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12:00 AM
But I can say something weaker: if f(x) goes to infty as x to infty, then the integral diverges. I understand that.
Oh, sorry, ignore my question. I just realized my answer =)
 
@Srivatsan I'm not even sure what your question is :-).
 
I was coming to it. =)
 
So what was it (even though you have answered it yourself)?
 
Roughly: But if f(x) is complex, what happens then?
 
If f(x) is complex and what?
 
12:08 AM
Ok, for example, if f(x) = g(x) exp(iax) where g(x) goes to infty, then can the integral converge?
Ok, here's the concrete question: Does there exist g(x) that diverges to infty, such that int_0^{\infty} g(x) exp(ix) converges?
[I made the lower limit 0 just for convenience.]
Does it make sense?
 
No.
For a Lebesgue integral to exist it has to be integrable.
And |exp(ix)| = 1 as you know.
In the Riemann case you have sin(x)/x.
 
Er, I am thinking of improper Riemann integral. I.e., int from 0 to a, lim as a to infty.
@JonasTeuwen 1/x goes to 0, not infty, no?
 
Yes but it goes to infty in 0.
It is a bit late but I don't think it is possible if it blows up at infinity as well :-).
 
@JonasTeuwen Yeah, that is what I wanted to hear =)
More like, why isn't it possible?
 
Why use improper Riemann integrals?
 
12:18 AM
What do you mean?
 
Why use improper Riemann integrals if you have Lebesgue integrals?
 
@JonasTeuwen Er, I don't have a good answer for that.
 
12:36 AM
:P.
 
12:59 AM
Good night!
 
'Night, @Jonas.
 
@JonasTeuwen Hamming's words come to mind...
 
The idea of giving titles to literary works arose with printing in the renaissance. Now it seems the incipit is making a return.
 
I'd always thought a "how to give titles to questions" is an FAQ entry that shouldn't have to be written, but...
 
QED
I tried to write out a simple as possible answer and he says it was confusing :S and also pseudo rejected it for not using the right proof method
 
1:06 AM
Do any of you know a good technique for partial fraction expansion? I'd love to know of a source that explains the reasoning behind it as the methods I've seen in Stewart's Calculus (an appendix) are very mechanical and I have trouble memorizing by rote.
 
@QED he = who?
 
I'm not sure if that's really appropriate as a question on the site
 
@Will: you've seen Heaviside cover-up?
 
QED
@William: I think there is some good theory behind it but I don't know the methods you have in mind
I don't like keep linking my answers to this chat, feels wrong
 
I can't recall the techniques I've seen before (that's the problem). I'm hoping to really grok how it works so I can derive the solution instead of memorizing
@JM What's Heaviside cover-up?
Just googled it
 
1:10 AM
@Will: you'll want to see this and these m.SE questions.
 
@JM My professor from long time back called it the "everywhere but not there" method. =)
 
does that method have any restrictions on the type of functions it works on?
 
QED
So the idea is you can rewrite 1/PQ = A/P + B/Q?
 
@WilliamGrobman Denominator should have distinct roots. That's the only one I can remember. // Also it works only if you have a bunch of linear factors. For quadratics, it does not work.
 
QED
That means you just need to solve 1 = AQ + BP
 
1:12 AM
Heaviside cover-up requires some modification if the denominator isn't squarefree. But that's discussed in the wiki article, too.
 
Thanks for the good links
 
Also one of Bill Dubuque's answers tackles the case of repeated factors.
 
I think I just need to practice it. Laplace transforms are much more appealing when one can get back
 
Heaviside remains the same if you split irreducible quadratics into complex linear factors.
 
QED
ah so it's more advanced than what I said..
 
1:14 AM
However, I don't know the modification needed so you don't have to take the complex detour...
('cause I understand "why the hell must I go through complex numbers if my results are supposed to be real?!")
 
That's what I don't like; I hate having to classify and then apply different methods depending on the case
 
@HenningMakholm Isn't that question like equivalent to Cantor intersection theorem? If the OP doesn't know it, should we have to reinvent the wheel and prove the latter theorem?
 
QED
@JM I don't :D
 
thanks again and farewell
 
1:16 AM
Bye, William.
 
QED
Actually, what more do you need than the GCD algorithm for this?
i.e. when doesn't that work
 
@QED That's fine. "More than one way to skin a cat" and all that...
 
QED
oh
well I can program the computer to solve all cases of this using GCD algorithm?
as long as I already have a routine to factor polynomials
not GCD but euclidean algorithm, the thing that solves bezout
 
@Srivatsan I'm not completely sure what the canonical statement of the intersection theorem is -- I think it might be about a strictly decreasing (by inclusion) sequence of closed intervals. That is, of course, easily equivalent to the OP's version, but the equivalence is not completely vacuous.
 
QED
ah
Here they point out an optimization you can do en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_fraction
the degree of the numerators are known in advance
 
1:21 AM
@HenningMakholm Not vacuous, but not too difficult. If we do not state the intersection theorem for general compact sets and restrict ourselves to intervals, then the OP's question is only more general. The other direction is a bit more involved, but if we define C_N to be the intersection of [a_n, b_n] for n <= N, then we can apply regular CIT and conclude the OP's statement.
 
@Henning In the last line, I meant -- of course -- regular CIT to the sequence C_N.
 
@Srivatsan That much is obvious to you and me, but perhaps not to the OP. Anyway the question is academic, as the OP disclaims knowledge of any kind of CIT. Let's see if the comment hint I've provided will clear it up.
 
I am sorry. I didn't see your comment and the answer. =)
Ok. If I wasn't clear, it seemed weird that someone is asked to prove this statement without being told about the CIT.
 
QED
@JM, So reducing the problem to a linear system gives a faster algorithm than using euclidean algorithm. very nice
 
1:35 AM
Ok, dinner time. Bye all.
 
QED
bye
 
See you.
 
2:22 AM
Do we have a good general question on what the formal rules for reasoning with equations that involve big-O and little-o estimates are?
 
2:37 AM
IIRC, no. Wanna write one?
(should make for a good entry.)
 
@HenningMakholm What kind of rules do you have in mind? Anything surprising or unusual for a beginner?
 
@Srivatsan For example x²+3 = O(n²) and 5x² = O(n²) are both true, but we can't deduce from that that x²+3=5x².
 
Right. That one is a real stumbling block for many people.
 
@JM Perhaps. I have a longish answer in mind and don't see a good place to put it.
 
Ask, and you will have the chance to answer yourself.
;)
 
2:49 AM
The SEI party line is that it is OK to ask questions that one knows an answer to, but I'm not sure how well it will sit with the MSE populance.
Of course, they can only downvote me :-)
 
One second. Let me pull up some meta thread.
@HenningMakholm Henning, If you will attract downvotes as strongly as upvotes, then yes, you do have to worry. =)
E.g., 2948: "proof wiki"
and 2244: Answering your question ahead of time.
I remember something else being even more relevant. Let me check.
 
Here's the party line I was alluding to.
 
and 2948: a site for posting proofs
 
didn't you just link that once?
 
@HenningMakholm Yes, that one keeps coming up every once in a while in meta too.
@HenningMakholm No idea what I am doing. :)
Anyway, see kjo's comment under Qiaochu's answer there.
 
3:13 AM
@HenningMakholm I'd upvote your question and answer if I could read it. :)
I've been meaning to ask and answer a question myself, once I figure out this particular paper I'm reading...
 
Okay. I'll probably get around to asking-and-answering-myself tomorrow. For now, bed beckons. Goodnight.
 
See you!
 
3:45 AM
@JM Has this tag been around or is it new?
do the honours =)
 
@Srivatsan It looks to be new...
 
How so?
 
I think it was mentioned here a few days ago when the first question with that tag appeared...
@Srivatsan two more jury members and an executioner...
 
4:09 AM
Why the new tag? In analogy to integrals?
 
Dunno. But now more than one question is tagged with it...
 
6-7 questions
Sorry, that should be
 
I don't feel too strongly about removal though.
(BTW, ought to be gone in a few days.)
 
@JM Ok. The analogy with integrals convinces me to keep it.
By the way, just to have an idea, how many questions have you reviewed till date?
Your "review stats" thing
 
What do you mean "reviewed"? For suggested edits?
 
4:14 AM
See the stats to the right.
 
Bizarre. It says I've only voted to close once. 0 for the other stats.
 
@JM =)
The thing is you should apparently click that link in the page and do whatever it is you do. Then it counts.
 
I'm quite sure I've voted to close more than once. Ah well.
 
Why don't you try something and see if the appropriate stats is incremented? [Click the link in the review page, and then do it.]
Till yesterday, I was always bothered by my clean 0 stats, but I wasn't sure what was happening. Today I have reviewed 12 posts.
 
Bleh, nothing I feel strongly about. Maybe when the next crap question shows up...
 
4:21 AM
Sure. =)
 
 
3 hours later…
7:29 AM
@Martin: When you want to add tag wiki/excerpt it is not just "for the sake of adding them", the wiki itself should contain more than a single line that you have put on the excerpt.
 
@AsafKaragila I tried to plagiarize this one: math.stackexchange.com/tags/limit/info
 
Weird :-)
 
So I guess I should give the excerpt only, if I wanted to do it the same way as limit is done, right?
 
Yeah, that would be somewhat acceptable.
 
(I am trying to learn from tag-wikis which have been created before...)
 
7:40 AM
I'll reject this excerpt too for the time being.
 
I have to go now. Long long long day.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:44 AM
@ZhenLin Is this you, or just the same name?
 
hi
 
Welcome.
Sorry, the link
 
Yes.
 
I wanted to write that you have not many edits about mathematics.
Probably I just remembered it wrong.
 
I don't use it that much.
 
8:49 AM
Well it seems nobody does.
I remember that both P.L.Clark and Henning mentioned something like: I used to be very active, but now I just make minor edits and weed out mistakes.
Or something in that spirit.
 
I've had the account for the better part of the last decade and I don't think I even have 500 edits.
... but the stats say I have 860. Huh.
 
But that was not the thing I wanted to ask orignally.
You seem to be active in tag.
When you have time, you could have a look if you can suggest some improvements.
 
Well, there's nothing significantly wrong, but I'm sure we could make it sound more exciting!
 
Ok, thanks for your help in advance.
And good luck with your talk - you mentioned you're preparing something.
 
Although, maybe it's a bit misleading to say that category theory studies structures by properties of objects and morphisms. That's like saying group theory studies group elements by their multiplication table.
@Martin: Thanks!
 
8:59 AM
Well, when a student first encounters category theory, the most important difference from what he saw before is that everything is defined using objects, morphisms, arrows, universal properties....
Element-free, if you will.
I was trying to capture this aspect.
 
It occurs to me that I don't really know how to explain what category theory is about. It's easy enough to explain what a category is and how to interpret it, and it's easy to say that category theory is the study of categories... but it doesn't really give the motivations for doing so.
 
But - as I said - feel free to rewrite it completely if you see something good.
 
 
4 hours later…
QED
12:52 PM
hi
 
hi
 
QED
what's up?
 
1:39 PM
Do you understand what is asked here? math.stackexchange.com/questions/86033
If you prefer you can look at the original revision: math.stackexchange.com/posts/86033/revisions
 
Even after your cleanup I still can't parse it...
 
Should we advise OP to try posting it in his language? chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/2525361#2525361
 
I think so.
 
It seems like he is looking for length of the arc for which one of the legs is the chord....
If the right triangle is BAC, with a=|BC| and c=|AB| and O is the midpoint of AB (the hypotenuse). he is asking about the angle BOC.
At least the would be might best guess.
I do not see how it is related to his formula at the moment.
 
QED
2:01 PM
sometimes I write something that I think is very simple and clear but they say "I don't understand it"
 
One's "clear" is another's "opaque".
 
QED
I don't understand why that is the case
 
All people think differently. There will always be someone who won't be able to see things your way.
 
Good afternoon.
 
Hey Henning.
 
QED
2:06 PM
I asked "What is confusing" and he said "Mainly how you're using this sum notation for a proof by induction. But I seem to have gotten through it without this notation. Like I had mentioned, it's for a homework assignment, so I'm still learning discrete math. I don't get much practice with it either"
I guess it's just a case of "I've already solved it, I'm not going to dedicate time to thinking more about it"
 
Ah, he has yet to experience the convenience of sigma versus the ellipsis...
 
QED
yeah I was trying to point out that the "..." he was using was causing problems but I don't think I got it across
It's just funny when something is very clear in your head, and you write all the details that need to be said out and somehow it doesn't communicate
 
When you're teaching, it'll be par for the course for some students...
 
QED
I used to think teaching would be fun but now I realize most people wont actually understand the things you say AND be too afraid to ask questions
lectures seem to be "shut up and copy down what the guy is saying hour"
 
That's why I admire people like Arturo... it takes a crapton of guts and patience to teach so well.
 
2:26 PM
@JM I've suggested the possibility of using his own language in this comment: math.stackexchange.com/questions/86033/…
I tried not to make it sound offending - but his English is really difficult to understand.
 
Sounds quite polite to me. :)
 
@QED BTW we had pretty much the same idea for that problem (also we answered in different questions): math.stackexchange.com/q/85901/8297 and math.stackexchange.com/q/82386/8297
 
QED
ahh same question twice
 
I'm voting to close one, then...
 
2:42 PM
One of them is homework assignment where he is explicitly asked to use induction. As far as I can say, this is the only difference.
I guess I was wrong - I don't know why I thought the OP asked for solution by induction.
@JM The newer question has more answers. I'm not sure which one should be closed.
Oh, I see you chose one of them already.
 
"Why did you tell on me to dad? You are a jerk." -- A 5 year old kid sitting at the next table to his mom. =)
Good morning, @Martin and @JM.
 
Mods can move answers anyway, Martin. :)
Good day, Sri.
 
Kids grow up too quickly these days, no?
 
@Srivatsan This is a coffee shop you're in, no?
 
Yes, Coffee shop. I will leave around lunch.
 
QED
2:45 PM
Bills answer got me wondering about unifying polynomials and recurrence relations
 
What do five-year-olds drink at a coffee shop...
@QED which?
 
@JM Perhaps his mom wanted to pick up some coffee. They are drinking some chocolate milk.
 
@Srivatsan I was wondering what's "A 5", kind of paper like A4!
 
@Srivatsan Are you still working on your typos removing project?
 
2:48 PM
@Gigili No, their sizes are not standardised yet. =)
 
:D
 
@QED: may I recommend Roman's The Umbral Calculus, then? :)
 
Hello all, BTW.
 
@MartinSleziak Well, now and then. when I can't control my urge. I want to, but in the interest of not flooding the main page, I don't do it.
 
2:50 PM
If there's something you people feel strongly about, I can do it.
@MartinSleziak 3 posts? That one's a breeze... =)
 
No, just noticed this typo in another post and it reminded me of your edits.
 
Sure. Thanks for it.
 
BTW you asked about derivatives tag - there's already a meta thread about it.
 
I don't feel guilty about correcting spelling errors, just names. That too, only because names are misspelled far too often.
 
QED
Wonderful! www.romanpress.com/MathArticles/Umbral1.pdf
the full thing is online
 
2:53 PM
@MartinSleziak Oh, thanks for the update, @Martin.
 
QED
1,2,3,4
 
@MartinSleziak And, one more question. Every occurrence of "etale" should be "étale", no?
Is that worth correcting, I wonder...
 
I am not even sure about the spelling, as it's not my area.
 
Oh, I thought you might know.
 
@Srivatsan Yeah, the original rendering has the accent. But I keep seeing the accent-less version.
But maybe we should wait for somebody like Zhen or Dylan.
 
2:56 PM
Are such misspellings possible to find at all? I thought that accents are ignored when searching.
 
The imprecise is always mystifying.
@MartinSleziak Oh, not sure. But the first few posts always contain an etale without the accent.
@JM My hunch is that it is as acceptable and as accepted as Holder. // Sure, it's wrong, but what if you and I are the only ones to care?
 
@QED Thanks for mentioning that! I have a (yellowed!) hard copy, but it's nice to know there's a PDF now.
@Srivatsan I know that other one is accepted, but I'm too used to the umlaut myself... :D
 
3:12 PM
Oh wait. The OP never mentioned if it is Lebesgue or Riemann integration.
Bah, I did a rep recalc and lost 30 points. :(
 
QED
he should state 'binary' right? math.stackexchange.com/questions/86066/…
 
@JM Is there any way to know why I lost so many reps on recalc?
As in, "User X got deleted so you lost so many points from her upvotes", "This post of yours was deleted", and so on.
@Ilya, in case you see this: What's the status of this question of yours? Is it unanswered or Resolved or is it not what you wanted to ask?
 
3:37 PM
@Srivatsan I don't know of any way to figure out what drained your rep. Sorry...
 
Ok, I thought so but wanted to confirm. Thanks.
Has anyone asked about this in meta?
 
A few times I think.
 
@JM I mean, specifically about any features to know the precise reasons that caused rep gain or losses in recalc?
 
Oh that. Only the unaccepts, IIRC.
For rep lost due to nuked users, no.
 
I guess that leaks anonymity.
 
3:48 PM
Likely...
 
4:01 PM
@JM I posted a question anyway =)
 
Hah, let's see how things go.
Anyway, I'm sleepy. Later, you guys.
 
hi all
 
Later, @JM.
 
@JM: Bye!
 
Hi Matt, Hi RajeshD
@Matt, How does your pup like her new home?
 
4:11 PM
@Srivatsan: She seems to like it! She's so well-behaved, it's unbelievable. She doesn't bark, doesn't pull on the lead and doesn't chase cats.
 
@Matt pull on the lead? What does that phrase mean? =)
@Matt Yes, pups these days... =)
 
@Srivatsan: I meant that she doesn't pull on the lead when I walk her. : ) What's the correct way of saying that?
 
leash? I dunno, I don't own pups. Although I fancy getting one next year.
 
Ah! American. Yes. : )
@Srivatsan What size or breed were you thinking?
 
@Srivatsan Dog or cat or something else. As long as it's not human... =)
 
4:15 PM
@Srivatsan I can relate to that feeling. : )
I'm worried that she might take away too much of my time that I might otherwise be spending on doing something "useful"...
 
@Matt Er, I am completely ignorant about dogs. Plus -- to repeat myself -- owning a pet is like revolting against my family. It's just something that took my fancy.
@Matt (Well, I was partly alluding to that actually.)
 
So your worry is not the time the pet might take but your family.
 
Well, there are these issues: (1.) Not every apartment or house allows pets. In fact, most apartments don't. I need to make sure I find one that does. And independent house=more rent, of course.
 
That makes it kind of difficult because they might "disappear" your pet...
 
(2.) I live alone. I don't know what care the dog would need. Can I leave him at my home while I am gone for work?
[I am told that there are legal restrictions on that anyway.]
 
4:21 PM
It depends. The dog shouldn't be alone for more than 4 hours...
 
Wait, you live with your parents, is it?
 
Can you take it to work?
 
@Matt Presumably. I never imagined I would think about such things -- so didn't care to find out... =)
 
@Srivatsan: So revolting against your family means that no one else has a pet, I take it? Seeing as you're living alone I would think you don't disturb anyone in your family by having one.
 
@Matt No, family is not really a concern -- that's why I didn't say (3.) family disapproves. =) They live in India, not with me.
My own family has never owned a pet. 1.5 of my extended family owned pets, although not anymore.
 
4:32 PM
Hey guys! Good evening. Noob question: how can I test the convergence of a series if there are two (-1)^n terms on it? (-1)^(n+1)/(3n + n*(-1)^n)
I wanted to the alternate series test but that will only remove one (-1)^n
*to do the
 
@Clash It's a nice question.
Alternating series test does not apply since the sequence 1/(3n + (-1)^n n) is not monotone decreasing.
 
I've tried writing the top term as (-1)^n*-1, but this didn't bring me forward
ohhh it was a trick question then
 
@Clash Well, the series can still be done, I suppose. First separate the odd and even terms.
 
wait, this just means I can't apply that test, it does not mean it diverges, right?
 
@Clash Yes, it is a sufficient test not necessary.
 
4:36 PM
wait... it actually does, doesn't it? I mean if it's not monotone decreasing then it's always growing => it diverges, ?
 
No, that ain't true.
(Not monotone decreasing) does not imply it's increasing.
 
ok, so I have to separate it into ood and even terms and then probably find out both series converge
*odd
 
Sure, that's the first step. If both the odd and even terms converge then you are golden -- the series converges. But again this is a sufficient condition, not necessary.
 
hm, I got that both series diverge. The negative one is -1/(4n) and the other one is 1/(2n)... but I can't sum -oo and +oo, right? Then I can't say anything, can I? ps: thanks already and in advance for your help!
 
Sure, you're welcome. Let's see why this is not enough to conclude divergence.
Suppose that the sequence is 1/1 - 1/1 + 1/2 - 1/2 + 1/3 - 1/3 + 1/4 - 1/4 + ... Does this sequence converge or diverge? If you separate into odd and even terms, do they converge or diverge?
 
4:41 PM
they converge to 0
 
- Which one converges to 0?
 
the sum, but the even and odd terms diverge (1/n)
sum-> converges, odd->diverge, even->diverge
 
Yes, that's right. You see now why you are not yet done with your original question after showing that the two series converge?
 
Do you mean diverge for your last word? If two series converge, the sum of em do also converge, right?
 
You're right, sorry for the typo.
 
4:49 PM
but yeah, I do see if two series diverge, the sum can converge
thanks, that is enlightening! now, I have this hunch that it probably diverges, because one diverges in one "direction" faster than the other
 
Ok, the problem with that example is that even though the two series diverged, the positive and negative terms canceled each other perfectly. As you observed, the key to prove divergence is that one of the series grows faster than the other, so that the difference is large numerically (either large and positive or large and negative).
@Clash Precisely. =)
 
I can see that many terms will be canceled, but one is always 2 times bigger than the other
 
@Clash Roughly, you will need to formalize that observation. Some error analysis / estimates, and you'll be golden.
 
because the series is like -1/4 + 1/2 -1/8 + 1/4 - 1/16 + 1/8 ... and then I can see that 1/4 and 1/8 are gone, but the positive series is always ahead
alright, can I do the radio test?
even though it alternates?
this would divide the odd terms with even terms series
and then I get >1, which shows it diverges?
 
Ratio test might fail, for the same reason it fails for the harmonic series. But you should try it. Can you get back to me after you're done with that?
 
4:54 PM
I dont think Im supposed error analysis or estimates, I havent seen this on my lecture yet
yeah ima try that now, thanks!
quick question, if n->infinity, how can I know if (-1)^n+1 is -1 or 1? I can't, right?
 
It "is" neither: it keeps on alternating. So: yes, you can't.
 

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