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Just write slower!
00:44
@mixedmath
@PeterTamaroff hihi
@mixedmath $\sup$?
@PeterTamaroff Not so much - a bit of work here, a bit of work there. I've just been asked to teach a number theory course this summer, and I have to start thinking about that
@mixedmath Are you excited about it?
that is, a summer exploratory course for high schoolers
@PeterTamaroff Yeah! I love number theory, and it was my first elementary number theory course that first got me into math
00:49
@mixedmath How nice.
I hated math prior - I was not interested in calculus and the like. I was under the (too common) impression that rote calculation was all that math was
@mixedmath I think I'll switch from Landau's book to Ireland and Rosen to study, though I insist Landau's proofs, when read with care, are quite good.
@mixedmath "rote calculation"?
@PeterTamaroff That's funny, I also just gave a talk to Rosen of Ireland and Rosen about a paper I've been writing
he's an emeritus here
@mixedmath WOW!
@mixedmath Tell him I cannot afford his book, and that I am sorry!
@PeterTamaroff By this, I mean calculation without any thought. Many calculus and earlier classes are taught without any emphasis on understanding what you're doing, but instead the ability to perform certain calculations
00:51
@mixedmath Oh, I see.
@PeterTamaroff That's too bad. When I first used it, I pulled it out of a library
@mixedmath Oh, we don't have that kind of thing here in Argentina, AFAIK.
Like, I don't even think one can get a copy of Rudin!!!
this reminds me of another time, when I was trying to donate some math books to a public library in my hometown, and they rejected them because they didn't think anyone would use them
@mixedmath Do you think I&R is the book?
@PeterTamaroff I really like it for an intro to non-elementary number theory
00:55
@mixedmath Oh, but I am learning elementary number theory, like that in Landau, or Burton.
@PeterTamaroff do you know abstract algebra and complex numbers?
rather, what do you know of those?
hmm, rather - let me think about what you actually need to understand it - let me pull out my copy (which is right next to me)
I wonder if landscape deleted his/her answer here so they could undelete it at the 11th hour for the bounty. Seems like a perfect answer.
@mixedmath Well, from abstract algebra I know about group theory and ring theory.
Say groups, congruences, normal subgroups, the isomorphism theorems, sylow, cycles, cycle decomposition, sylow and other stuff. Basically, BA I's chapter on Group Theory, and I have just started out with Rings.
It seems that you need to know some things about groups, rings and fields (in particular ideals, and later material assumes some Galois Theory
but for the first 11 chapters, just knowing what a ring, field, and ideal seem sufficient
maybe I'm wrong - but I bet you have enough of a background to do it and pick up what you don'
t know along the way
@skullpatrol hi
00:59
@mixedmath Hmm yes. Maybe I can give Landau a chance and then move on?
@PeterTamaroff geeeeeeeeeeez
I like the guy!
@PeterTamaroff That sounds pretty reasonable. I don't remember that book as much. I suppose if you like it, then there's not so much reason to leave it
@Charlie hi
@skullpatrol :D
01:02
@Charlie :D
I learned elementary number theory from a book by Kenneth Rosen (not Mike Rosen), and I loved it - but I felt a bit cheated when I revisited it after I learned some algebra
we spent all this time developing material to state Euler's theorem and what not, which is trivial after you know algebra
@mixedmath hi
@Charlie hihi
@skullpatrol ;)
@Charlie B-)
01:03
@skullpatrol hahahaha
@Charlie :D:D:D:D
@skullpatrol :)))
@Charlie yipyipyip
@skullpatrol yipyipyip
@mixedmath Hehe, so true!
01:05
In fact, one of the things that I'm looking forward to about this summer number theory course is revisiting some of these old-fashioned elementary arguments
@skullpatrol Ah... sigh
@Charlie tired?
@Charlie or satiated...
@PeterTamaroff yeah, exactly
01:07
@skullpatrol a bit, but I sighed becaused I am here studying and listening some good music, after a revigorating bath.
hey @robjohn. I don't think you guys made it nearly clear enough that answers are not for comments over here.
is back from the afk cemetery
@DanZimm Welcome back :D
01:09
so, so, so-what?
not sure
@DanZimm I thought only i did it :P
@Charlie did what?
@DanZimm I say "so" with no reason
@anon That's funny. But to be fair, I understand why robjohn left a comment too. They've changed it so that the last mod comment on a deleted answer stay in the inbox even if the answer is deleted. So robjohn wrote that and then immediately deleted the answer, so that the answerer could read it whenever
it's nonetheless surprising that so many people left that comment
01:12
heh yea just feel like something should be said
@PeterTamaroff oh that's funny - and essentially the same answer. Nice -
@DanZimm yeah, exactly
3 mins ago, by skullpatrol
so, so, so-what?
@skullpatrol so so so
Once Dirac told Bohr 'In school they taught me never start a sentence that you don't know how to finish.'
01:16
We improvise
so buttons on your underwear will make them look pretty
get it, its a command, like sew buttons...
"so" sounds like "sew"
then you have something to say after: so...
sew buttons on your underwear will make them look pretty
Now you can finish the sentence.
01:22
;O
Wow I just found out that Albert Einstein said of Dirac "This balancing on the dizzying path between genius and madness is awful" referring to his autistic traits.
His mathematical brilliance, however, means he is regarded as one of the most significant physicists of the 20th century.
@mixedmath I am curious about something.
good
01:26
@Charlie good what?
@skullpatrol Pedro is curious
@skullpatrol naw not Einstein ;)
@DanZimm What do you mean?
was joking but was trying to imply einstein wasn't a big deal
@DanZimm "I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious".
01:29
EPR
@Charlie Einstein Public Relations?
Einstein Podolski Rosen
I read a story with Godel
@PeterTamaroff So was the cat.
01:32
He was getting his american citizenship, and reading usa constitution, Godel saw that it was possible (logically) to usa declare a dictatorship
Then, before he finishes, einstein poked him to stop talking
@Charlie I read that.
@PeterTamaroff how cute, pedro
@Charlie What does that have to do with EPR?
@skullpatrol nothing
@Charlie yipyipyip
:D
01:36
@Charlie Einstein poked him on facebook?
@skullpatrol :DD
@GustavoBandeira Godel wouldn't have fb
@Charlie Oh, another hipster?
@GustavoBandeira Godel....
@Charlie Yes, I was refeering to him.
@mixedmath Are you there?
01:39
this pic inspires me
:')
@Charlie Inspire at what? Having beards and mustaches? You should know you'll never have those.
@GustavoBandeira there's a person in this pic who also never had beard...
@Charlie Yes. @OldJohn I bet he's in there.
can you find @skull ?
@Charlie Currie
01:43
@skullpatrol Curry! Delicious!
@skullpatrol the second person sat down, from right to left. Maria Skłodowska Curie.
@Charlie Yes, she was inspirational.
She IS
and her daughter too.
@skullpatrol No. She was there making snacks to the guys.
01:46
@Argon AAROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
@PeterTamaroff hrm? did I say that somewhere or is that from Einstein?
sounds like something id say
@Charlie That was long!!
Hi!
@DanZimm That is from Einstein.
@Argon Hi!! how was your yom tov?
ah ok very good!
learn something every day :D
01:47
@Charlie Tov
@Argon :)))
@Argon lots of fun?
@Charlie Yep. And lots of food
@Argon YUM
Yum!
An anecdote recounted in a review of the 2009 biography tells of Werner Heisenberg and Dirac sailing on a cruise ship to a conference in Japan in August 1929. "Both still in their twenties, and unmarried, they made an odd couple. Heisenberg was a ladies' man who constantly flirted and danced,
while Dirac—'an Edwardian geek', as biographer Graham Farmelo puts it—suffered agonies if forced into any kind of socialising or small talk. 'Why do you dance?' Dirac asked his companion. 'When there are nice girls, it is a pleasure,' Heisenberg replied. Dirac pondered this notion, then blurted out: 'But, Heisenberg, how do you know beforehand that the girls are nice?'"
01:52
I love/hate it when I think days about something, I struggle and struggle and then it turns out the proof I come up with is a very simple proof and people are like "well yeah" :P
@skullpatrol If he had alcohol in his blood, every girl would be nice.
@DanZimm Same, bro.
I read that Alber Einstein used to sleep without pajamas
or any clothing
Yes, he was a playboy.
does @amWhy ever come in here? I feel like he's brilliant
@DanZimm She.
01:58
And sometimes.
yes she
Erwin Schrodinger had a child with another woman, who was not his wife
@PeterTamaroff and @Argon thank you for the correction
also, note this @Ethan and @skullpatrol my first (removed)!
@DanZimm No problem :)
@DanZimm Why me, I have no problem with it...
02:01
@skullpatrol was a joke hehe
So did Littlewood
@Charlie I do that too.
Difference is...
...I use erotic oil.
Hawking left his wife for his nurse.
@skullpatrol Gauss married twice
so did einstein
Euler had 11 children
Hardy was homossexual
so was turing
@peter do you like Mafalda ?
02:06
@Charlie I do.
@PeterTamaroff yeah, it's funny
@Charlie It is also damn spot on =D
she's everywhere
@PeterTamaroff We have Turma da Mônica
it's funny
Good night guys
@skull
@peter
night
Calling all william?
02:21
@Charlie Yes?
Okay, hey
@WilliamStagner ?
@WilliamStagner ello
@DanZimm Are these cardinality proofs for an analysis class?
@WilliamStagner no, just for fun, personal learning
I'm actually supposed to be reading on sequences of functions
and measure theory
lol
02:28
@DanZimm Oh, good. Have you proved the countability of the rationals?
not personally, read the proof on that one by cantor
Oh, does LaTeX work in chat?
@Peter: Sorry, in and out
if you install it
@Peter: What were you curious about?
02:29
@mixedmath Oh, noes.
Well, next time it will be.
@mixedmath About why the following algorithm for finding the quadratic residues modulo a prime $p$ always works out, and prove there are $(p-1)/2$ non residues and $(p-1)/2$ residues.
Well, actually, looking for a rigorous proof.
@DanZimm Gotcha. After you prove that $A\setminus B$ is uncountable, it would be fun to prove that the union of countably many countable sets is countable.
@PeterTamaroff You're looking for a proof that half are Rs and half are NRs?
ok - give me a moment
Which is kind of counterintuitive, I think.
02:33
@mixedmath Well, first we must use that $(p-x)^2\equiv x^2\mod p$.
This is what strikes out half. Like say $\{1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10\}$ upon squaring gives $$\{1,4,9,5,3,3,5,9,4,1\}$$
And this proves the residues are $1,4,9,5,3$.
@WilliamStagner so the first one I'm struggling on making rigorous, but given that each $A_n$ is countable then it's clear that you can form a sequence of sequences $a_{n_k}$ (the nth sequence) then you can form a sort of grid of the sequences iterating through each sequence's nth term similar to the rationals thing
Well, and $x^2\equiv n\mod p$ has at most two solutions in $1\leq x\leq p$, and by $(p-x)^2\equiv x^2$ it has at most one in $1\leq x\leq \frac{p-1}2$, yes?
Thus if it is solvable it has exactly one solution in $1\leq x\leq \frac{p-1}2$
yes, this looks pretty good so far
Now, how do I show each $$1^2,2^2,\dots,\left(\frac{p-1}2\right)^2$$ is incongruent?
@WilliamStagner so I would probably say... assume $A \backslash B$ is countable then it's clear that $A \backslash B \cup B$ should be countable as well (form a grid and go along diagonals... similar to the rationals proof)
but that contradicts that $A$ is uncountable so $A \backslash B$ must be uncountable as well
would that be valid?
02:46
I can use that $\Bbb Z_p$ is a field, yes? If $x^2=y^2$ then $x-y=0$ or $x+y=0$. Since $x,y\leq \frac{p-1}2$ and $x\neq y$, we must have $x=p-y$ so $y\geq \frac{p+1}2$ and it is one of the others.
@mixedmath
@PeterTamaroff yes, you could certainly use this
@mixedmath Well, I'm OK with that. Sometimes the obvious is hard to prove.
but this is more complicated than it has to be. If you know that $x^2 \equiv n \mod p$ has either 2 or zero incongruent solutions, then you're essentially there
@mixedmath Suppose it is solvable. By Lagrange, it has at most two solutions in $1\dots p$, and since $(p-x)^2=x^2$ it will certainly have the two. Thus it has one in $1\dots (p-1)/2$ and one in $(p+1)/2$; I see now, I guess.
@DanZimm Yep, that's exactly it. And you're right that the rational proof is similar to the union of countably many countable sets is countable proof.
02:54
yea seems as though that way
yay! i like when i get a proof
@WilliamStagner you said these proofs deal with cardinailty, I've never really been taught what that means, could you enlighten me?
@DanZimm If you're still interested in further cardinality arguments, the most important is probably Cantor's Theorem, i.e. $|P(A)| > |A|$ for any set $A$ where $P(A)$ is the power set of $A$.
Cardinality is just a rigorous way of studying the size of sets, particularly infinite ones.
does $\lvert \cdot \rvert$ denote the cardinality?
@DanZimm Yes,
Yes. Most people use $|\cdot|$ or $\#(\cdot)$.
ok interesting, need to look up what a power set is
02:58
The power set of $A$ is the set of all subsets of $A$.
yea, just found that
thats an interesting one
You should work on that proof before looking it up. Cantor's is really neat.
Also, it turns out that $|P(\mathbb{N}| = |\mathbb{R}|$.
$|P(\mathbb{N})|$ **
unfortunately so I have some programming stuff I have to get to tonight, so I won't be able to put too much thought into it today
03:00
Just as well. It's a pretty nuanced argument.
Good luck on your programming!
Later pal.
later @skullpatrol
so im guessing that you need to show that the image of $A$ under any function is a subset of $P(A)$ ?
@WilliamStagner ^
@WilliamStagner You can edit your messages. Like this!
@DanZimm Well, we want to show that there is no injection from $P(A)\hookrightarrow A$. Try a proof by contradiction.
@PeterTamaroff Thank you!
@DanZimm Hint: $\emptyset \in P(A)$ for any set $A$.
@WilliamStagner so thats not how i was going to go about it at first, but isnt what i said exactly that there isnt an injection from $P(A)$ to $A$?
(just making sure I have my definitions right)
on a side note TIL that any riemann integral can be expressed as $\int_{\mathbb{R}} f(x) \cdot \chi_{(a,b)}(x) \, \mathrm{d} x$ where $\chi_{(a,b)}$ is the characterisic function of $(a,b)$ in $\mathbb{R}$ so then we simply learn how to integrate over all of $\mathbb{R}$ and we can integrate any interval!
03:19
yeahhhhh taxonomist, what's up.
03:43
Or did I interrupt a conversation?
Anyone around?
in and out - you know how it is
@mixedmath Oh, yeah...I've been away a day or two, from chat, but I know how it goes! Hello!
Hi, @Jayesh ! :D
@amWhy Hello! Wassup?
@JayeshBadwaik Not too much...just "popped in" to chat a few minutes ago. How are you doing!?
@amWhy I am good. Just had breakfast. Now planning to have lunch.
03:56
@JayeshBadwaik Ahhh, I see ;-) Yes, it's about 23:00 for me, and I am first contemplating dinner :-Z
@amWhy Cool. Contemplate all three at a time. Delicious breakfast make me sleepy quickly I have seen.
@JayeshBadwaik I understand. That's my dilemma: I think best on an empty stomach...I feel sluggish after meals (especially after delicious meals), so I nibble...here and there, when I remember to! ;-)

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