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2:28 AM
@JoseAntonio I've seen you a lot recently, working on these algebra things. Are you taking a class? How's it going so far?
 
2:41 AM
Hi @mixedmath Yes I'm taking algebra but I'm working for myself with a lot of exercises.
I'm a little disappointed, I'm having a lot of troubles with some exercises and also understanding proof in algebra.
at this moment i´m trying to undersand the proof of Hagen in the link, jaja
 
 
3 hours later…
5:47 AM
This chat is dead.
 
Greetings @robjohn @JasperLoy @r9m
 
Greetings.
 
@skullpatrol Hi
 
@Chris'ssis Hi! I am very fat now, I need to start running again.
 
@JasperLoy How fat? Could you give some figures?
 
5:55 AM
@Chris'ssis I am 1.65 m and 70 kg, lol. I used to be 60 kg.
 
@JasperLoy I don't think this is that bad. Some jogging might help you to get again 60 kg.
 
Together with a bit of dieting :-)
 
Yesterday I went to the park and walked for 2 hours.
 
Are your legs sore?
 
No, I am used to walking long.
 
6:01 AM
The whole idea of exercise is to do something you're not used to doing, but don't over do it.
 
Yes, I think I lack the motivation to exercise.
 
Motivation comes from within. You have to want to do it for yourself.
 
Yes, you are right. I just feel too depressed each day. But I think I am slowly getting better.
In the past, I used to run about one hour every day.
 
I think you can do it :-)
 
So I went to see the army doctor and got downgraded i.e. I have less things to do but I still need to do my reservist, lol.
Anyway, once I reach 40, I will have no more reservist, yay!
 
6:14 AM
oh.. there is some life in this chat
hello all
 
Welcome.
 
thanks, i've been here a few times but it was always idle
i am a SE noob, more or less (13 days)
 
I have been here for 3 years, but I keep deleting my accounts, so currently my account is less than a month old, lol.
 
ha, what's old is young again as they say
 
@robjohn Did you attend this one?
$$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\left(\frac{1}{2}((-1)^{n+1}+2)-2\log(2)+ \eta(2)-\eta(3)+\cdots+(-1)^{n}\eta(n)\right)=\eta(2)-\frac{3}{4}$$
 
6:59 AM
It's also worth creating $$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}(-1)^{n+1} n\left(\frac{1}{2}((-1)^{n+1}+2)-2\log(2)+ \eta(2)-\eta(3)+\cdots+(-1)^{n}\eta(n)\right)$$
 
@Chris'ssis are you going to contribute some of your creations to the MSE Blog?
 
Maybe after publishing my book.
 
icic
 
@Chris'ssis Can you recommend an easy exercise from Furdui's book for me to do next? :)
 
Sure, just let me open the book. ;)
@rehband Try 1.14.
 
7:12 AM
@Chris'ssis Will do, thank you!
 
@rehband Welcome ;)
brb
 
 
1 hour later…
8:15 AM
@rehband Apply the strategy in my answer here
 
@Chris'ssis Yes okay . Awesome problem. Sry, I just got the first image, what was the second message you removed? :)
 
@blue
 
@rehband I only asked you if you saw the image.
 
@Chris'ssis Okay, nice
 
@rehband Thanks! :-)
@rehband I'd like to add that to my book.
 
8:24 AM
Ah, @r9m, can you help me out with a problem?
 
r9m
@BalarkaSen I can try ,, :}
 
Maybe you are already familiar with it -- it's somewhat Olympiad-ish
 
@Chris'ssis I'm still reviewing the image, but amazing so far!
 
r9m
@Chris'ssis Hi :)
 
@r9m Hello! :-)
 
r9m
8:25 AM
@BalarkaSen what is it ?
 
@r9m I want to prove that there always exists an integer a and an integer k such that (n + 1)^a => 2^k => n^a. Is it obvious?
Am I just being stooopid?
 
r9m
@BalarkaSen what are => ?
 
greater or equal to
 
r9m
oh wait ..
 
I am not getting it
Empirically it seems almost always true, but when it comes to proving it...
 
r9m
8:30 AM
@BalarkaSen what happens when you take $\log_2$
 
nothing special
try it yourself.
the complexity of the problem seems to remain the same. except that you may have a good reason to invoke some diophantine approximations now.
 
r9m
I feel like its .. existence of a rational a.k.a $\frac{k}{a}$ between $\log_2 n$ and $\log_2 n+1$ :|
 
yes, but it's totally not obvious
oops, i gotta go.
 
r9m
?? $\log_2 n < \log_2 n+1$ right ? there's gotta be a rational between two other real numbers .. :o
 
@r9m hmm?
oops i forgot to mention that a is even.
 
8:36 AM
They call that density.
 
i know, i know.
drat it should be easy now.
never figured out about logging.
 
r9m
;)
 
@r9m thanks. it's part of some other problem i am doing.
wait a tick
precisely. i wanted to prove something else. i need that result where $a$ is a perfect power of $2$ @r9m
sorry for posting a wrong question.
no i definitely need this one. no other way. totally sure.
 
r9m
@BalarkaSen ic ..
 
8:52 AM
so now we have to prove that there is a rational in $[\log_2 n, \log_2 (n + 1)]$ which has denominator a perfect power of $2$. Clearly there are infinitely many rationals in that interval.
 
@Chris'ssis What do you use to write things down like that? I'm going to start doing that as well
 
but we can always pick up a rational of given denominator from an interval with two rational limit points, no?
 
@rehband This site's editor.
 
@Chris'ssis Okay
 
r9m
@BalarkaSen yes .. all denominators greater than a certain one ..
@BalarkaSen see the binary representation of $\log_2 n$ and $\log_2 (n+1)$, we have to look at the first place they differ starting from left ..
 
8:55 AM
@r9m how can i know a binary rep if i don't know $n$? :|
i am speaking in a severe sort of tone of generality
 
r9m
bbl
 
later pal
 
9:13 AM
@Chris'ssis In the image you sent me, after you put $\sin^2(x) = a$, how did you know to factor things like that? I wouldn't have thought of that!
 
9:28 AM
@rehband It's just a simple notation that eased my work there :-)
@rehband Well, I have some experience with limits.
 
9:52 AM
@Chris'ssis Indeed :)
 
10:37 AM
@Chris'ssis What are the prerequisites to read your book?
 
@JasperLoy I didn't publish anything yet ... I'll tell you more when I'm about to publish it (maybe during the next year, or I do some miracles and finish it this year?:-) - dunno)
 
@Chris'ssis There can be miracles when you believe, lol.
 
hehe :-)
 
11:38 AM
Hi
In the Table of Integrals Handbook, what is mean by this notation; "MI 39, EH III 222(16)"
 
@mixedmath oooo do 3. please, that sounds really cool :3
 
@AndrewG >8( geometer
but well, i'm interested in modforms and lattice counting.
@mixedmath Do the third one.
 
see, Balarka, you are secretly interested in geometry after all :D
embrace the dark side
 
@AndrewG: Geometry is Green!
 
@AndrewG I have decided to help blue in farming an army of 10k+ers to corule the world with him and banish all the geometers and analyst from the world with the help of inter-portal guillotine evil scientist laughter
 
11:52 AM
Heya
I really liked this problem, let R(1)=R(2)=1 and R(n) = R(n-R(n-1)) + R(n-R(n-2)) what is R(77)?
 
@BalarkaSen: Are you sure we don't need them?
 
@Chris'ssis Hi, have you seen this identity before : $\pi^3=\zeta(3,1/4) - 28\zeta(3)$ ? Thank you.
 
@Yasser Hi. I don't remember anything like that now.
 
@Chris'ssis Okay, thanks for answering :).
 
@Yasser But it's not hard to prove that.
 
12:07 PM
@Chris'ssis For you sure ;P, what did you use ?
 
@Yasser There are more possible approaches.
All gets reduced to computing $$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{1}{(4n-3)^3}$$
 
@Nick That's it. You're out from the to-be administrative board.
 
@Yasser Note that the series can be expressed in terms of polygamma function.
 
@BalarkaSen: I mean, do we really have to kill them. Banishing doesn't need to imply execution.
 
12:22 PM
@Chris'ssis I don't follow, are you reducing $\zeta(3,1/4) - 28\zeta(3)=\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{1}{(4n-3)^3}$ ?
 
We don't want any future rebel activities, @Nick
 
@Yasser No, but the core of your question is to compute that series.
 
We don't want another Grothendiek, we don't.
 
@Chris'ssis Hm I have to think about it..Thank you!
 
@Yasser $$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{1}{(4n-3)^3}=\lim_{N\to\infty}1/128 ( \psi^{(2)}(1/4 + N)-\psi^{(2)}(1/4) )=1/128 \psi^{(2)}(1/4)$$
 
12:24 PM
@BalarkaSen: .. Their greatest weapon is trigonometry. That's not much of a threat.
 
@Nick You don't know half as much about geometers half as well as myself.
 
@Chris'ssis Not sure we can have a closed form for this series.
 
@Yasser I missed a sign
 
@Chris'ssis So we have $$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{1}{(4n-3)^3}=-\frac{1}{128}\psi^{(2)}(1/4) )$$
 
@Yasser Now, look at $(29)$ here mathworld.wolfram.com/PolygammaFunction.html
Sorry for mistakes, but I'm terribly tired.
 
12:29 PM
@Chris'ssis Great!!!
No problem thanks for your time!
 
@Yasser Welcome! :-)
 
@Chris'ssis You should go to sleep.
 
@JasperLoy I think I'll stop doing math for a while.
 
@Chris'ssis I am going to sleep too, I will see you in my dreams.
 
@JasperLoy hehehe :D
 
12:44 PM
@robjohn can you un-community wiki this please math.stackexchange.com/a/909701/33907?
 
12:55 PM
Don't you just hate when u have to buy groceries, cook food, do laundry and can't do math for 2 hours :P
 
@robjohn @r9m in case you want a bounty - math.stackexchange.com/questions/877143/…
@rehband some breaks are needed once in a while :-)
 
@Chris'ssis Hehe true
 
1:23 PM
Hey, how can I make Wolfram do $\Delta (x^2 + xy + y^2)$
(differentiation respect to a hidden variable for which $x$ and $y$ are functions of) <-- Not the best description XD
 
@Chris'ssis how d'you know it has a closed form?
 
@BalarkaSen My inner feeling ...
 
that's just a guess. i think it doesn't.
hey @Khallil!
 
1:51 PM
@Chris'ssis Rethinking about $\sum_{i \leq n} \sum_{j \leq n} \frac1{i+j}$, this sum is just $\sum_{k = 1}^{2n} \frac{c_k}{k}$ where $c_k$ is the number of ways to partition $k$ into two integers with each of them $\leq n$, no? I think this is a doable approach to obtain a closed form (number theoretically).
 
@BalarkaSen You must be careful about doing that. First, not there you don't have $k=1$, but $k=2$.
 
fair enough
it starts from k = 2
 
@BalarkaSen Each $1/k$ appears $k-1$ times.
 
@Chris'ssis no.
$2n$ appears only once, for example.
 
@BalarkaSen Yeah, that's true, but I was thinking of the infinite case and that last term doesn't count.
 
1:55 PM
but infinite case is irrelevant here
you are doing a $\leq n$ restricted partition.
 
@BalarkaSen I said why I wrote that $1/k$ appears $k−1$ times.
 
@Chris'ssis if you have a free partition, yes.
but not in this case.
every term after $1/n$ appears not more than twice.
 
@BalarkaSen The same story for $k=2$.
 
wat?
you're not making sense
or rather, i cannot make sense of it.
 
@BalarkaSen You don't understand because you look at your series with mistakes.
 
1:59 PM
@Chris'ssis I'd be glad if you point me out my mistakes. I am just an amateur, remember that.
My claim is that $$\sum_{i \leq n} \sum_{j \leq n} \frac1{i + j} = \sum_{k \leq 2n} \frac{c_k}{k}$$
$c_k$ is the number of partition of $k$ in $2$ terms, each $\leq n$
 
@BalarkaSen You're not an amateur anymore. You have stayed around this place for a long period of time. :D
 
@Chris'ssis Well, I consider myself an amateur when it comes to series and integrals. I haven't thought a lot about them lately.
 
I meant that $1/2$ appeares only one time.
 
@Chris'ssis That's because $c_2 = 1$. $1 + 1 = 2$.
 
@BalarkaSen That's for sure, but this is simply because it's the beginnig point.
 
2:03 PM
@Chris'ssis Yeah, but I am just trying to justify my claim. Do you agree with my claim?
 
@BalarkaSen $c_2=1$ since $c_k=k-1$
 
@Chris'ssis No.
$c_{2n} = 1 \neq 2n - 1$
That's my whole point.
What you are thinking is free partitions.
$c_k = k - 1$ if and only if $k \leq n$
 
@BalarkaSen I'm afraid you only want to understand what you want to understand and create situations in which you want to correct me (there is nothing to correct). Since you're so good, I let you finish the whole thing. :-)
@BalarkaSen when you're done, compute this $$ \lim_{n\to\infty} \frac{1}{n} \sum_{i=1}^{n} \sum_{j=1}^{n} \frac{1}{i+j} $$
@rehband Yeah, right. :-)
 
@Chris'ssis This is just rude of you. If you can't communicate with people well and just want to be rude to the ones who point out your errors, it's better to ignore you.
@Chris'ssis OK, give me some time and I'll let you know if I finish it.
 
@BalarkaSen lol, I was not rude at all. I might also think there is just a language barrier between us (say). :-)
 
2:15 PM
Hey, @BalarkaSen. ^_^
 
@Chris'ssis Ask anyone around us. It was an unfriendly comment.
 
@Chris'ssis I did it with Stolz Cesaro and then squeezing. Is there a different/better way to do this?
 
I'll be back in about 10 minutes. Gotta eat.
 
Rude is calling someone a pointed troll.
 
@skull That was a joke. There is nothing called a pointed troll.
 
2:17 PM
@rehband Stolz Cesaro & Riemann sums
 
@Chris'ssis Do you mind sharing your method with Riemann sums? :)
 
@rehband Sure. Applying Stolz-Cesaro theorem, all gets reduced to computing $$\lim_{n\to\infty} \left(\sum_{i=1}^{n+1} \sum_{j=1}^{n+1} \frac{1}{i+j}-\sum_{i=1}^{n} \sum_{j=1}^{n} \frac{1}{i+j}\right)$$
 
@Chris'ssis Yes
 
@rehband Now imagine a squared board with all the terms of the first series.
 
This is just $$ 2\sum_{i=1}^{n} \frac{1}{i+n+1} + \frac{1}{2n+2}$$ right?
 
2:21 PM
@rehband Yeap.
 
Now you did something with Riemann sums?
 
@rehband now you can arrrange things such that you get $$\lim_{n\to\infty} \frac{2}{n}\sum_{k=1}^{n} \frac{1}{1+k/n}$$ and the rest of the terms do not count.
 
@Chris'ssis Oh...are we changing the summation index?
 
This is obviously $$2\int_0^1 \frac{1}{1+x} \ dx=2\log(2) $$
 
Yes
 
2:25 PM
@rehband I only used $k$ instead of $i$ (it doesn't count).
Done.
 
Ok I see thank you. Easy enough :) I did too much unnecessary work
 
@rehband Welcome
 
Hmm
 
@rehband Wait, it's OK. I misread the way you wrote things (since the common cell appears for $i=n+1$ and $j=n+1$)
 
Back.
 
2:31 PM
Okay :)
 
@rehband Do you see another way of finishing the limit?
 
@Chris'ssis Well, I had written down a rather ugly way on paper. I'm in the process of writing it down your way on the computer now
 
@rehband OK
 
Hello, there!! Mind if I did ask for an advice
??
 
Askaway
 
2:53 PM
hi all, I wonder if anyone knows the name of a particular method for solving a system of linear equations in a computer because I want to learn more about it. The method (independently of what it uses in the backend), zero-outs rows and columns of prescribed values of the system and places a 1 in the diagonal.
 
I was just calculating an integral via a trigonometric substitution and ended up with something pretty nonsensical but reversing the substitution seemed to clean it up.
$$\begin{aligned} \int_{0}^{\frac{\pi}{2}} \dfrac{\text{d}\theta}{3+5\cos \theta} \ & \overset{t=\tan \frac{\theta}{2}}= \ \dfrac{1}{4} \log \left| \dfrac{2+t}{2-t} \right| \Bigg|_{0}^{\infty} \\ & \ \ = \dfrac{1}{4} \log \left| \dfrac{2+\tan\frac{\theta}{2}}{2-\tan\frac{\theta}{2}} \right| \Bigg|_{0}^{\frac{\pi}{2}} \end{aligned}$$
Why is that the case? Is it something to do with the nature of the substitution?
Is there something I'm not considering when performing the substitution?
 
How do I create these things { } flipped horizontally under an expression in the editor of this site?
 
@aaragon Gaussian elimination.
@rehband You mean \underbrace?
 
@AntonioVargas that's not what I meant, I know you have tons of ways to solve for this, but in a computer there's a better way
 
@AntonioVargas Sounds right, thanks!
 
3:06 PM
Remember that you should have it look like this, @rehband.
\underbrace{What you want to be underlined}_{What you'll have underneath it}
 
@aaragon What you described sure sounds a lot like gaussian elimination. It's also called "row reduction" in a more general sense.
 
@Khallil Fantastic, merci
 
A similar principle applies to the over brace, @rehband.
\overbrace{What you want to be 'over braced'}^{What you'll have on top of it}
 
@Khallil Great, good to know
 
^_^
You're quite savvy with integrals, @rehband. Could you take a look at my question above?
 
3:08 PM
@AntonioVargas Thanks
 
@Khallil Wikipedia is way slow for me right now...
 
It isn't for me. However, here is what I'm talking about, @AntonioVargas:
 
@Khallil I wonder if it's the same editor inserting them?
 
At this point, we can only guess, but it's safe to say that they are pretty cool, @AntonioVargas. ^_^
 
3:22 PM
@Khallil I'm afraid I'm not too sure what's going on in your integral question, sorry (and I'm still an integral newbie :) )
 
Thanks for having a look! I'm also still in my integral diapers, @rehband. You're not alone! ^_^
 
Hehe
 
3:46 PM
@Chris'ssis Do you see an easy way of proving $$\sqrt{2} \leq \int_0^{\pi/2} \sqrt[n]{\sin^n x+\cos^n x}dx \leq \sqrt{2} \sqrt[n]{2}$$? :)
 
3:57 PM
@rehband A way better than Furdui's way? hmmm, hard to find one. This is a result he uses for one of his limits.
 
@Chris'ssis Oh crap, I totally misread what Furdui wrote in the book. Yes, nevermind, his way is quite easy & understandable. Sorry for the dumb question
 
I'm mad, my both 2 little dogs are sick ... :-(
 
Sorry for confusing you earlier, @rehband. I made the mistake of thinking that $\tan \frac{\pi}{4} = \infty$. >_>
 
@Chris'ssis I'm very sorry to hear :(
@Khallil All good :)
 
Is that a Pokémon in your avatar, @blue?
 
4:11 PM
no
 
Oh, it looked like a Grotle with an alternatively coloured Bowser shell, @blue.
 
if you know about bowser, you should know about http://www.mariowiki.com/Spiny_Shell_(Mario_Kart)
 
Ah, I haven't played any of the Mario Kart games. I've been more into Zelda, @blue.
 
4:45 PM
I have a meeting now (bbl).
 
5:20 PM
@PedroTamaroff I have a problem for you.
 
@BalarkaSen: I have a problem for you.
 
Askaway
 
@Nick: In polynomial equations, we had those sum and product rules. What was it called?
 
Have been studying for long, have you?
 
... no.
I think that's the problem XD
 
5:26 PM
Ah, wrong guess. I was wondering what was the reason behind for pinging yourself.
Failure in copying Holmes.
 
@Nick: I'm pinging myself?
 
2 mins ago, by Nick
@Nick: In polynomial equations, we had those sum and product rules. What was it called?
^ That
To answer the question, btw, I have to first understand it. What do you mean by sum and product rules?
 
... O_O ... I hope that's not the beginning to any serious mental problem which I don't already have.
@Nick: What do you mean?
 
@Nick I was hoping that you did something that meddled your brain.
@Nick I dunno.
At least not in the context of polynomials.
 
(x- a)(x-b) = x^2 + (a+b)x + ab
^That
The sum and product thing
 
5:30 PM
Ah.
Elementary symmetric polynomials.
 
Factoring patterns.
 
Lemi, Luca, ... I forgot the name
I use it for cubics as well
 
Some like to call them Newton's identities, which is wrong, because those are a different set of symmetric objects, usually called powersum formulas.
Some also like calling them Vieta's identities.
 
Yes!!
Vieta!
That's what I wanted to ask you.
 
No, that's the answer you expected.
Knew it from the beginning.
 
5:33 PM
How would you express the coefficients of $x^{n-r}$ using the sigma and pi prod
 
@Nick $\sum x_i$
Grr,you changed that.
$\sum_i \prod_{j = 1}^r x_j$
2
 
I'm sorry I can't be clearer. Actually, I could have typed all the equations out and saved you the trouble of guessing what I'm asking for.
But suddenly, math seems so complicated.
 
Analogize. Coefficients of $x^{n - 1}$ is $x_1 + x_2 + \text{blah}$. For $x^{n - 2}$ it's $x_1 x_2 + x_1 x_3 + x_2 x_3 + \text{blah}$
 
x_i are the roots?
 
Yes.
 
5:36 PM
Cool
I was playing with that pattern for so long. Didn't think it was so simple
 
For $x^{n - r}$, it's bound to be $\sum \prod x_j$, the product being taken over $r$ roots and there are $\binom{n}{r}$ terms in the summation.
 
O_O I knew it!
 
It's quite elementary. Thus they are called 'elementary symmetric polynomials'.
 
... no i didn't, but I felt it a bit.
@BalarkaSen: Well, thanks a bunch, now I'll just be verifying all that you said. Again, any links or resources that'll help me learn more?
 
Symmetric in the sense that if you interchange the roots, these multivariate miscreants stay put fixed.
 
5:40 PM
Cool.
 
@Nick Hmm, well, try some of the first few chapters of V. V. Prasolov.
Stop the starring. It's annoying.
 
I'm sorry, I'm not totally in my senses
$\implies $ I'm even more senseless than I usually am
@BalarkaSen: I had a bad week.
A bad 2 weeks.
 
Bad in what sense?
 
I haven't gone to school since last Monday. I haven't been attending test prep for JEE.
 
Me neither actually.
 
5:45 PM
Initially, I was sick. So, there was a real excuse in the beginning,
Now, I'm just depressed O_O
 
Why though?
 
I don't know.
(Sickness was just food poisoning)
Depression $\implies$ I've been feeling blue
 
@blue!
Awwwwyeah.
 
Usually, I study or do some maths or physics when I'm not in school. But I didn't feel like doing anything
 
Our idea of influencing math people by funky usernames are working. The first step in world domination!
 
5:48 PM
:D I sure do love your spunk, BalSensai
 
spunk?
I don't know what that means.
 
Attitude.
 
... anyhoo, any clues on how to lift my spirits?
 
@skullpatrol Ah, OK. Thanks.
@Nick I've a question about physics. Pretty basic one.
 
@skullpatrol: Skull, have you ever felt what I'm going through.
@BalarkaSen: Usually, I'd be really excited about that. Now, I'm just like, meh. But fire away.
 
5:50 PM
Everybody feels down sometimes.
It's normal.
 
@skullpatrol: Yeah but not for 2 weeks, during which 3 days I cover myself under blankets and refuse to move at all!
 
Have you seen a doctor?
 
@skullpatrol: ... Last doctor I went to said I had appendicitis. I don't think I'd like a doctor.
 
@Nick Hypothetically speaking, what'd happen if some perfect ray of light issued from a perfect point source is projected upon a point of the reflector at which there exists infinitely many tangents (like a kink)?
@Nick I think consulting a doctor would be better. @skull is right.
 
I'm not crazy am I? O_O
 
5:55 PM
Go to a specialist @Nick
 
Not everybody is crazy if they get into some psychological problem, @Nick.
@skullpatrol Apologies if you minded about calling you a troll. Sorry, man.
 
@BalarkaSen: You have describe point of the reflector at which there exists infinitely many tangents.
 
@Nick Yes, I have.
What would happen to reflection, in that case?
 
A kink?
 
5:57 PM
Oh!
 
@Nick Would there be any reflection at all? I can't deduce anything by thought experimenting.
Perhaps the light beam would generate a spectrum once reflected, but I have no reason to believe that.
 
Take a flashlight and shine it directly on a mirror.
There's your answer
 
A mirror is a smooth surface.
How about a surface with a point like that one above ^
 

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