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12:13 AM
Hi guys
 
12:38 AM
I really don't understand some people handing their assignments without stappling them
whyy
 
@Adeek topology!
 
@0celo7 I love topology
topology and algebra are my heart
I am so mad
 
I need a pathological space
 
some person handed in their assignment without stappling them and hand writting is so bad!
with what property @0celo7
 
I need a space that has a family of nested connected closed subsets whose intersection is not connected
I know that $X$ should fail (i) compactness or (ii) Hausdorff property or both
So, $X$ is the space, $\mathcal A$ a set of subsets which is simply ordered by inclusion
Each $A\in\mathcal A$ is closed and connected
And $\bigcap_{A\in\mathcal A}A$ should be disconnected
 
12:51 AM
hm
hm what about
cantor set ?
 
eww
does cantor set even have connected subsets that aren't singletons?
 
hmm
 
that might be too pathological :P
 
Closed? In what?
 
@TedShifrin Closed in $X$.
 
12:54 AM
closed sequence of sets in the topology
oh no wait
cantor set is totally disconnected
it is closed though
 
Let $X =\Bbb R^2-\{0\}$.
 
Yes I got it
pick the closed sets of the cantor sets
I think those have the properties that you need.
 
huh?
 
I mean $C_n$ in the cantor set
so one starts with $C_1 = [0,1]$
 
those aren't connected.
 
12:56 AM
yeah
nvm
 
you can fix it. But I have something easier.
 
Hey, what freeware do you guys know of that can be used for mathematical programming?
 
@dsillman2000 Linux
 
Lol xD I mean like a free alternative to Mathematica/MATLAB
 
Sage
 
1:00 AM
Yeah, see, I was trying to install that but I got all tangled up in the virtual box setup. It kept telling me that the compressed image was corrupted and I couldn't import the .ova file
I gave up after around 40 minutes of not finding the answer online
 
I have no idea.
 
@TedShifrin What are you thinking for $\mathcal A$?
 
Connected sets that squeeze down to the x-axis.
 
Hmm, but how to make them closed...
 
They're in $X$.
 
1:03 AM
But e.g. the punctured unit disk is not closed in $X$.
 
hm
 
Sure it is.
Closed disk.
 
@TedShifrin Right
 
nice
 
So I'm thinking diamonds around $0$
They squish down to $[-1,1]-\{0\}$
 
1:06 AM
Take a closed ball of radius $1/n$ union a cone of angle $1/n$ centered on the x-axis.
OK, that works too.
 
Thanks
 
that is cool
 
Yup.
 
is that a question in your GT class ?
@0celo7
 
@Adeek See problem 26.11 in Munkres
I was wondering if it can fail
@TedShifrin Or even easier...a punctured unit square
that shrinks along the $y$ axis
 
1:11 AM
yeah
 
good space though!
I was dreading having to enter the non-Hausdorff realm.
 
@0celo7 would you like to see my blog
I solved actually big part of munkres last summer but didn't had a chance to post my solutions in my blog
but I did post some solutions for some problems
 
@Adeek I like doing them on my own :)
 
Just in case anyone is wondering; I found something online by Sage called SageCloud; it's online cloud-saving Sage programming! Try it out if you're interested - it works for me.
 
I had a wordpress
damn thing was too hard to put TeX into
and I can't use my fancy packages/macros
 
1:18 AM
it is not that hard
wordpress comes directly with tex actually.
 
you have to do like [latex] [/latex] or something
 
yeah
 
yeah, that's too hard
 
I used to code before so I am used to those things
 
someone on physics is making a modular blog on github
I will emulate his setup
 
1:18 AM
modular forms ?
 
no
like
you can import latex packages and whatnot
he's programming it from scratch
 
oh cool
 
I think
 
really cool
 
ok, I have a lab report to write
but I also want to read Hatcher
 
1:20 AM
I want to read many things
but grad school is so busy
and diff geo is taking a lot of my time
 
what are you doing
in diff geo
 
vector fields
I don't understand things though
 
like what
 
Prof just writes stuff and mumbles things, so i don't follow him in lecture.
we just did complex line bundle.
and we are gonna start submanifolds soon
 
@Adeek what about them?
@Adeek what are you confused about?
 
1:34 AM
I haven't studied this part of his notes yet so I don't know yet what I am confused about
I will talk to you when I study them
I don't follow him in lecture because the prof just mumbles things
without explanation or motivation or anything
 
ok
make sure you understand how to extend vector fields off of closed sets
it's very important
 
okay
 
@Adeek did you cover partitions of unity?
 
yeah but we didn't prove it
we just had it as given
I feel very mechanical like I just see theorems and theorems and definitions
no proofs of how things work
 
the partition of unity proof is not that interesting
it's basically piecing together bump functions using paracompactness
 
1:42 AM
I see
 
@Adeek well to be fair
basic differential geometry goes a lot smoother if you've seen "advanced analysis"
because a lot of the proofs similar
or you use constructions familiar from there
 
yeah I didn't take advanced analysis
 
What is infinity - 1?
 
- infinity @Ramanujan
 
my other university had a small department @0celo7
 
1:44 AM
.why?
 
@Ramanujan Fermat's theorem IIRC
@Adeek yeah but you are taking functional analysis
 
yeah @0celo7
prof doesn't assume too much knowledge
 
sometimes I think my analysis prof assumes functional analysis knowledge
 
you don't need too much analysis knowledge for functional analysis
only measure theory
and convergence of sequences
and other small things here and there but not too many things
 
measure theory is pretty heavy duty...
 
1:47 AM
nah it is not that bad
I am studying it by myself together with functional analysis
I am using this as reference
I am really happy with my functional analysis prof
he is very good
 
Our functional analysis prof switches between an operator theorist and an analyst
The operator theorist assumes the graduate algebra sequence
I have time for either FA or grad algebra, probably
 
no here we have two functional analysis class as grad analysis class
 
So depending on which prof is teaching I'll be taking FA or algebra
 
first one is introduction
and second one is heavy duty stuff
I am doing the introduction one
like banach spaces, complete spaces
so maybe this class shouldn't be functional analysis
 
@Adeek that's what my analysis class is
 
1:51 AM
but maybe like advanced analysis
 
not functional
 
yeah
 
no our functional analysis is heavy duty
 
they call it here functional analysis I though
 
I see
ok I have written 3 words (needs to be 1500) of this lab report so unless you have questions :)
 
1:53 AM
nah I will go study as well
good luck
 
@0celo7 I can't find IIRC
 
 
7 hours later…
9:00 AM
hello everyone
why is the chat so quiet
Challenge: estimate n such that 1/1 + 1/2 + 1/3 + ... + 1/n = a
for a>=1
 
 
2 hours later…
11:13 AM
Hi...
I need to speak with an American PHD student.
Math student actually
 
Hey everyone, just a quick question. I'm reading through Rudin and I noticed that when Rudin discusses continuity of some function $f : X \to Y$, he notes that $X$ needs to be a compact metric space for $f$ to be continuous, but he doesn't mention the compactness of $Y$. Surely if $Y$ is non-compact then $f^{-1}$ doesn't exist?
As there would be elements of $Y$ that we couldn't map to $X$
 
@DHMO n∈z
@DHMO n is any inteeger
 
11:30 AM
@Ramanujan I mean, given a value of a, estimate n
 
@DHMO is a greater than or equal to 1?
 
@Ramanujan I already said a>=1
 
Only first 2 numbers would make that equation more than 1 so n can be any number I guess
 
what?
say, a=100
what is n?
 
11:33 AM
Now it looks complicated to me
 
when n=100, a=5.187377517639621
 
Ah, a can't be = 100 because it is convergent series
 
no
it is divergent
In mathematics, the harmonic series is the divergent infinite series: ∑ n = 1 ∞ 1 n = 1 + 1 2 + 1 3 + ...
 
@BalarkaSen hey, no fun if you just post the answer here
@SteamyRoot even less fun
 
11:35 AM
How it is divergent?
 
There.
 
@Ramanujan see the section "Divergence"
 
the harmonic sequence converges to $0$, but the series converges to infinity
 
if a=100 then n = 1/97.5…something
 
@Ramanujan nope
 
11:36 AM
some help on information theory?
 
@Rrjrjtlokrthjji see chat description: "Just ask; don't ask to ask"
 
@DHMO you did not mentioned n to be natural numbers, so why can't it be fractions?
 
@Ramanujan how do you add 1/1 + 1/2 + ... + 1/(1/97.5) ?
it is implied that n is a positive integer
or else the ellipsis would have no meaning
 
1/1/98.75… will become 98.5…
 
how do you add 1/1 + 1/2 + ... + 98.5?
what is the pattern?
don't find loopholes
you know what the question means
 
11:38 AM
I've been self-studying Information Theory, mainly from Ash and Shannon-Weaver, Roman. Why we assume for the development of the theory that the probability of error for a single random variable trasmitted is $p < 1/2$?
 
that isn't the mathematician way
 
finding $n$ such that $H_n = a$ is going to be a pain :P
 
1/ 1 + 1/2 + 1/3 +…………97.5… =100(approx)
 
if you can't use the formulas we posted earlier
 
A reason I think may be is that the entropy $H(X)$ for the random variables $X_1,X_2, ..,X_n$ has a bound $H(X) \leq logn$, where equality holds for $p_i = 1/n, ~ \forall i=1,2,..,n$ e.g when tossing a fair coin. If the trial of error is $p=1/2$ we get maximum entropy, so there's no reason to work for $p> 1/2$
 
11:39 AM
@SteamyRoot I just want you guys to think instead of just copying the formula
@Ramanujan what is the ellipsis?
 
$H_{100} = 5.1873775...$
woops
 
I don't know @DHMO
 
@DHMO What makes you think we haven't thought about this?
 
@Ramanujan rather than finding loopholes in the question, why not follow the spirit?
@BalarkaSen not you
if you just post the answer
what good is it to those who are trying?
 
@DHMO I can't find any other way
 
11:41 AM
Does trying this question learn you anything interesting, though?
 
@SteamyRoot well, that depends on a lot of factors
 
@SteamyRoot I came to know what loopholes means;)
 
@SteamyRoot The question, note, is estimating $n$, not finding $n$. Indeed, there is no such $n$ if $a$ is an integer larger than $1$.
Which is a better exercise (in my opinion) to try out.
 
I know there is (probably) no exact $n$
 
@BalarkaSen it can be
 
11:42 AM
but you can give the exact $n$ when the series jumps from below $100$ to above $100$
 
I don't know what that means. I was just claiming $H_n$ is not an integer for any any $n> 1$.
 
@DHMO I can't find any other way
 
no one knows?
I gotta ask a prof I guess
 
@Rrjrjtlokrthjji you could try asking in, you know, mathoverflow.
 
whatever
 
11:49 AM
@DHMO any other math challenge that I can solve?
 
@Ramanujan dont have any
> A topologist is drinking tea from a cup when suddenly the handle drops off. The topologist is amazed: the new shape is different but he can still drink tea from it. And so he does until the bottom of the cup drops off. Now he is totally befuddled: the shape is equivalent to the original one but how can he drink his tea now?
 
I dont understand this: why is it equivalent for the last case?
 
Both are torus.
 
oh, original one
well, source:
 
11:55 AM
Let $f(x) = \sum_{i=0}^n a_ix^i$ be a polynomial with nonnegative integer coeffiecients $a_i$, i.e. $f \in \mathbb{N}_0[x]$. How many times must you evaluate $f$ in some $x$ to find all coefficients?
 
125
Q: Do good math jokes exist?

RandomblueHave a good joke? Share. I know this is subjective, but the principle "should be of interest to mathematicians" trumps. (I hope.)

 
That one's a good challenge, I think. Note: you do not know the value of $n$.
 
@SteamyRoot n+1?
 
Well, that would be sufficient if you knew what $n$ was.
But since you don't know what $n$ is, you never know when you've done $n+1$ evaluations...
 
i think i can know
try me
what is f(0)? @SteamyRoot
 
12:00 PM
$0$
 
f(1)?
 
$0$ again
 
f(2)?
 
$0$
 
f(3)
wait that is impossible
 
12:01 PM
why?
 
if f(1)=0, then all coefficients are 0
 
Oh, right
 
f(0)?
 
Maybe I'll actually have to think of a polynomial, sec :P
$f(0) = 1$
 
f(1)?
 
12:03 PM
$21$
 
f(2)?
 
2097151
 
continue
 
5230176601
1466015503701
 
big nums are hard to handle
 
12:04 PM
119209289550781
 
hey
 
they are.
 
if you just continue how do you know i know when to stop
 
well, you can't know when you should stop either because you don't know $n$ :P
Unless you thought of something very clever that I don't know of
 
I said I can know
do it one by one
let me process these numbers first
 
12:06 PM
ooh i know this game
 
Heh... I should've taken a polynomial with coefficients of the order of Graham's number :P
 
@SteamyRoot in that case i would just tell you my algorithm
 
Which is?
 
tell me, is your n bigger than 10
if it is, then i just tell you the algorithm
 
yes
 
12:08 PM
can't process 11 bignums
alright
you know repeated difference?
it would be more fun if you give me a smaller polynomial
 
I might've known that back when I did not-so-pure mathematics
 
Hi @mercio
 
hi
 
@SteamyRoot give me a smaller polynomial
 
i wanna guess the polynomial too
 
12:09 PM
Well, here's the thing: the most efficient way is independent of the degree of the polynomial
 
@SteamyRoot let us hear your algorithm
 
You first evaluate $f(1)$, which gives you $\sum_{i=0}^n a_i$
 
yes
 
Then take the smallest $m$ such that $10^m > f(1)$ and evaluate $f(10^m)$
 
f(100) is a pretty bignum
why 10?
 
12:12 PM
because you don't want to do base changes with huge numbers
 
well thats nice
thats quite clever
 
because it's base $10$ indeed, though of course it works in any base you want I suppose
 
you picked 1+x+x²+...+x^20
?
 
that was the first polynomial, yes :P
 
1:18 PM
What is meant by an infinite discontinuity at a point?
 
literally the first result
 
Okay thanks @DHMO
 
never heard of this term before
 
1:38 PM
Why voted down :(

http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1963737/the-context-free-grammar-for-language-l-anbmck-mid-k-n-m-n%E2%89%A50-m%E2%89%A50
 
morning
 
Good morning.
 
1:52 PM
I never got sent those exercises. Oops.
 
I forgot about those.
It's fine though.
Can I compute the SW classes of $\Bbb{CP}^n$ yet?
I guess it boils down to computing SW classes of the tautological bundle on $\Bbb {CP}^1$.
 
Why does it boil down to that?
 
Not tautological bundle, sorry. The dual of that ($O(1)$). Because $T\Bbb{CP}^n$ is stably direct sum of a bunch of those over $\Bbb{CP}^n$, and if I know it for $n = 1$ I can pullback.
 
OK :) So what are they for that?
 
user228700
Hi everyone :-) I have a quick question. My textbook has given that three lines $a_1x+b_1y+c_1$, $a_2x+b_2y+c_2$, and $a_3x+b_3y+c_3$ are concurrent, iff, for three constants $A, B$ and $C$, not all three zero $A(a_1x+b_1y+c_1)+B(a_2x+b_2y+c_2)+C(a_3x+b_3y+c_3)=0$. I was wondering why they have explicitly mentioned that all 3 constants can't be zero..?
 
2:05 PM
@Kaumudi because... if all three are zero... then that is always true
namely 0(a1x+b1y+c1) + 0(a2x+b2y+c2) + 0(a3x+b3y+c3) = 0
 
user228700
@DHMO Yeah, that's obvious. But, uh, hang on...
 
then every three line is concurrent
 
I am trying to figure out why $w_2$ should or should not be nonzero.
 
what is omega_2 ?
 
That message was not directed to you.
 
2:07 PM
ok sorry
 
user228700
@DHMO Yeah, no, I get that. Hang on, I thought I had thought this question through! I mean, of course all 3 can't be zero at the same time but...damn! I completely forgot what my original question was! Ugh. OK, I'll ask again if it comes back. Sorry :/ >.<
 
@Kaumudi you mean why it works?
 
user228700
@DHMO No, no. That also I understand. There was something else...gah!
 
user228700
Sigh. Never mind then. I'll ask again if it comes back. Thanks :-)
 
you're welcome
 
user228700
2:09 PM
@DHMO :-)
 
2:23 PM
@BalarkaSen You've already told me the answer to this one before.
 
@MikeMiller I think I did it for tangent bundles. But if $w_2(O(1))$ was $0$, then $w(T\Bbb{CP}^2) = w(O(1) \oplus O(1) \oplus O(1)) = 1 \cdot 1 \cdot 1$ would have been $1$, clearly false as the top SW class of CP^2 is $\chi(\Bbb{CP}^2)$ mod 2 = $1$, right?
 
The top SW class of any vector bundle over a smooth manifold is equal to its mod 2 Euler class.
 
Ah, right, forgot.
 
Hello!!! Is anyone of you familiar with Algorithmic randomness?
 
@Evinda which algorithm?
 
2:37 PM
@DHMO Not a specific one
 
@Evinda what is your question?
> Just ask; don't ask to ask.
(Room description)
 
So $w(T\Bbb{CP}^n) = (1 + \alpha)^{n+1}$ where $\alpha$ generates $H^2(\Bbb{CP}^2)$. Doesn't that have the same S-W numbers as $\Bbb{RP}^n \times \Bbb{RP}^n$ (in which case the polynomial is $(1 + 2\alpha + \alpha^2)^{n+1} = (1 + \alpha^2)^{n+1}$ - $\alpha$ generator of $H^1(\Bbb{RP}^1)$)?
 
I wanted to know what knowledge is required for this topic. @DHMO
 
@Evinda No idea. I thought it would be a specific question
 
A ok. No problem. @DHMO
 
2:39 PM
Err, no? $\Bbb{RP}^2 \times \Bbb{RP}^2$ is probably not orientable. :P
 
Eh, isn't it?
 
Uh.
No.
 
oops, of course you're right.
 
For thirty different reasons. The product of manifolds is orientable iff both factors are orientable. The Steifel-Whitney class of a product of manifolds is the sum of the pullbacks of the SW classes of each factor. For $w_1$, this says it's the sum of the $w_1$s from before, which belong to different factors of the direct sum decomposition of $H_1$. Etc.
 
I'm bad at the manipulation. Right, I was miscomputing.
 
2:47 PM
git gud
 
I guess $w_k(X \times Y)$ is sum of cross product terms $w_i(X) \times w_j(Y)$, $i + j = k$.
 
Of course, for no interesting reason.
 
Nah, just the usual $T(X \times Y) = TX \oplus TY$ thing.
Maybe I should try to compute $w(\Bbb{CP}^2 \# \Bbb{CP}^2)$ next.
 
You'll get better computational tools later.
 
That's good to hear. I have trouble writing down the SW numbers even after I figure out the SW classes.
 
2:58 PM
That's not going to get any easier... all you're doing is writing down products of elements in a ring.
The classes are the hard part.
 

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