The Periodic Table - 2018-03-24

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12:04 AM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ How do PhD's chat?

@orthocresol but what else would you suggest if a - 5 score question comes up in the close vote queue? What else should we do with it?

12:24 AM

Nuke it with great prejudice

or just leave it be; a dead but open question at -5 is no different from a dead and closed question at -5

I lean towards nuking it, though.

Obviously, once it got flagged, it appears in the CV queue and people like you will have to deal with it. One possible way of dealing with it is voting to close, so you're not doing anything wrong, as long as you genuinely believe the HW close reason fits it. The issue is more with the person who flagged it. I still personally disagree with it being homework, and hence I would vote to leave open, but that's a separate discussion and not one I particularly want to have...

1 hour later…

1:31 AM

@orthocresol i don't have the nuke powers :(

JavaScriptCoder

@orthocresol (lord killer seal): It's been $\pi$ days since the last synthesis golf challenge. I am not the best at this, but I suggest a synthesis-golf with Pargeverine. Plenty of pi electrons to amuse them

@orthocresol yep, i too don't feel that the HW close reason fits every one of them

@JavaScriptCoder correction: upside-down lord killer seal

JavaScriptCoder

ok @GaurangTandon

@MichaelHarding halo-acids like HX, diluted acidic water, alcohols add by carbocation intermediate; halohydrins, halogens, etc. add by the bridged ion

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ nope, someone's "flagging" them instead; i checked the "history" tab as you said the other said and there wasn't any +3k user before me

2:05 AM

@GaurangTandon do closed voted questions get deleted from site?

@JavaScriptCoder lol $\pi$ days XD.

I did not get the $\pi$ days joke

Pls halp

2:22 AM

@Abcd yes check [help/roomba]

2:44 AM

@GaurangTandon what does roomba mean???

3:09 AM

@Abcd Roomba as in the Roomba cleaning bot

@orthocresol also, more poor old questions are showing up in the close queue now (21 of them currently); this trend of flagging old questions doesn't seem to be stopping; please do something about this

7 hours later…

10:47 AM

@GaurangTandon What's the problem in VTCing them? It would help you delete them wouldnt it?

11:15 AM

> From what I have read, electrons are indivisible and have a mass of 1 unit, a photon (light) has a mass of 0 and protons are 1 like electrons. Atomic numbers in chemistry are in fact the sum of electrons and protons which are balanced except in ions.

How did this get four upvotes?

Sigh, I really hate HNQ's.

11:43 AM

@Loong do use stylebot. It's almost been six months since I last saw an HNQ list on the right side of any SE page. Have hidden it permanently. It's distracting, and weird questions like these show up all the time, as you yourself noticed.

Anonymous

@GaurangTandon Yeah, sorry those questions are different. Misread. Writing here because I dont have reputation to comment yet.

@Abcd and how can I delete another person's posts? The problem with these flags on old posts is that (a) it wastes daily flags in dealing with old posts instead of the new ones (b) it requires five people to waste their time on these old questions which can otherwise be easily hammer deleted in one instant

@GaurangTandon If I don't see the HNQ list anymore, that would not solve the actual problem.

There's no point in bringing them up again. They are old sad dead threads, just let them be given the final goodbye by a mod.

@DivyankaS.Chaudhari no worries, happens frequently. Just retract your flag. Good to go

Anonymous

Okay, let me figure out how to do that. Then will do.

11:48 AM

@Loong oh, ok, the actual problem is that bad questions come up in the HNQ list. Well, we can't do anything about it :(

12:03 PM

The HNQ list questions are not always bad. But often they attract bad answers and terrible comments from people who are not regular users of the site since HNQ's are advertised everywhere.

And HNQ's generate unfair amounts of upvotes for stupid things. :-(

hashtag bring back world-building hnqs

the best SE

Ah yeah, that's right. I've been guilty of doing that crosssite-hnq-upvoting myself when I was new here.

Just look at this shit:

111

Q: Are 19.6 pounds of CO2 produced from burning a gallon of gasoline?

According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, About 19.6 pounds [8.89 kg] of CO2 are produced from burning a gallon of gasoline that does not contain fuel ethanol. About 12.7 pounds [5.76 kg] of CO2 are produced when a gallon [3.8 litre] of pure ethanol is combusted. I am not a ...

chemistry climate-change

+111 for a trivial homework question

they're being skeptic about the homework, not asking the homework themselves

that counts for more IQ points

Lol what did I just see

12:07 PM

@Loong Whats an HNQ?

Hot network question

HNQ should wait for atleast two days and let a question remain on the site, before showcasing it to the world, so it can be appropriately upvoted/downvoted/closed/etc. by the regulars

2 hours later…

1:58 PM

@orthocresol this is getting really annoying. You should stop the close flagger. Plus, it stops newer questions getting quick enough attention from the CV queue

FFS

I just reviewed the most "leavable open" questions of my life

WHY THE FROG CANT YOU SEE THE FRIGGING EFFORT YOU BLIND FLAGGER

@AvnishKabaj no real humor content, lack of certain informal usage, sound like they've sold their soul to PhD Gods, take questions seriously, often have a problem with sarcasm, use lame sarcasm and apologize 43 times afterwards, and don't believe real sounding names get you more upvotes

2

@BalarkaSen get out

@Loong 111 is the perfect number, yeah

hmpf

110 is much better, as in being worse

So @Loong, it really seems what the official guidelines say is not to use an apostrophe with acronyms

Unless you use dotted acronyms

Like the weirdo in ELU's chat

E.L.U.'s

@GaurangTandon there's no guilt in upvoting HNQ

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ so? hm

The guidelines can go to hell though

Who is a respected linguist to tell me how to use language?

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ And also what is the point in flagging old questions that have answers as "unclear what you're asking"?

2:11 PM

@Loong I know, right? This guy doesn't know what they're doing, and for God's sake, I only got to review just a couple of freshly made questions

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I have got my Finnish language course books this week. It looks like a strange code – or is it just a practical joke of linguists?

It could be they're someone who got their question closed and they're trying to make a point about the CV queue bandwagon

@Loong Finnish sounds like fish speak

Which I 20 percent agree with, we unfortunately do have some objectively massive reviewers who objectively robo review

@Loong I dig your endash

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ if they had to make a point, they would be flagging the positive scoring questions instead. Still, whoever it is, is probably deliberately annoying CV reviewers,

For what reason though?

For annoying CV reviewers

@GaurangTandon actually, a closer voter can still flag a question for closure, I think

Maybe

There was maybe a mechanism that converted it to a CV

@Abcd the problem is more that it is a bit of a waste of other people's time. If the question has an answer with non-negative score, it will not be automatically deleted, even if it is closed.

If the question and answers are truly unhelpful, then post it in Spring Cleaning and we may consider manually deleting it. If you think they could be helpful to somebody else in the future, then just leave it. Let sleeping dogs lie, as they say.

2:19 PM

Yeah, old question corpse.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ huh, that's interesting

Won't get deleted, won't get answers, pointless closure

Yup, that sums it up.

That's the best summary

I am a good summarier

2:20 PM

That's not even a word?

Totally a word

Of course you invented it now

I am a good inventor

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ My thoughts exactly. How did I end up in this nerd room?

I should go to the worldbuilding chat instead

looks around for the worldbuilding chat

-5

Q: What are the benefits of hydrogen Rich water?

I have seen a site called h2 miracle water and they sell Hydrogen Rich Water. Could someone tell me the key benefits of Lourdes hydrogen rich water generator?

molecules hydrogen

@Ortho this is definitely spam

Let's stop it from getting any more views

2:27 PM

I think it's debatable as to whether it's spam.. I investigated a bit with the mod tools and I have suspicions that there are undisclosed affiliations, but nothing conclusive. Anyway, since we already have a (proper) question on hydrogen rich water, I deleted it.

@orthocresol standard spam template

I'll take your word for that

User with no other contribution, and western sounding username

Did you have anything similar for that particular product on charcoal?

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ will help in future when I fail my exams and become a con artist

Pritt Balagopal

2:39 PM

Hi

@orthocresol Did you star in this epic video: youtube.com/watch?v=Kg-HHXuOBlw ?

That's kinda weird ._.

No... I stay near the North Pole.

The noisy Harp seal pup

Pritt Balagopal

Ahh I see you dont like to bounce alot :P

Wow, looks like posts from last year were recently flagged to close. I'm getting them in my reviews now.

No, I am not a bouncer.

He's a chemist.

Gettit

I'm so funny

Pritt Balagopal

Ok

2:48 PM

@JavaScriptCoder thanks for the suggestion. There is a meta post for synthesis golf target suggestions, actually: chemistry.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/3979/… You may wish to post this there.

I have been rather busy (read: too lazy) over the last 2-3 months, so it's partly my fault that nothing has happened. However, I'll try to find an interesting molecule.

If we look at some of the precedents, and the original target audience for this series, I think pargeverine is a little bit on the easy side. I think you can make it in 3-4 steps from readily available starting materials.

However, it may be worth considering whether the target audience should still be the same...

3:00 PM

actually, 2 steps: benzilic acid + 2-chloro-N,N-dimethylethylamine, then propargyl bromide. I forgot you can buy benzilic acid.

0

Q: Carbonyl reduction in an oxoacetamide compound

One has 2-(1H-indol-3-yl)-N,N-dimethyl-2-oxoacetamide in crystalline form. How could one remove the two oxygen atoms (located on the oxoacetamide branch)? Would using a strong reducing agent (like lithium aluminium hydride) be enough? If so, what would the process be like? (temperature, pro...

organic-chemistry carbonyl-compounds

I am not sure what the reason is for the disclaimer at the end of this question

What's the matter here?

in JEE/High School Chemistry Problems, 50 secs ago, by Abcd

Why is Bent's rule failing in case of $\ce{XeF_6}$ ?

@orthocresol Any idea? I saw your famous question on $\ce{XeF4}$

How are you applying Bent's rule to XeF6?

N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT or N,N-DMT) is a tryptamine molecule which occurs in many plants and animals. It can be consumed as a powerful psychedelic drug and has historically been prepared by various cultures for ritual but not healing purposes. Rick Strassman labeled it "the spirit molecule". In most countries, DMT is illegal. DMT has a relatively short duration of action, intense effects and rapid onset. For that reason, DMT was known as the "businessman's trip" during the 1960s in the United States, as a user could access the full depth of a psychedelic experience in considerably less time...

The orbital having occupying more space around the central atom has more s character. @orthocresol

This is "alternative statement of Bent's rule"

Given in My book.

Indian Adaptation of JD Lee

I would have minimized lone pair repulsions

3:11 PM

Uhhuh, and how are you applying it to this context?

(I will say that - as written - I don't understand what that sentence is trying to say)

Axial orbital has more neighbours

So it should have more s character

As per my book

So lone pair should be in axial position

But thats not the case

You're talking about a pentagonal bipyramidal geometry?

Yes

Well - firstly the bond to the axial position should be using purely p orbitals

think back to say PCl5, the axial Cl-P-Cl bonding uses p orbitals only

equatorial uses sp2

@orthocresol thats the case for Trigonal Bipyramida

4 mins ago, by Abcd

The orbital having occupying more space around the central atom has more s character. @orthocresol

In TBP, equatorial has more neighbours

3:15 PM

Well, I don't know. I've never heard this alternative formulation before.

In any case, I think XeF6 is a bit too complicated - no model really captures the behaviour of that lone pair very well

As far as I know, at least.

@orthocresol uh oh, that's weird. I'm guessing we don't yet have a policy on whether questions about illegal chemicals are on topic, do we?

There should be something on meta, but as usual there's no conclusion. In general we deal with these on a case by case basis.

:43596340 exactly what I was going say, you never know what's behind that "this question is for research purpose only", can be good or can be bad

I'm sure this isn't the first instance of an illegal chemical in this six year old chemistry site, or is it?

No it's not

There is a meta post about it

Looking it up on PC (mobile phones are really inconvenient for multitasking)

3:24 PM

I'm looking it up on mobile

Mobile keyboards are even more inconvenient

I'm always looking for Home, End,Ctrl+End. Duh

@GaurangTandon I would beg to differ

6

Q: Scope of unsuitable questions to include security and hazardous flags

I would like to propose that the scope of questions that are unsuitable for this site be expanded to include those where it is apparent that the user: is clearly unsuitably qualified to attempt a practical procedure that they are seeking information about, and advice given on this website could...

discussion allowed-questions safety

Mobiles bring bring speed

@AvnishKabaj is bring bring like a super bring?

@Gau ^^

Although I'm pretty sure there was at least one newer question

3:28 PM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ what would I do without you

No one else understand my genius

12

Q: FAQ update: How to ask (or close) questions that involve potentially controlled or dangerous substances?

Recently there was a flag on a question about the synthesis of an amphetamine. Last year there was a similar question about this topic: Scope of unsuitable questions to include security and hazardous flags In the comments we more or less concluded to treat these questions on a case by case basis...

discussion allowed-questions

I don't think it's genius

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ start using a PC ^^^

More like a . . . Um.

:'(

You're very mean

3:33 PM

"TL;DR - We should add to our "off-topic" list in a way that does not ban questions about chemical principles"

3:47 PM

@Mithoron I don't have the time to rewrite the entire text right now. I'm deleting the answer will undelete if I get the time to rewrite.

3:58 PM

@AvnishKabaj what was the problem in that answer of yours?

@orthocresol to be honest, i don't really feel comfortable with that meta post's tl;dr; it suggests (at least to me, correct me if I am wrong) that a question about how to perform the synthesis of any type of chemical (both harmless and harmful) is on-topic on this site; but that meta answer got +10/-0, so I am definitely missing something. What am I missing?

@GaurangTandon copyright issues

@AvnishKabaj you've quoted peter sykes more than once on this site

@GaurangTandon Dose makes poison, nitroglycerin can save you life or tear you apart

@Mithoron oh that's interesting, yes, that seems to be what I was missing

@GaurangTandon ok will delete those too

4:11 PM

@AvnishKabaj you've also quoted other books...i don't see a copyright problem here though?

@AvnishKabaj Don't delete, just rewrite when you can

And only really important parts to save time

It's not like Sykes will sue SE ;)

@orthocresol Whaddya think ^^

@Mithoron The thing is I know I won't rewrite

It's better to delete

@Mithoron as long as the blockquote and attribution is there, i don't see any copyright infringement here. What am i missing?

i myself quote questions from my textbook all the time when I post questions to SE. Am I violating copyright?

sigh other people can do this too, and you need to get used to improving your answers not delete in any sign of trouble

@GaurangTandon It was photo of page

@Mithoron ...so OCRing that page is perfectly OK?

4:20 PM

Well, dunno how much of text starts to make a problem

Citations shouldn't be too long but I'm no lawyer

i think OCRed text should be completely acceptable, however, big it is, as long as complete attribution is provided, along with those blockquotes;
that said though, while referencing other books' content in building up a proper answer is important, I personally have never had a need to OCR more than 3-4 lines of any book; i'd prefer to explain in my own words instead

i'll agree that posting camscanned photos of a copyrighted book is not the best thing to do

Generally it's best to use own words. answer doesn't need to be very long, better concise IMO

yep

Volume of cited text has some limits - you can write a book where half of it is citations of another

But it would violate some citation law

I think that if text is so long you need OCR, then it's too long ;)

ofc then it is :)

4:57 PM

@Mithoron idk. There are laws for photocopying books, but I have no idea about uploading pages of books.

Our general stance seems to be, as long as you cite the source it's probably ok, but we generally don't like this kind of answer...

Being concise is a good way of putting it. If the answer needs to copy one whole page of a book then it's probably not a great answer.

So similar feelings :)

yup :)

@orthocresol i'm sure no one follows any laws for photocopying books, unless the photocopying machine is right in front of a Court of Justice (which it generally isn't)

@pentavalentcarbon hullo penta! you've been away for 2-3 days without a leave application. that's a penalty of 100 dollars

are you paying by cheque or cash?

pentavalentcarbon

I can give you my PhD diploma, is that good enough?

nah, i can't make any use of it

you've completed your PhD now?

pentavalentcarbon

5:11 PM

for all intents and purposes

oh, so you're no longer a "PhD student", i think it's time to update your profile then

pentavalentcarbon

I know, working on it...

oh and congrats for a successful completion!

pentavalentcarbon

thanks...done

good good

pentavalentcarbon

5:17 PM

oh my dear, the review queue is big

it's been like this since yesterday, ortho knows of it, he hasn't resolved it though, enjoying snow on north pole as usual

pentavalentcarbon

> protons are 1 like electrons

oh dear

> loose election

double whammy

> View the picture for the question

no ಠ_ಠ

5:53 PM

@AvnishKabaj no, I'm above average

@pentavalentcarbon that answer? Bloody hell, a joke would be less drastic

pentavalentcarbon

it's bad

Is it bad form to laugh out loud at a question?

6:09 PM

congratulations Dr pentavalentcarbon

pentavalentcarbon

don't ever call me that again

You know I can change your username

@GaurangTandon how do you know I haven't resolved it... The person seems to have stopped flagging old questions. If stuff is still in the queue then it's from yesterday or earlier or somebody else is flagging stuff.

user image

what on earth...

pentavalentcarbon

pew pew pew

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Then why didn't you downvote? ;-)

pentavalentcarbon

hah!

6:23 PM

When you have a canister containing only atoms of hydrogen, why woldn't you consider it a pure hydrogen gas? @Loong — user9303970 5 mins ago

Why did I even try?

3 hours later…

8:54 PM

@Loong my downvotes are reserved for stuff that's unclear to be bad or wrong

@Loong goddamnit let's just assume

Science gets in the way of imagination.

-- Winston Churchill

9:09 PM

Let's just assume that he said that.

1 hour later…

10:27 PM

@Loong -- Christopher Columbus

Shashikanth Dhanekula

1

heat physical-chemistry thermodynamics

I think Dracula asked a question here

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The Periodic Table

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