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12:00 AM
Lovely.
 
@TedShifrin I really need more practise in linear algebra
 
Ok, I should be going to sleep now. Have to wake up early for the chemistry tutorial.
 
Tutorial on Sunday?
 
The thing I'm trying to understand the significance of though are spinors and the double-cover of $SO(4)$ by $SU(2)$
 
Oh wait ... you're a day ahead.
 
12:04 AM
@TedShifrin Nah, it is Sunday.
But yes
 
High school tutorials on Sundays? Blasphemy.
 
Heh
 
@TedShifrin where $A$ is orthogonal, $B$ and $C$ are diagonal, I have no idea how to find $\operatorname{tr}(ABA^TC)$
 
Apparently some people think its really important that the Lorentz Metric for 4-vectors can be though of as arising from a symplectic form on $SL(2, \mathbb{C})$. I fail to see why this is exciting
 
@Leaky: All I can contribute is that $\text{tr}(XY) = \text{tr}(YX)$.
 
12:07 AM
@Ted Oh I mean it's not organized by the school. It's a private tutorial. Someone I know is going to teach me a bunch of crapshit chemistry
Just to clarify
 
@TedShifrin so we can't actually find it?
 
Ohhhh ...
In terms of what, Leaky?
 
the entries in $B$ and $C$
 
Yes, you can.
Use what I just told you, and use what orthogonal means.
 
4 mins ago, by Leaky Nun
@TedShifrin I really need more practise in linear algebra
 
12:09 AM
@Kevin: You wrote something impossible above. $SO(4)$ is $6$-dimensional and $SU(2)$ is 3-dimensional.
@Leaky: I'm not giving it away. Just use your brain.
 
6 real-dimensional then?
@TedShifrin I know, I don't want to see the answer anyway
 
Everything is real dimensions. There are no complex Lie groups there.
 
$SU(2) \times SU(2)$
 
@TedShifrin Ya I mean $SU(2) \times SU(2)$
 
is the double cover
 
12:10 AM
<--- is supposed to be a mind reader?
 
No, just me being sloppy because this is one other those 'standard facts' that all physicists are supposed to no but virtually none understand
 
This is part of those exceptional isomorphisms that show up in Lie theory. Anon can explain it to you just fine.
 
it lets you get the irreducible reps of SO(4) from SU(2) which is pretty cool
 
Oh, Eric can probably explain it, too, with his newfound rep theory background.
I should be able to, but I'm retired :P
 
@TedShifrin I can't split the product, I can't commute the matrices, and I don't find any arrangement that trivialize the problem, since one has $ABA^TC$, $BA^TCA$, $A^TCAB$, and $CABA^T$, so I can't annihiliate $A$ and $A^T$... am I missing something obvious?
 
12:13 AM
Leaky. It makes me angry when you ignore things I explicitly tell you to use.
 
I used your formula to give those cycles...
 
Although maybe you didn't ... maybe you're just being too unclever.
Why cycles?
 
because $\operatorname{tr}(ABC) = \operatorname{tr}(A(BC)) = \operatorname{tr}((BC)A)$
by your formula
 
Can't you do more than that?
 
I can't just swap any two of the matrices inside
 
12:15 AM
Oh. Hmm. Maybe I'm being wrong.
pseudo-apologizes
 
that's one of those "obvious" theorems that's actually wrong
 
@TedShifrin no problem
 
that trace should be preserved under permuting the product
 
is the kernel of trace exactly the skew-symmetric matrices?
 
NO.
 
12:16 AM
nvm, trivially no
I just realized that's a stupid question
 
You do get $tr(A B C) = tr( (A C B)^T)$ though, right?
 
@KevinDriscoll how?
that's equivalent to proving $\operatorname{tr}(ABC) = \operatorname{tr}(ACB)$ which is false
 
Oh, Leaky, you have $A$ orthogonal, so maybe it's useful to note that $A^\top = A^{-1}$.
 
@TedShifrin do you have the answer already?
 
No, I only had it when I was wrong.
 
12:18 AM
OH ya no sorry. That's me forgetting that Im used to Hermitian matricies
 
why not test it against small matrices to try to come up with something
 
@LeakyNun What do you want to write the answer in terms of?
 
@KevinDriscoll entries in $B$ and $C$?
It might not be possible though
I just need to bound it...
above $0$...
 
Yeah, I don't think there's anything good, Leaky.
 
12:25 AM
thanks
 
Bound it? What do you know about $B$ and $C$?
 
they have non-negative entries
 
Aha.
So you mean bound it below by $0$?
Obviously the answer could be $0$.
 
yes
 
Not that I can see. Because $A^T B A$ is similar to some matrix $D$ with the same eigenvalues. But now you've split up the eigenvalues and so when you multiple by $C$ and trace, you get $\Sigma \lambda_{c,i} D_{ii}$ where $\lambda$ are the eigenvalues of $C$ and $D_{ii}$ are the diagonal entries of D. BUt that doesnt obviously factor into anything nice
 
12:28 AM
the eigenvalues are all inside $B$...
 
Indeed they are, but when you transform using $A$, what ends up on the diagonal depends on the $A$ that you use
 
wait
we do know that $\langle Ax,x \rangle > 0$ if $A$ is positive definite
in particular $\langle Ae_1, e_1 \rangle > 0$
i.e. its diagonal entries are all positive
thanks everyone @TedShifrin @KevinDriscoll
 
But the product of positive definites needn't be positive definite, Leaky.
It's true if they commute.
 
$C$ is diagonal
 
So what?
 
12:30 AM
it scales every row/column
 
Diagonals don't commute with non-diagonals unless they're scalar multiples of the identity.
 
each diagonal entry is scaled by each corresponding entry in $C$
$ABA^T$ is positive definite
 
I don't care.
 
$C$ is a positive diagonal matrix
it scales every row of $ABA^T$ by a positive amount
so every diagonal entry of $ABA^T$ is scaled by a positive amount
 
Ah, OK, so you're not claiming that the resulting product is still positive-definite.
 
12:32 AM
but every diagonal entry of $ABA^T$ is positive because that is just $e_i^T ABA^T e_i$
 
OK.
That is a good exercise you for you, though. Show that the product of two positive definite matrices is positive definite when they commute, but not in general.
 
We have the infinite binary number $\overline{01}=0,010101010101\ldots$. I want to find which number $x=\frac{p}{q}$ defines that dual number.

The length of period is 2. If we had decimal numbers we would multiply $x=0,010101010101\ldots$ by 100 and then subtract x at both sides, right?

What do we do now where we have binary numbers? Do we multiply $x=0,010101010101\ldots$ by $2^2$ ?
 
@MaryStar yes
or view it as a problem in geometric series
 
@TedShifrin this reminds me of a problem Schlag gave us, he was like "Prove this isn't true in general, find a condition that makes it true"
 
I like problems like that, Demonark.
 
12:36 AM
Later in an email: "Make it a substantial condition, don't just let $A=0$"
 
Sorta like "Prove or give a counterexample."
 
Yeah I like those and the "true or false" questions of Marianna
 
LOL, yeah, I had to add "nonzero" when I corrected some stuff in my multivariable math book.
 
That sounds good becasue its open-ended. I was wondering the other day how you can teach math grad students by always doing problems that say "Prove X" and then they get to research and theres no one telling them what to prove
And really thats true not just of math
 
problems like that are actually good models for like figuring stuff out in a setting where you cant just look things up
 
12:37 AM
@Kevin: Good thing to think about. I tried to assign some more challenging problems of various sorts in first/second year grad courses.
Trying to puzzle through deep papers is also useful, Kevin.
 
"Prove or provide a counterexample"-exercises tend to be good.
 
that gets you to think about why something should or shouldnt be true more deeply i think
 
If we want to use geometric series do we write $x=0,010101010101\ldots=\sum_{k=1}^{\infty}a_k\cdot \frac{1}{2^k}$, where $a_k=0$ if k is odd and $a_k=1$ if k is even ?

So, $x=\sum_{i=1}^{\infty}a_{2i}\cdot \frac{1}{2^{2i}}=\sum_{i=1}^{\infty} \frac{1}{4^i}=\sum_{i=0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{4^i}-1=\frac{1}{1-\frac{1}{4}}-1=\frac{4}{3}-1=\frac{1}{3}$

Is this correct?
 
Actually I remember one problem which I liked quite a bit from Marianna
She gave an argument for something which was wrong but which really looked correct
 
At least in other disciplines you can give a problem and not say what the answer is. Then whent he student gets an answer they have to think on whether its right or not. For me at least, proofs have to be iron-clad. I think our grader might hate me because I run down some trivial shit in my homework solutions so I can be omre confident in my answer.
 
12:39 AM
And was like "This is a contradiction, find the error"
 
Oh, I have a standard problem I assign in grad manifolds, Demonark. Griffiths once gave a totally false proof (without realizing it was false) and it bothered me for ages. So I started assigning it as a "What's wrong with this?" problem.
It's about invariant differential forms when you have a manifold $G/H$.
 
Beautiful
 
oh i remember that problem @Daminark
 
Heh, we have a professor which does evil stuff like that
 
@Kevin: The issue that bothers me — and bothered me a lot when I graded students — is belaboring trivial details and totally handwaving the hard ones.
 
12:41 AM
He writes some lemma on the blackboard and proves it; then he writes down a counterexample to his lemma.
"So, which one is wrong and which one isn't?"
 
That's actually very instructive, @Tasty. I like that. Not every day, but I like it.
 
@MaryStar yes, that is correct, but you should stick to your original approach since it would give more insight
@TastyRomeo what is it?
 
@Eric that, the problem about whether typical continuous functions map first cat to measure zero, and the one from the final about showing Besicovitch in R^2 fails with constant 4 are my favorite problems from that class
 
@TastyRomeo what if he broke mathematics and both are right?
 
@LeakyNun Ah ok! But do we multiply $x=0,010101010101\ldots$ by $2^2$ ?
 
12:42 AM
Then it's time for a table flip and finding a new job
 
the other two are good but i recall the first one being too easy to be interesting
 
@MaryStar Ich hatte ja gesagt
 
wasnt the contradiction really obvious
 
He once was so evil to have both his proof and the counterexample wrong, actually (though the statement itself was right)
 
Tasty: It sounds like you learned a lot from him and actually respect him.
 
12:43 AM
But it teaches you to be careful, still
Yup, I did/do indeed.
 
@TastyRomeo I like that
 
This is very thoughtful teaching, not unpreparedness.
 
It was short enough, but it was cute. The one about Besicovitch failing with constant 4 was also a 20-30 minute ordeal but it was still just nice
 
I've pulled that a few times, but not often.
 
@TedShifrin do you have examples?
 
12:44 AM
There's a place in differential topology where I definitely gave a false proof and then asked students what was wrong with it.
 
Soug did that a bunch as well but... Not intentionally
 
@LeakyNun Oh.. I meant "how" can we do that multiplication
 
@MaryStar think about what multiplication by $10^2$ means in base 10, and do the same for base 2
 
i think i knew saw the contradiction before i finished reading the problem or something
it was like, "points need not be nowhere dense"
 
Leaky: I know a proof that lots of students have given me in topology that doesn't use compactness enough and I draw a counterexample every time.
But I had others in class, yes.
 
12:45 AM
or something like that
 
I mean you're quite a bit faster than I am, it took me 30 minutes ish of staring to figure it out
 
30 minutes is nothing, Demonark. Try 30 days.
 
I mean of course, I'm just saying it wasn't completely trivial. That or I'm slow
It took me long enough that it was interesting
 
one of my pde problems this quarter took me a month lol
 
Hell, research took me years.
 
12:48 AM
Multiplication by 10^2 would mean that we shift the comma two places to the right. So, if this the same in base 2 do we get $4\cdot x=1,0101010101\ldots$ ?
Then we subtract from x and we get $4 x-x=1,0101010101\ldots-x$, so $3x=1 \Rightarrow x=\frac{1}{3}$.

Is everything correct?
 
something about extending regularity on the boundary to the interior so that good boundary values get you good solutions
it was crazy hard
 
When you get stalled for that long, how do you not get discouraged?
 
@MaryStar yes
 
What's Alessandro doing here? It's the middle of the night.
 
Great!! Thank you!! :-) @LeakyNun
 
12:49 AM
I'm worried about time with this upcoming difftop final. Etnyre said it was going to be like a comprehensive exam. And doing the homework takes me ages. I get full marks, but only because I spend a lot fo time and go to office hours.
 
Being able to put a problem aside and leave it alone for months/years was a hard thing to learn when first doing research
 
Kevin: I don't know what his course is like, but my exams were always more like the basic to medium homework, never the hardest.
 
Like I've never had the will to spend more than a 10-15 hours on Marianna's problems before copping out
 
Kevin, I could send you my exams from diff top, but the courses were rather different.
 
@Ted I struggle with how much to mark off when the students in this Group Theory in Quantum Mechanics class hand-wave hard stuff. If it were a pure physics class I wouldnt care so much, but its sort of an applied math class.
 
12:50 AM
Well, you should have asked the prof what style he wanted you to grade.
 
Let $\varphi(n)$ denote the sentence "$n$ does not encode a proof of $0=1$". Then, $\forall n \varphi(n)$ is basically the consistency statement of PA. By second Godel's incompleteness theorem, PA does not prove $\forall n \varphi(n)$, so $PA \cup \{\exists n \neg \varphi(n)\}$ is consistent assuming that $PA$ is consistent, so by completeness theorem, there is a model of PA such that $\exists n \neg \varphi(n)$ is true, but clearly $\varphi(n)$ is true for every natural, so what's wrong?
 
I'm going to ask him on Tuesday about how difficult he expects the exam question to be, and then make plans based on what he says
 
"how difficult" is often in the eye of the beholder
 
@TedShifrin His attitude when it comes to all thing grading-wise seems to be "you're the TA, you can decide"
 
@Daminark when i get discouraged from working for a while on a problem i just cook food to get my mind off of it and then go back to it
it helps that i literally had a month to do the pset
 
12:52 AM
That's crap on the part of the prof, Kevin. It's his course, not yours. But this is why I preferred to do my own grading.
 
Lol in discrete I approached the prof quite a lot being like "Uh..."
 
sometimes TAs are really bad at grading
 
especially for you, Demonark, since you're an undergrad and haven't done grading before
sometimes? most often.
they often don't care, and they often need more time than they have or get paid for.
 
having worked hard to be a decent TA i feel like a lot of my graders have really suuuucked
 
I was talking to the prof at UGA who's teaching undergrad real analysis, and he was given a grad student grader for a class with 35 students for a total of 3 hours of grading. Useless.
 
12:54 AM
literally can't do a good job in that scenario
 
@TedShifrin Ya I like this Professor, but being the TA for this has been odd at times. I've never gotten a handle on exactly what his expectations are for the course and the students. Per usual, in hindsight I shouldve tried to communicate about it more.
 
The only course (other than my own) for which I graded as a grad student was Chern's diff geo (which I was also helping to lecture a bit).
 
one of my alg top graders is super bad tbh
 
Alg top is hard to grade, admittedly.
 
Yeah, like I've found at the beginning of the quarter, since Laci would never tell us how much to knock off without asking us how much we'd knock off, for a number of problems I was quite a bit off
 
12:55 AM
Is a picture sufficient? What the hell does this picture mean? Etc.
 
my last pset only had points removed when i used contractions instead of using full words
 
That grader is lazy and incompetent, Eric.
 
In my alg top course I tried to draw pictures, but I was so bad at it that I wrote to explain what I inteded to draw
 
there were no math errors either, i worked really damn hard, and then i get points off for saying can't?
like what?
 
I would raise holy hell, Eric.
 
12:57 AM
Hi again everyone
 
My name is Kevin Driscoll, and for the course I'm TAing right now, I am a bad TA. I don't really know the material. And the solutions provided to me are not very detailed. And I don't really have the time to learn the material and write my own solutions, so I kind of do my best. But overall I'd still give myself low marks on an instructor survey.
 
it's past your bedtime, Perturb.
 
my pset/midterm grades are good enough that i dont have to say anything and id rather not make it a thing
 
@TedShifrin I am following Balarka's path, I slept at 9AM yesterday :p
 
Kevin, are we at a GA (graders anonymous) meeting?
 
12:58 AM
pls love yourself @Perturbative
 
Eric: I still think professors should know and so should the grad coordinator. But I'm a stickler.
 
@EricSilva There's this experimental physics prof in my uni who takes out marks for physics prac reports when people put headings in italics
 
@Ted Just for a brief moment, yes. I would;ve felt guilty for not admitting it
 
I lost a point for stapling the pieces of paper together with a tacker on the wrong side. I'm not kidding
 
12:59 AM
This shit drives me crazy, Mathei
 
o.O
 
@LeakyNun In a model for ${\sf PA}\cup\{\exists n:\lnot\phi(n)\}$, $~n$ will be a nonstandard element (larger than all the standard elements, aka infinitely large)
 
@Ted i think they should too but i just dont wanna spend the time explaining my complaints when ive got other classes to worry about
 
After hearing all this stuff from you guys I think at this point I worship my algebra TA
 
@AkivaWeinberger nice
 
12:59 AM
The paper stapling or the TA stuff? @TedShifrin :p
 
@AkivaWeinberger this demonstrates that consistency does not imply omega-consistency
 

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