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12:20 AM
Does anyone have a good reference for a proof on how to define functions recursively
 
 
1 hour later…
1:33 AM
Hi skull, @Pedro, @nabla
 
Mystical greetings, @TedShifrin
(I'm changing up my hello)
 
Hi @TedShifrin @MikeMiller
Variety is the spice of life, is it?
 
aye
actually, not quite
a good cup of coffee is the spice of life
 
What's up homies.
 
Hi @AlexanderGruber
 
1:38 AM
hello
 
@nabla. How's it going?
@MikeMiller are you teaching calc this semester?
 
yup
 
how are you liking it?
 
How are your students so far
 
I'm not and they're not, we start on oct 2
 
1:39 AM
Oh
 
but I expect I'll like it quite a lot
I enjoy teaching
 
What if they ask you if -12 was an irrational number
 
As in, the entire class is confused about that for some reason? Then I'll be sad
 
Yes
lol
My friend's calculus class is like that..
She is very depressed about it
 
@MikeMiller teaching is a lot of fun
@MikeMiller I'd be shocked if they knew or cared. (assuming they aren't math majors)
 
1:45 AM
it's the cared part I'd be surprised about
 
You'll have to let me know how it goes... freshmen at UCLA might be a lot smarter than at UF
 
ehhh
 
lol
 
freshmen math majors, maybe
but I think the freshman intelligence is pretty universally constant
 
most of mine think that rational numbers are "all real numbers" or something like that
I got about 2 correct definitions on my last quiz out of a class of 95
it's a good sign, though. More material to learn 'em => more amazement at the end of the semester
 
1:49 AM
They think $\mathbb{Q} = \mathbb{R}$
 
@nablablah i mean, most of them are bio or psych majors
 
I think I thought that too when I took calculus
 
I don't know wtf a ribosome is, I can't really expect them to be like "$\mathbb{Q}$ must be proper because it is countable!"
 
Hi @Alex ... Hope your back is better ...
 
I didn't get a chance to take pre-calc because I accidentally tested out of it
 
1:51 AM
@TedShifrin there is actually progress
neurologist put me on some kind of pill that is fixing the headaches
 
Great!
 
i am pretty excited about it- that was the main problem.
@nablablah Yeah I never took past algebra 2 in HS
and went into calc when I was 24
 
Does he have therapy in kind to fix things gradually?
 
there wasn't really any testing out or whatever involved, i just belligerantly refused to leave the class and eventually they gave up.
 
Mind, not kind
 
1:53 AM
lol wow
 
@TedShifrin I'm going to be starting water therapy soon
which I don't know too much about
 
I'm not sure if it was a good idea for me to skip it because I feel like my foundations in proofs are a bit rocky and for some reason I feel like they taught everyone how to write proofs during pre-calc and I missed it all
 
Cool ... I hope things improve for you! Imagine you belligerent :)
 
@nablablah i'm pretty sure they didn't teach them any proofs during pre-calc. :p
@TedShifrin it's more common than you might think. :p
 
No, @nabla, no proofs of any sort in precalc!
 
1:55 AM
thanks though, always appreciate the support from here. not many people at my uni know about my injury (due to pride and paranoia) so I don't hear much about it.
 
Sometimes bottling things up hurts more than helps, @Alex ...
 
@TedShifrin letting people in charge of me know about vulnerabilities just hasn't worked out for me in the past. force of habit.
 
I understand ...
 
anyway, did you hear that this winter is supposed to be crazy?
i guess we're going to get snow down here in the south
 
Oh great ... A canceled week ... Wonderful.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:11 AM
Haha, down here in Australia our spring/summer is coming! I can't wait. Today was amazing. Nothing but sun ^_^. The last few weeks have been crazy rain :(.
 
r9m
4:58 AM
 
sigh. There are cleaner ways to kill people.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:05 AM
fuuuuuu I let a mosquito in
 
6:25 AM
@anon Are you there?
 
yeah
 
What's an example of two metric spaces that are homeomorphic but not Lipschitz equivalent?
 
doesn't remember what Lipshitz means, has to google it
 
Sorry :(
 
how about the complex plane with its normal metric versus the one induced from stereographic projection from the Riemann sphere
 
6:29 AM
Oh god
 
what?
 
When I think of metric spaces all I can think of are R with the discrete metric and R with the euclidean metric, lol.
What's the one induced from the sphere?
 
basically, given two points on the plane, unproject them back to get two points on the sphere, then take their distance from each other on the sphere
similar idea: the upper half plane with its usual metric, versus the hyperbolic metric
 
What's the measure of distance on sphere though?
 
make a circular arc between two points and take its length
 
6:35 AM
Yeah I just realized.
Herp.
Thanks.
 
mmhmm
 
Are you a student?
 
Hey
 
I am a student and a teacher
 
everyone
 
6:39 AM
hello
 
Yo.
@AlexYoucis You're at Berkeley, yah?
 
@Anthony That's right.
 
How scared should I be of Rieffel's 202a?
 
I have a pretty heavy courseload, but I don't want to drop it...
 
6:41 AM
Prob(I know what 202a is)=0
 
Oh really?
 
True fact
 
Grads don't even know which grad courses are which?
D:
 
I highlighted it, right-clicked, googled, clicked a result and found what it is in <5 seconds.
 
@Anthony Grads don't know what undergrad courses masquerading as grad courses are.
:)
 
6:42 AM
!
I like that answer.
@anon What'chu mean?
 
intro top/anal is a grad course at berkely?
 
For some reason, yeah.
 
@anon It's generally stuff not covered in every undergrad course. Mostly undergrads take it though.
 
I see
 
I think only one person in my year took it
and I think he knew most of the stuff
@Anthony I don't really know Rieffel either
@Anthony What year are you?
 
6:45 AM
I'mma junior.
 
@Anthony Are you doing DRP?
 
DRP?
DIRECTED READING PROGRAM
No.
 
Bums
(=bummer)
 
Why?
 
I was just curious.
 
6:46 AM
Oh.
I considered it.
But I had too much stuff already.
 
Should do it next term :)
 
Roger.
Anyway, I'm gonna go to bed.
 
@Anthony See ya.
 
Hasta.
 
7:01 AM
@anon How are things going with you?
 
pretty good
fun fun fun
 
@anon That's always good to hear. :)
@anon Learning anything fun right now?
 
mmm, thinking about the trace formula for schur functors (I can now prove it myself), how species relate to combinatorial proofs, and the problem of tiling a 70x70 square with 1x1, 2x2, .... 24x24 squares (which has been solved by computer but not by hand: not possible).
( recall that 1+2^2+...+24^2=70^2 is the only solution to 1+...+m^2=n^2)
 
@anon I have no idea what half of those things mean, kind of. I know schur functors are related to schur polynomials in alg comb. I know species are the thing that Bruno's dad used to be in to, and I don't know what the sig. of the tiling is.
Sounds fun though!
 
sig?
 
7:05 AM
significance
 
there isn't really any I don't think, it's just an exotic and unique finite problem that emerges from an exotic and unique fact
 
Fair enough haha
 
(the 1+...+24^2=70^2 thing is related to lattices and number theory and string theory and some other stuff)
 
@anon Like leech lattice words?
 
mmhmm
 
7:07 AM
Well, that's interesting. Borcherds would probably be all over that
 
he is
as I recall
 
I know he used to be
He probably still is
 
did you see the arxiv joke I pinned for an entire month?
 
Nope
 
I lol'd when this first came out on arxiv: arxiv.org/abs/1408.2083
 
7:09 AM
Oh yeah, I saw this
Numerology at its finest :)
 
7:27 AM
Greetings
 
 
1 hour later…
8:36 AM
Greetings
 
8:54 AM
any bpdy ?
*body
 
9:19 AM
@Manish Yes.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:37 AM
@anon you're suspected in the charge of killing @blue
 
@blue you're suspected in the charge of killing @anon
 
Let's consider $\displaystyle f(x)=\frac{1}{1+x^2}$. Compute $$\sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \left(\frac{f^{(4n)}(1)}{(4n)!}+\frac{f^{(2n)}(1)}{(2n)!}\right)$$ This is a question by Furdui.
 
@IceBoy that's a priceless comment!
 
:D
@BalarkaSen I could have commented "and vice versa" but I don't think it would have sounded as good.
 
haha, yeah, it wouldn't.
 
11:49 AM
Plus he wouldn't get the pings };-)
 
12:13 PM
I think you'd also like to know both you, @PedroTamaroff, and those that starred your message that before going to the place you called "proper analysis" you might like to know to compute some elementary series like the one above or more elementary ones.
 
What is $0\times 0$? Is it undefined?
 
@Sush Nope, it's not.
@Chris'ssis Computing series have nothing to do with analysis.
 
@BalarkaSen, you mean $0\times 0=0$?
 
Yes.
 
@BalarkaSen Mathematical analysis is a branch of mathematics that includes the theories of differentiation, integration, measure, limits, infinite series, and analytic functions.
Mathematical analysis is a branch of mathematics that includes the theories of differentiation, integration, measure, limits, infinite series, and analytic functions. These theories are usually studied in the context of real and complex numbers and functions. Analysis evolved from calculus, which involves the elementary concepts and techniques of analysis. Analysis may be distinguished from geometry; however, it can be applied to any space of mathematical objects that has a definition of nearness (a topological space) or specific distances between objects (a metric space). == History == ...
 
12:18 PM
@Chris'ssis Don't trust wiki.
 
@BalarkaSen I don't trust you.
 
Try peeking at Rudin before commenting on what analysis is.
 
Analysis is beautiful.
Incredibly hard, but beautiful.
 
@GustavoMontano Hard though.
Haha, jinx.
 
It's where abstraction meets imagination.
Wait, did I describe it right.
Some abstractions are so incredibly hard to "imagine", that's why its so difficult.
 
12:20 PM
Well, @Chris'ssis, you don't have to, but it's better to look at well-recognized textbooks before copying what wiki says. Have you ever tried Rudin?
 
Rudin, Rudin, not flim-flam sites.
 
@BalarkaSen You say a lot of stuff out there (it easy to say anything you want to).
 
I think Analysis as a word touches on many branches of mathematics.
"Hard Bloody Analysis" = Rudin.
 
It's soft analysis.
 
12:21 PM
Really
 
@Chris'ssis Well, if it's quotes we are doing, let's quote mathematicians : terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/05/23/…
 
Terry Tao is Australian :).
 
@BalarkaSen, then when we solve quadratic $x^2-3x+2=0$, we get $(x-1)(x-2)=0$, that is $x-1=0 or x-2=0$ but if $0\times 0=0$, then $x=1=2$, right?
 
@Sush Nah.
$0 \times x$ for any $x \in \Bbb R$ is $0$.
 
Anything times $0$ is $0$ Sush.
 
12:23 PM
Since $1 \neq 2$, either $(x - 1)$ or $(x - 2)$ is $0$.
 
@BalarkaSen You should read first what you give me to read. Did you even read that?
 
Hmmm, that's a good question.
 
@BalarkaSen, OK! So, it is other way around!!
 
@Chris'ssis Yes, I did.
 
Well, yes it's OR, because $x$ can only take one value at a time.
 
12:24 PM
@BalarkaSen, many many thanks, Sir!
 
$x$ can not be $1$ and $2$ at the same time.
Mutually exclusive.
I realised today why we can use minutes and seconds when talking about angles.
It just HIT me. I never thought about it.
 
Latitude-Longitude.
 
@BalarkaSen And reading that you have concluded that the series and integrals are not part of analysis?
 
A minute is an angle. A second is an angle.
 
@Chris'ssis Reading that I have concluded that series and integrals are not part of soft analysis
 
12:26 PM
@GustavoMontano, I am economics student. Glad to meet a finance student.
 
Yes! I do Finance, Pure Mathematics and Computer Science :).
Economics is a great subject.
 
:D
 
@BalarkaSen “Hard analysis” is mostly concerned with finite quantities (e.g. the cardinality of finite sets, the measure of bounded sets, the value of convergent integrals, the norm of finite-dimensional vectors, etc.) and their quantitative properties (in particular, upper and lower bounds).
 
That's hard analysis, yes
 
mostly
 
12:27 PM
Not soft analysis
1 min ago, by Balarka Sen
@Chris'ssis Reading that I have concluded that series and integrals are not part of soft analysis
 
No matter the case, soft analysis and hard analysis are subsets of analysis.
 
@GustavoMontano I am sure Pedro meant soft analysis while talking of "proper analysis"
 
Oh, is that what this is about.
Well you can ask him when he comes on xD.
 
Analysis is the official name for soft analysis, actually
 
What's your favourite branch of mathematics @BalarkaSen?
 
12:31 PM
Number theory.
So, naturally, I am more attached to hard analysis than soft.
 
both qualitative and quantitative understanding is needed in all areas of Science
 
@IceBoy that's just irrelevant
 
is it?
 
yes. we were talking of terminologies. =)
 
Of course computing integrals and series are a part of analysis. You don't maybe need to know how to compute stuff very fast, but it is extremely profitable to know how to compute things. Many things in analysis, inequalities to be proven rely on "tricks". A good way to get a good feeling of convergence for series is to actually try to compute them , or bound them by something
 
12:34 PM
@user101036 Convergence is definitely part of analysis
 
how do you assign numbers to something you can't describe qualitatively?
 
Extreme computations of extremely crazy integrals are just out of the blue sometimes
 
@IceBoy. Yes you are right.
 
@BalarkaSen I understood your point. What do you recommend me here? Maybe a simple hint (a tiny one) ...
 
I don't see any point in spending too much time on crazy integrals, but some mathematicians have made quite a lot out of being extremely good computers.
 
12:35 PM
Let's consider $\displaystyle f(x)=\frac{1}{1+x^2}$. Compute $$\sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \left(\frac{f^{(4n)}(1)}{(4n)!}+\frac{f^{(2n)}(1)}{(2n)!}\right)$$
 
I mean, a better observation are the quantities we make from qualitative analysis.
Turning ideas into mathematics.
 
@Chris'ssis I am recommending nothing to you. I am just pointing out that I agree with Pedro's comment. Well, not quite, I agree with your correction of Pedro's comment.
 
That's the BEST part of mathematics in my opinion ^_^.
 
Integrals are surely part of mathematics. But there is more to it =)
 
That sum that @Chris'ssis gave might be useful to know in some actual theoretical argument, or something similar. To practice on such things are not a waste of time and many of the absolute best hard analysists I know are very good computers.
 
12:37 PM
@BalarkaSen When someone says "Math is not about computing crazy integrals." you'd expect that someone else said before "Math is about computing crazy integrals." No one said that! Is that a part of the cooking? (in case it's not a part of math)
 
Pure mathematics is the applied mathematics of tomorrow.
3
What do we think about that quote?
My statistics lecturer mentioned it.
 
nice^
 
So a tip is not to be so categorical about things @BalarkaSen .
 
I thought it was great too! In fact, I tried to imagine a time when a well known concept that is applied today was a "pure mathematical" abstraction.
 
When you say that "series have nothing to do with analysis" that is a very strong statement . Some tenured mathematicians have made careers out of computing series and integrals. I wouldn't say that it is an integral part of analysis , but it is of a part of analysis at least.
 
12:41 PM
@GustavoMontano I think it's a perfectly true comment.
 
Share it with the world :D.
 
@Chris'ssis Indeed, Pedro was incorrect to say that integrals are not part of mathematics. That is why I starred both of your comments.
 
@user101036 True.
 
@user101036 I understand analysis to be soft analysis, thus the comment.
 
Analysis is broad. It is not in general only soft analysis.
Carleson's theorem theorem is very much hard analysis, and I would call that analysis like nothing else.
 
12:45 PM
Yes, I would have to disagree with Pedro at a literal level. But I think we all know what he was trying to say.
 
@IceBoy You know Pedro =P
 
@BalarkaSen For example, consider the following:
 
Metaphor for "grow up and do some real maths :p" ?
 
@user101036 I have a lot of mental blocks about mathematics, I can't help not being categorical.
 
If f:[0,1]-> C is lebesgue measurable, then f \in L^\infty([0,1]) iff fg \in L^2([0,1]) for every g \in L^2([0,1]). One implication is trivial, the other is trickier. The easiest approach I know of uses hard analysis and the proof is about 4-5 sentences. The soft analysis approach takes almost over a page.
 
12:49 PM
The branch I like to think about is number theory and algebra (mostly ring-field-galois, not group) so I kinda super-hate analysis.
 
both proofs have merit
Well, I am not an analyst but if you are into number theory, analysis will become important there as well
 
I am ignorant. Meh.
 
you have for example Tate's thesis on harmonical analysis on adeles
 
I know, I know, but I am still ignorant =P
I am just a beginner. I hope to shift up this mental blocks if I learn more.
*these
 
Huy
@BalarkaSen: What exactly is soft analysis?
 
12:51 PM
The only kind of analysis I like is complex analysis =P
 
@BalarkaSen Then you shouldn't give any piece of advice to the others ... (frankly speaking). You say it clearly that you're ignorant.
 
@Huy Rudin-type analysis
 
Huy
@BalarkaSen: I'm sorry, I never read Rudin's books.
 
@Chris'ssis I haven't. you misunderstood me if you think I did
 
I don't mean to be mean or anything. Just give it some time and be open to all mathematics you find interesting. If you don't like some kind of mathematics the best thing is to just keep it to oneself. We all have a lot to learn and it is not unwise to be humble and thankful for all parts of mathematics (even if that part doesn't suit oneself)
3
 
12:55 PM
Complex analysis! By far my favourite course!
 
Indeed, @user101036. I just can't cope up with Rudin-type analysis.
 
Beautiful.
 
@GustavoMontano Excellent.
 
HAve you looked at Stein's books? I mean, Rudin's books are in general very terse
 
@user101036 nuh-huh.
 
12:56 PM
you might like it. It uses analysis to prove stuff in number theory and so on
 
I have read Apostol though, but I guess it's just hard analysis.
 
It ispart of the "Princeton series in analysis" or something
 
@user101036 Oh! Will definitely look.
I kind of like to stick to my algebra though.
 
If that is what you want to do, by all means. one shuld do the kind of math one likes
Regarding the books : Therearefour books, covering topics in graduate analysis but if you can read Rudin you can definitely read them.
I , who am very interested in number theory and algebraic geometry wish I actually knew more analysis.
 

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