The Pitstop

3:15 AM

I'm buying my first socket set, and I wonder if anyone has any advice about which of these two would be a better buy:

The blue: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-black-steel-socket-set-229-pc-0580386p.html#srp
The yellow: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/stanley-black-chrome-socket-set-183-pc-0589287p.html#srp
The grey: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/maximum-master-socket-wrench-set-500-pc-0580304p.html#srp

Martin

7:35 AM

@user1271772 Neither of them. If you can afford it, get something of a good brand. I only know the Euro brands (Beta, Facom, Hazet, Gedore, Stahlwille). Then you will have something for a lifetime. Also, every time you touch them you will have the shiney-nice-thing-is-mine feeling.

For hand tools I would get something good: They hold for a lifetime

Also: Don't get the molded plastic boxes where every tool has his own place: Soon or later you want to add some specialty tool and then you don't know where to put it.

If you just want a pure socket set, without the additional tools, then you will need the molded cases. There is no point to have a heap of loose sockets in a big box. Just stay away from those: 200 tools in one box..

Nariman Asgharian

7:51 AM

I think Proxxon is also a good brand.

229 pieces of tools for only $119!!!! Extremely cheap!

Martin

@NarimanAsgharian Yes, proxxon is good.

Nariman Asgharian

8:07 AM

@Martin - These brands (Proxxon, Gedore, etc) are super expensive in my area. Only royal families can afford them!

You have to work for 6 months to afford just a ratchet of Proxxon brand!!

Martin

@NarimanAsgharian Proxxon is reasonable priced (about 60-70€ for a decent set). Hazet is really Look-I-am-rich. Beta is also expensive, but worth it.

@NarimanAsgharian The profit for your importers must be astronomic

Rory Alsop

8:54 AM

@NarimanAsgharian That may be very region-dependent. While I like some cars from each decade, Cars made in the 90's here are definitely not as good or well made as ones over the last decade. Not as good construction. Not as many features. Not as efficient engines. etc

Nariman Asgharian

3:00 PM

@RoryAlsop - 90's cars are complete packages. Performance, efficiency, reliability, quality. Compare an E36 M3 with a Turbo M3 F80 or G80. Yes, the new one is faster but not as reliable and as easy to service and maintain.

Many petrolheads agree with me about the cars made in the 80's and 90's. They were great cars that history will not see again.

@Martin - 70€ for a set?!! Set?! Here you have to pay 100€ for a single piece of Proxxon tool like a ratchet or a 3/8 extension!! You really live in heaven if you only pay 70€ for multiple pieces!!

Rory Alsop

3:22 PM

@NarimanAsgharian I'm sure they do. And many petrolheads agree with me. It's opinion at the end of the day - and I think you are focusing on BMWs, which I don't generally class in the high performance bracket. From a cost/performance benefit they don't work for me. Whereas my most recent cars have been very cheap, easy to maintain, and have really good performance

My 2nd last one would happily out accelerate high spec Porsches and Ferraris, but cost hardly anything, and was a practical, robust off roader for the family :-)

@NarimanAsgharian Like I said, this is maybe regional, but in my experience 2010 cars are so much more reliable than 1990 cars. Some exceptions, sure, but tolerances are better, construction is better and stronger, repairs are easier and cheaper. In fact the only thing that's more annoying is the computer requirement for everything now - although I don't miss tuning carbs...

Nariman Asgharian

@RoryAlsop - I'm not focusing on BMWs. That was just an example for clarification. Only tuned cars can be extremely fast and cheap at the same time. No manufacturer offers you huge performance at a low cost!

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian ... I think your opinion and experience differs markedly from mine then, so rather than get into a big argument I'll step away now.

Nariman Asgharian

You can tune a Corvette to outrun a Lamborghini Aventador for sure but that is not a stock car anymore and not as reliable as a stock Corvette.

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian I know this will be controversial to some, but I don't count American cars as performance cars. (Some exceptions)

A corvette is definitely not on my list of cheap, performance vehicles

Nariman Asgharian

Don't get me wrong. I will never argue over such things like cars! I just enjoy talking about cars with car lovers. That's all!

I have a massive collection of car magazine scans from 1932 - 2021!!

About 120 GB in my hard disc! Mostly JPEG and some PDF files!

Some road tests date back to pre WWII era!!

Rory Alsop

3:33 PM

I am happy with cars that are practical and fun. And the reliability of cars like that these days is very good here. I'm thinking Subarus, Lotuses, even Audis. I have raced so many (and yes, I do enjoy racing the BMW M4 GTP) and owned rather a lot of fun cars

Nariman Asgharian

It is quite clear that you can afford such cars! I can't afford them here, not even 2nd hand ones.

I currently drive a Peugeot 405 with an engine taken from Peugeot 406 (1.8 16V 110 hp)

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian I have only ever bought 2nd hand cars. My jobs used to give me new cars, but the tax implications here meant it cost way too much so I stopped getting company cars about 20 years ago

Nariman Asgharian

It is always a wise choice to buy 2nd hand cars even if you can afford new ones.

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian Well... my current car is sadly my grown up car. I traded in my last 405bhp people carrier for a Kia. And a Harley Davidson... The fun is in my motorbikes for now, and the car is for practical things. Children have that effect.

Nariman Asgharian

For me, real horsepower matters more than performance itself.

Rory Alsop

3:37 PM

@NarimanAsgharian Yup - the acceleration my last Subaru had was lovely. 0-60 under 4 seconds :-)

Nariman Asgharian

No, I'm not talking about times and acceleration. I'm talking about real engine power.

Imagine you have a car with 120 hp and 1200 kg. (Power to weight ratio = 10 kg/hp)

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian To me acceleration, braking and cornering ability are the important bits

Actual engine power doesn't impact real world, so bhp is most useful

for me

Nariman Asgharian

Another car has 130 hp and weighs 1100 kg (power to weight = 8.46 kg/hp)

Which one should be faster on paper? The second one

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian I have loved racing Caterhams and Atoms - crazy power to weight ratio for them

Nariman Asgharian

However, you go racing and realize that the first one is faster despite being low on power and heavier!

This is what I mean by real horsepower.

Rory Alsop

3:41 PM

Ariel Atom: 500bhp in a car that weighs 550kg, giving a power to weight ratio of over 900bhp per ton and 0-60mph in a claimed 2.3sec

Nariman Asgharian

That 120 hp is real but thay 130 hp is fake!

Rory Alsop

wheeeee

your numbers seem off. 120/1200 should be smaller than 130/1100

:-)

Nariman Asgharian

Yeah but getting to 60 mph in 2.3 requires tons of traction which is only possible with clever AWD systems + launch control and sticky tires.

@RoryAlsop - No, they are not off.

Rory Alsop

130/1100 is

Nariman Asgharian

Car A (120 hp 1200 kg) PWR = 10 kg/hp

Car B (130 hp 1100 kg) PWR = 8.46 kg/hp

On paper B should be faster than A but in the real world it is the opposite.

Rory Alsop

3:43 PM

Car B is not 8.46

it's 11.8

Nariman Asgharian

1100 / 130 = 8.46

How do you calculate?!

Rory Alsop

Ah - I'm unsure why you measure it like that, but okay

I would always divide power by weight

horsepower per ton

Nariman Asgharian

This is what I always read in car magazines

They divide weight by power

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian Maybe a cultural thing. In UK it's always bhp per ton

Nariman Asgharian

Yeah like Autocar and Motor magazines

Rory Alsop

3:45 PM

eg evo.co.uk/ariel/atom-v8/11329/….

Autocar gives bhp per ton. Power to weight, not weight to power

Nariman Asgharian

I don't live standing start acceleration. I hate quarter mile acceleration.

For me, rolling start shows the true potential of an engine.

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian it's the most useful measure of how well you can get the torque down

And in real life is useful. But I agree I also like the 30-60 time

or the 50 to 100

Nariman Asgharian

Yeah but not a good measure of how fast you car really is.

It is only good for drag strips

Rory Alsop

Rolling start is also not a measure of speed. Only of acceleration

Nariman Asgharian

A Nissan GT-R always beat a Shelby GT500 off the line but on the Autobahn GT-R is a loser!

Rory Alsop

3:48 PM

Speed is less relevant - I have owned a couple of 180-190mph cars, and the speed is not useful. But acceleration, cornering and braking are

They are where the fun is

Sitting on the autobahn at 180 is not that exciting or fun

Nariman Asgharian

Yes, high G forces

Rory Alsop

But going sideways in a Caterham at 100 really is :-)

Nariman Asgharian

But you can only drive like that on the track!

You can always enjoy your acceleration force on public roads especially in Germany with unlimited highways!!

Rory Alsop

My commute was awesome in the Subarus - high G everywhere. And it is great fun on my Harley. Getting the foot plates to touch the ground is very exciting. And doesn't need high speed.

Nariman Asgharian

@RoryAlsop - You probably drive like Steve sutcliffe :)

I'm afraid of motorbikes. Accident = death!

I prefer cars

Rory Alsop

3:50 PM

@NarimanAsgharian My style is more Jensen Button, very controlled and smooth. Steve is a bit more along the spectrum towards Hamilton. Much more aggressive

@NarimanAsgharian True, hence my avoidance of sport bikes now I'm older

@NarimanAsgharian I prefer a roll cage. Sadly I needed the Kia, and it isn't exciting in any way, so I needed a bike for the excitement.

Nariman Asgharian

Kia Ceed?

Optima?

Rory Alsop

Plus, it's got a great sound system, and is great fun even when stationery

Nariman Asgharian

Sportage?

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian Optima 3. Big, boring, but does what it does

Nariman Asgharian

Some Kia cars are not bad

I like 1.6T engine which is currently used on some Kia/Hyundai models

Rory Alsop

3:53 PM

The build quality is awesome at that price. My wife has the Kia Venga - it's not anywhere near as well put together

Nariman Asgharian

Hyundai Elantra 1.6T

Rory Alsop

I do enjoy the fact that my motorbike engine is bigger than that in all our cars :-)

Nariman Asgharian

And has a nice warranty and very cheap to maintain

Rory Alsop

it's 1.9 litres

Nariman Asgharian

1.9L bike?!!!!!!!!!!

Rory Alsop

3:53 PM

a very silly big V-twin

yup

Nariman Asgharian

My car is a 1.8!

That's just crazy!

You need a heavy radiator to cool it down!!

Rory Alsop

no radiator. It's air cooled

Nariman Asgharian

It reminds of Porsche 964 and 993 models!! Air-cooled era!!

It looks like a comfortable cruiser

Rory Alsop

Sitting in stationary traffic in summer is not good fun - as the heat just comes up the way. Luckily lane splitting is legal here

Nariman Asgharian

Rather than a super bike

Rory Alsop

3:56 PM

Is very comfortable - top speed is only 130 or 140mph, and most of the time I sit under 70

Nariman Asgharian

And the noise it makes!!!

The big one!

Rory Alsop

It will still out accelerate most cars, but that isn't what it is for

Nariman Asgharian

Its main purpose is prestigious speed!

You look relaxed while riding it!

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian yup - cruise control, heated seats, huge sound system, all the silly nonsense that makes long journeys comfortable

Nariman Asgharian

It should weigh almost a ton with all those features :)))

Rory Alsop

4:00 PM

just googled - 410.5 kg (905.0 pounds) dry weight

Nariman Asgharian

Much lighter than what I thought

What about MPG?

Rory Alsop

A lot of what you see in the pic is the luggage :-) 2 panniers and the top box

Nariman Asgharian

Yes, it is like a sedan!

Rory Alsop

It's about 40mpg, so not great for a motorbike

Nariman Asgharian

At steady speeds?

Or combined?

Rory Alsop

4:01 PM

my silly subaru ranged from 35mpg on the motorway to 8mpg on track, so this is pretty good

combined

Nariman Asgharian

What about power and torque figures?

HP @ RPM?

Torque @ RPM?

Is it an undersquare or an oversquare?

Compression ratio?

Rory Alsop

dunno - I can go and google them, but don't think I have ever bothered looking for the torque curve. Probably would have if I had got another sport bike, but it is less important for a cruiser

Maximum torque 156.00 Nm (15.9 kgf-m or 115.1 ft.lbs) @ 4000 RPM

Nariman Asgharian

4:30 PM

156 nm @ 4000?

It is a very relaxed engine for a bike

My car peaks at 4250!

155 nm @ 4250

Your bike 156 nm @ 4000

user1271772

4:45 PM

@NarimanAsgharian Why is Proxxon so expensive?

@RoryAlsop Which car was able to out-accelerate Proches and Ferraris while costing hardly anything?

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian I typically spend most of my time below 2000rpm on it :-) Very odd for a bike

Litchfield Subaru Forester STI on Fifth Gear

►

That is similar to mine, only mine was black and had more power :-)

user1271772

5:05 PM

Subaru Forester accelerates faster than Porches and Ferraris?

Nariman Asgharian

@user1271772 - Is it expensive in your country too?

@RoryAlsop - Youtube is full of tuned Foresters.

Rory Alsop

This is not a "tuned Forester"

Nariman Asgharian

@user1271772 - Not a stock one but tuned ones.

Rory Alsop

It's a Litchfield - they do rather fun things to cars

@user1271772 yup, and faster than my Impreza turbos and WRXs

really upset my boss at the time when he got a new Porsche Carrera 4S and my cheap car out accelerated his to 100 :-)

Nariman Asgharian

I would like to own a Jaguar E-Type if I ever lived in UK!

Rory Alsop

5:10 PM

@NarimanAsgharian They are fun on a track. I don't think I'd want one in real life

Nariman Asgharian

@user1271772 - Are Hans brand available in your area? It is made in Taiwan and makes strong tools.

Rory Alsop

A borrowed a Jag XKR Silverstone edition for a while. Beautiful, but handled like a dog

Nariman Asgharian

@RoryAlsop - I love owing classic cars as daily drivers.

A Mercedes W108/W109

300 SEL 6.3

1968

user1271772

@NarimanAsgharian You're in Taiwan? The main brands I was looking at so far were Mastercraft, Stanley, and MAXIMUM, largely because that's what's available at Canadian Tire.

Nariman Asgharian

Rory Alsop

5:12 PM

@NarimanAsgharian Mercedes made classics that were very driveable. But some classics are just horrible - VW Beetle, for example. Classic, but just awful to drive

Nariman Asgharian

Just look at it!! Gorgeous!

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian I have them forever associated with taxis in India

user1271772

This proxxon socket set seems to only have a 2-year guarantee and 25-year warranty for sockets and drive elements, whereas Mastercraft sets from Canadian Tire have a lifetime warranty.

Nariman Asgharian

@user1271772 - No, I'm not in Taiwan but I have used HANS tools for years and never had a problem.

@RoryAlsop - Mercedes or VW?

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian Mercedes like your pic

Nariman Asgharian

5:14 PM

I also love VW Beetle 1302 S

Rory Alsop

I like this classic Volvo: erclassics.com/volvo-p1800-1965-v3313-0

Nariman Asgharian

It gives you a mechanical feeling!

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian But they don't drive well. Admittedly I despise the new beetle

but that is because they tried to make a new classic

so it was marketing led

Nariman Asgharian

@RoryAlsop - It holds the record for the highest mileage car in the world.

user1271772

@Martin If proxxon tools are so good, then why is their warranty so bad?

Nariman Asgharian

5:17 PM

BMW Neue six

These classics are fast, comfortable and reliable!

Great engine, fantastic noise, lots of character and performance

Martin

@user1271772 The two years warranty is for professional use

Nariman Asgharian

I wish I could travel back in time and experience these cars as brand new!!

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian Style-wise, I like them, but I would not rate them for performance or reliability here. Especially not compared with more recent BMWs.

Nariman Asgharian

These engines were built to last! Believe me!

Rory Alsop

I remember driving a BMW M5 back in the 80's and while I enjoyed it, (definitely the most expensive car I had driven at the time) I wouldn't have wanted one

Nariman Asgharian

5:20 PM

E28 M5

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian but the bodywork wasn't :-)

Nariman Asgharian

It depends on humidity in your place

Martin

@RoryAlsop That's a real jewel. While I am not a petrolhead, I can appreciate the beauty of the car.

Rory Alsop

@NarimanAsgharian the UK is ... damp

Nariman Asgharian

Beauty of what car?

Rory Alsop

5:21 PM

@Martin I have never owned one, but I keep seeing them at race and track days. Beautiful lines

@NarimanAsgharian the P1800

user1271772

@Martin why not lifetime warranty?

Nariman Asgharian

It is still possible to maintain a rust-free car in UK if you follow some tips

I always wash my undercarriage once or twice per month especially in winter

With high-pressure water nozzle

Martin

@user1271772 That's their business decision. I don't know why. In the end it doesn't matter anyway as these tools are rather simply build. Assuming they are adequately designed and have decent QC, a socket-set won't wear out. It dies from abuse or gets lost.

Nariman Asgharian

Opel Vectra A

Probably called Vauxhall in your place

A great example of what I mean by 90's reliability and efficiency

If you can't afford Proxxon or Gedore, HANS offers above average quality and strength.

Martin

I own several pices from proxxon. Later I got some tools from Facom and Beta. I'd wish I bought more of them instead of Proxxon. Proxxon isn't bad. I just prefer the surface and the handling of the Beta and Facom tools.
It is difficult for me to explain that. I am one of those people that "celebrate" wrenching. I don't just try to bang something on, without regard to losses. I initiate the repair by preparing all the parts and equipment, do the job by the book, keep everything in order, clean everything up later and get upset when there is a scratch on a tool.

But that is just me. Everyone needs to find out what suits him. Some people prefer a rough tool surface as it offers a better grip when covered by oil or grime. Others prefer the polished surface.

In your case I'd go to a physical toolshop and take some pieces in your hand to see if you like the feel. Ideally you get something you like to have in your hand and you can bequeath to your grandchildren..

Martin

5:57 PM

@NarimanAsgharian The 90's Opels don't have a real good reputation: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Nariman Asgharian

6:20 PM

@Martin - Vectra A was revealed in 1988 and has proved its reliability.

It is not exactly a 90's Opel.

I love its engine (C20NE)

A bulletproof design with high efficiency and simplicity.

It is an OHC design (2.0 8V) with 115 hp

You might say it is only 115 hp but it performs like 130 - 140 hp cars!

It has great low end torque and a tall gearing which makes it possible to cruise at 160 km/h for extended period of time without any problem.

@Martin - Your approach towards getting a job done is very much similar to me. I also care about my tools and try to keep them as shiny as possible and clean them after each use.

By the way, I finished my third timing belt replacement job with success!

@user1271772 - Choosing a tool is not just about brand and quality. A proper tool is the one that suits your particular application best. The first time I wanted to loosen a crank pulley bolt, I broke my tool because I used a 3/8" extension drive for the job which couldn't handle the high torque. Later I used 1/2" and haven't had any problems. So, pay attention to the size of the tools you want to buy.

user1271772

6:37 PM

@NarimanAsgharian For sure, but when I initiated this conversation, I gave three examples of sets which have pretty much the same tool sizes and types. I think the majority of the pieces and sizes that a mechanic would need, are in all three of those kits right?

Nariman Asgharian

If it includes both high-pressure and low-pressure tools, then its ok.

Martin

8:36 PM

Congratulation!
Why did you three replacements?

Nariman Asgharian

10:01 PM

@Martin - I think you remember I asked a question here about my age (37) and what mechanics had said about me being too young for the job and you said it has nothing to do with age.

@Martin - I also told you I had done T-belt job twice with success and asked if it is worth trying to do it for the third time and you said yes.

@Martin - Now, you ask why I did three replacements and here is why.

@Martin - The first one was just practicing with the old belt. I wanted to know if I can remove and install it again without any problems. For the purpose of practice, I only worked with old parts (old belt, old water pump, old tensioner and bearing) because I wanted to make sure I don't damage anything during the process.

@Martin - The 2nd replacement was the real one! I replaced worn parts, then cleaned the whole system and installed the new belt, adjusted its tension, checked alignment of timing marks and started the engine. I drove the car for 100 miles and then I noticed an abnormal noise which was being heard near timing belt cover. It made noise only when the engine would get hot.

@Martin - To pinpoint the source of the noise, I used a piece of rubber hose (like a stethoscope) and finally found that it is loudest when I put the hose near idler bearing. In fact, I had replaced everything except this bearing because it had been on service for only 18.000 kms and since it was a genuine INA product, I thought it would last well over 100.000 kms but I was wrong.

@Martin - So, I had to remove the belt and replace the bearing with a new one and this is why I did it three times.

The only strange thing was the fact that I had turned the old bearing with my hand and it didn't made noise and didn't turn freely so I had thought it is fine. I learned a lesson: Replace all bearings during T-belt job even if they seem to be fine because they may not reveal themselves when they are cold. Grease inside bearings can behave differently at different temperatures.

I had done the job perfectly fine and the engine was as powerful as before. If that bearing hadn't failed, I had finished the job after my practice.

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