in A \implies f(a) \in \varnothing$.
However, $\nexists x: x \in \varnothing$.
Therefore, $\nexists a: a \in A$.
Therefore $a = \varnothing$.
 
@DHMO Yup.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:06 AM
@PVAL How difficult is it to write down a careful proof of existence of proper Morse functions? ie could you or I do it? I don't really want to think very hard about it.
It seems to me I can do it if I know the existence of a proper function to [0,\infty) but that it would be a pain.
OK yeah I have a proof. But I don't know if it's something I would assign to students.
 
@DHMO how do you define $k^+$ without mentioning cardinality?
 
7:34 AM
@AlessandroCodenotti k+ := k U {k}
 
Ah, you're talking about ordinals, not cardinals
That's usually denoted $k+1$ since $k^+$ is used for successor cardinals
 
ok
 
8:21 AM
Salut
Hi
@DHMO une petite inégalité circulaire : $\cos(ab)^2\geq \cos(a^2)\times cos(b^2),\text{ pour }a,b\in [-1,1] \text{ ?}$
 
8:40 AM
@Dattier salut
j'ai aucune idee
 
Hello!!

I want to simply the expression $(A\cup B)\cap (A\cup B')\cap (A'\cup B)$.
Using the formulas $A\cap (B\cup C)=(A\cap B)\cup (A\cap C)$ and $A\cup (B\cap C)=(A\cup B)\cap (A\cup C)$ I found thatthe expression is equivalent to $A\cup B$. I this correct?
 
@Secret you can post the chain here:
96
Q: What are some examples of a mathematical result being counterintuitive?

Steven-OwenAs I procrastinate studying for my Maths Exams, I want to know what are some cool examples of where math counters intuition. My first and favorite experience of this is Gabriel's Horn that you see in intro Calc course, where the figure has finite volume but infinite surface area (I later learned...

@MaryStar transform the problem into a logic problem
(a+b)(a-b)(-a+b) = (aa+ab+a(-b)+0)(-a+b) = (a+a(b-b))(-a+b) = (a+a)(-a+b) = 0+ab = ab
here product is and, sum is or, negate is negate, 0 is false
 
8:58 AM
penses-tu que cela ferais une bonne question ?
 
oui
 
sachant que je connais une réponse
désolé une erreur de manip de part
@DHMO que penses-tu du titre
Circular inequality
 
juste mets l'inegalite sur le titre
 
merci
Qu'en penses-tu ?
 
@Dattier je viens de dire que j'ai aucune idee
 
9:11 AM
Non, tu ne m'as pas compris, la question est-elle compréhensible ?
y-a-t-il quelque chose de reprochables ?
 
"pour"
 
par rapport à ligne éditoriale du site
 
ok
 

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