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02:00 - 13:0015:00 - 00:00

02:52
@EricStucky hi
hey there :)
hwo goes?
my example still works, so I'm happy
I tried about 20 things before I found it
now I'm listening to the Grateful Dead, typing the proof
how about you?
Well I need to have a place to live in a couple months
so I'm trying to figure that out now
02:55
oh I hate that
quiet is most important, and hard to find
My required workload for the weekend is very low this time though; I get a lot of freedom to do things I want :)
True
especially in a college town
My aunt knows the area pretty well and she's going to help out, but I still need to pick the general locations tonight
I feel like it's 1970
lel que?
02:59
hah because I'm listening to the Grateful Dead
ah jeje I see :)
not that I was alive then...
@EricStucky what is your specialty?
haha here comes the spiel :P
I have the most experience in combinatorics, I like everything I've seen in topology, and I'm working right now to learn the basics of probability theory
Which is a longwinded way of saying that I don't know but I get my letters written by the combo profs :P
I am not one for probability theory
what does that mean?
oh ok
the combo professors like your work
eh, maybe?
Honestly it's mostly that one of the profs in particular is pretty approachable, so I approach him a lot :P
03:13
my aversion to combinatorics, probability, etc, is mainly psychological
Somewhat less flippantly, because my undergrad research was pretty much all combo, they are the ones who can speak best to the work that I've already done, rather than the work they expect me to do
Which is obviously useful in a letter of rec
oh yeah?
yeah because I prefer to do math that is useful only to other mathematicians :)
so you have done undergrad research?
yes :)
like what problem did you work on?
I did undergrad research in topology and I've been doing it ever since...
O.O
how do you do undergrad research in topology
03:16
well, ok, it wasnt really research
mainly understanding some advanced constructions
but there are plenty of unanswered questions in topology ya know
(Most recently, my senior thesis advisor thinks there should be a genuine combinatorial proof of the Kasteleyn formula)
Oh ofc
but it seems to be pretty highfalutin stuff, in general
yeah finite math is not really my strong point, but I do like some graph theory
did you know that graph theory is like hella popular?
I never really realized this, somehow
03:26
oh yes it is
at my graduate school like 1/2 of the grad students are in graph theory
because it is a relatively new area of math
topology has been around for 100 years
but graph theory only like 40
haha so you put topolgy with Poincaré?
yeah it goes back to him
That seems fair
03:28
Poincare, Alexandroff, a few others
Hmm that's interesting
I usually think of Poincaré as the beginning of algebraic topoology, specifically. But I don't know anything that was done before him, now that I think of it
the longer it's been around, the harder it is to do something original :)
yeah he was one of the first for sure
Except Euler with graphs and his characteristic :P
that's not really topology though
I mean, you could call analysis topology
but it's too specific
but yeah graph theory and combinatorics are hot
cause they are new
lol combo is not new
people just didn't give it a name forever :P
03:33
maybe, I don't know a lot about it
lots of grad students do it though
Probably also partly because reasoning about graphs is super useful in computers
so the party line that I hear about the uptick in combo recently is
yes that is one reason for it populatiry, because it is useful
that it conicides pretty well with the rise of REUs
what is REU?
03:34
and undergraduate research being a generally valued part of professor's jobs
undergrad research?
"research experience for undergraduates" yeah
b/c obviously there are a lot of really easily-stated and not-too-hard problems that you can give to REU students
because to undergraduates, combinatorics is more natural than some other areas where they have to learn tons of definitions
but I'm simply not good at it
03:36
:P yeaah
I like to bend and stretch!
what's happening guys/gals
looking at PVAL's comment to the right
why is Hausdorff not included in the definition of topology?
cause frankly it is really easy to get non-Hausdorff counterexamples to the big beautiful theorems
I always figured that it was just because it was too complicated but
I suspect that Bourbaki played an influential role
they did a lot of algebraic geometry, right?
03:41
oh god not them
And AG has the Zariski topology, which isn't Hausdorff
I mean, historically, Hausdorff did define topologies with the Hausdorff condition
so at some point it got removed
I don't actually know the history but good old Nick seems to be a likely candidate
yeah I guess people wanted to generalize
but for goodness sake, if you can't separate two points with neighborhoods...
There's a really good answer about what topology actually axiomatizes on MO but I can't find it rn :(
or neighourhoods
03:45
in the british
:)
I used to write that... so pretentious
Neigh-Our-Hoods?
@MickLH I don't get it :(
@ForeverMozart There was a letter 'b' missing from this word, so I split it into three words instead.
oh lel I didn't see that XD
lol!
I didn't spell the misspelling correctly
03:47
@ForeverMozart Isn't this... by definition?
Sorry, I'm in a strange state of mind
yeah you just gave me a headache... :)
Lol, well I'm asking myself how to Iterated Function Systems
So me too
jfc now there's my psychological trigger XD
just another evening with hippie music and autocad
:)'
04:10
@EricStucky In fact for Bourbaki, compact would mean quasicompact (usual modern definition of compact) and Hausdorff.
wait what?
they say compact, and it means modern-quasicompact + Hausdorff?
did I read that right?
Ya thats right
what is quasicompact?
@PVAL
quasicompact is the same condition most books teach as compact now.
you know I love formal mathematics, but most of my original constructions are very intuitive
04:16
In the Bourbaki texts (and in others including Hartshorne), compact implictly means Hausdorff.
well compactification, for instance, is Hausdorff unless otherwise specified
04:34
@MickLH heard of Com Truise?
05:12
yeah but haven't listened to much
AFAIK, quasicompact is used mostly by people working with schemes ... It never comes up in analysis or differential geometry, that I've seen.
05:25
drivin that train, high on cocaine...
hehe
just kiddin
@TedShifrin hows it going?
heya @Forever
Hey Ted!
you still at UGA @TedShifrin ?
hi @Eric ... Long time no see!
indeed :)
05:37
I knew an undergrad there a few years ago... Irby something
I retired, @Forever, so, no. I now live in San Diego, although I'm teaching a long-distance course to two of my great former students.
I know a student whose last name is Irby. He was briefly a math major and in one of my classes.
@TedShifrin ever have a student named Irby, Matthew I think?
Yup.
Small world.
wow very cool
He's now a computer science major. Math wasn't for him.
How did you know him?
05:38
I havent seen him in a few years
yeah our parents were friends for some time
He and I are Facebook friends, so I'm still in touch ... Ah, cool. I originally met him because he interacted a lot with one of my former students who teaches math at Univ West Georgia.
small world indeed, I just remembered he went there and you taught there
yeah, I advised him to take the Spivak Calculus w/Theory class, and he spent a few weeks in my multivariable math class, before we agreed that he would be happier doing computer science ... Neat kid, though.
@EricStucky: Where have you disappeared to?
jeje I don't know when you saw me last
I'm in grad school now
cap
cap
hi. in the quadratic ring of integers $\mathbb{Z}[\sqrt{D}]$, why does one consider the cases $D=1,2,3 \mod 4$?
05:44
Well over a year, I imagine. Cool ... where?
oh, good for you, @EricS.
hehe thank you :)
@cap: Well, what cases you would you rather consider? Are you asking why $D=0\pmod 4$ isn't listed?
What kind of math are you doing, @EricS?
that's a shame he didn't finish in math. I talked to him after his freshman year... I should have tried to convince him
05:45
Well if you ask anyone else around they'll say combinatorics
but I'm not totally convinced myself :)
cap
cap
Why $\mod 4$?
I like what I've seen in topology, just keeps getting more interesting
he's probably graduated by now, who knows what he's doing. It's strange how you lose track of people
@EricS: I have never been good at counting things, but I learned a little bit of combinatorics/probability a year ago teaching probability before I retired.
No, @Forever, he's got a ways to go. He really should have been in computer science from the beginning. We needn't talk everyone into math.
Because that's the fewest possible cases to study, @cap, and it breaks down naturally according to that. You should ask an algebraic number theorist for a definitive answer.
@EricS: What topology are you taking so far?
Probability has always sort of been in the background for me
05:48
I loved teaching/learning it. I regret not having done so 25 years ago.
I think I taught a damn good course, too. Except for the bottom third of the class who made essentially no effort to learn or pass.
Re Top: general stuff and then some basic algtop (no coho), taking two courses in smooth manifolds and Lie theeory right now
@EricStucky topology is fun, but once in a while you meet someone who is light years ahead of you, and you feel dumb
"once in a while" you mean every day XD
Oh cool, @EricS: Well, after you learn manifolds, next take differential geometry :)
my topology professor was two generations away from Bursuk!
05:50
@Forever: That applies in every possible field.
hehe that's neat :)
he told me it did not come naturally to me, and I almost cried
but I try anyway!
I definitely am not someone who tries to make everyone study math ... even less so for grad school.
But when I've had super-talented students who fall in love with it, I certainly am happy to encourage them.
I'm a bit worried about some of the high school kids I'm working with who're taking precalculus. Some are working hard and learning, but others are absolutely going to get their clocks cleaned when they go off to college. (And I think plenty aren't thinking of college.)
05:53
I don't know if I'm talented, or if I just really enjoy discovering things.
Ted, are you subbing nowadays?
No, @EricS. After some work on my part, I'm volunteering at a charter high school. And I spend 3 1/2 hours a different afternoon working with 4th - 8th graders at a public library.
That's pretty cool
@TedShifrin you can tell if some have a predilection for math or not, which is why my topology professor's comments were so depressing
I hope that someday I'll be more sympathetic to high schoolers, when there's a little more distance
05:55
So yesterday with one of the precalculus classes I explained e and exponential growth, showed them Newton's Law of Cooling, and then we spent 20 minutes using logs to figure out when someone got murdered :P
@EricS: I do best as a teacher when students really want to learn, even if they're struggling. I find it frustrating to see kids who are totally unmotivated and just don't care.
I should talk to him again though, he is a modern day giant in topology and is very fun to talk to
@ForeverMozart: I think we all think about whether or not we're any good. But I think it's best to just enjoy math while we get to do it and let the chips fall where we may. When I'm not busy being distressed anyway that's what I do.
That seems like a pretty common experience, Ted :)
05:57
Howdy, @MikeM. @Forever, my two advisers (one official, one less so) were both famous pillars of 20th century mathematics. They were generous, wonderful people, but I never in a million years thought I'd contribute epsilon of what they did in research.
@MikeMiller very good, that's what I try to do most of the time. I'm distracted by various problems.
Hi @Ted.
I always wanted to make a difference as a teacher, didn't think my research papers (despite a few in top journals) would matter much. I hope that my textbooks will have a bit of positive impact.
@Forever: It's useless for me to say that you shouldn't focus on things like that, because we all know it's not that easy. But I find that my life has generally gotten better as I have gotten better at ignoring that voice of doubt.
I'm not going to lie, getting into grad school helped a lot :P
yes that helps
06:03
But I think that even as a senior I was better than as a sophomore. For me, at least, it seems that I am most anxious about my abilities when I am doing the least actual work. The amount of progress that I make on the work has been more or less inconsequential
I've seen a number of students who've developed and improved markedly as time passes, and as stuff gets much harder. Others start to crumble. ... The laws of educational nature.
as a grad student you just want to impress the professors in your research area
haha I definitely am not in that camp.
Probably I'm trying to avoid being an idiot, but I definitely don't try to impress.
yeah but wait till you're i your 3rd or 4th year
hehe I suppose
06:07
I think different graduate programs breed different attitudes/cultures, too.
Sounds true :)
I only talk to a couple of professors
done with my coursework
working on a few different papers, thesis, ...
Yeah I definitely have felt generally comfortable with the faculty, except in one course. And I can imagine that if the environment was more like that, I'd feel very different about things.
but I'm a shut-in of sorts
Mathematics attracts all sorts of personalities.
The introverts who shut themselves in closets, extroverts who are extremely talkative, people who love working in groups, etc.
Good to see you again, @EricS. Talk soon!
Hope so :)
G'night
Night :)
well don't everyone leave me at once!
jeje
I don't go to sleep that easily :P
You wouldn't happen to play tabletop games, would you?
/ have done so in a past life?
06:18
@EricStucky like foosball ?
no like D&D
oh, haha, no
I play chess and bridge and beer pong
in that order
ooh we just got a weekly bridge game going :)
it's a fun game
06:20
especially if you have a mathematician on your team
or like a genius
I played with one of my professors once and it was like mind reading
XD
Actually, the folks who played it back in my undergrad were math folks too, so that's really been my entire experience with the game :P
he was "plugged in" to a higher power of reason
like you ask him a question and you can see the wheels turn
poker is easier
hehe I agree
but people read me too easily
so I lose at poker
06:25
I was 10 years old when Moneymaker won WSOP, so I kind of grew up in that internet craze
Was very disappointed when the DoJ came down on the big sites before I could play for money :/
You can still play on some sites eg carbon poker
But I prefer to play with people now and again
oh for sure :)
mein fuhrer, I can walk!! :( :) :( :)
@ForeverMozart
@BalarkaSen hi
06:34
hi.
I have a Hausdorff counterexampe
there is a space with all cut points, and a compactification of that space with non-connected remainder and no cut points
took a lot of work though
is the space complicated?
yes, hard to describe in words
I've been listening to hippie music, typing the proof all evening
@BalarkaSen
I guess you are on the other side of the world, which is why we are only here together at this time
06:40
music generally distracts me
@ForeverMozart where do you live?
Ontario now
canada
Yeah I'm not gojng to engage with these comments.
@MikeMiller :)
Seems like a bad question to me. OP just talks about a bunch of things that's hard and has $3$ in it and asks whether there is a reason for these.
06:53
It seems like the sort of question you would ask if you have more excitement about math than experience with it. While I agree that can be annoying, I always feel bad at my annoyance.
I guess yeah.
wow Duistermaat & Kolk has lots of theoretical multivariable analysis problems.
@Balarka: It's strictly about dimension 3, which can be made into a good question (I do not intend to do so). The four color theorem is a complete nonsequitur.
I wonder whether diophantine equations of degree $3$ has much to do with topoloy and geometry of dimension $3$. But how much do I know.
It's certainly geometry.
07:09
oh yeah
Cool proof of contraction mapping principle from D&K: $X$ be bounded, $f : X \to X$ a contraction mapping with Lipschitz constant $c \in (0, 1)$. Set $g : X \to \Bbb R$, $g(x) = \|x - f(x)\|$. Note that $\|g(x) - g(y)\| \leq \|x - y + f(y) - f(x)\| \leq (1 + c) \|x - y\|$, hence $g$ is Lipschitz continuous and thus continuous. If $X$ is bounded, $g$ admits a global minimum on $X$, call it $x_0$. $g(x_0) \leq g(f(x_0)) = \|f(x_0) -f(f(x_0))\| \leq cg(x_0)$.
But $g(x_0) \leq cg(x_0)$ implies $g(x_0) = 0$, as $c < 1$, which gives us the desired fixed point. If $X$ is not bounded, let $X_0 = \{x \in X : g(x) \leq g(x_0)\}$. Note for $x \in X_0$, $\|x - x_0\| \leq \|x - f(x)\| + \|f(x) - f(x_0)\| + \|f(x_0) - x_0\| \leq g(x) + g(x_0) + c\|x - x_0\| \leq 2g(x_0) + c\|x - x_0\|$. Hence, $\|x - x_0\| \leq 2g(x_0)/(1-c)$, hence $X_0$ is bounded anyway. It's easy to see $f$ restricts to a self-map of $X_0$, so proceed as before to find a fixed point of $f$.
Hmm, what I wonder is how does that tell me that the fixed point is unique.
@MikeMiller is it possible to be better at counterexamples than at proving theorems?
Continuous function need not take unique minimum on a compact set, certainly.
(typo: at the first sentence I meant "$X$ be closed", not "$X$ be bounded").
I had a geometry professor nicknamed "the king of counterexample"
I thought that was pretty cool
some of us are just contrarians I guess :)
Counterexamples are theorems.
07:16
ok but the feeling is different
maybe because we are used to proving: if $X$ has properties a, b, and c, then $X$ has property d.
Meh, I guess I can derive uniqueness anyway. If it has two fixed points $x, y$, $\|f(x) - f(y)\| = \|x - y\|$ and $\|f(x) - f(y)\| \leq c\|x - y\| < \|x - y\|$, impossible.
The proof doesn't give me a unique one though, unlike the other proof I know.
07:33
oh no
functional analysis
I am on $\Bbb R^n$, so not quite doing functional analysis :)
ok good
one of my high school friends died
 
1 hour later…
08:53
:(
09:21
Morning @DanielFischer.
GGG
GGG
$a^2 \equiv 1 \mod{15} \implies a^2-1 \equiv 0 \mod{15} \implies (a-1)(a+1) \equiv 0 \mod{15}.$ This implies $a-1 = 0\mod{15}$ or $a+1 = 0 \mod{15}$, so $a=1,14$; it also implies that $a-1 = 0\mod{5}$ or $a +1 = 0 \mod{5}$, which gives $a=1,4$; and finally, $a-1 = 0 \mod{3}$ or $a+1 = 0 \mod{3}$ which gives $a=1,2$. Therefore $a=1,2,4,14$. This is wrong, but where did I go wrong?
09:39
@BalarkaSen Morning. Or afternoon, probably.
It's afternoon, yep. Did you wake up early today, or have I confuzzled the European time zone?
@BalarkaSen It's a quarter to eleven here.
Ah, I see.
(GMT +1)
So we're on a four and a half hour's difference. :)
@DanielFischer On a different note, I learned about the following theorem today: If $f : U \subset \Bbb R^n \to \Bbb R^m$ is Lipschitz continuous, then $f$ is differentiable outside a set of measure zero.
I was wondering if you can give me a reference which contains a proof of this fact.
GGG
GGG
09:52
@BalarkaSen Out of interest what book is D&K?
Duistermaat & Kolk.
@BalarkaSen Don't know a reference off hand. It's Rademacher's theorem, that name might help you. Perhaps it's proved in some book about geometric measure theory.
Ah, thanks. Is the proof involved?
@BalarkaSen I'd think so.
@GGG I see an error: $(a-1)(a+1) \equiv 0 \mod{15}$ does not necessarily imply that $a-1\mod{15}$ or $a+1\mod{15}$ is zero. Trivial counter-example: $a=4$
10:07
Did you see this? @DanielFischer even the mean square has 8 :-)
@skullpetrol What can I say? I'm just not much into that kind of foul language ;)
GGG
GGG
@MickLH Thanks for pointing that out. What's the proper way to do the problem, if you don't mind?
$$y^2 \equiv\, x\mod\,n$$
$$y^2 = x+\Bbb{Z}\,n$$
$$y = \sqrt{x+\Bbb{Z}\,n}$$
I don't know if this fits your criteria for "proper"
11:02
@skullpetrol i m surprised that the guy who is most tendentious to use "ignore" option against whom he calls "trolls" is even the most user of "f" word
I don't even remember anyone from here who calls people troll and then ignores them.
Sanity-check: If $f_n : U \subset \Bbb R^n \to \Bbb R^n$ is a sequence of Lipschitz continuous maps with same (least) Lipschitz constant $c$, $f_n$ converging to $f$ uniformly, then $f$ is also Lipschitz, right?
Because for any $x,y \in U$, $\|f(x) - f(y)\| \leq \|f(x)- f_n(x)\| + \|f_n(x) - f_n(y)\|+\|f_n(y) - f(y)\|$ and I can pick $n$ to be very large so that this thing is $\leq 2\epsilon + c\|x - y\|$ for any $\epsilon$ I choose. But then if I choose $\epsilon$ so that $\epsilon \leq (c' - c)/2\|x - y\|$ for some fixed $c < c' < 1$, my job is done, correct?
I am unsure because of the inelegant and ad-hoc choice of $\epsilon$ I have done there.
Sorry, I meant $c < c'$, not $c < c' < 1$. Typo. Was thinking of contractions.
the argument is correct
Thanks, @s.harp.
Actually, my Lipschitz constants needn't be the same for each $f_n$. I think all I need is that $\sup(c_n)$ exists, where $c_n$ is the Lipschitz constant of $f_n$.
Then I can do the same argument to conclude the uniform limit is Lipschitz.
11:18
Yes
Uh nevermind
Who is that? @Agawa001
The "f" word is used a lot in the English Language & Usage chatroom :-)
Are you fucking sure about that
Yup, I hang out there a lot.
Hey @DanielFischer
Could you take a look at my question: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1662005/can-we-just-set-it ?
@skullpetrol i m not trolly enough to cite names
f word is a part of english language ?
the "formal" english i mean
12:07
@DanielFischer We have $b^{3}=-b^2+b-1$. How can we calculate $b^{13}$ ?

I thought the following:
$b^{13}=b^3 b^3 b^3 b^3 b=(-b^2+b-1)^4 a=(a^4-2a^3+3a^2-2a+1)(a^4-2a^3+3a^2-2a+1) a$

But I think that this doesn't help.
What is $a$?
@s.harp @DanielFischer Oh sorry, I meant $b^{13}=b^3 b^3 b^3 b^3 b=(-b^2+b-1)^4 b=(b^4-2b^3+3b^2-2b+1)(b^4-2b^3+3b^2-2b+1) b$
Note $b(x b^2 + y b +z)=(y-x)b^2+(z+x)b-x$
so do that 13 times if you want :)
Shouldn't really be hard.
Just find out what you'd get after $n$ times by induction, and plug in $n = 13$.
@s.harp At which point do we use this?
12:17
@s.harp Also, you mean 10 times, not 13.
Well you start with $0b^2+0b+1$, then you multiply by $b$ and get an expression of the form $x b^2+ y b +z$, then every multiplying by $b$ gives you another quadratic expression upon use of the formula
@BalarkaSen Yes, but what could we pick as induction hypothesis?
@s.harp Alternatively, you start with $b^3 = -b^2 + b - 1$ and then keep multiplying $b$ until it becomes $b^{13}$.
This is what I meant when I wrote 10 times, so I thought I should clarify.
@BalarkaSen Ok, I will try it in a bit :)
OK, I'm off to work.
12:22
It appears that whenever $n$ is even the $b^1$ component of $b^n (x b^2 + y b +1)$ is $y$ again
Whenever $n$ is odd the $b^1$ component is $x+z$
also the $b^2$ component contains a term $(-1)^n \lfloor (n+2)/2 \rfloor x$ together with $y$ and $z$ components that are still to be determined
You a physicist, @s.harp?
physics student, big difference :)
Close enough. Score!
You also?
Nope, I don't know any physics. I just threw a good guess by seeing that you enthusiastically computed the coefficients of $b^{13}$ :P
12:29
:)
What kind of physics do you study?
I don't know honestly, I guess my interests lie in statistical physics and quantum field theory
Ah, that's cool stuff.
specifically when anything is given a mathematical treatment I am happy, doesn't matter if it makes the subject more complicated or less complicated
I see. That's surprising for a physics student! (or maybe not, not that I know many physicists/physics students)
12:35
besides I believe that $b^n(x b^2 +y b^1 + z) = (-1)^n(\lfloor (n+2)/2 \rfloor x - -\lfloor (n+1)/2\rfloor y + \lfloor n/2 \rfloor z)b^2 + 1/2( (1+(-1)^n) y + (1-(-1)^n)(x-z))b^1$ + (b^2 term evaluated at n-1) $b^0$
I believe you!
I think I messed up the formatting pretty bad
02:00 - 13:0015:00 - 00:00

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